Former Bend Studio Developer, Robert Morrison, says "PlayStation needs to:"
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
Felessan
Member
So my statement was right and your was wrong. Simple.
Fortnite age starts where Nintendo games age ends - roughly at teens age
I already wrote a lengthy post in this topic about it - basically it's a whine from a person who wants a job security of good ol' times where he was relevant and who invents various bullshit for it.
Sony records metric shows that Sony do successfully followed market, kicked first Nin from home consoles and now MS and comfortably sit in dominant position. And it for sure doesn't need advices from nobodies or "formers" those doesn't even understand how current market looks like.
And all those delusional guys filled this topic are just hurt that market ~shifted~ and they are left in sidelines. It's no longer their market, it's market for Fortnite and Genshin fans. As a result they regress mentally to child age to play "Princess "we are friends" in another castle" where everything is made to be suitable for 5yo.
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AGRacing
Member
I'm not buying a PS6 on launch (the first PlayStation ever that I would not have) unless:
- There's a REAL launch line up of EXCLUSIVE, ORIGINAL games. Or a sequel to a classic launch window franchise that shows the hardware off (Ridge Racer? Wipeout?). And if RT is the real game changer here we better see some mind blowing title designed around it.
- More than one 1st party or exclusive single player games announced for roadmap.
- Pricing BETTER than PS5 Pro.
- Some enthusiasm. Do a FUN E3 style press conference perhaps… I'm done watching these horrible state of play videos… they suck the energy out of the whole thing. LAUNCH this thing. Don't just put up a YouTube video and then open preorders on Amazon like a bunch of assholes.
- There's a REAL launch line up of EXCLUSIVE, ORIGINAL games. Or a sequel to a classic launch window franchise that shows the hardware off (Ridge Racer? Wipeout?). And if RT is the real game changer here we better see some mind blowing title designed around it.
- More than one 1st party or exclusive single player games announced for roadmap.
- Pricing BETTER than PS5 Pro.
- Some enthusiasm. Do a FUN E3 style press conference perhaps… I'm done watching these horrible state of play videos… they suck the energy out of the whole thing. LAUNCH this thing. Don't just put up a YouTube video and then open preorders on Amazon like a bunch of assholes.
ecosse_011172
Banned
I love that you completely dismiss the opinions of an experienced professional because they aren't endlessly praising your favourite company.
I'll just assume that you yourself are a kid and don't know any better, that's usually where the "kiddy" game talk comes from.
ecosse_011172
Banned
You'll get a cross-platform Horizon sequel and you'll like it.
AGRacing
Member
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Just by watching fucking commercials you know what audience Nintendo is targeting and which Playstation is.
How a single person in this universe can deny how they advertise themselves is mental to me.
How a single person in this universe can deny how they advertise themselves is mental to me.
Felessan
Member
Experienced?
He is ~animator~ not even on managerial role. He knows about stuff like any other, it's not his job to know about monetization, market state, consumer preferences and other stuff important in making decisions.
To add details - he is unemployed and he spent last 3 years on cancelled project (presumably gaas) - so he should be very frustrated by how things turn out for him and his career.
I follow industry for 25 years. Not just play SP games and pretend that gaming world beyond them does not exist. I saw how live service games from ~mid-90~ mutate, multiply, evolve and encroach rest of the gaming until it reached breaking point and all suddenly freaked out (as I started to play them back in 98). I have some friends in industry, mostly in game design who a miles more close to giving proper advices "how to make popular and profitable games". Even lowly QA normally knows more about how to make a proper games than artists. But of course artists are the first who complain "I want my voice to be heard and my "novel" ideas to be incorporated" when nobody asked about their opinion.
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ecosse_011172
Banned
ecosse_011172
Banned
Yeah, I've watched football my whole life so I know better than professionals.
I also watch a lot of Netflix so I know much, much more about TV than Seth fucking Rogan.
ecosse_011172
Banned
Seriously, no wonder people say that gamers are toxic.
People fucking looking down their nose at someone with years of industry experience because they're only an animator.
