• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Formula 1 - Abu Dhabi GP 2016 |OT| No matter who wins, the race will end in fireworks

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Mohonky said:
This shit still?

Constructors title decided. Toto Wolff is an absolute control freak. Of course he wants Merc 1 -2, but there was a WDC title at stake also. Name ONE driver that wouldn't have done what Hamilton had done.
Click to expand...

I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
 
D

DD

Member
Aiii said:
I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
Click to expand...

What could be the consequence?

Winning a title for Mercedes. What a tragedy.
 
N

norinrad

Member
Aiii said:
I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
Click to expand...

We should all be robots. If our bosses ask us to jump, we need to ask them how high and where to land. After that we should also go the extra mile by bringing their groceries home and cleaning their boots too. lol
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
DD said:
What could be the consequence?

Winning a title for Mercedes. What a tragedy.
Click to expand...

Wolff and Lauda have said they might need to rethink the rules for next year. You think they're going to let Hamilton and Rosberg do whatever they want when Red Bull is in contention for the title?
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
Aiii said:
I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
Click to expand...

Context, do you get it?
 
M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
DD said:
Toto really is a dislikable character, isn't he?
Click to expand...
Toto is ruthless, he would kill for success. And you probably need someone like him in that position.

I do want to see him lose for a bit, though. Give me a big surprise next year, please.
 
D

DD

Member
Zeknurn said:
Wolff and Lauda have said they might need to rethink the rules for next year. You think they're going to let Hamilton and Rosberg do whatever they want when Red Bull is in contention for the title?
Click to expand...

Well, one thing is McLaren 2007. But Mercedes 2016... Come on! =P


mnz said:
Toto is ruthless, he would kill for success. And you probably need someone like him in that position.

I do want to see him lose for a bit, though. Give me a big surprise next year, please.
Click to expand...

And that's precisely why I dislike him. =B
 
D

DD

Member
I don't even like Hamilton, to be honest. But this isn't wall street. F1 is entertainment after all. Let the drivers entertain us, or else they could complain for the rest of the lives about poor attendance and TV numbers.
 
J

Joni

Member
Aiii said:
I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
Click to expand...

His boss issued an order that amounted to match-fixing. Mercedes was trying to manipulate the outcome of the race.
Hamilton should try the courts to get his boss suspended from the sport if he gets punished.
http://ec.europa.eu/sport/library/studies/study-sports-fraud-final-version_en.pdf
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Joni said:
Sport law doesn't overrule actual law. The rule simply hasn't been challenged in the courts.
Click to expand...

There's no rule to challenge. It's a team sport.

They didn't even give him an order to give up a spot. Just to not drag his feet on purpose to try and ruin Rosberg's chances.
 
J

Joni

Member
Aiii said:
There's no rule to challenge. It's a team sport.
Click to expand...

Yet the title goes to one racer and racers aren't allowed to help each other. It is not a team sport. And tampering with the result is the definition of matchfixing.
I hope Hamilton is mad enough after being punished to try something like this. It could make the racing more fun again.
 
S

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
J

Joni

Member
Solaire of Astora said:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Toto ordering an uncharacteristically slow Lewis to go faster is match fixing?
Click to expand...

If they try to punish him for that, yes, he should try that defense. They're doing their best to bore us to death. Hamilton made sure at least this race was entertaining.
 
S

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
Joni said:
If they try to punish him for that, yes, he should try that defense. They're doing their best to bore us to death. Hamilton made sure at least this race was entertaining.
Click to expand...

Match fixing? I can't even... That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've read online in a long time.

Tell you what, if Lewis does try to take them to court, they could always try to fire him and play the "Well, he's just too slow nowadays" line.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Lol, I didn't watch a single race this season and I can still tell you for a fact that nothing is going to happen to Hamilton. He will get a "talking to" and they will say all is fine. Mercedes really doesn't care if a driver doesn't follow orders as long as they continue to win. They have made that clear by their actions for several seasons now. It's all talk. Wolfe won't do shit.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Mohonky said:
You think if Susie was on track in Hamiltons position he would have told her to speed up?
Click to expand...

The joke here is that you think Susie would ever have been leading a race, even in a Merc.

Hypothetically speaking, he'd probably tell her to pull over since I don't think driving under heavy G-forces would be great for the baby.
 
M

malyce

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Ferrari wanted Riccardo.. so


Vettel > Mercedes >> HAM > Redbull >> RIC > Ferrari

Ted's Notebook had an interesting part.. let me dig it out

EDIT: got taken down..

Basically he was saying that after Hamilton and Rosberg crash Hamilton said he's out and won't drive for the team. That's why Mercedes signed a 2 year contract with Rosberg instead of the planned 1 year extension. Things are not good at all between Hamilton and his team, so if next year the car is not the fastest, I can easily see him jump ship and any team would take him
Click to expand...

