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Football Thread 2013/14 |ot21| Get a refund.

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sohois

Member
tracab_data.jpg


was trawling through some statistical analysis as usual and thought some would appreciate this basic look at running stats.

The table was designed to highlight Lallana primarily, and it's certainly interesting from a Liverpool perspective how similar he is to Henderson, both here and in other stats and general style. Lot of comments about how the loss of Henderson for those 3 games had a big effect on Liverpool's performances so Lallana would seem a good signing from that perspective.

But what really stood out to me was Yaya Toure. People have commented before how he can often come across as lazy in games and these stats back that up. His number of sprints is lower even than central defenders who you expect would only sprint in defensive situations, and not in both attack and defence as other positions would. On the other hand, he still manages to appear in the top 20 for distance covered; which would definitely suggest someone putting in great effort to get around. I suggest a big part of this is simply down to the physicality of Toure, he is a player who is going to among the fittest in the league, as well as one of the fastest runners (note I use runners to differentiate from sprinting). His avg speed seems low, but when we take into account how his low number of sprints dragging that down it's likely that his running speed is amongst the highest in the league.

Thus we can have a picture of Toure as someone for whom the time and speed spent simply running is great, but when it comes down to the key movements, the sprints he seems quite lazy indeed.
 
Reading these articles on the Guardian gives me confidence England will do more than flounder at the World Cup. Some of the stuff they're doing to train for the climate is insane.
No special training is enough to overcome the fact that England are the third best team in that group.
 

GQman2121

Banned
I don't give fuck what the numbers say. Yaya Toure is terrifying on the ball. I don't give a shit where he fucks off to if that's what he wants. Get him out of the country. We'll all be better off next year.
 
Reading these articles on the Guardian gives me confidence England will do more than flounder at the World Cup. Some of the stuff they're doing to train for the climate is insane.

England always enters the World Cup under a lot of hype.

Rooney will be sluggish, and we would be lucky to get into the semi-finals.

I HATED the 2006 England squad though. Peter Crouch always looking to score an amazing goal when a simple tap in would do was a big reason why we didn't really make an impact that year :(
 
tracab_data.jpg


was trawling through some statistical analysis as usual and thought some would appreciate this basic look at running stats.

The table was designed to highlight Lallana primarily, and it's certainly interesting from a Liverpool perspective how similar he is to Henderson, both here and in other stats and general style. Lot of comments about how the loss of Henderson for those 3 games had a big effect on Liverpool's performances so Lallana would seem a good signing from that perspective.

But what really stood out to me was Yaya Toure. People have commented before how he can often come across as lazy in games and these stats back that up. His number of sprints is lower even than central defenders who you expect would only sprint in defensive situations, and not in both attack and defence as other positions would. On the other hand, he still manages to appear in the top 20 for distance covered; which would definitely suggest someone putting in great effort to get around. I suggest a big part of this is simply down to the physicality of Toure, he is a player who is going to among the fittest in the league, as well as one of the fastest runners (note I use runners to differentiate from sprinting). His avg speed seems low, but when we take into account how his low number of sprints dragging that down it's likely that his running speed is amongst the highest in the league.

Thus we can have a picture of Toure as someone for whom the time and speed spent simply running is great, but when it comes down to the key movements, the sprints he seems quite lazy indeed.

It's mainly down to perception. Everyone expects a big guy like Toure to physically dominate at every opportunity.

And I don't think this fixation with sprinting about all the time necessarily makes for better central midfielders as much as it does banal talking points from parochial Sky Sports pundits. The best ones I've seen put more faith in anticipation, positioning and awareness. Toure is going to have a long career because of that, and his ability on the ball, not sprinting at every turn.

I honestly worry about the long-term injury prospects of young British players like Phil Jones who buy into the headless chicken phenomena.
 

wedward

Member
tracab_data.jpg


was trawling through some statistical analysis as usual and thought some would appreciate this basic look at running stats.

