What? Nintendo didn't "add" Smash to EVO. When it first reentered it in 2013 they even objected to it!
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Fortune: Why Nintendo is betting on eSports, and not VR
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Nintendo? esports? Hah. I'll believe it when I see it.
I wonder if Japan really wants to do esports or if people in Nintendo USA are pushing for it. Because there's gonna need to be some game design philosophy changes if they want to embrace "competitiveness" properly.
I wonder if Japan really wants to do esports or if people in Nintendo USA are pushing for it. Because there's gonna need to be some game design philosophy changes if they want to embrace "competitiveness" properly.
Neoxon has no idea what he is talking about
Melee will continue going strong because the community was grassroots for so long. It had YEARS to figure out its structure. Things like Melee It On Me, the presence of experienced TOs, connections to Twitch and other big organizations developed over the 13 years of the game's history.
Overall the structure of the community has depth and financial support as well as being able to execute well organized tournaments. That's what makes Melee strong, and that's why Melee has and will continue to last.
On the other hand Smash 4 is in its FIRST year. Saying Evo (which is a customs on tournament) will be the end all be all of the game is absolutely farce. The community JUST established its MIOM equivalent and is just starting to gain experience in things like tournament organizing. The game hasn't even established a universal meta ffs. Entrants wise for almost every major tournament the two games have been neck and neck and the cross over is almost nonexistent. This means a majority of players who enter Melee do not enter Smash 4 and vice versa. So saying shit like "Smash 4 is a temporary relationship while Melee is long term" is ridiculous because the two communities are supported by different demographics.
All we know about the Smash 4 community is that they are much younger than Melee community experience wise, but have shown great improvement just over the past few months. Evo will only dictate two things: 1. If customs are viable and should be used 2. How far below all other Smash 4 players are compared to ZeRo skill level wise. That's it. Stop spouting nonsense when the game is ONLY 7 months old.
And for anyone else interested in Smash both Melee and 4 will be at CEO and streams will be on vgbootcamp/vgbootcamp2 if you want to watch it. I would highly suggest looking at it because it is gonna be a pretty big tournament for both games with Smash 4 being the biggest in CEO's history at 512 entrants. Melee has around 460 iirc.
Melee will continue going strong because the community was grassroots for so long. It had YEARS to figure out its structure. Things like Melee It On Me, the presence of experienced TOs, connections to Twitch and other big organizations developed over the 13 years of the game's history.
Overall the structure of the community has depth and financial support as well as being able to execute well organized tournaments. That's what makes Melee strong, and that's why Melee has and will continue to last.
On the other hand Smash 4 is in its FIRST year. Saying Evo (which is a customs on tournament) will be the end all be all of the game is absolutely farce. The community JUST established its MIOM equivalent and is just starting to gain experience in things like tournament organizing. The game hasn't even established a universal meta ffs. Entrants wise for almost every major tournament the two games have been neck and neck and the cross over is almost nonexistent. This means a majority of players who enter Melee do not enter Smash 4 and vice versa. So saying shit like "Smash 4 is a temporary relationship while Melee is long term" is ridiculous because the two communities are supported by different demographics.
All we know about the Smash 4 community is that they are much younger than Melee community experience wise, but have shown great improvement just over the past few months. Evo will only dictate two things: 1. If customs are viable and should be used 2. How far below all other Smash 4 players are compared to ZeRo skill level wise. That's it. Stop spouting nonsense when the game is ONLY 7 months old.
And for anyone else interested in Smash both Melee and 4 will be at CEO and streams will be on vgbootcamp/vgbootcamp2 if you want to watch it. I would highly suggest looking at it because it is gonna be a pretty big tournament for both games with Smash 4 being the biggest in CEO's history at 512 entrants. Melee has around 460 iirc.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Guys. Please...
I mean this was just last year and gained a lot of notoriety, remember?
Smash isn't the only Nintendo e-sport so far.
I...I don't think you're actually involved in the Smash community if you think that. What nearly 2 to 1 beats views in Grand Finals in weekly tournaments? It's actually 4 that's doing better than Melee. Hell, while it is true during Apex Melee trumped 4, it was only by a small amount and 4 had to compete with the freaking Super Bowl for attention. I think you're forgetting how "recent" Melee's popularity really is. Brawl stayed fairly strong for a while before it flopped and with the ongoing flux of new characters and stages there's a whole lot more life in 4 still.
