LabouredSubterfuge
Member
You see I have this friend called doicare and I have a feeling you're not going to see eye to eye on your understanding of stats (which I completely agree with by the by).
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Football Thread 2013/14 |ot21| Get a refund.
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You see I have this friend called doicare and I have a feeling you're not going to see eye to eye on your understanding of stats (which I completely agree with by the by).
Where's he gone anyway? Maybe he's learning how football actually works?
Good. I don't mind giving Soldado another go but if we can get someone like Lukaku then it's a no-brainer. Personally I still blame AVB for how things turned out with him, he pushed to sign him but then played a style of football where he could never succeed.
Good to hear, Cleggie
Sounds like the worst thing ever.
Chris Eldergill @EldergillCNN
JUST IN: Suarez's agent tells me that 'he will be able to play in the World Cup' after reports that he has injured his knee. @CNNFC
Chris Eldergill @EldergillCNN
According to Uruguayan journalist @MartinCharquero Suárez will have knee surgery in 2-3hrs. His agent tells me it is 'not clear'. @CNNFC
JUST IN: Suarez's agent tells me that 'he will be able to play in the World Cup' after reports that he has injured his knee. @CNNFC
Chris Eldergill @EldergillCNN
According to Uruguayan journalist @MartinCharquero Suárez will have knee surgery in 2-3hrs. His agent tells me it is 'not clear'. @CNNFC
You got to put the stats in their context though, when you compare them without watching the players play (which I think you could, with good enough variables). If you're gonna compare a central midfielder with a box-to-box midfielder, then it's not a fair comparison.
If you are gonna compare Henderson and Yaya and say "Hey, they covered as much distance, they must have the same fitness levels", it's not always the same as we know Henderson runs limitless. The sprint stats also shows this.
One interesting stat there is for example Lallana vs Hazard. They both covered similar distance, they both have similar top speed, similar number of sprints. However, Lallana's avg speed is 7.71 while Hazard is 6.61. That could give Lallana the idea of a "headless chicken", or the idea of Hazard standing still a lot (since we know they're both fast when they actually sprint). Now, only when you compare the avg speed with other people on that list, you'd get context of what that number represent, comparing them with other players and avg numbers (if you can't watch them IRL and actually see for yourself).
This kind of data mining could revolutionize Fifa ratings, Football Manager ratings, for players that are outside of Premier League and not as famous. It could possibly revolutionize club scouting if more leagues has more detailed stats, since you could find hidden gems all over the world without even watching them play.
However, if you chose to pick out certain stats and not put them in their context, you'd get pretty shitty stats. Football journalists aren't any statisticians, but it would be interesting if more people like the Whoscored guys would get more space on TV or in newspapers.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
No I agree with you. It's just hilarious watching doicare pulling some stat in isolation (like possession or headers won) with zero context and believe that's why Man United deserved to win the game. It insults everyone's intelligence including his.
Vivalaraza
Member
I don't think he's serious m8.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
I hope not.
DOUBLE POSTTTT whoops
prove me wrong
I'm still waiting to be proven wrong
don't post one liners.
u have nothing to say?
hello?
prove me wrong
I'm still waiting to be proven wrong
don't post one liners.
u have nothing to say?
hello?
I guess I was mostly answering to Derp1na , "Stats in football are supplemental. They tell you nothing if you're not actually watching the players play."
I think if you have good enough variables, which we're starting to have, you could pinpoint Yaya's or Hazard's characteristics without actually watching them play.
It would be like the Moneyball movie, but which much more details and on a much bigger global basic, compared to American sports (and the movie) which often use North-American scouting networks. They "only" have to cover one country, while football clubs basically can find hidden gems in any country with a good scouting network.
He puts way too much effort in to not be serious.
DerZuhälter
Member
Yeah, no. Gamesense is something that isn't measured. Knowing which pass is the better one, which direction to run is better and your passive influence on the game by being marked and spreading out defenders are feats not measured and make all the difference.
FlutterPuffs
Member
...Rooney was fantastic for us 3/4 of last season. He dropped off after he got injured. He was never great in pacing himself to last in a good form for one whole season.
