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[TankRizzo]

I worked for 3 years in a power plant on salary. That shit sucked. The same paycheck every last and 15th of the month while pulling 70-75 hour weeks. Took a toll and enough was enough. Moved companies and went for hourly. My life and wallet thank me.

 

[desu]

reading some stuff in here it sounds like a clash between european worker rights and US worker rights.. how anyone can find this acceptable is beyond me.

Glad I am not the only one!

 

[Soul of the Beast]

As a fan this hurts, a lot.
Why EA

 

[johancruijff]

reading some stuff in here it sounds like a clash between european worker rights and US worker rights.. how anyone can find this acceptable is beyond me.

definitely

if my boss ever tells me to not stop for lunch i'll laugh my ass off

 

[Kaako]

reading some stuff in here it sounds like a clash between european worker rights and US worker rights.. how anyone can find this acceptable is beyond me.

US worker rights in this country are definitely fucked. And if this thread is any indication, many are willing to put up with it because they have to make ends meet. Because the system got them by the balls, because that's "life."
If that's "life" then I'd rather be fucking dead. Which is exactly how I felt inside working long ass hours with shit benefits at the biggest data center provider in the world for a good number of years. The system is so fucked here.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

IMO crunch happens a lot in some industries, but it's a symptom of poor planning or unrealistic expectations, and shouldn't be considered normal. In software at least, it happens because no project ever goes perfectly according to plan, so a week or two of crunch for the departments that usually get pressed the hardest by deadlines (usually dev and QA) is fairly common. But it's never welcome, and planners should be working on ways to minimize it next time around. Some departments are also much more removed from deadlines, and those typically don't experience crunch. I work in documentation and I rarely work overtime at all.

The problem is when people try to turn crunch time into the new norm. Software places might get a few weeks of everyone working crunch hours, but there are a lot of stories of game dev studios trying to make crunch a normal thing, with crunch hours starting very early in development and/or lasting months or years, which is INSANE. In this case, the guy's post said that Bioware was trying to rename crunch to something else, which is probably another attempt at normalizing something that is supposed to be a short symptom of poor planning and not something that any employee signs up to do all the time.

In software (not game dev),I once knew a guy in QA who had to cancel his Christmas vacation plans (I think he had a trip planned and everything) to work crazy hours because of some ridiculously unrealistic deadlines given way in advance by the higher-ups. So that sucked. Even worse was when those deadlines were then pushed back because things just weren't ready, so with the slightly more relaxed schedule, the guy is free to at least stop crunching for the time being, right?

Nope. Some higher-up actually suggested that the guy work crunch time through Christmas anyway, for no reason other than to "maintain momentum." What the fuck is that bullshit?

Some higher-ups at that company had a tendency to plan overly aggressive deadlines and/or dump stupid amounts of work out of their ass on employees right before vacation times. One guy had a pattern of literally sending random ass emails on Fridays from their fucking cottage that instantly made people have to drop/throw out everything they were working on, cancel vacation plans that had been planned for months in advance, and work ridiculous hours over holidays.

That's not a normal part of life. That's people being shitty.

.

 

[Alter_Fridge]

As a fan this hurts, a lot.
Why EA

Why did they use pre rendered footage and let us think it was in game?

 

[Jaguar Victory]

reading some stuff in here it sounds like a clash between european worker rights and US worker rights.. how anyone can find this acceptable is beyond me.

Canada US now?

Corporate structure and art creation is a tenuous mix for sure. It is pretty clear there were some communication issues between the two sites. As a manager in corporate America myself the Performance Improvement Plan piece struck me as sour grapes. What some people don't realize is how useless some of their co-workers are. They don't see the extent of it until they have to manage a team themselves.

 

[thepenguin55]

Hey guys - I can't say one way or another how much of this is true, but if you look hard enough on Glassdoor you can find reviews like this for ANY company, in gaming or elsewhere. There are Glassdoor reviews of my company, for example, that don't reflect my experiences at all. Please don't treat this as anything but what it is: a single disgruntled person's account.

That's not to say there isn't a bigger story here, of course...

I get what you're saying but there's technically two negative reviews. One from 2015 from a current Edmonton employee who says the same kind of stuff about Edmonton's higher ups the other review did. It also mentions how they're hemorrhaging talent. I get that this stuff should be taken with a grain of salt but it's hard to shake the feeling that something stinks over at BioWare.

