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Football Thread 2014/15 |OT1| Wes to make an awesome 2014-2015 OT1

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V

Vivalaraza

Member
How can his fashion sense be so awful. Doesn't he pay people to tell him how to dress.

Bt3h-naCQAA_tVo.jpg
 
M

Mastadon

Banned
sohois said:
Ross Barkley has a lot of potential, but his actual contribution is still fairly poor, which is fine for someone of his age but it wouldn't be nearly enough for a top 4 team, for example. Given that one saw discussion of moves to Man City and £50m transfer fees, I'd say his current ability is definitely overrated.

He scored 6 goals last season, which is good for a midfielder. But he had 0 assists. His passing stats are generally poor, he rarely creates chances and just doesn't make many passes in general, so it's not as if the former stat is restricted by his playing lots of passes further back or the possession based system he is in. His defensive contribution is also very poor, even taking into account his attacking nature. The areas he stands out in are dribbling and shooting, suggesting his style of play is to pick up the ball in midfield, dribble towards goal and have a shot. Which is fine, but the best attacking midfielders contribute all over the pitch.

Let's take Jonjo Shelvey as an example. He is a little older than Barkley, 2 years, but this was also his first full season in the PL, he is also english, similar style of player but one with considerably less hype. He also has 6 goals, but also has 6 assists, with decent defensive contribution and passing stats, as well as a similar number of shots. But you won't find Shelvey even in consideration for an England spot (interestingly, Shelvey also outmatches Wilshere in pretty much every area, and is the same age).
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Quoting because it doesn't deserve to be the last post on the page.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
sohois said:
Ross Barkley has a lot of potential, but his actual contribution is still fairly poor, which is fine for someone of his age but it wouldn't be nearly enough for a top 4 team, for example. Given that one saw discussion of moves to Man City and £50m transfer fees, I'd say his current ability is definitely overrated.

He scored 6 goals last season, which is good for a midfielder. But he had 0 assists. His passing stats are generally poor, he rarely creates chances and just doesn't make many passes in general, so it's not as if the former stat is restricted by his playing lots of passes further back or the possession based system he is in. His defensive contribution is also very poor, even taking into account his attacking nature. The areas he stands out in are dribbling and shooting, suggesting his style of play is to pick up the ball in midfield, dribble towards goal and have a shot. Which is fine, but the best attacking midfielders contribute all over the pitch.

Let's take Jonjo Shelvey as an example. He is a little older than Barkley, 2 years, but this was also his first full season in the PL, he is also english, similar style of player but one with considerably less hype. He also has 6 goals, but also has 6 assists, with decent defensive contribution and passing stats, as well as a similar number of shots. But you won't find Shelvey even in consideration for an England spot (interestingly, Shelvey also outmatches Wilshere in pretty much every area, and is the same age).
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Hopefully he has an injury free season this time. I think he can develop under Martinez.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Ronaldo was on a Japanese show where you're up against another celebrity and have 4 foods picked out and the other has to guess which one you dislike. One of the 2 hosts is Takaaki Ishibashi who was the Japanese player in the comedy, Major League 2. Ronaldo's going to need his best poker face.　

Beckham was on this show some years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPAByj7UOeM


Barkley is still young. Young players shouldn't be expected to have end product. He has great tools that Shelvey doesn't have and that is why he's rightly seen as the better prospect and carries more hype.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Gareth Bale said:
Kaboul is one knee injury away from his career being over. He doesn't have a long term future in the squad. I would be very surprised if he's with us next season. I think Dawson is the only one the club are trying to sell.
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From what I can see it's mostly been muscle injuries from adjusting to playing on his repaired knee, Sandro had the same issue after his knee injuries. Towards the end of last season Younes was playing regularly so I think we are giving him a chance. As with all players you can only sell them if someone wants to buy, that's why it seems like Daws and Vlad are the ones more likely to leave.
 
S

sohois

Member
KidA Seven said:
Barkley is still young. Young players shouldn't be expected to have end product. He has great tools that Shelvey doesn't have and that is why he's rightly seen as the better prospect and carries more hype.
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Well sure, but I'm merely talking about his contribution right now and whether that is overrated. To go back to Stirling vs Barkley, Stirling is already amongst the very top attacking players despite his age. Barkley is merely playing well for his age but has a long way to match the best midfielders; he is a long way from the City midfielders and yet it was suggested that City would pick him up in the event of a Toure departure.
 
G

Gareth Bale

Member
You won't find Shelvey in consideration for an England spot because he's nowhere near as good as Ross Barkley

Too much reliance on stats for me. I reckon I could come up with stats to argue Andros Townsend is better than both of them.
 
S

sohois

Member
Gareth Bale said:
You won't find Shelvey in consideration for an England spot because he's nowhere near as good as Ross Barkley

Too much reliance on stats for me. I reckon I could come up with stats to argue Andros Townsend is better than both of them.
Click to expand...

No, you couldn't. Townsend has 1 goal and no assists. Abysmal defensive contribution, shite passing stats. Has good dribbles and shots, like Barkley, but for a winger that is nothing special and clearly he is taking a lot of very poor shots or has poor shooting ability since he only got one goal.

edit: oh, and he loses the ball a lot. Didn't play nearly as much as Barkley, though, to be fair
 
L

L1NETT

Member
Shelvey was talked about as the next big thing in similar terms to other hot english prospects when he was at the Valley.

He stagnated after his big move, but it's nice to see him get his career back on track.

