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[yogaflame]

Let me add to his sentence, " PlayStation needs to be like Nintendo"

 

[Felessan]

They weren't in the final Switch year but were the previous years, it's not complicated.

So my statement was right and your was wrong. Simple.

The fact that you think children aren't playing Fortnite is hilarious.

Fortnite age starts where Nintendo games age ends - roughly at teens age

I don't quite get what your point is, it seems to be that you are annoyed that the ex-bend guy criticised Sony for their GaaS Bullshit and that Sony have nothing to learn from Nintendo because Nintendo is for kids whereas Playstation is for big men and anyone who suggests otherwise is a stinky fanboy.

I already wrote a lengthy post in this topic about it - basically it's a whine from a person who wants a job security of good ol' times where he was relevant and who invents various bullshit for it.
Sony records metric shows that Sony do successfully followed market, kicked first Nin from home consoles and now MS and comfortably sit in dominant position. And it for sure doesn't need advices from nobodies or "formers" those doesn't even understand how current market looks like.
And all those delusional guys filled this topic are just hurt that market ~shifted~ and they are left in sidelines. It's no longer their market, it's market for Fortnite and Genshin fans. As a result they regress mentally to child age to play "Princess "we are friends" in another castle" where everything is made to be suitable for 5yo.

 

[AGRacing]

I'm not buying a PS6 on launch (the first PlayStation ever that I would not have) unless:

- There's a REAL launch line up of EXCLUSIVE, ORIGINAL games. Or a sequel to a classic launch window franchise that shows the hardware off (Ridge Racer? Wipeout?). And if RT is the real game changer here we better see some mind blowing title designed around it.

- More than one 1st party or exclusive single player games announced for roadmap.

- Pricing BETTER than PS5 Pro.

- Some enthusiasm. Do a FUN E3 style press conference perhaps… I'm done watching these horrible state of play videos… they suck the energy out of the whole thing. LAUNCH this thing. Don't just put up a YouTube video and then open preorders on Amazon like a bunch of assholes.

 

[ecosse_011172]

So my statement was right and your was wrong. Simple.


Fortnite age starts where Nintendo games age ends - roughly at teens age


I wrote a lengthy post about it - basically it's a whine from a person who wants a job security of good ol' times where he was relevant and who invents various bullshit for it.
Sony records metric shows that Sony do successfully followed market, kicked first Nin from home consoles and now MS and comfortably sit in dominant position. And it for sure doesn't need advices from nobodies or "formers" those doesn't even understand how current market looks like.
And all those delusional guys filled this topic are just hurt that market ~shifted~ and they are left in sidelines. It's no longer their market, it's market for Fortnite and Genshin fans. As a result they regress mentally to child age to play "Princess "we are friend" in another castle" where everything is made to be suitable for 5yo.

I love that you completely dismiss the opinions of an experienced professional because they aren't endlessly praising your favourite company.
I'll just assume that you yourself are a kid and don't know any better, that's usually where the "kiddy" game talk comes from.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I'm not buying a PS6 on launch (the first PlayStation ever that I would not have) unless:

- There's a REAL launch line up of EXCLUSIVE, ORIGINAL games. Or a sequel to a classic launch window franchise that shows the hardware off (Ridge Racer? Wipeout?). And if RT is the real game changer here we better see some mind blowing title designed around it.

- More than one 1st party or exclusive single player games announced for roadmap.

- Pricing BETTER than PS5 Pro.

- Some enthusiasm. Do a FUN E3 style press conference perhaps… I'm done watching these horrible state of play videos… they suck the energy out of the whole thing. LAUNCH this thing. Don't just put up a YouTube video and then open preorders on Amazon like a bunch of assholes.

You'll get a cross-platform Horizon sequel and you'll like it.

 

[AGRacing]

You'l get a cross-platform Horizon sequel and you'll like it.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Just by watching fucking commercials you know what audience Nintendo is targeting and which Playstation is.

How a single person in this universe can deny how they advertise themselves is mental to me.

 

[Memati187]

I invested so much time and money into this ecosystem, at this point playstation needs to suck me off.

But these morons can't even deliver what they were known for once. I really don't give a fuck anymore, just let me have my physical games with no censorship and I'm good.