 

[TankRizzo]

US worker rights in this country are definitely fucked. And if this thread is any indication, many are willing to put up with it because they have to make ends meet. Because the system got them by the balls, because that's "life."
If that's "life" then I'd rather be fucking dead. Which is exactly how I felt inside working long ass hours with shit benefits at the biggest data center provider in the world for a good number of years. The system is so fucked here.

so what are you doing for work? Living off the fat of the land?

 

[LordBaztion]

will this affect directly Dragon Age 4's development or are separate teams?

 

[thepenguin55]

will this affect directly Dragon Age 4's development or are separate teams?

I think Edmonton is working on a new IP though I guess Montreal could eventually work on a new Dragon Age.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Hey guys - I can't say one way or another how much of this is true, but if you look hard enough on Glassdoor you can find reviews like this for ANY company, in gaming or elsewhere. There are Glassdoor reviews of my company, for example, that don't reflect my experiences at all. Please don't treat this as anything but what it is: a single disgruntled person's account.

That's not to say there isn't a bigger story here, of course...

Great post Jason - and I agree with a lot of the people saying 30 minute lunch breaks aren't a big deal: I've had plenty of jobs where that's a fine amount of time for lunch.

Here in New Zealand, 30 mins is the norm for non-corporate high scale jobs, we work too much down here too though...so there's that :/

 

[Veritigo_X]

Great post Jason - and I agree with a lot of the people saying 30 minute lunch breaks aren't a big deal: I've had plenty of jobs where that's a fine amount of time for lunch.

Here in New Zealand, 30 mins is the norm for non-corporate high scale jobs, we work too much down here too though...so there's that :/

You work too much, only get 30 minute breaks, and you're okay with that?

:/ indeed

 

[HeatBoost]

I've never worked anywhere you don't get an hour of (unpaid) lunch

Seems like a drag to only get a half hour, even if you get paid for it.

 

[Wulfram]

I think Edmonton is working on a new IP though I guess Montreal could eventually work on a new Dragon Age.

Edmonton has usually had two teams.

Dragon Age still apparently has its executive producer, creative director, head writer etc in Edmonton. Though a while back it seemed like the bulk of the writing team had moved off to other projects so I don't know if they're in full production of the next one yet.

 

[samn]

Great post Jason - and I agree with a lot of the people saying 30 minute lunch breaks aren't a big deal: I've had plenty of jobs where that's a fine amount of time for lunch.

Here in New Zealand, 30 mins is the norm for non-corporate high scale jobs, we work too much down here too though...so there's that :/

I work in the highly unionised UK public sector and we only get 30 min lunch break. It's fine. I'd rather have a shorter break than sit around bored for an hour and go home half an hour later. (7.5 hour days)

 

[elyetis]

I was thinking exactly the same while reading some comments lol seriously...

You and me both.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Canada US now?

Corporate structure and art creation is a tenuous mix for sure. It is pretty clear there were some communication issues between the two sites. As a manager in corporate America myself the Performance Improvement Plan piece struck me as sour grapes. What some people don't realize is how useless some of their co-workers are. They don't see the extent of it until they have to manage a team themselves.

This is very true, there are lots of bad employees. Not saying it happened here but there are loads of people that have deluded themselves into thinking they are doing great when they really aren't. When you are in a position to really judge peoples work it becomes clear fairly fast too.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

This gets me sad

 

[calavera_jo]

Every time we talk about game industry overtime. This pos article pops in my mind http://venturebeat.com/2016/04/16/game-developers-must-avoid-the-wage-slave-attitude/

 

[VincentMatts]

Every time we talk about game industry overtime. This pos article pops in my mind http://venturebeat.com/2016/04/16/game-developers-must-avoid-the-wage-slave-attitude/

I didnt read that article, but i can tell you that when i worked in the industry, overtime was often and when you didnt do it all the time, people tend to look down on you. Its kind of an unwritten rule that youre expected to do it and it sucks. Especially if youre on a salary.

i dont mind 'crunch times' but when its all the time, theres problems. And in video games, it was way too often for my liking.

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

will this affect directly Dragon Age 4's development or are separate teams?

Edmonton is currently working the new IP and an unannounced project which is most certainly DA4.

 

[calavera_jo]

I didnt read that article, but i can tell you that when i worked in the industry, overtime was often and when you didnt do it all the time, people tend to look down on you. Its kind of an unwritten rule that youre expected to do it and it sucks. Especially if youre on a salary.

i dont mind 'crunch times' but when its all the time, theres problems. And in video games, it was way too often for my liking.