Funny things is, if Redbull does come to Australia with a race winner, Merc will be the one needing Hamilton and not the other way around. That was the whole reason Merc poached him the first place. You think Nico will be able to slug it out with RIC or VES over a season in an equally fast car?

And Fuck Toto and Merc. Why swap the Mechanics around? The only reason he was in a position where he felt he needed to do everything in his power to win is because of the car's unreliability.

On a different note: After watching the post-race conference I'm really happy for Nico. You can tell that beating Lewis was a burden lifted off his shoulders. He really needed that mentally. They've been racing for the better part of 2 decades and Lewis has just always managed to get the better of him. Though he may not have race craft that rivals HAM/ALO/RIC he's still a great driver. Clearly not a Webber or a Trash.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Joni said:
His boss issued an order that amounted to match-fixing. Mercedes was trying to manipulate the outcome of the race.
Hamilton should try the courts to get his boss suspended from the sport if he gets punished.
http://ec.europa.eu/sport/library/studies/study-sports-fraud-final-version_en.pdf
Click to expand...

This has to be the most ridiculous post in the entire thread. Quite an achievement given the competition.

Have you even read the document you're quoting, or was it just the first thing you found on Google?

The definition of match-fixing provided by the Australian Sport Minister (Sport and Recreation Ministers’ Council Communiqué 2011) is even more complete: “Match-fixing involves the manipulation of an outcome or contingency by competitors, teams, sports agents, support staff, referees and officials and venue staff. Such conduct includes:

a. the deliberate fixing of the result of a contest, or of an occurrence within the contest, or of a points spread;
b. deliberate underperformance;
c. withdrawal (tanking);
d. an official’s deliberate misapplication of the rules of the contest;
e. interference with the play or playing surfaces by venue staff; and
f. abuse of insider information to support a bet placed by any of the above or placed by a gambler who has recruited such people to manipulate an outcome or contingency”.
Click to expand...

Given your logic, Mercedes could sue Hamilton for "match-fixing", lol.

There is an obvious reason why Hamilton would not be sued for "deliberate underperformance", or why the team would not be sued for "manipulating" the race: both team and drivers are participating in the sport. Both acted according to the rules and with the clear goal to maximize their outcome of the race.
 
Mastah

Mastah

Member
F1 Broadcasting ‏@f1broadcasting 6m6 minutes ago

UK: The #AbuDhabiGP peaked with 4.99m (38.3%) at 14:35 across @C4F1 and @SkySportsF1 yesterday. @overnightstv
Click to expand...

Wow. That's a massive drop:

2014 - 7.9m
2012 - 7.5m
2010 - 7.2m
2008 - 12.5m
2007 - 10.4m
2006 - 6.4m
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Shirow said:
I hope not! I just started watching this year and I'm loving it. If it weren't for the fact that the races are at 8 am on Sunday (eastern us), I would watch more but can't.
Click to expand...

Sport is fine. UK ratings come and go with UK drivers chances. It's the same everywhere.

Ratings are up elsewhere, I'm sure the USA is doing much better, Dutch ratings are through the roof with Max coming in.

Liberty Media just bought the thing, expect good things from them.
 
P

| Praxis |

Banned
Staab said:
Yeowtch !!!
Despite a title showdown with undecided result until the end of the race and Hamilton (the UK's holy child) vying for the title ?

That's terrible!
Click to expand...

Not sure where you get that idea? Don't think I know one person in real life that wants the guy to win.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
malyce said:
Funny things is, if Redbull does come to Australia with a race winner, Merc will be the one needing Hamilton and not the other way around. That was the whole reason Merc poached him the first place. You think Nico will be able to slug it out with RIC or VES over a season in an equally fast car?

And Fuck Toto and Merc. Why swap the Mechanics around? The only reason he was in a position where he felt he needed to do everything in his power to win is because of the car's unreliability.
Click to expand...

They can do fine without him. He isn't irreplaceable and he knows it, that's why he didn't quit in the end.

Hamilton has no one to blame but himself for this year.
He had two strings of bad performances and his response to them was to have a meltdown both times.
 
M

M52B28

Banned
Peter Ian Staker said:
They can do fine without him. He isn't irreplaceable and he knows it, that's why he didn't quit in the end.

Hamilton has no one to blame but himself for this year.
He had two strings of bad performances and his response to them was to have a meltdown both times.
Click to expand...
Quite foolish to say this.

Why should Hamilton blame himself for his team's shortcomings?
 
M

malyce

Member
Peter Ian Staker said:
They can do fine without him. He isn't irreplaceable and he knows it, that's why he didn't quit in the end.

Hamilton has no one to blame but himself for this year.
He had two strings of bad performances and his response to them was to have a meltdown both times.
Click to expand...
Some of the responses in this thread is truly mind boggling.

Like fuck facts, let's just argue on emotions.

Let the hate out if it makes you all feel better.
 
J

Joni

Member
ElTorro said:
This has to be the most ridiculous post in the entire thread. Quite an achievement given the competition.

