Fortune: Why Nintendo is betting on eSports, and not VR

Melee is the only truly competitive game they have as it is right now. Splatoon could become one, if they tweaked it a bit (added a competitive mode, with custom lobby setup).

It also would be a lot easier with a better account system, where you could log into any Wii U and keep your personal setup.
FTFY. While Smash 4 has a thriving scene now, it's all downhill from here after EVO. It's living on borrowed time, & like I said earlier, I can't see any scenario where Smash 4 lasts longer than Melee in the FGC.

And once again I give the disclaimer that I play both Smash 4 & Melee competitively (though a bit more on the Smash 4 side).
 
Lol that one got me too. Thats like saying MS has a long and deep history with Japanese devs.

"Yeah remember we tried that one time... didnt work too well, so we just kinda just moved on."

To be fair to MS, they did have the MSX and MSX2 computers back in the day
 
was the Nintendo World Championship more far reaching than we thought?

Probably not, but the Forbes reporter certainly is more gullible than we thought. Reggie probably sold him Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival as the next big thing in e-sports as well.
I really love Splatoon but you just need to look as its feature set to see e-sports was not first and foremost on the minds of the designers - and thank god for that because it probably would have turned me off in a big way.
 
Until Nintendo sets up a similar system to Capcom Cup or at least adds fucking POT BONUSES to any of their games they aren't eSports even though many Treehouse members are knowledgeable about it.
 
Probably not, but the Forbes reporter certainly is more gullible than we thought. Reggie probably sold him Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival as the next big thing in e-sports as well.
I really love Splatoon but you just need to look as its feature set to see e-sports was not first and foremost on the minds of the designers - and thank god for that because it probably would have turned me off in a big way.
Nothing a patch or two can't fix. In fact, I can see Splatoon becoming competitive after the August update adds custom lobbies.
 
The levelling system in Splatoon is going to hurt it competitively if they can't do something about it. But Nintendo had a custom build with lobbies, four weapons unlocked, etc at NWC so they can make it happen if they want to.

Hasn't Nintendo/GameFreak been running Pokemon competitive tournaments for years now? Obviously they don't follow the Smogom rule-sets and ban-lists but they've been doing it for a long time.
VGC may not be a format I particularly like, but it's light-years more competitive than NWC or the Smash Invitational
 
I like how they forgot about Pokemon.

You know, that Game with the crazy competitive Scene, where the World Championship that has been held for several years now actually mean WORLD Championship? Where the Prizepool seems to be increasing because it's getting more Popular?

Reggie, you had an eSports Game all along you know?
 
Reggie in with his social fun, and its only social; and fun when he says it is.....

Nobody can hear you Reggie....

Esports on console - is that not mainly MLG or have things changed ?

I thought with 20 million yearly sales and tourney Sponsorships..... Esports on console was mainly COD...did not know there were other players ?
 
Is Melee the Third Strike of Smash?
No, because there's a 12% chance that Smash 4 will outlive it. Smash 4 is the brief fling, Melee is the committed relationship.

Sakurai will never make a Smash game that's a true successor to Melee, & as such there will never be a game that will get the Smash scene as a whole to unite under one game. Unless Sakurai truly retires after Smash 4 (which would be unfortunate given his attention-to-detail), Nintendo would be better off focusing their eSports efforts on Splatoon. As much as I love Smash 4, I can't see it lasting longer than Melee.
 
No, because there's a 12% chance that Smash 4 will outlive it. Smash 4 is the brief fling, Melee is the committed relationship.

I hope this isn't the case. I'm actually good at Smash 4. :(

I tried to get into the Melee scene and got my ass handed to me repeatedly.
 
I hope this isn't the case. I'm actually good at Smash 4. :(

I tried to get into the Melee scene and got my ass handed to me repeatedly.
Same here. But joining the competitive scene these last few months have opened my eyes to the fact. It's unfortunate because like you, I'm actually not half bad at Smash 4.
Granted, my little bro wrecks my shit 70% of the time with Captain Falcon & Roy, but you get the idea.
 
Nothing a patch or two can't fix. In fact, I can see Splatoon becoming competitive after the August update adds custom lobbies.

Sure, but what makes the game so much fun is that you pretty much can do your own thing and contribute to your team right now. If advanced tactics are used in a match that's fine, but I'd probably stop playing if I frequently ran into enemy teams that constantly used exploits and sure fire winning coordination strategies. For me the chaos is what makes Splatoon so much fun and inviting.
 