The table was designed to highlight Lallana primarily, and it's certainly interesting from a Liverpool perspective how similar he is to Henderson, both here and in other stats and general style. Lot of comments about how the loss of Henderson for those 3 games had a big effect on Liverpool's performances so Lallana would seem a good signing from that perspective.

But what really stood out to me was Yaya Toure. People have commented before how he can often come across as lazy in games and these stats back that up. His number of sprints is lower even than central defenders who you expect would only sprint in defensive situations, and not in both attack and defence as other positions would. On the other hand, he still manages to appear in the top 20 for distance covered; which would definitely suggest someone putting in great effort to get around. I suggest a big part of this is simply down to the physicality of Toure, he is a player who is going to among the fittest in the league, as well as one of the fastest runners (note I use runners to differentiate from sprinting). His avg speed seems low, but when we take into account how his low number of sprints dragging that down it's likely that his running speed is amongst the highest in the league.

Thus we can have a picture of Toure as someone for whom the time and speed spent simply running is great, but when it comes down to the key movements, the sprints he seems quite lazy indeed.

Where are these from?
 

bjaelke

Member
Martin Charquero @MartinCharquero
ATENCIÓN. Luis Suárez será operado en la mañana de meniscos. Aparentemente llegaría a jugar el Mundial. No se puede creer. #VAMOSLUIS

Suarez having (minor) knee surgery ahead of the World Cup. I seem to recall a similar story 4 years ago with another of our strikers :s
 

Zabojnik

Member
Wait, a ref bought AS Bari?

I thought clubs buy refs in Italy? Or has this trend moved over to Bavaria?

An ex-ref, Paparesta. You might remember him for being the ref Moggi locked in a dressing room after a match. Only he didn't, but nobody cares, because Juve. Anyways, good for him, he's been working on 'saving' Bari for quite some time now, glad he and his partners managed to do just that. Looking forward to seeing them play in Serie A again.

No special training is enough to overcome the fact that England are the third best team in that group.

England are going to destroy Italy in the first game. Well, maybe not destroy destroy, but a comfortable win is almost certain at this point.
 

nampad

Member
:lol

I still don't get why he renewed contract, he sounds a bit dumb

That's the thing. He just recently signed a new 4 year contract without a relegation clause and told everyone just weeks ago how mich he enjoys playing for us and he wants to stay.

Suddenly, right before the important relegation games there is talk about him leaving, also from his agent.

Apparently, he thinks it wasn't nice that Jarchow betted against journalists that he will even stay if we get relegated. I hate Jarchow like everyone else but he does have a contract, so it's not like that wasn't something the club would expect.

And while he is right about giving van der Vaart shit for the Valencia thing, you can't justify your own wrongdoings with that of others.

He is a good player who has much potential and surely can play for a better club but how he is trying to force it now after everything he did and said before is just ridiculous.

Leverkusen should know that if he plays well the same thing will happen to them 1-2 years from now.

After Son and Öztunali he is the next talent leaving for the Pillendrehers. Won't count Sam because there was a lot of other trouble.

Hope another bigger team tries to come and swoop in like with Sokratis so Tante Kaethe can cry his bitter tears again.

Leverkusen won't pay enough for me to be happy about the transfer. While we could need the money, HSV+ is also around the corner and will help with the financials. Can't imagine Calhanoglu having such a high wage that we can't just let him sit around if he doesn't play well anymore and if he does we can still sell him 2 years from now for a hefty price.
 

raven777

Member
haven't been following new for few days, and now I read about Kroos coming to United?

Is this one of those bullshits like Fabregas and Thiago last season or is the deal really happening?
 

sohois

Member
It's mainly down to perception. Everyone expects a big guy like Toure to physically dominate at every opportunity.

And I don't think this fixation with sprinting about all the time necessarily makes for better central midfielders as much as it does banal talking points from parochial Sky Sports pundits. The best ones I've seen put more faith in anticipation, positioning and awareness. Toure is going to have a long career because of that, and his ability on the ball, not sprinting at every turn.