 

[Felessan]

I love that you completely dismiss the opinions of an experienced professional because they aren't endlessly praising your favourite company.
I'll just assume that you yourself are a kid and don't know any better, that's usually where the "kiddy" game talk comes from.

Experienced?
He is ~animator~ not even on managerial role. He knows about stuff like any other, it's not his job to know about monetization, market state, consumer preferences and other stuff important in making decisions.
To add details - he is unemployed and he spent last 3 years on cancelled project (presumably gaas) - so he should be very frustrated by how things turn out for him and his career.

I follow industry for 25 years. Not just play SP games and pretend that gaming world beyond them does not exist. I saw how live service games from ~mid-90~ mutate, multiply, evolve and encroach rest of the gaming until it reached breaking point and all suddenly freaked out (as I started to play them back in 98). I have some friends in industry, mostly in game design who a miles more close to giving proper advices "how to make popular and profitable games". Even lowly QA normally knows more about how to make a proper games than artists. But of course artists are the first who complain "I want my voice to be heard and my "novel" ideas to be incorporated" when nobody asked about their opinion.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Just by watching fucking commercials you know what audience Nintendo is targeting and which Playstation is.

How a single person in this universe can deny how they advertise themselves is mental to me.

OnLYkiDS

 

[ecosse_011172]

Experienced?
He is ~animator~ not even on managerial role. He knows about stuff like any other, it's not even his job to know about monetization, market state, consumer preferences and other stuff important in making decisions.
To add details - he is unemployed and he spent last 3 years on cancelled project - so he should be very frustrated by how things turn out for him and his career.

I follow industry for 25 years. Not just play SP games and pretend that gaming world beyond them does not exist. I saw how live service games from ~mid-90~ mutate, multiply, evolve and encroach rest of the gaming until it reached breaking point and all suddenly freaked out (as I started to play them back in 98). I have some friends in industry, mostly in game design who a miles more close to giving proper advices "how to make popular and profitable games". Even lowly QA normally knows more about how to make a proper games than artists. But of course artists are the first who complain "I want my voice to be heard and my "novel" ideas to be incorporated" when nobody asked about their opinion.

Yeah, I've watched football my whole life so I know better than professionals.
I also watch a lot of Netflix so I know much, much more about TV than Seth fucking Rogan.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Seriously, no wonder people say that gamers are toxic.
People fucking looking down their nose at someone with years of industry experience because they're only an animator.

 

[kaizenkko]

But Nintendo exclusivity principle and no pc port has bigger and long term success in the long run.

That's just speculation on your part — and a terrible one.

Nintendo had to reinvent itself multiple times to stay in the market. They literally made way more mistakes than Sony. They lost with the Nintendo 64 and GameCube and had to reinvent themselves with the Wii. Then they failed badly with the Wii U and had to reinvent themselves again with the Switch.

In short, what I'm saying is that Nintendo is not immune to mistakes, and their strategy is neither absolute nor superior.

 

[Felessan]

Yeah, I've watched football my whole life so I know better than professionals.
I also watch a lot of Netflix so I know much, much more about TV than Seth fucking Rogan.

He knows about making a profitable games as much as guy giving bottles of water to players about playing football.
He is not Seth Rogan, his job is to animate stuff. And animation is though affect quality of the game, doesn't really impact important parts of making game interesting and/or profitable.

 

[Felessan]

Seriously, no wonder people say that gamers are toxic.
People fucking looking down their nose at someone with years of industry experience because they're only an animator.

I will look down to anybody in any industry who has no ~relevant~ job experience and all he can say is just "years in industry". Reception clerk worked for 30 years in bank knows nothing about banking. Guy giving bottles of water for players for 20 years doesn't know how to play football. "I was nearby" means nothing.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I will look down to anybody in any industry who has no ~relevant~ job experience and all he can say is just "years in industry". Reception clerk worked for 30 years in bank knows nothing about banking. Guy giving bottles of water for players for 20 years doesn't know how to play football. "I was nearby" mean nothing.

Your arrogance and lack of respect is not a good look.
Please don't reply further.

 

[Felessan]

Your arrogance and lack of respect is not a good look.
Please don't reply further.