I know. I'm in the industry right now.

I absolutely loathe when you're expected to do OT
because that's the way our fathers did before us
because it's the way it is today
because it's the way it will always be
Amen ™

Some people are too zealous about this shit

 

[fabricated backlash]

I didnt read that article, but i can tell you that when i worked in the industry, overtime was often and when you didnt do it all the time, people tend to look down on you. Its kind of an unwritten rule that youre expected to do it and it sucks. Especially if youre on a salary.

i dont mind 'crunch times' but when its all the time, theres problems. And in video games, it was way too often for my liking.

The best dungeon masters are coworkers, who enforce a culture of exploitation.

 

[Some Nobody]

Being in an abusive or generally negative work environment is terrible.

No doubt about that.

I think at this point I'm just tired of seeing these topics come up over and over on a forum where so many people are young and haven't entered the work force (in any sort of professional or at least post graduate capacity) and have no concept of the difficulty the average person can face at any job.

People crying about "crunch" is the most annoying aspect.

Yes, every 2-3 years (or longer) you have to suffer for a few months.

Give me a fucking break.

Game developers based on stories like these seem like the biggest whiners I've seen in any industry.

Go cry about a 30 minute lunch break when millions of people regularly eat lunch at their desks every single day. Or the people working in hospitals that are on 36-48 shifts where they can't go home. Or even the dude bros in finance that work 12-14 hours days for years.

This is the real world kids. Sorry if you assumed you were going to go out and have an amazing fun time at the office every single day.

If you're not happy, leave and find some place new.

This trash feels like it comes straight out of the "By Your Own Bootstraps, Vol. 1" collection. Did you write it to the Star Spangled Banner, or America the Beautiful?

The fight for the eight hour work day was won years ago, and not only did we apparently lose it again, people are fighting to keep it gone and call you childish or weak for wanting it back. Ugh. I hope corporate apologists at least get a pat on the back for reinforcing all this shit.

 

[Lunarwhale]

a lot of you are weirdly proud of working for really shitty companies with no concept of workers' rights or proper project management

 

[Davide]

But now that I've actually seen the good "Mass Effect" that we'll never get, I'm done.

I can't deal with this as the norm :

Yeah same here. And this was my favourite franchise 2010-2012.

The graphics legitimately look worse than the OT. This is one of the worst downgrades I've ever seen.

 

[VincentMatts]

Yeah same here. And this was my favourite franchise 2010-2012.

Theres nothing worse than seeing your favorite franchise change for the worse and be helpless to do anything about it. Fucking sucks.

 

[link2021]

this suck i played like 3 hr. don't even got the feeling to play again went back to zelda #NOTMYMASSEFFECT hopefully i can get back too it

 

[KingParappa]

This trash feels like it comes straight out of the "By Your Own Bootstraps, Vol. 1" collection. Did you write it to the Star Spangled Banner, or America the Beautiful?

The fight for the eight hour work day was won years ago, and not only did we apparently lose it again, people are fighting to keep it gone and call you childish or weak for wanting it back. Ugh. I hope corporate apologists at least get a pat on the back for reinforcing all this shit.

Then he talked about people in the hospitals who do long shifts. He knows they get days at a time off?

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Question. Do workers get overtime pay for crunch periods?

 

[Diablohead]

Why did they use pre rendered footage and let us think it was in game?

I don't think it was fully pre rendered, at some point the game probably looked like that, a good example is what happened to sonic boom on wii u it went from a lush looking game to something extremely basic and bland.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Question. Do workers get overtime pay for crunch periods?

Typically they are salaried, so no.

 

[Lunarwhale]

Question. Do workers get overtime pay for crunch periods?

Good companies will compensate employees with vacation time or bonus pay, even if they are salaried, but it's not a guarantee and seems uncommon in the game industry.

 

[JaseMath]

Yeah I was trying to address the change in lighting. Everything just ends up looking flat:

Literally thought the right shot was test footage. That's in-game? What?

 

[RulkezX]

I work in the highly unionised UK public sector and we only get 30 min lunch break. It's fine. I'd rather have a shorter break than sit around bored for an hour and go home half an hour later. (7.5 hour days)

Same more or less.

10m break at 9:50
30m break at 12:30

It's plenty really.

 

[Rarius]

The thing I don't understand about that above shot is that... rain and stuff is -in- the game. Like it's just turned off randomly. It feels like the game is legit missing certain shaders, would explain why the eyes look so weird, or some scenes just aren't shaded.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Being in an abusive or generally negative work environment is terrible.