I honestly worry about the long-term injury prospects of young British players like Phil Jones who buy into the headless chicken phenomena.

There is certainly an argument to be made that absolute sprint numbers aren't useful, that players with lower numbers may simply be better at timing and anticipation, as you say. However, I feel this argument falls down when we look at some of other names on the list - Hazard and Lallana 2 good options. Both have far more sprints than Toure, but neither would be classified as a headless chicken. How is it that they are able to sprint so much more than Toure? Is it that Toure is able to run where others must sprint, or that Toure simply does not put in the same effort as these 2 players?

Where are these from?

I got the table from an article about Lallana on the BassTunedtoRed website, though I imagine the data itself is from Opta.
 

Yen

Member
Surprised about Suarez. I thought he was totally indestructible. He had never been injured for Liverpool, and it feels as though he has only be subbed < 5 times.
 

bjaelke

Member
Surprised about Suarez. I thought he was totally indestructible. He had never been injured for Liverpool, and it feels as though he has only be subbed < 5 times.

Probably played with injury in the last 4 matches. At least that would explain the drop.
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
..why?! :lol :lol we have WAY too many midfielders

-

If any of you guys missed it before, Drogba is 80% going to Juve, so go ahead and bet on it :p the guy who broke the news is the same guy who wrote his autobiography, one of his close friends. Good vice-Llorente or third choice for a season.


AND THE FIRST GAY MARRIAGE IN FOOTBALL! ITALY LEADING BY EXAMPLE!

Riccardo Montolivo and Ciro Immobile take advantage of a break in World Cup preparations to get married.

"Montolivo will wed Cristina De Pin in Varese with the reception on Lago Maggiore. Immobile is set to marry Jessica Melena in Chieti"

haha I genuinely thought it was true first
 

Manager

Member
Yaya Toure wants Manchester City 'job for life' - agent

Manchester City's Yaya Toure wants assurances that he will have a "job for life" at the cub, his agent has said.
The 31-year-old midfielder was said to be "very upset" by a perceived lack of respect shown to him by City's owners, causing speculation that he may leave.

But Dimitri Seluk says Toure wants the "same club for as long as possible", citing legend Zinedine Zidane's role as an advisor and coach at Real Madrid.
"It gives a message - 'we like you and you're with us forever'," he said.

On Tuesday Seluk said Toure could leave City because the club's owners showed him a lack of respect on his 31st birthday, ignoring him when the squad arrived in the United Arab Emirates last week to celebrate their Premier League title triumph.
City, who presented Toure with a cake and tweeted their congratulations, are believed to have no intention of selling the midfielder who has three years left on a contract extension signed in April 2013.

Seluk denied that Toure's apparent disappointment with the City hierarchy was a tactic aimed at increasing his earnings after a season in which he scored 24 goals in 49 games.
"People think we did this because we want to change the contract, to make more money," Seluk told BBC Sport.
"About money, the contract is OK. For us the most important is attention from the club to whom Yaya gives a lot."

France international Zidane, who played for Real Madrid for five seasons and scored the winning goal in their Champions League final win over Bayer Leverkusen in 2002, has stayed on at the club after retiring, firstly in a role as advisor to president Florentino Perez and then as assistant to current manager Carlo Ancelotti.
Toure, who joined City from Barcelona in 2010, was linked with a return to the Catalan giants when Seluk made his initial comments on Tuesday.

Toure has said he could be playing for another club next season and added he would resolve his future after the World Cup in Brazil.
Ivory Coast are in Group C alongside Colombia, Greece and Japan.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27513544

WHAT
ieIw6niHNfVIo.png
 

Clegg

Member
For anyone interested, my aunt had a single bypass last Monday and has been in recovery since then. Haven't had the chance to see her because only immediate family is being let in right now, but she seems to be doing OK.
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
For anyone interested, my aunt had a single bypass last Monday and has been in recovery since then. Haven't had the chance to see her because only immediate family is being let in right now, but she seems to be doing OK.

hopefully a Yaya Toure kind of 'OK'? ;)
 

Clegg

Member
hopefully a Yaya Toure kind of 'OK'? ;)
I'll let you know of she asks to be put on the hospital staff. They're bring a physio to see her to gauge her recovery. So fingers crossed it went well and improves her quality of life in the long run.
 