Respect is earned, not given
I understands responsibility split in process and I do respect him for ~his~ job. Which is animation and given his linkedin portfolio he is quite good at it.
Why would I respect him for areas he has really low touch with, it's not his expertise and he is as much as layman as any other in them.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Given how much MS is failing lately they don't have to do anything as they have no competition.

Exactly. They are gonna b

As Sony approaches a $Billion yearly on PC??

That list is Bryank's wet dream, I'm not sure whom it serves other than people's thinking consoles have to be walled gardens. Devs at Sony asked to be outside, always remember that.

- lets make less money
- lets become irrelevant in China
- lets entice PC players to become PSN subs with powerful gurl boss LGBT games

Brilliant stategy that is sure to be a hit with investors

 

[ozz ex machina]

So, instead of QUESTIONING the core premise, we accept the fallacy and operate according to false beliefs. WHY are games too expensive? They aren't any bigger or better than games last gen so there is a problem right there, a problem that nobody seems to care enough to tackle.

Of course, it's very easy to blame intangibles like "the market!" "the budgets" instead of discussing lack of proper management and competency, something the guy in the tweet is calling out.

Isn't it quite obvious that it's the fidelity and obsession with realism that is making games infinitely more expensive and complex to make? I'm sure some is mismanagement but if rockstar and ND could make games of their quality on a more frequent basis, they obviously fucking would.

 

[Killer8]

Ex-Bend employees sure do like to pontificate a lot while they're unemployed, huh.

 

[archangelmorph]

Preach!

I've never understood how creative outfits never seem to really understand how to make the most of talent.

Large stable companies with strong financial bases should be able to absorb the sunk cost of keeping their most talented people in-house and away from their competitors, instead of the constant cycle of hiring and layoffs.

Foster this institutionalised know-how and mindshare and you can do potentially wonderful things with it.

I get that production for AAA titles will ramp up and ramp down in cycles, but fuck me, there's potentially so much you can do with the residual talent left over after a major release that you don't need to keep people on the bench.

Running staggered AAA projects allows you to shuffle talent from one major IP to the next during big ramp up phases.

Separately, spare designers can incubate new design prototypes, trial, proof and evolve them so you have some very very very strong design and mechanical concepts to bring into your next big title, that's proven, tested and properly validated (but more importantly, innovative).

Spare engineers can:

- pair up with designers on innovation prototyping
- prototype and test new engine or tech enhancements (more tools in the toolbox means less to prove during production, meaning less time wasted, meaning more predictable production cycles and avoidance of 8-10yr plus dev hell; *cough* FF XV etc *cough*)
- improve tooling and production pipelines
- just play with new game ideas too
- develop and adopt engineering enhancements via AI-enablement (e.g. vibe coding)
- learn and build skills and competence (less bugs, higher quality code, more brains to throw at hard problems etc)
- seniors can offer "talent-for-hire" consultancy for other studios (for their company; not a freelance basis - direct revenue into the war chest)

Spare artists can:

- refine and enhance DCC processes, competence and approaches
- learn and skills build (higher quality artwork, accelerated learning from adjacency to very high talent seniors)
- develop and master process and pipeline enhancements via AI-enablement
- build and expand on post-launch content for existing games
- seniors can offer "talent-for-hire" consultancy for other studios

And I'm sure there are a ton more productive ways this talent can be leveraged to ultimately accrue value to the studio, in a way that only cements the chances that their next big game will be shit hot, but also the studio actually grows from "Jak & Daxter" tier to "The Last of Us" tier in very much the same way some of these greats did back in the day.

Hell if you really want to get serious about this; simply have a Valve-like policy of "in-between assigned projects, devs are free to work of whatever they like but all your IPs are belong to us; but you'll get a royalty on the first title and phat/thicc bonuses on subsequent franchise entries if you release something and it blows the fuck up, oh and you get to lead the next big franchise and sold into the market as the next big auteur rockstar…"

I mean, big tech ran like this for years and there's a reason why these are far and away the most profitable and successful multi billion dollar / trillion dollar companies in the world today.

Cultivate, train and incubate talent and you'll be duly rewarded.