Gareth Bale said:
You won't find Shelvey in consideration for an England spot because he's nowhere near as good as Ross Barkley

Too much reliance on stats for me. I reckon I could come up with stats to argue Andros Townsend is better than both of them.
Click to expand...

Letho knows

Stats can prove anything. Reason Barkley probably had poor defensive contribution (whatever that even means) was because Barry and Mccarthy behind him were among the best pairing in the division. Barkley didn't need to do much "defensive contributing"
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Gareth Bale said:
You won't find Shelvey in consideration for an England spot because he's nowhere near as good as Ross Barkley

Too much reliance on stats for me. I reckon I could come up with stats to argue Andros Townsend is better than both of them.
Click to expand...

Talking about end product contribution and output, I don't think there are any stats that would support that claim, unless you include U21 football.

Not saying Shelvey is better anyway. But Shelvey v Barkley would be a more relevant comparison than Sterling v Barkley.
 
G

Gareth Bale

Member
sohois said:
No, you couldn't. Townsend has 1 goal and no assists. Abysmal defensive contribution, shite passing stats. Has good dribbles and shots, like Barkley, but for a winger that is nothing special and clearly he is taking a lot of very poor shots or has poor shooting ability since he only got one goal.

edit: oh, and he loses the ball a lot. Didn't play nearly as much as Barkley, though, to be fair
Click to expand...

Just got to pick the right stats.

townsendgrbv6.png


We can talk about assists, but Steven Davis got 7 assists last season.
 
S

sohois

Member
L1NETT said:
Shelvey was talked about as the next big thing in similar terms to other hot english prospects when he was at the Valley.

He stagnated after his big move, but it's nice to see him get his career back on track.

Letho knows

Stats can prove anything. Reason Barkley probably had poor defensive contribution (whatever that even means) was because Barry and Mccarthy behind him were among the best pairing in the division. Barkley didn't need to do much "defensive contributing"
Click to expand...

Ignores the reality of modern football. Even in a 3 man midfield you would expect each player to pull their weight defensively, otherwise you might as well just play 2 there. And if you wanted to argue he is practically an AM or No.10, well the days of those players staying high up the pitch and not tracking back are long gone. Either they put in effort all across the pitch, like Coutinho and Willian who both have absurd tackles and interceptions, or they press high up the pitch, in which case Barkley is either not bothering or very poor at it.

edit: I was using whoscored stats, which are markedly different than those in squawka for some reason
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
sohois said:
Ignores the reality of modern football. Even in a 3 man midfield you would expect each player to pull their weight defensively, otherwise you might as well just play 2 there. And if you wanted to argue he is practically an AM or No.10, well the days of those players staying high up the pitch and not tracking back are long gone. Either they put in effort all across the pitch, like Coutinho and Willian who both have absurd tackles and interceptions, or they press high up the pitch, in which case Barkley is either not bothering or very poor at it.
Click to expand...

I think #10s have the least defensive responsibility. Mou wants his #10s to defend, but a lot of managers aren't like that.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Gareth Bale said:
Just got to pick the right stats.


We can talk about assists, but Steven Davis got 7 assists last season.
Click to expand...

You're using per 90 metrics for a player that barely plays 50 minutes a game and comparing him to Barkley that's played 67 minutes a game and Shelvey that's played 77, that's hardly a fair comparison.
 
L

L1NETT

Member
sohois said:
Ignores the reality of modern football. Even in a 3 man midfield you would expect each player to pull their weight defensively, otherwise you might as well just play 2 there. And if you wanted to argue he is practically an AM or No.10, well the days of those players staying high up the pitch and not tracking back are long gone. Either they put in effort all across the pitch, like Coutinho and Willian who both have absurd tackles and interceptions, or they press high up the pitch, in which case Barkley is either not bothering or very poor at it.

edit: I was using whoscored stats, which are markedly different than those in squawka for some reason
Click to expand...

Snip_1.jpg


Stats

are

shite
 
G

Gareth Bale

Member
Gentle Rodriguez said:
You're using per 90 metrics for a player that barely plays 50 minutes a game and comparing him to Barkley that's played 67 minutes a game and Shelvey that's played 77, that's hardly a fair comparison.
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Why is it hardly a fair comparison?

Comparing totals would obviously be unfair. And average per game would be unfair because it gives too much weighting to 10 minute substitute appearances.
 
M

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Kids took my ball again playing football, parent laughed, they tried to throw it in the little canal thing but I caught them, I told the parent this was unacceptable and she said "Fuck off".

I

Hate

The World
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Mr Cola said:
Kids took my ball again playing football, parent laughed, they tried to throw it in the little canal thing but I caught them, I told the parent this was unacceptable and she said "Fuck off".

I

Hate

The World
Click to expand...
Should have kicked her in the cunt and pushed her kids in the canal. Little shits.
 
L

L1NETT

Member
sohois said:
Did you seriously just use blocks and clearance stats to make your point?
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My point is stats are mostly trainspotting gobldeshite and are so vague and nonsensical they can be used to make literally any point somehow valid

I prefer watching the players and making my mind up rather than have algebra justify it.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Mr Cola said:
Kids took my ball again playing football, parent laughed, they tried to throw it in the little canal thing but I caught them, I told the parent this was unacceptable and she said "Fuck off".

I

Hate

The World
Click to expand...
Next time you see them break something they own and tell the parents to fuck off if they complain

Revenge feels so good
 
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