Zabojnik

Member
8 out of 10 woodens! nice graphics and fine gameplay. but the story lacked soul.

Yeah, that was my main complaint with I1 and I2. The new main guy seems far more interesting than Cole ever was, too bad the story is apparently lacking yet again. :/ Still, when it hits 20 EUR used, I'm definitely getting it. :p
 

Manager

Member
Can't the agent just confess what they actually want.
nt5j5sS.png
Yaya can't be club advisor, cake expenses would break FFP. At least the agent clarified this part:
Seluk later clarified his remarks, saying that Toure was disappointed nobody from a senior position at the club wished him happy birthday.

And on Thursday he added: "Of course some players congratulated him (on his birthday) but not the sporting director, not the general director, not the chairman, nobody.

"(The manager?) No, nobody.

"This is the question. If you don't even congratulate the player or send flowers to his wife or mother - these are just small things."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...-city-if-club-offer-role-after-playing-career

Bonus:
Ben Wyatt &#8207;@BenWyattCNN 18h
Asked @EdDzeko if he wished Yaya Toure 'happy birthday' last week: "No, why do you ask?" He replied with a smile @cnnfc

Isn't Zidane off to manage Bordeaux?

Zidane was taking a break for three years after retiring anyway, before becoming advisor, makes so little sense.

tracab_data.jpg


was trawling through some statistical analysis as usual and thought some would appreciate this basic look at running stats.

The table was designed to highlight Lallana primarily, and it's certainly interesting from a Liverpool perspective how similar he is to Henderson, both here and in other stats and general style. Lot of comments about how the loss of Henderson for those 3 games had a big effect on Liverpool's performances so Lallana would seem a good signing from that perspective.

But what really stood out to me was Yaya Toure. People have commented before how he can often come across as lazy in games and these stats back that up. His number of sprints is lower even than central defenders who you expect would only sprint in defensive situations, and not in both attack and defence as other positions would. On the other hand, he still manages to appear in the top 20 for distance covered; which would definitely suggest someone putting in great effort to get around. I suggest a big part of this is simply down to the physicality of Toure, he is a player who is going to among the fittest in the league, as well as one of the fastest runners (note I use runners to differentiate from sprinting). His avg speed seems low, but when we take into account how his low number of sprints dragging that down it's likely that his running speed is amongst the highest in the league.

Thus we can have a picture of Toure as someone for whom the time and speed spent simply running is great, but when it comes down to the key movements, the sprints he seems quite lazy indeed.

I think he made more sprints 12/13 season (guess), because he was always completely fucked at the end of matches, almost crawling around. Even so, Fernandinho has saved his ass too many times this season, been City's silent warrior. That particular point is my major gripe with Yaya, that he always needs someone to save his ass defensively.

In games like against Bayern, where City can't keep possession, he was almost useless IIRC. Similar against Barcelona. Mostly jogged around, trying to press without getting near.

How come Hazard's avg speed is so low? Walking much?
 

Kurtofan

Member
Was this shit show mentioned?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/22/fifa-film-tim-roth-sepp-blatter

Starring Tim Roth &#8211; the actor famous for playing the duplicitous Mr Orange in Reservoir Dogs &#8211; as Fifa&#8217;s current president Sepp Blatter, Gérard Depardieu as the World Cup creator Jules Rimet, and the New Zealand actor Sam Neill as Blatter&#8217;s predecessor Joao Havelange, it bills itself as the story of &#8220;a group of passionate European mavericks&#8221; who &#8220;join forces on an ambitious project: the Fédération Internationale de Football Association&#8221;. The trailer, however, largely depicts men in a boardroom discussing football administration.