Treat talent like fucking no-name fungible resources (where studio heads and publishers build their stock-n-trade from PE-tier McKinsey slop-think, where they care only about short-term shareholder profit maximisation and employees are seen as fucking Walmart-tier pawns) and you'll erode your fucking stock until you can't succeed (Rare), burn millions on failing projects you need to cancel (Microsoft), have to pay through the nose on the industries best and brightest and still fuck it up and fail to make a good game (The Initiative, Concord, Bungie, DA: Veilgaurd, etc).

There's so much wasted potential in this industry it's utterly crazy…

 

[Aenima]

Exactly. They are gonna b


- lets make less money
- lets become irrelevant in China
- lets entice PC players to become PSN subs with powerful gurl boss LGBT games

Brilliant stategy that is sure to be a hit with investors

I think ppl need to understand where Playstation makes more money from. (The pie charts might have shifted a bit since 2021, but should not be much different)

So Hardware + Digital Software from the PS Store + DLCs + Network Services = 90% of Playstation division Sales, and thats something Sony can only make by running a closed garden platform as they dont have a dedicated PS Store on PC where they could take that 30% cut from multiplatform games like Fifas, CODs, etc.

The more exclusives they let go, the less reasons ppl have to own a Playstation. The less money they will make. The 1st party sales they will make from other stores, will not offset the losses from ppl moving away from buying they next console.

From a business perspective, the dude from Bend is absolutelly correct in all his points. From a consumer perspective, is better for me if Sony keeps releasing games on PC as i already moved to PC going forward thanks to Sony PC ports.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I think ppl need to understand where Playstation makes more money from. (The pie charts might have shifted a bit since 2021, but should not be much different)

So Hardware + Digital Software from the PS Store + DLCs + Network Services = 90% of Playstation division Sales, and thats something Sony can only make by running a closed garden platform as they dont have a dedicated PS Store on PC where they could take that 30% cut from multiplatform games like Fifas, CODs, etc.

The more exclusives they let go, the less reasons ppl have to own a Playstation. The less money they will make. The 1st party sales they will make from other stores, will not offset the losses from ppl moving away from buying they next console.

From a business perspective, the dude from Bend is absolutelly correct in all his points. From a consumer perspective, is better for me if Sony keeps releasing games on PC as i already moved to PC going forward thanks to Sony PC ports.

Even at their best they are releasing a handful of games a year. Do you think PC gamers are going to abandon their PCs and pay to play online for that? Allow me to answer for you, no they are not.

You could say they will buy a console just for the exclusives and play all 3rd party on PC, (which is what I do) they are not really a valuable customer for Sony. Never gonna buy ps+. Never gonna buy a game that is available on PC. So all I'm giving you is the money for the console, which are either sold at a loss or on a razor thin margin. And I'm giving you 30% cut that you didn't give Valve. Now consider that the vast majority of PC gamers would rather just skip your game than buy a console for it.

Plus they have the opportunity to make money in markets where consoles are simply not popular like Asia. Notice all their China Hero games they are publishing are day 1 on PC.

There is a huge market of casuals who do not give a shit about things like performance and mods, and can't be bothered to build a PC. Consoles are inherently attractive because you just plug it into your TV and you're done. Sony is making more money than ever just collecting tax on shark cards and battle passes. The days of things like Halo and Uncharted being the best selling games are long gone.

What nobody ever brings up in these discussions and the real reason lots of gamers built PCs is Sony losing all their defacto Japanese exclusives last gen. They were getting a ton of banger exclusives before that without paying for them and that is now dead and buried.

 

[ProtoByte]

The days of things like Halo and Uncharted being the best selling games are long gone.

Disregarding that I already explained the answers to your rhetorical questions in a previous thread, this is just incorrect. Uncharted 4 sold more on PS4 alone than any other game in the series before, and many, many multiplats too.

If anything, the kind of exclusives Sony used to make would sell even higher now than they did last gen. Same as Nintendo.

From a business perspective, the dude from Bend is absolutelly correct in all his points. From a consumer perspective, is better for me if Sony keeps releasing games on PC as i already moved to PC going forward thanks to Sony PC ports.