Not to say you are wrong, in that football is much bigger, but I thought baseball routinely find young talent from places like Columbia or in the Far East. And with Moneyball, it wasn't just about scouts vs stats, but which stat to pay attention to. I don't see how it can't be matched in football eventually.
True :lol
I analysed his goals a few pages ago. Most of them were useless and the decisive ones were penalties.
he's capable of doing so much more, he's a brilliant player.
DerZuhälter;112958464 said:
Yeah, no. Gamesense is something that isn't measured. Knowing which pass is the better one, which direction to run is better and your passive influence on the game by being marked and spreading out defenders are feats not measured and make all the difference.
I'm not saying you can get a complete profile of what they think, how their brain work. When I said "characteristics", I meant things like "tendency to not track back", "likes to dribble from standing still", "likes to stay inside penalty area". Characteristics that exist in Fifa or FM, but are put there by people who sees these things manually.
If you look at players who aren't as famous (like Scandinavian leagues or Asian) in Fifa/FM, you quickly see that they have very few characteristics because no one watches them play. If you could data mine statistics from less famous leagues, you could probably get somewhat accurate characteristics without watching them play. Plus, as a IRL scout, if you want to find a player that tracks back, works hard, likes to pick out key passes, you could potentially in the future do a smilar search like in FM by using stats. These scouts put in those characteristics manually today, but they can only watch a couple hundred players each year. With good stats, they could get info on tens of thousands instantly.
Obviously, a scout will always want to meet a player, talk to them, see how their personality is before recommending them. No data mining will take out that, ever. But to find hidden gems and THEN visit/scout them, that's what I meant with finding hidden gems.
There's no such thing as a useless goal. They all count to the goal difference which went a long way to deciding the league title.
FlutterPuffs
Member
DerZuhälter;112958464 said:
Yeah, no. Gamesense is something that isn't measured. Knowing which pass is the better one, which direction to run is better and your passive influence on the game by being marked and spreading out defenders are feats not measured and make all the difference.
That can be measured given enough data, and why can't it? As far as I know players do not make decisions based on magic or other bullshit reasons.
Besides, data can show consistency. You may have a player like Ozil, who I agree has an amazing football brain, but is not really a good player if he cannot perform constantly in 80-90% of his matches.
Which stats to use was what we talked about earlier, "putting them in context". Didn't know baseball took players from South-America though.
It can be matched by football, but few leagues track these kinds of stats today. All leagues needs to become digitized, players on "GPS". Sure, we have key passes, assists, goals etc from most leagues, but we need more (like sprints).
Idiotic daily mail and other shitty rag readers.
We gain so much from being in the EU. People are so uneducated why it is good.
Instead they just moan and whine about immigration, taking our jobs etc.
Let's be honest, they aren't 'taking our jobs' as the British people have never been interested in doing theses jobs for the amount of pay that is offered.
I'm pretty sure Pepe Reina does
Exactly. Then, you could find out why he's inconsistant. You could compare if he plays better against crap opposition than good opposition. Or if he performs well when Arsenal lose, if the team win/lose ratio has anything to do with his consistency.
People talk a lot about Suarez not scoring against top-6 this season. It's an easy stat to check, you sit down and go through every goal Suarez has scored on for example ESPN: http://www.espnfc.com/player/_/id/125088/luis-suárez?cc=5739#ui-tabs-2
But the goal is to be able to do that on every single player in the world by the click of a button. For example, comparing if Will Hughes is good against good or bad teams in the Championship. Does he tackle less when he plays against physical teams, does he tend to hide? Or is it the opposite, does he get fired up against physical teams? Are these characteristics something that just will come better with age or does he need fitness training?
Then you got to pinpoint which teams are physical, define what "many tackles" are, which stats to look for when someone "hides". Is it low shot amount, low tackles, low sprints, low distance covered, which mix to use? Probably similar to how the FM Match Engine is programmed when it decides how matches will play out.
Every PL team has probably already scouted Will Hughes and found those things out, but they had to do it manually and it probably took many weeks to get a good image of him. The goal is to be able to do all that work with the click of a button.
Nicktendo86
Member
Yeah, it's stupid. If you are crap enough at life that you feel an uneducated, non-English speaking Bulgarian could take your job, then you already fucked your own life up a long time ago.