The film cost a reported £19m to make, with Fifa said to have pumped £16m into the project, and flatteringly portrays Blatter, Rimet and Havelange as visionaries and icons of the global game. Blatter himself was reported to have tweaked the script.

rushing to the theather
 

Derp1na

Banned
It's pretty interesting, not sure if it was posted here a couple of weeks ago, but David Bentley mentioned that as one of the reasons he quit football:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DlO6XZxNdU

Stats in football are supplemental. They tell you nothing if you're not actually watching the players play.

It's like Dawson having a higher average top speed than Yaya. Yaya runs with the ball and has to navigate past defenders, whereas Dawson simply has to run in a straight line to the attackers. The stats don't account for tactics, instructions, where the players are actually running, etc.

American sports are stats based game. Football isn't.

Bentley is spot on.
 

Manager

Member
Stats in football are supplemental. They tell you nothing if you're not actually watching the players play.

It's like Dawson having a higher average top speed than Yaya. Yaya runs with the ball and has to navigate past defenders, whereas Dawson simply has to run in a straight line to the attackers. The stats don't account for tactics, instructions, where the players are actually running, etc.

American sports are stats based game. Football isn't.

I don't think anyone is comparing defenders with midfielders. It could be valuable to compare the fact that Henderson managed to make twice as many sprints as Yaya, even though Yaya is seen as a box-to-box midfielder.

One reason that Yaya has so low sprint average is that City often have possession, and he's supposed to be the playmaker when City are in possession. But making few sprints defensively is one complaint many has on Yaya, "lazy", like sohois mentioned. People try to kill that argument by showing "distance covered" stat (which often is average/high), and now there's the sprint stats which shows another dimension of him.

Personally, I think a reason City managed to beat Bayern at Allianz was that Yaya was out. Fernandinho then covered Yaya's position and has much more agility, and the midfield played in a different way, more direct.
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Anyone else find it funny that Rooney couldn't be arsed for us all season but has suddenly decided to get in shape with two personal trainer for the world cup?
 

GQman2121

Banned
What a terrible thing to admit. I never watched myself play and didn't enjoy watching the sport while I was a player.

That's loser talk. I would be doing nothing but watching tape of my side and our opponents. That's how you get better, and learn to play smarter and save those unnecessary sprints for when you really need them.
 
Sorry if I'm late: Paris St-Germain charged over abuse of disabled Chelsea fans

Uefa has opened disciplinary proceedings against Paris St-Germain over allegations that their supporters threw bottles and spat at disabled Chelsea fans.

The Chelsea fans sat below the home supporters during the Champions League quarter-final first leg on 2 April in Paris, which PSG won 3-1.

"The five Chelsea fans in question allege they were abused throughout the match, with one saying in her statement that she suffered a panic attack at the final whistle.

"At the Parc de Princes the Chelsea fans were placed directly in front of home fans, something that happens at three Premier League grounds. This case could force clubs to reconsider the location of their wheelchair sections."

Uefa has never before charged a team with abusing disabled fans.

Its disciplinary commission will decide on any punishment on 17 July.

The French champions have been charged under article 14 of Uefa's disciplinary regulations for "racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda".

If the allegations are proven, PSG face a fine and partial stadium closure at their first home match of next season's Champions League.

Chelsea won the second leg of this season's quarter-final tie at Stamford Bridge to knock PSG out on away goals.

Earlier this month, PSG were fined about £49m by Uefa and had the size of their squad capped for next season's Champions League for breaching financial fair play rules.
 
Anyone else find it funny that Rooney couldn't be arsed for us all season but has suddenly decided to get in shape with two personal trainer for the world cup?
To be fair to him of all the things you can criticise him for I don't think lack of effort is one. He works hard. One of the few players who really worked hard for Moyes it seems.
 
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