People fucking looking down their nose at someone with years of industry experience because they're only an animator.
kaizenkko
Member
That's just speculation on your part — and a terrible one.
Nintendo had to reinvent itself multiple times to stay in the market. They literally made way more mistakes than Sony. They lost with the Nintendo 64 and GameCube and had to reinvent themselves with the Wii. Then they failed badly with the Wii U and had to reinvent themselves again with the Switch.
In short, what I'm saying is that Nintendo is not immune to mistakes, and their strategy is neither absolute nor superior.
Felessan
Member
He knows about making a profitable games as much as guy giving bottles of water to players about playing football.
He is not Seth Rogan, his job is to animate stuff. And animation is though affect quality of the game, doesn't really impact important parts of making game interesting and/or profitable.
Felessan
Member
I will look down to anybody in any industry who has no ~relevant~ job experience and all he can say is just "years in industry". Reception clerk worked for 30 years in bank knows nothing about banking. Guy giving bottles of water for players for 20 years doesn't know how to play football. "I was nearby" means nothing.
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ecosse_011172
Banned
Your arrogance and lack of respect is not a good look.
Please don't reply further.
Felessan
Member
Respect is earned, not given
I understands responsibility split in process and I do respect him for ~his~ job. Which is animation and given his linkedin portfolio he is quite good at it.
Why would I respect him for areas he has really low touch with, it's not his expertise and he is as much as layman as any other in them.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Exactly. They are gonna b
As Sony approaches a $Billion yearly on PC??
That list is Bryank's wet dream, I'm not sure whom it serves other than people's thinking consoles have to be walled gardens. Devs at Sony asked to be outside, always remember that.
- lets make less money
- lets become irrelevant in China
- lets entice PC players to become PSN subs with powerful gurl boss LGBT games
Brilliant stategy that is sure to be a hit with investors
ozz ex machina
Member
Isn't it quite obvious that it's the fidelity and obsession with realism that is making games infinitely more expensive and complex to make? I'm sure some is mismanagement but if rockstar and ND could make games of their quality on a more frequent basis, they obviously fucking would.
archangelmorph
Gold Member
Preach!
I've never understood how creative outfits never seem to really understand how to make the most of talent.
Large stable companies with strong financial bases should be able to absorb the sunk cost of keeping their most talented people in-house and away from their competitors, instead of the constant cycle of hiring and layoffs.
Foster this institutionalised know-how and mindshare and you can do potentially wonderful things with it.
I get that production for AAA titles will ramp up and ramp down in cycles, but fuck me, there's potentially so much you can do with the residual talent left over after a major release that you don't need to keep people on the bench.
Running staggered AAA projects allows you to shuffle talent from one major IP to the next during big ramp up phases.
Separately, spare designers can incubate new design prototypes, trial, proof and evolve them so you have some very very very strong design and mechanical concepts to bring into your next big title, that's proven, tested and properly validated (but more importantly, innovative).
Spare engineers can:
- pair up with designers on innovation prototyping
- prototype and test new engine or tech enhancements (more tools in the toolbox means less to prove during production, meaning less time wasted, meaning more predictable production cycles and avoidance of 8-10yr plus dev hell; *cough* FF XV etc *cough*)
- improve tooling and production pipelines
- just play with new game ideas too
- develop and adopt engineering enhancements via AI-enablement (e.g. vibe coding)
- learn and build skills and competence (less bugs, higher quality code, more brains to throw at hard problems etc)
- seniors can offer "talent-for-hire" consultancy for other studios (for their company; not a freelance basis - direct revenue into the war chest)
Spare artists can:
- refine and enhance DCC processes, competence and approaches
- learn and skills build (higher quality artwork, accelerated learning from adjacency to very high talent seniors)
- develop and master process and pipeline enhancements via AI-enablement
- build and expand on post-launch content for existing games
- seniors can offer "talent-for-hire" consultancy for other studios
And I'm sure there are a ton more productive ways this talent can be leveraged to ultimately accrue value to the studio, in a way that only cements the chances that their next big game will be shit hot, but also the studio actually grows from "Jak & Daxter" tier to "The Last of Us" tier in very much the same way some of these greats did back in the day.