It must be said though, that the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems are doing a fucking terrible job of communicating the positives of being in the EU. Not that people would listen, FOREIGNERS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS!!!
Vivalaraza
Member
People vote for Ukip for more reasons than just because they're stupid or uneducated. Rest of the political landscape have done an awful job to challenge them.
Edit - Ah King Moc has just said it.
Edit - Ah King Moc has just said it.
Nicktendo86
Member
The emphasis needs to be on the eu and pro EU people to tell us then what the benefits are. No one has actually worked out how much the EU costs us vs what we get from it. We run a trade deficit with the EU, so what benefits outweigh that?
Farage is a cunt, but he beat Clegg in the debates as he put forward the better arguments. Clegg had a chance to defend the EU but was just negative and came out with a load of dodgy stats.
No, I thought it was merely interesting to see Yaya as such an outlier compared to the others on that list and felt we might be able to draw some interesting conclusions from that. But other than the extreme outliers, the sprint stat tells us very little indeed
DerZuhälter;112958464 said:
Yeah, no. Gamesense is something that isn't measured. Knowing which pass is the better one, which direction to run is better and your passive influence on the game by being marked and spreading out defenders are feats not measured and make all the difference.
Well this just isn't true, we are increasingly able to measure statistically some of the things you describe. In particular it's becoming more and more clear when a striker has good positional sense, good shooting ability, when their goal tallies are lucky or unlucky and so on. Statistics still lag behind in measuring things like passing ability or defensive decision making, but that is more because statistical analysis is still quite new for football and the shooting areas are the easiest to look at. More and more work is being done with the passing and defensive statistics.
Farage has been on Question Time 15 times and I don't recall anyone questioning him on the fact that his party wants to get rid of the minimum number of paid holidays (28 days currently), sick pay, maternity leave and wants to make it so that businesses can discriminate on the basis of race, gender or sexual orientation.
Has anyone questioned them on that? It was all in their small businesses policy that they recently deleted from their site.
Manchester United legend Paul Scholes says he does not know if he will continue as coach at Old Trafford and says executive vice-chairman has much to prove.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...riticises-Manchester-Uniteds-Ed-Woodward.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...riticises-Manchester-Uniteds-Ed-Woodward.html
Nicktendo86
Member
Excellent point. Shine a light on their policy outside immigration/Europe and they fall apart and are shown as the nutters they are.
FlutterPuffs
Member
<3 Scholes. He just speaks his mind.
wut i didnt not know this
The fuck are his reasons behind those? Surprised no one's smothered him in his sleep yet. Some guy I know who works for Farage got spat at and called a racist yesterday whilst doing some promotional work. :lol
The LBC James O'Brien interview with Nigel Farage is glorious.
It was so bad his director of communications had to stop it.
Got to be fit for when he's sold.
Milchmonster
Member
They'll change their minds when this is in their faces for a period of time...
That is vile. Someone pls pop it.
Steverulez
Member
Please don't sell this one to us as well!
I would be shocked if you signed Lukaku, absolutely shocked. If he leaves Chelsea on a permanent transfer, there are so many better options than Tottenham like Champions League football, title contenders, clubs with more stability in their managerial position (a bit rich coming from a Chelsea fan but never mind). Atletico and Dortmund have been linked more recently, no way would he choose to sign for Spurs above them, not that I think we'll sell him but don't quote me on that, he would also be more likely to sign for Everton than Spurs, because they have players we want to sign and maybe we can do a deal, but even that is much more likely than Spurs to me.
Latest talk is Jose wants to give him a new deal and ship him out on loan again which he will do if he gets guarantees about his future when he gets back, supposedly.
Levy will not want to pay the price either, its a pipe dream.
FootballFan
Member
Which one of you is Drew?
http://tulo.3cdn.net/bb911e8cfce3a9b3ca_mlbrq2dye.pdf
http://tulo.3cdn.net/52402af80e13c83d92_mlbra2ebq.pdf
Section 3.1 and 3.2 of the above. Horrific stuff. Section 8 for the race stuff. It actually mentions the discrimination against the indigenous male (not female!) population.
They also want a flat rate of income tax of 31% for everyone, taxable on anything earned above £11,500 a year.
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