I like how they forgot about Pokemon.

You know, that Game with the crazy competitive Scene, where the World Championship that has been held for several years now actually mean WORLD Championship? Where the Prizepool seems to be increasing because it's getting more Popular?

Reggie, you had an eSports Game all along you know?

Started long, long ago with Pokemon cards and added the games to the tournament back in 2009 I believe. National tournaments are held in over 40 countries to date and winners of nationals get a chance to compete in the world championships.
 
No, because there's a 12% chance that Smash 4 will outlive it. Smash 4 is the brief fling, Melee is the committed relationship.

Sakurai will never make a Smash game that's a true successor to Melee, & as such there will never be a game that will get the Smash scene as a whole to unite under one game. Unless Sakurai truly retires after Smash 4 (which would be unfortunate given his attention-to-detail), Nintendo would be better off focusing their eSports efforts on Splatoon. As much as I love Smash 4, I can't see it lasting longer than Melee.
Oh, so it's even worse that the Third Strike scenario? Eh, at least the Melee community is still going really strong.

I wish I could get into the scene for Melee, but I don't really know where to look locally.
 
Smash 4 will last as long until the next Smash game. Neoxon, stop being a negative Nancy.
No it won't. In fact, Smash 4's future after EVO 2015 is uncertain. It'll probably come back for EVO 2016 due to the DLC characters alone (which will likely end by that time), but other than that it won't last long. While it's a great game in its own right, the Melee side of the Smash scene (which makes up the majority) have already shunned it. This basically marked Smash 4 for death. It won't outlive Melee. Would I want it to, hell yeah (on account of me actually being good at Smash 4 while I'm just decent at Melee), but I can't see it happening.

Splatoon on the other hand has a bright competitive future ahead of it after the August update. If I were Nintendo, I'd go all-in for Splatoon's competitive scene rather than gamble on Smash on the slim chance that Sakurai would make the next one/rebalance Smash 4 to be more like Melee or gamble on a new director who could potentially make the game as a whole worse than the golden standard set by Sakurai.
 
No, because there's a 12% chance that Smash 4 will outlive it. Smash 4 is the brief fling, Melee is the committed relationship.

Sakurai will never make a Smash game that's a true successor to Melee, & as such there will never be a game that will get the Smash scene as a whole to unite under one game. Unless Sakurai truly retires after Smash 4 (which would be unfortunate given his attention-to-detail), Nintendo would be better off focusing their eSports efforts on Splatoon. As much as I love Smash 4, I can't see it lasting longer than Melee.

Even if Sakurai retires, I don't imagine you'll get another Melee though. It's all what ifs.
 
The only problem Smash Melee had (And still has) is that it requires a high skill level so its not attractive to new players. Smash 4 can be like Pokemon in that is a game that is easy to learn and pretty much relies on new, yet relatively easy to learn strategies for its metagame to evolve.

I honestly think Smash 4 is here to stay, unless until Smash 5.
 
Smash 4 isn't going anywhere. Brawl took forever to die, and that was a game where tournaments stagnated to a ridiculous degree unlike anything in Smash 4.
 
Even if Sakurai retires, I don't imagine you'll get another Melee though. It's all what ifs.
I touched on that in my recent post. There is a possibility that on the off chance that Sakurai passes the torch, that the new director could make the game worse overall.
 
No it won't. In fact, Smash 4's future after EVO 2015 is uncertain. It'll probably come back for EVO 2016 due to the DLC characters alone (which will likely end by that time), but other than that it won't last long. While it's a great game in its own right, the Melee side of the Smash scene (which makes up the majority) have already shunned it. This basically marked Smash 4 for death. It won't outlive Melee. Would I want it to, hell yeah (on account of me actually being good at Smash 4 while I'm just decent at Melee), but I can't see it happening.

Splatoon on the other hand has a bright competitive future ahead of it after the August update. If I were Nintendo, I'd go all-in for Splatoon's competitive scene.
Smash 4 scene is comprised of Brawl veterans, and new players coming into the scene. The Melee scene is their own thing, and doesn't have a bearing on how Smash 4 is going to last or not.

Nexeon, you are just in a weak area for Smash 4 if you are already talking about the game dying in your area. People in socal will play for years until Smash 5 or the equivalent will come out. So will other areas strong in Smash 4.
 