Hell if you really want to get serious about this; simply have a Valve-like policy of "in-between assigned projects, devs are free to work of whatever they like but all your IPs are belong to us; but you'll get a royalty on the first title and phat/thicc bonuses on subsequent franchise entries if you release something and it blows the fuck up, oh and you get to lead the next big franchise and sold into the market as the next big auteur rockstar…"
I mean, big tech ran like this for years and there's a reason why these are far and away the most profitable and successful multi billion dollar / trillion dollar companies in the world today.
Cultivate, train and incubate talent and you'll be duly rewarded.
Treat talent like fucking no-name fungible resources (where studio heads and publishers build their stock-n-trade from PE-tier McKinsey slop-think, where they care only about short-term shareholder profit maximisation and employees are seen as fucking Walmart-tier pawns) and you'll erode your fucking stock until you can't succeed (Rare), burn millions on failing projects you need to cancel (Microsoft), have to pay through the nose on the industries best and brightest and still fuck it up and fail to make a good game (The Initiative, Concord, Bungie, DA: Veilgaurd, etc).
There's so much wasted potential in this industry it's utterly crazy…
Aenima
Member
I think ppl need to understand where Playstation makes more money from. (The pie charts might have shifted a bit since 2021, but should not be much different)
So Hardware + Digital Software from the PS Store + DLCs + Network Services = 90% of Playstation division Sales, and thats something Sony can only make by running a closed garden platform as they dont have a dedicated PS Store on PC where they could take that 30% cut from multiplatform games like Fifas, CODs, etc.
The more exclusives they let go, the less reasons ppl have to own a Playstation. The less money they will make. The 1st party sales they will make from other stores, will not offset the losses from ppl moving away from buying they next console.
From a business perspective, the dude from Bend is absolutelly correct in all his points. From a consumer perspective, is better for me if Sony keeps releasing games on PC as i already moved to PC going forward thanks to Sony PC ports.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I think ppl need to understand where Playstation makes more money from. (The pie charts might have shifted a bit since 2021, but should not be much different)
So Hardware + Digital Software from the PS Store + DLCs + Network Services = 90% of Playstation division Sales, and thats something Sony can only make by running a closed garden platform as they dont have a dedicated PS Store on PC where they could take that 30% cut from multiplatform games like Fifas, CODs, etc.
The more exclusives they let go, the less reasons ppl have to own a Playstation. The less money they will make. The 1st party sales they will make from other stores, will not offset the losses from ppl moving away from buying they next console.
From a business perspective, the dude from Bend is absolutelly correct in all his points. From a consumer perspective, is better for me if Sony keeps releasing games on PC as i already moved to PC going forward thanks to Sony PC ports.
Even at their best they are releasing a handful of games a year. Do you think PC gamers are going to abandon their PCs and pay to play online for that? Allow me to answer for you, no they are not.
You could say they will buy a console just for the exclusives and play all 3rd party on PC, (which is what I do) they are not really a valuable customer for Sony. Never gonna buy ps+. Never gonna buy a game that is available on PC. So all I'm giving you is the money for the console, which are either sold at a loss or on a razor thin margin. And I'm giving you 30% cut that you didn't give Valve. Now consider that the vast majority of PC gamers would rather just skip your game than buy a console for it.
Plus they have the opportunity to make money in markets where consoles are simply not popular like Asia. Notice all their China Hero games they are publishing are day 1 on PC.
There is a huge market of casuals who do not give a shit about things like performance and mods, and can't be bothered to build a PC. Consoles are inherently attractive because you just plug it into your TV and you're done. Sony is making more money than ever just collecting tax on shark cards and battle passes. The days of things like Halo and Uncharted being the best selling games are long gone.