Have you even read the document you're quoting, or was it just the first thing you found on Google?



Given your logic, Mercedes could sue Hamilton for "match-fixing", lol.

There is an obvious reason why Hamilton would not be sued for "deliberate underperformance", or why the team would not be sued for "manipulating" the race: both team and drivers are participating in the sport. Both acted according to the rules and with the clear goal to maximize their outcome of the race.
Click to expand...

You do realize you picked the quote by an Australian minister in a EU document, and that point A would cover this while B would not be applicable. Nobody managed that to pass Hamilton. The sport has gotten ridiculously boring because of stuff like Toto is doing, so it needs to go if this sport wants to survive.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Joni said:
You do realize you picked the quote by an Australian minister in a EU document, and that point A would cover this while B would not be applicable. Nobody managed that to pass Hamilton. The sport has gotten ridiculously boring because of stuff like Toto is doing, so it needs to go if this sport wants to survive.
Click to expand...

That quote is part of the very definition of "match-fixing" that the document is giving. If you'd read your own sources before posting them, you would know that.
 
M

mangochutney

Member
Aiii said:
I do not care if Hamilton's actions can be explained and whether or not other drivers or anyone else in the world would have done the same.

His boss gave him an order. He ignored it. There's consequences to that. Lewis knew there were going to be and just going "oh well, good on you lad, go on have your fun" is not an option for Mercedes becauses it only tells your driver, "well next time you get an instruction, go ahead and ignore it because there won't be any consequences when you do anyways."

Done. Stop dragging all kinds of nonsense into it. He got an order, he ignored it, there's consequences.
Click to expand...
FIA orders you to park your car in the pit lane at the end of the race.

I guess we should strip Nico of the title for failing to comply with those orders.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
duckroll said:
Lol, I didn't watch a single race this season and I can still tell you for a fact that nothing is going to happen to Hamilton. He will get a "talking to" and they will say all is fine. Mercedes really doesn't care if a driver doesn't follow orders as long as they continue to win. They have made that clear by their actions for several seasons now. It's all talk. Wolfe won't do shit.
Click to expand...

This.

Also Mercedes must realise by now that the watching public mostly enjoyed the show that was put on, providing a relatively tense end to a season, and kept the cameras on their cars most of the time which is good for them and for sponsors.
 
J

Joni

Member
ElTorro said:
That quote is part of the very definition of "match-fixing" that the document is giving. If you'd read your own sources before posting them, you would know that.
Click to expand...

That quote is one of the examples they give, like this one.

Gorse and Chadwick adopt a broader approach, defining sport corruption as “any illegal , immoral or unethical activity that attempts to deliberately distort the result of a sporting contest (or any element of it) for the personal material gain of one or more parties involved in that activity” (Gorse and Chadwick 2011).
Click to expand...
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Joni said:
That quote is one of the examples they give, like this one.
Click to expand...

Again, the actions by the team are allowed by the sport's regulation. Basic logic tells us that doing what the rules of a sport explicitly allow does not qualify as a "distortion" of the sport.

Are you even aware that you did not manage to cite European law?
 
S

Space Marine

Neo Member
Clearly we would have all enjoyed this race far more if Hamilton coasted to victory in first place, and Rosberg coasted home in second, as that's all he had to do.



Hamilton drove smoothly and cleanly, albeit at a snail's pace. I've seen far worse in championship battles, and he could have done far worse. What this actually achieved was shining a huge spotlight on major issues with the sport, hopefully to be solved next year. We repeatedly had several cars lined up, all going several seconds too slowly, all incapable of passing each other. It looked absolutely pathetic.

The team trying to order their drivers around in this race was absurd, and if it happened a decade or so ago, would be pointed at as one of the reasons to ban team orders altogether. One of their drivers was going to win the championship whatever happened, and they had already won the constructor's championship. The race was clearly in the bag too.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
hamchan said:
Wait what?! Of course it's the team's fault when the car fails! Providing a fast and reliable car in the first place is pretty much the majority of the team's responsibility.
Click to expand...
They provided that as best they could but they can't guarantee that both cars will have the same reliability.
This is complex and expensive engineering with tight tolerances and high stresses, shit fails in ways you couldn't foresee.
It's not like they skimped on maintaining his car because they liked Nico more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Formula One Season 2022 | OT | Moving On From Abu Dhabi
Sports 6 7 8 9 10
467
28K
FunkMiller replied
  • Locked
Formula One Season 2021 | OT | Welcome to the Pirhana Club
11 12 13 14 15
743
58K
Grieves replied
Ferrari wants to add female drivers to F1 junior programme
47
3K
V4skunk replied
Formula 1 Season 2019 |OT| Sons of Liberty (Media)
Sports 5 6 7 8 9
402
36K
Makariel replied
Formula 1 Season 2020 |OT| Drive to Survive 2 - who drinks champagne from a shoe?
Sports 19 20 21 22 23
1K
88K
Grieves replied
Top Bottom