Smash 4 isn't going anywhere. Brawl took forever to die, and that was a game where tournaments stagnated to a ridiculous degree unlike anything in Smash 4.
I wish I could believe this, I genuinely do. But from what I've seen at the tournaments I've attended, this doesn't seem to be the case. There are still tournaments that ignore Smash 4 entirely & only offer Melee & PM (especially in Houston). College Station & Austin are better with hosting Smash 4 tournaments as far as Texas goes.

Smash 4 scene is comprised of Brawl veterans, and new players coming into the scene. The Melee scene is their own thing, and doesn't have a bearing on how Smash 4 is going to last or not.

Neoxon, you are just in a weak area for Smash 4 if you are already talking about the game dying in your area. People in socal will play for years until Smash 5 or the equivalent will come out. So will other areas strong in Smash 4.
This could be the case as I've yet to go out-of-state for any tournament. But then there's the points brought up by Mensrea.
I think it's important to note why they shun it. It's not a bad game, far from it, its just that it is EXTREMELY defensively oriented. All the defensive options are incredibly safe, this along with low hitstun, no strong movement options, campy characters, and asinine ledge mechanics make for a game the has nowhere near the appeal of Melee for many.
 
Nintendo has one single competitive event and now they're strong supporters of eSports?

/Edit: I realize Reggie explicitly mentions Nintendo as a supporter of eSports but I think that's a stretch given Nintendo's lack of activity in the space during the last several years.

They've been sponsoring a bunch of Fighting game events with Smash, have had Pokemon VGC for a while now, on top of what was already listed

Everyone forgets Pokemon
 
No it won't. In fact, Smash 4's future after EVO 2015 is uncertain. It'll probably come back for EVO 2016 due to the DLC characters alone (which will likely end by that time), but other than that it won't last long. While it's a great game in its own right, the Melee side of the Smash scene (which makes up the majority) have already shunned it. This basically marked Smash 4 for death. It won't outlive Melee. Would I want it to, hell yeah (on account of me actually being good at Smash 4 while I'm just decent at Melee), but I can't see it happening.

Splatoon on the other hand has a bright competitive future ahead of it after the August update. If I were Nintendo, I'd go all-in for Splatoon's competitive scene.

I think it's important to note why they shun it. It's not a bad game, far from it, its just that it is EXTREMELY defensively oriented. All the defensive options are incredibly safe, this along with low hitstun, no strong movement options, campy characters, and asinine ledge mechanics make for a game the has nowhere near the appeal of Melee for many.
 
I'm not sure the Nintendo World Championship -- which resembles a reality tv show series of challenges more than a sport -- and sponsoring EVO -- after first saying EVO was not allowed to play with their games -- really qualifies as "betting on eSports" on Nintendo's part
 
Intention doesn't negate the fact that they are getting into eSports as the article has mentioned. Just because they use eSports to promote their titles doesn't mean they're not interested in eSports. They're interested BECAUSE it makes them money in addition to building a better relationship with fans.

And only Sakurai has ever mentioned Smash Bros. was designed as a party game, but just because it is designed to be one thing doesn't mean it can't become something else entirely. To say that Smash is not a competitive game is fairly ignorant of the wide Smash competitive community around the world. Hell, I'm part of a Facebook group that every hour argues about certain tech or tournament rule drama because they are incredibly into the competitive side.

I suppose I'm simply not following your line of reasoning.

You know that smash players only consume smash stuff right? Smash is a tiny community and it's not 1% of the total sales.
 
Are you guys kidding me, you turned this thread into a Melee vs. Smash 4 thread? Come on.
My next subject was actually going to be how Nintendo could foster the Splatoon competitive scene into something spectacular. The August update is the first big step towards that.

The Splatoon copies at the Nintendo World Championship appeared to have some kind of LAN functionality, which I hope is added to the retail versions of the game. Though the private lobbies in the August update could replicate that.
 
Oh, so it's even worse that the Third Strike scenario? Eh, at least the Melee community is still going really strong.

I wish I could get into the scene for Melee, but I don't really know where to look locally.
It shouldn't be that hard, just need to do a little googling. If you're anywhere near a city there will probably be a smash Facebook group. If you're outside the US it might be harder to find other players but it's still possible.
 
Long and deep vr history. With virtual boy. Hmm.

Lol that one got me too. Thats like saying MS has a long and deep history with Japanese devs.

"Yeah remember we tried that one time... didnt work too well, so we just kinda just moved on."