No doubt about that.

I think at this point I'm just tired of seeing these topics come up over and over on a forum where so many people are young and haven't entered the work force (in any sort of professional or at least post graduate capacity) and have no concept of the difficulty the average person can face at any job.

People crying about "crunch" is the most annoying aspect.

Yes, every 2-3 years (or longer) you have to suffer for a few months.

Give me a fucking break.

Game developers based on stories like these seem like the biggest whiners I've seen in any industry.

Go cry about a 30 minute lunch break when millions of people regularly eat lunch at their desks every single day. Or the people working in hospitals that are on 36-48 shifts where they can't go home. Or even the dude bros in finance that work 12-14 hours days for years.

This is the real world kids. Sorry if you assumed you were going to go out and have an amazing fun time at the office every single day.

If you're not happy, leave and find some place new.

I'd like higher ups that are able to set realistic goals for their workers and not burn them out to where they never want to work in the industry again. Sorry, it's the biggest reason I was turned off to game development.

 

[Brockxz]

Question. Do workers get overtime pay for crunch periods?

I get always overtime pay. It is dictated by law in my country. Also I can have extra vacation time. So i really don't mind overtime work.

 

[ErMerGerd]

Thank god Edmonton seems to still be handling Dragon Age. Don't want this shit happen to another of my favorite rpg franchises.

 

[Akuun]

Question. Do workers get overtime pay for crunch periods?

Typically no.

The most common thing I've seen (if anything is given at all) is being given compensation time off for overtime. The idea is that for the hours you worked overtime, you can take that time off some other time.

That sounds okay, but that's just the idea. In practice, it usually doesn't work in the worker's favor. The employer sometimes weasels out of this agreement by giving you so much work that you can't take time off without falling behind anyway. Another way for the employer to weasel out of this is by being deliberately vague to you by saying something like "okay, feel free to take whatever time off you need for doing this." That passive-aggressively pressures you to take less time than you worked for fear of looking lazy or overstepping your bounds.

Not to mention that an hour working whenever-the-fuck-your-employer-asks-regardless-of-what-you-were-doing should be compensated for more than working a regular hour at work. So you're pretty much just fucked either way.

 

[ViviOggi]

reading some stuff in here it sounds like a clash between european worker rights and US worker rights.. how anyone can find this acceptable is beyond me.

🤔

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Hey guys - I can't say one way or another how much of this is true, but if you look hard enough on Glassdoor you can find reviews like this for ANY company, in gaming or elsewhere. There are Glassdoor reviews of my company, for example, that don't reflect my experiences at all. Please don't treat this as anything but what it is: a single disgruntled person's account.

That's not to say there isn't a bigger story here, of course...

Didn't Gawker have a class-action suit filed against them for not paying a large amount of interns? Why did you think this is a germane example?

 

[Nezacant]

Didn't Gawker have a class-action suit filed against them for not paying a large amount of interns? Why did you think this is a germane example?

Gawker won that case tho...

EDIT: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/gawker-beats-lawsuit-unpaid-internships-879285

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Gawker won that case tho...

EDIT: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/gawker-beats-lawsuit-unpaid-internships-879285

Winning a case doesn't mean they were in the right, something I know Gawker also feels.

 

[jschreier]

Didn't Gawker have a class-action suit filed against them for not paying a large amount of interns? Why did you think this is a germane example?

In like 2010? Dunno how that's relevant at all. It was before my time and has nothing to do with Glassdoor/workplace treatment. Besides, all media companies used to do unpaid internships. (I did several in college.) Not that it's a justifiable practice, but interns went into it knowing they weren't getting paid.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Is the OP using a disgruntled employee review in glassdoor to make assumptions about MEA development?

 

[Rozart]

Edmonton has usually had two teams.

Dragon Age still apparently has its executive producer, creative director, head writer etc in Edmonton. Though a while back it seemed like the bulk of the writing team had moved off to other projects so I don't know if they're in full production of the next one yet.

I thought it was only David Gaider who left the team?

 

[Raging Spaniard]

This sounds bad and is bad, but honestly its probably not the key reason why the game is deficient. RDR 2 is going to be incredible and I know for a fact that the working conditions are similar to this.

Hell, most AAA console studios are full of horror stories that rival this. Its a known thing in the industry and it sucks (why do you think so many flocked to mobile or indie development?)