What nobody ever brings up in these discussions and the real reason lots of gamers built PCs is Sony losing all their defacto Japanese exclusives last gen. They were getting a ton of banger exclusives before that without paying for them and that is now dead and buried.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Disregarding that I already explained the answers to your rhetorical questions in a previous thread, this is just incorrect. Uncharted 4 sold more on PS4 alone than any other game in the series before, and many, many multiplats too.
If anything, the kind of exclusives Sony used to make would sell even higher now than they did last gen. Same as Nintendo.
And the question beyond that is whether or not new games made under the pretence of a PC port are going to be at or above a certain quality such that it's even relevant to gamers like you.
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Felessan
Member
Sorry, what?
Sony has most major gacha games on it's platform and biggest chinese single-player games. It's already a huge breakthrough as it allows PlayStation to enter competition with it's lucrative price-value proposition.
It was a huge win for Playstation when they risked to get Genshin on platform - it allowed PS to have a small but trojan horse in the uncharted market. And that market is like 95% gaas, 90% of them are local. It's not a market of Wukong as some may think. It's a market of Genshin and Chinese MMO.
Having local very popular game on your "value for money" box (compared to PC) helps a lot. TLOU/Spiderman or whatever SP games Sony might hold back from porting to PC will never have any effect on that market. TLOU on PC (to get awareness of PS platform) and Genshin on PS5 though might change decision when a question of upgrade arise.
And that market is huge, it reached roughly 80bn in revenue and China now exports roughly 20bn in game sales.
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
It's not "kids" its FAMILY. And that includes kids. Also, party with friends at home, with local co-op. That's a very clear brand positioning and it works.
Playstation portraits themselves as the "cool guy", Nintendo as the "family man" and "better with friends".
So, their strategies are different, even if there's a big overlap in audiences that buy games of both brands. You can't apply the core formula of one to the other. Growing legacy IPs is an universal winning formula, but it's easier said than done.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Uncharted 4 didn't even make the top 10 grossing games the year it was released, which was 9 years ago and a very different market according to wiki.
Sony IP are just not as popular as Nintendo. Pokemon is the most popular IP in the world and is a permanent Nintendo exclusive. Mario Kart, Smash, Mario, Animal Crossing, etc are genuine evergreens that chart for years and years.
I honestly don't care if Sony never ports another game, and have only bought Returnal and Ghost of Sushi on Steam. I'm just saying it's going to be a very difficult sell to investors.
Wukong selling 20M PC copies in China tells you there are at least 20M gamers there with PCs strong enough to run a very demanding game. PC and mobile are entrenched there. It's like EGS desperately trying to claw market share from Steam. They give games away for free and nobody cares. Customer acquisition costs will be astronomical. Or they could do what they are already doing and port their games. Again I don't see why they would stop except a bunch of crytal ball gazing hypotheticals that have not come to pass in the 5 years since they started. The only people upset are 40 year olds who have aged out of being their target demographic. Zoomers do not give a fuck about exclusives and will play games with on screen controls on a fucking iPad and pay out the ass for it.
Gojiira
Member
Nothing in GOY looks woke at all, did you not watch the fucking gameplay reveal?
JayK47
Member
It was my understanding that they make more money from games than console sales. Console sales were almost break even. So they want you to buy a console to mostly buy more games. Having exclusives may convince you to buy a console, and then you buy more games for that console and it benefits them. But if most gamers also have PCs, then why not sell a PC version at some point as well and double dip or get a new sale? I think timed exclusives work well for Xbox and Sony.
Nintendo is not really the same situation as they have long since lost the hardware spec battle and have gone down the road to offering cartoon games on a unique "console" and they will likely never release their games on any other system. I have almost 100% moved away from being interested in Nintendo games. The only reason I would buy another Nintendo console is for my kids to fight over.
Nintendo is not really the same situation as they have long since lost the hardware spec battle and have gone down the road to offering cartoon games on a unique "console" and they will likely never release their games on any other system. I have almost 100% moved away from being interested in Nintendo games. The only reason I would buy another Nintendo console is for my kids to fight over.
ecosse_011172
Banned
I don't even know what "twisted DEI" means, fucking demented.