And even if 4 is overshadowed by Melee...that doesn't mean 4 will now rot. Have you seen Smash channels? They will play any Smash game and have a tournament scene for them. I'm not seeing 4 dying any less than Smash 64 suddenly not getting a scene. The Smash series games have some of the most hardcore followers who won't move from their game that I just don't see your reality.
Also, no channels? You really don't look around do you? There's a new "check this combo out" video nearly every day for 4 from a recent tournament on the Smash reddit. There's a ton of twitch people regularly streaming 4. I've seen 4 and Melee constantly fight for attention and see 4 actually win.
I'm subscribed to VGBootCamp, Tourney Locator, Team Spooky (who covers all fighting games), & a few others. While I've seen a good number of Smash 4 videos, the Melee videos have been more common. I'll try to run a headcount when I have some free time just to be sure. One YouTube account for the Austin scene has mostly Smash 4 footage, so there's that.
That being said, I do sincerely hope that customs last after EVO. After what happened at APEX, I feel like customs have brought a little more excitement to the game.
I acknowledged that later in the thread. What I meant was that in 2014 they more than allowed it in EVO, they co-sponsored EVO and pushes for Smash Wii U as well.
iBlue
Member
Look at most smashers, only play smash they don't consume anything else. My roommate who is one of the top in Canada even confirmed this to me lol
I'm glad we've settled our sources.
I honestly don't see the problem. Anything that was game-breaking as far as custom moves go was already patched out (the Fox-Olimar bullshit). It sure as hell beats the alternative *points to APEX*.
Now granted, CEO could prove that the non-customs metagame has evolved to a much better state than what was shown at APEX, but CEO hasn't happened yet.
JediLink
Member
I don't see the Smash 4 scene dying in the same way that, say, Soulcalibur V is dead (RIP), but I can definitely see people eventually losing interest and numbers going down before Smash 5 is out.
For what it's worth I know there are lots of Melee players who also play SF4. Maybe not with quite as much time investment as they do Melee, but still.
WonderRade
Member
hooray for broad strokes!
Smash 4 is freaking fine people.
Melee has had 14 years to develop a metagame, big names, content creators etc...
Smash 4 is getting stronger and stronger, besides it also has balance patches and more and more DLC heading its way. The metagame is getting more and more diverse and CEO and EVO stand to be very, very exciting for Smash 4.
As for smashers dont buy other games. I stream smash 4 regularly and most people who come by my stream are also playing splatoon, mario kart 8, earthbound beginnings, golden sun VC etc...
A decent amount of melee players dont play as much other nintendo games cuz they arent buying WiiUs in the first place.
Smash 4 is freaking fine people.
Melee has had 14 years to develop a metagame, big names, content creators etc...
Smash 4 is getting stronger and stronger, besides it also has balance patches and more and more DLC heading its way. The metagame is getting more and more diverse and CEO and EVO stand to be very, very exciting for Smash 4.
As for smashers dont buy other games. I stream smash 4 regularly and most people who come by my stream are also playing splatoon, mario kart 8, earthbound beginnings, golden sun VC etc...
A decent amount of melee players dont play as much other nintendo games cuz they arent buying WiiUs in the first place.
DS was heavily competitive and was at EVO one time. There are a dedicated bunch that do play Mario Kart competitively though but I don't know anything about tournaments or anything that. It's not my scene of expertise.
I know Mario Kart DS was, but I can't speak for the other Mario Kart games.
Mexen
Member
This.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What I'm saying is, I'm not convinced. They still have a ways to go, imo, before I'll recognize them as "embracing" esports. Too much bad karma still stored up. But, they're getting better, I'll give 'em that.
I see a few Mario Kart 8 tournaments every once in a while but its not a huge thing. It's usually 4 player free-for-all with items.
Dimitri LH
Member
correct me if im wrong, but aren't they sponsoring Smash4 at evo?
EndlessSky
Member
For the people saying pokemon, I'm pretty sure it's almost entirely handled by The Pokemon Company. When I was going regularly a couple years ago, TPC's name was everywhere, and Nintendo's was only in the corner of banners and stuff.
Pokemon is part of Nintendo, too.