And the question beyond that is whether or not new games made under the pretence of a PC port are going to be at or above a certain quality such that it's even relevant to gamers like you.

 

[Felessan]

- lets become irrelevant in China

Sorry, what?
Sony has most major gacha games on it's platform and biggest chinese single-player games. It's already a huge breakthrough as it allows PlayStation to enter competition with it's lucrative price-value proposition.
It was a huge win for Playstation when they risked to get Genshin on platform - it allowed PS to have a small but trojan horse in the uncharted market. And that market is like 95% gaas, 90% of them are local. It's not a market of Wukong as some may think. It's a market of Genshin and Chinese MMO.
Having local very popular game on your "value for money" box (compared to PC) helps a lot. TLOU/Spiderman or whatever SP games Sony might hold back from porting to PC will never have any effect on that market. TLOU on PC (to get awareness of PS platform) and Genshin on PS5 though might change decision when a question of upgrade arise.
And that market is huge, it reached roughly 80bn in revenue and China now exports roughly 20bn in game sales.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

OnLYkiDS

It's not "kids" its FAMILY. And that includes kids. Also, party with friends at home, with local co-op. That's a very clear brand positioning and it works.

Playstation portraits themselves as the "cool guy", Nintendo as the "family man" and "better with friends".

So, their strategies are different, even if there's a big overlap in audiences that buy games of both brands. You can't apply the core formula of one to the other. Growing legacy IPs is an universal winning formula, but it's easier said than done.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Disregarding that I already explained the answers to your rhetorical questions in a previous thread, this is just incorrect. Uncharted 4 sold more on PS4 alone than any other game in the series before, and many, many multiplats too.

If anything, the kind of exclusives Sony used to make would sell even higher now than they did last gen. Same as Nintendo.


And the question beyond that is whether or not new games made under the pretence of a PC port are going to be at or above a certain quality such that it's even relevant to gamers like you.

Uncharted 4 didn't even make the top 10 grossing games the year it was released, which was 9 years ago and a very different market according to wiki.

Sony IP are just not as popular as Nintendo. Pokemon is the most popular IP in the world and is a permanent Nintendo exclusive. Mario Kart, Smash, Mario, Animal Crossing, etc are genuine evergreens that chart for years and years.

I honestly don't care if Sony never ports another game, and have only bought Returnal and Ghost of Sushi on Steam. I'm just saying it's going to be a very difficult sell to investors.

Sorry, what?
Sony has most major gacha games on it's platform and biggest chinese single-player games. It's already a huge breakthrough as it allows PlayStation to enter competition with it's lucrative price-value proposition.
It was a huge win for Playstation when they risked to get Genshin on platform - it allowed PS to have a small but trojan horse in the uncharted market. And that market is like 95% gaas, 90% of them are local. It's not a market of Wukong as some may think. It's a market of Genshin and Chinese MMO.
Having local very popular game on your "value for money" box (compared to PC) helps a lot. TLOU/Spiderman or whatever SP games Sony might hold back from porting to PC will never have any effect on that market. TLOU on PC (to get awareness of PS platform) and Genshin on PS5 though might change decision when a question of upgrade arise.
And that market is huge, it reached roughly 80bn in revenue and China now exports roughly 20bn in game sales.

Wukong selling 20M PC copies in China tells you there are at least 20M gamers there with PCs strong enough to run a very demanding game. PC and mobile are entrenched there. It's like EGS desperately trying to claw market share from Steam. They give games away for free and nobody cares. Customer acquisition costs will be astronomical. Or they could do what they are already doing and port their games. Again I don't see why they would stop except a bunch of crytal ball gazing hypotheticals that have not come to pass in the 5 years since they started. The only people upset are 40 year olds who have aged out of being their target demographic. Zoomers do not give a fuck about exclusives and will play games with on screen controls on a fucking iPad and pay out the ass for it.

 

[Gojiira]

I agree 100%.

And let me just add, remove woke agenda particularly twisted gender ideology and twisted DEI on Sony PS games. Spider man 2 and TLOU 2 are so woke infested and sadly it also looks like Intergalactic and GOY will be the same.

Nothing in GOY looks woke at all, did you not watch the fucking gameplay reveal?