I imagine that "woke infested" means showing something apart from homoerotic muscular space marines being all manly and killing shit in their pickups.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Exactly.
Problem is people have a narrow view on life and business. When it comes to game playing, most gamers dont even think of China. Same with movie watchers looking at only domestic sales and ignoring international results. They think everything is USA USA USA. They probably think everyone in China is dirt poor working in rice fields and restaurants, and nobody is rich enough to have a good car, home or PC.
Unless Sony wants to make regional games like a big consumers good company making lots of global brands and also distinct regional brands nobody in other countries would ever know about, big games from big companies will try to sell what they got to as many people as possible. They got the advantage of just localizing it with language adjustments and digitally distribute it. Dont even need physical copies. Just have the server downloads ready.
And if Sony doesnt want to make Asian region specific console or PC games, and PC gaming in China is way bigger than console gaming, then Sony will make games on PC so everyone in any county can buy.
Same goes for mobile. Sony hasnt gotten into that (aside from that huge Grand Fate game run by their music division some reason), but they did buy that Neon Koi mobile studio years ago. For whatever reason it got shut down with no games launched so they didnt have anything good to sell. But if they did, they'd launch it with language settings and go global.
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kaizenkko
Member
Give up.
They won't agree with what you're saying, because the people who can't see what you're clearly explaining are the ones who feel personally "attacked" by the fact that Sony no longer has true exclusives. People are desperately trying to convince themselves that Sony is wrong for releasing games on PC.
Fluffytheterrible
Member
Keep Playstation games off the PC! Keep them exclusive!!!
Taur007
Member
Yeah until Sony games start looking like Nintendo games. Gamers don't judge Nintendo the same way they do Xbox/PS
4 years wouldn't be enough time today for your precious movie games to look the way they do
Bernardougf
Member
They are wrong only if they still want to have a dominant console business .. if times have changed and their priority strategy is not high quality FP games to sell consoles..... but to sell as much multiplat software possible everywhere , specially multiplayer/gaas games ... than thats ok. Its their strategy and they have to pursue it.. just like xbox is doing.
What people are questioning here is the notion that this "change" of strategy by Sony will have zero effects on their gaming/console business in the long run.
You usually cant have your cake and eat it too... you cant became multiplat and keep your closed hardware business exactly the same... something got give... if sony go full third party and have a successful ps6 gen (just like ps4 and ps5) than this would be the first multiplat console ever to succeed like this.
I think some people are severely/conveniently underestimating the historical importance of exclusive games for brand recognition and hardware sales... people are looking at the ps5 success and the lack of first party exclusives and concluding that they are not important anymore... and forgetting or ignoring all the circumstances for this current ps5 success (absolutely lack of competition and specially surfing on the good will from previous gens).
Maybe sony dosent see the switch or pc as real competition and think they can now cruise alone forever in the "top end" closed box/console without having to worry about exclusives like in the past.
It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Nobody ever said it will never ever affect the PS console business. It comes down to if the greater whole doing multiplats on PC, Switch, Xbox is better for the bottom line than walling it off.
They already have ported around 15 games to PC, and a handful of Switch/Xbox games with MLB, Lego Horizon and upcoming H2 for Xbox. And PS gaming division seems to be humming along fine. I think the gaming divisions profits are approaching covid level profits which is great since not all companies have been able to replicate stay at home covid financials 4-5 years ago.
What walled garden supporters are assuming is that everything will crash down and the overall net effect will be bad. And the execs are wrong the whole time and every port done is a bad move.
Crossplat supporters assume things will be fine and Sony's financials will be net gainers end of the day.
And so far, crossplat supporters are winning. PC ports have gone on for 5 years and I dont see PS5 sales sinking with tons of gamers bailing the ecosystem and buying a PC rig. It cant be that bad folks since Sony is doing more ports.