EndlessSky
Member
Well, yeah, but I mean as far as organizing the tournaments and supplying the prizes, it seems TPC does most of it.
Professor Beef
Banned
Seriously, people tend to forget this but it wasn't until Apex 2013 (during the EVO fundraiser) when Melee entrants started to actively rival Brawl tourney entrants. Even though Melee obviously has the competitive longevity in comparison, Brawl kept up steam for five fucking years, and this is Brawl we're talking about.
Smash 4 is going to be fine.
Well, most of the bigger games for both are played competitively at some points. Gears was in its hayday. Even Forza does too. Outside of Halo, no many games last years after they come out.
You could make a massively tenuous link and say MS with Windows/Direct-X etc pushed e-sports gaming forwards and now you have DotA, LoL, StarCraft etc.
jts
...hate me...
Well, most of the bigger games for both are played competitively at some points. Gears was in its hayday. Even Forza does too. Outside of Halo, no many games last years after they come out.
You could make a massively tenuous link and say MS with Windows/Direct-X etc pushed e-sports gaming forwards and now you have DotA, LoL, StarCraft etc.
You guys are right. I wasn't too aware of MS's offerings. On the other hand, Sony's doesn't seem to be a big deal.
The issue with MS esports is that the developers failed for the most part on the last generation. Halo 4 and Gears 4 were both flops with complete disregard for the game mechanics. They were unplayable.
CoD was a bit odd to me but was a hit from what I saw.
Halo 5 and Gears 5 promise to go back to some of the older gameplay and actually ensure it is competitive. We'll see.
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Oh, and as far as VR on Nintendo, I think
1. They don't need more gimmicks
2. They probably can't support it well on any of their existing platforms anyway.
Whether or not VR is a gimmick is yet to be seen.
As I'm saying, Nintendo is lacking any team esports. They have smash and pokemon, which are 1v1. In fact, I don't remember any real team games developed by them that were hits. Team games draw big viewers and followings compared to 1v1. They need both.
CoD was a bit odd to me but was a hit from what I saw.
Halo 5 and Gears 5 promise to go back to some of the older gameplay and actually ensure it is competitive. We'll see.
---
Oh, and as far as VR on Nintendo, I think
1. They don't need more gimmicks
2. They probably can't support it well on any of their existing platforms anyway.
Whether or not VR is a gimmick is yet to be seen.
As I'm saying, Nintendo is lacking any team esports. They have smash and pokemon, which are 1v1. In fact, I don't remember any real team games developed by them that were hits. Team games draw big viewers and followings compared to 1v1. They need both.
To be honest, many of the big franchise games for Sony and MS are played competitively but not really to the e-sports level. For Sony MAG, Warhawk, Uncharted, Killzone etc had MP modes that were played in various tournaments but nothing that really set the world on fire.
MS seem to have better luck with producing MP focused games that people play for ages.
There is a split between competitive games and e-sports though.
Haunted
Member
Well, he started out as VP of marketing and sales at Nintendo but is now actually the president and COO of NoA. That's obviously more than just a marketing guy. That said, it's also clear that Nintendo of Japan is still the branch of the company with the most power.
Guys. Please...
I mean this was just last year and gained a lot of notoriety, remember?
Smash isn't the only Nintendo e-sport so far.
.
ShemhazaiX
Member
And then Sony is betting on both with Rigs. D:
I just really want to try Rigs. :[ First game to get me interested in VR as a full on gaming thing rather than being small tech demos.
I just really want to try Rigs. :[ First game to get me interested in VR as a full on gaming thing rather than being small tech demos.
SerTapTap
Member
I don't even think it's fair to call that a competitive event. Their smash at evo stuff was competitive, this was random popular people doing pr event
Vital Tundra
Member
Apples to oranges???
Sunnington
Banned
One competitive event? You mean that thing they did at E3 this year? That wasn't even as competitive as me and my friends get playing party games in my living room. That was an ad for Nintendo games.
pinkurocket
Member
Not every sport is competitive either tho. It's also entertainment, and Nintendo delivered entertainment with that World Championship. That is Nintendo, fun & entertaining. It's like wrestling and stuff that's scripted and over-the-top. Not competitive, but entertaining.
Anyway, it's still a silly comparison.
Anyway, it's still a silly comparison.
It is, but it's the article title that's comparing it, not Reggie.