 

[JayK47]

It was my understanding that they make more money from games than console sales. Console sales were almost break even. So they want you to buy a console to mostly buy more games. Having exclusives may convince you to buy a console, and then you buy more games for that console and it benefits them. But if most gamers also have PCs, then why not sell a PC version at some point as well and double dip or get a new sale? I think timed exclusives work well for Xbox and Sony.

Nintendo is not really the same situation as they have long since lost the hardware spec battle and have gone down the road to offering cartoon games on a unique "console" and they will likely never release their games on any other system. I have almost 100% moved away from being interested in Nintendo games. The only reason I would buy another Nintendo console is for my kids to fight over.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Nothing in GOY looks woke at all, did you not watch the fucking gameplay reveal?

I don't even know what "twisted DEI" means, fucking demented.
I imagine that "woke infested" means showing something apart from homoerotic muscular space marines being all manly and killing shit in their pickups.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Wukong selling 20M PC copies in China tells you there are at least 20M gamers there with PCs strong enough to run a very demanding game. PC and mobile are entrenched there. It's like EGS desperately trying to claw market share from Steam. They give games away for free and nobody cares. Customer acquisition costs will be astronomical. Or they could do what they are already doing and port their games. Again I don't see why they would stop except a bunch of crytal ball gazing hypotheticals that have not come to pass in the 5 years since they started. The only people upset are 40 year olds who have aged out of being their target demographic. Zoomers do not give a fuck about exclusives and will play games with on screen controls on a fucking iPad and pay out the ass for it.

Exactly.

Problem is people have a narrow view on life and business. When it comes to game playing, most gamers dont even think of China. Same with movie watchers looking at only domestic sales and ignoring international results. They think everything is USA USA USA. They probably think everyone in China is dirt poor working in rice fields and restaurants, and nobody is rich enough to have a good car, home or PC.

Unless Sony wants to make regional games like a big consumers good company making lots of global brands and also distinct regional brands nobody in other countries would ever know about, big games from big companies will try to sell what they got to as many people as possible. They got the advantage of just localizing it with language adjustments and digitally distribute it. Dont even need physical copies. Just have the server downloads ready.

And if Sony doesnt want to make Asian region specific console or PC games, and PC gaming in China is way bigger than console gaming, then Sony will make games on PC so everyone in any county can buy.

Same goes for mobile. Sony hasnt gotten into that (aside from that huge Grand Fate game run by their music division some reason), but they did buy that Neon Koi mobile studio years ago. For whatever reason it got shut down with no games launched so they didnt have anything good to sell. But if they did, they'd launch it with language settings and go global.

 

[kaizenkko]

Even at their best they are releasing a handful of games a year. Do you think PC gamers are going to abandon their PCs and pay to play online for that? Allow me to answer for you, no they are not.

You could say they will buy a console just for the exclusives and play all 3rd party on PC, (which is what I do) they are not really a valuable customer for Sony. Never gonna buy ps+. Never gonna buy a game that is available on PC. So all I'm giving you is the money for the console, which are either sold at a loss or on a razor thin margin. And I'm giving you 30% cut that you didn't give Valve. Now consider that the vast majority of PC gamers would rather just skip your game than buy a console for it.

Plus they have the opportunity to make money in markets where consoles are simply not popular like Asia. Notice all their China Hero games they are publishing are day 1 on PC.

There is a huge market of casuals who do not give a shit about things like performance and mods, and can't be bothered to build a PC. Consoles are inherently attractive because you just plug it into your TV and you're done. Sony is making more money than ever just collecting tax on shark cards and battle passes. The days of things like Halo and Uncharted being the best selling games are long gone.

What nobody ever brings up in these discussions and the real reason lots of gamers built PCs is Sony losing all their defacto Japanese exclusives last gen. They were getting a ton of banger exclusives before that without paying for them and that is now dead and buried.

Give up.

They won't agree with what you're saying, because the people who can't see what you're clearly explaining are the ones who feel personally "attacked" by the fact that Sony no longer has true exclusives. People are desperately trying to convince themselves that Sony is wrong for releasing games on PC.

 

[Fluffytheterrible]

Keep Playstation games off the PC! Keep them exclusive!!!