Helldivers 2 releases on Xbox in 3 weeks. Sony's biggest smash hit in years. And the Xbox crowd does like shooters. We'll see how detrimental it is to PS5. Who knows, maybe tons of PS5 gamers bail and buy an Xbox. IMO, it'll sell a good number of copies and thats kind of it. Both Sony and MS make some money off it and the PS5 ecosystem is safe.
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kaizenkko
Member
I've already explained in detail in other threads why releasing games on PC or even on other platforms is largely irrelevant to the console business. And I did so using facts and publicly available data. But when you make a well-grounded post like that, people run out of arguments and disappear. So I'm not going to waste my time.
Sony just announced their latest quarterly results, showing growth in all relevant areas. Record profit, more game and console sales, growth in monthly active users, etc. But if you want to convince yourself that their business is doomed to fail—go ahead!
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
And? It didn't outsell FIFA. It sold like 16 million copies on PS4. That's not to be scoffed at under any circumstances. Again, it outsold and outgrossed most multiplats.
China is not reliable or that relevant a market. Again:
Non-Chinese titles can easily be outright banned on a dim. It's funny that Beige brings up the box office when a few hundred million dollars per blockbuster has been taken entirely off the table after 10 years of relative openness on Beijing's whim. Strategizing significantly around China is a recipe for disaster.
Bernardougf
Member
We have several users in multiple
Threads by now saying that this will have no effects on their hardware business .. that they will loose no sales because people are locked to the ecosystem and because of back catalog or because of the harder path to use PCS.
so yes a lot of people are supporting this decision with the only concept being "more soft sales more money, zero consequences and changes"... and I dont think it will work like this at all.. whatever happens the future will not only be "now sony and xbox sells games everywhere" ...
Bernardougf
Member
If You read my post and what you come out with is thst I said "their business is doomed to fail".. I cant help you anymore ... and using current sales/profits data is irrelevant when the company decide to change their business politics.. you cant use current sale data to support a different future
The ps2 was a succes.. the wii was a success... their next installments were failures (the ps3 recovered but with much less sales).. and so on .. by different reasons.. but predicting future platform success because of current data is not a safe metric.
"Nintendo is going multiplatform and all their games will come out in every console next gen .. but look switch 2 is a renowned success so obviously the switch 3 will also be"
Continue to live in delusion if you think what I wrote upthere about nintendo makes any sense.
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Felessan
Member
Sony strategy is to sell Chinese games to Chinese in China. Not to sell Uncharted there.
They have multiple collaboration with biggest gacha game developers there as well as SP games and even China Hero project for this.
What is a recipe for disaster here - there are very little risk of bans in this case.
Fabieter
Member
Ofc they keep buying the Playstation on steam but they also do so with all of their 3p gaming. So yeah you whole point is shortsighted.
Fabieter
Member
And if you keep your old hardware you don't lose access to your bought content.
Staying on a platform just because you bought alot of stuff is stupid when you hate the shit going on said platform.
And if sony think they locked in to keep selling 100m+ on default they are in for a brutal awaking.
Ar¢tos
Member
You'll get a man in a tent playing guitar with a real time render of 2 bald space lesbians scissoring in the background.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Reason why IMO suing Tencent over Light of Motiran is a dumb move. Horizon will never sell in China, so that was the chance to expand the IP over there.
With Shu out of the picture, Sony needs another representative with a similar insight, with a good eye to choose the right projects/devs.
Bernardougf
Member
And the PCMR agenda about this topic couldn't be more obvious
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Man, quit fucking crying like a little bitch about it. It's been 5 years. How old are you?
ecosse_011172
Banned
kaizenkko
Member
Sony has been multiplatform since 2020. The entire library of Sony's major games from the past decade is already available on PC. They've been gradually releasing these games on PC since 2020, and even so, their console continues to sell very well, software sales keep growing quarter after quarter, and the number of monthly active users is also increasing. By any measurable metric, releasing games on PC is not negatively impacting the console business in any way.
You can choose to believe otherwise for whatever reason, but it's precisely because of observations like these that Sony itself has stated it doesn't see its users migrating from the PS5 to PC. That's why they continue to release games on PC and even on competing platforms.