I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that since the Virtual Boy, Nintendo has continued to research and develop their own VR behind the scenes to try and find a way to make it work for them. Miyamoto has constantly talked over the years about wanting to expand gaming beyond the restraints of a TV screen, and if you think that means anything other than some kind of VR/AR you're crazy. They're just Nintendo and they want to make it social so as long as it's one person sitting there with a helmet, it's not gonna happen for them.

The Wii U Gamepad is almost.. almost Nintendo VR. It's just instead of putting the screen in a helmet they put it in the controller. But games like Zombie U and the Zelda segment of NintendoLand, possibly even the new Fatal Frame (does the Gamepad act as your camera? Not sure), those are totally VR games without helmets.

It's kind of a tragedy that even Nintendo let the potential of the Gamepad just totally waste away. They could have done some really awesome stuff with it.
 
Started long, long ago with Pokemon cards and added the games to the tournament back in 2009 I believe. National tournaments are held in over 40 countries to date and winners of nationals get a chance to compete in the world championships.

Yep. I actually tried once to go to the Nationals, but got completely destroyed in the Regionals already haha.

I'll maybe try again next year.
 
No it won't. In fact, Smash 4's future after EVO 2015 is uncertain. It'll probably come back for EVO 2016 due to the DLC characters alone (which will likely end by that time), but other than that it won't last long. While it's a great game in its own right, the Melee side of the Smash scene (which makes up the majority) have already shunned it. This basically marked Smash 4 for death. It won't outlive Melee. Would I want it to, hell yeah (on account of me actually being good at Smash 4 while I'm just decent at Melee), but I can't see it happening.

Splatoon on the other hand has a bright competitive future ahead of it after the August update. If I were Nintendo, I'd go all-in for Splatoon's competitive scene rather than gamble on Smash on the slim chance that Sakurai would make the next one/rebalance Smash 4 to be more like Melee or gamble on a new director who could potentially make the game as a whole worse than the golden standard set by Sakurai.

I screenshoted your post.

See you at EVO2017 in Smash 4

If PM becomes more popular Nintendo will C&D it fast. Smash 4 is here to stay. You can't get a subcriber button if you stream PM on Twitch on a regular basis. Is either Smash 4/Melee or Melee alone. Not everyone is going to play Melee solo.

Hell, every single tournament right now is getting more view on Smash 4 than Melee (See: VGBootcamp, Showdown Smash, MVG, Rush Hour, etc). and by more I mean, 5k differences on viewers. With the exception of "Big" Tournament.

Smash 4 reaching 10k views: https://twitter.com/VGBC_GimR/status/611007003209650176

Melee barely reaches 3k on finals on the biggest Smash Weekly Tournament.

I bet you, this week, numbers will be similar on finals for both Melee and Smash 4. and I bet Smash 4 will have better numbers (Smash 4 has more entrants than Melee)

Yes, Smash 4 is here to stay.
 
I screenshoted your post.

See you at EVO2017 in Smash 4

If PM becomes more popular Nintendo will C&D it fast. Smash 4 is here to stay. You can't get a subcriber button if you stream PM on Twitch on a regular basis. Is either Smash 4/Melee or Melee alone. Not everyone is going to play Melee solo.

Hell, every single tournament right now is getting more view on Smash 4 than Melee (See: VGBootcamp, Showdown Smash, MVG, Rush Hour, etc). and by more I mean, 5k differences on viewers. With the exception of "Big" Tournament.

Smash 4 reaching 10k views: https://twitter.com/VGBC_GimR/status/611007003209650176

Melee barely reaches 3k on finals on the biggest Smash Weekly Tournament.

I bet you, this week, numbers will be similar on finals for both Melee and Smash 4. and I bet Smash 4 will have better numbers (Smash 4 has more entrants than Melee)

Yes, Smash 4 is here to stay.
Believe me, I'd love to be wrong, & I'd happily eat crow if that was the case. But in every scenario I try to imagine for the future of competitive Smash, Melee always comes out on top. EVO won't be big enough for both Smash games. One of them will have to give, & the Melee scene isn't gonna go down without a fight.

But if a miracle happens & Smash 4 is still alive by EVO 2017, I'll gladly see you there. Maybe we'll be in the same bracket.

I can't stand Melee die hards. They will never be satisfied with a Smash game unless it is identical to Melee but HD.
While I do understand some of the complaints of the Melee fans (mainly with Smash 4 being too defense-oriented & campy), them basically avoiding Smash 4 like the plague is a little on the picky side.
 
Betting on VR stuff isn't smart atm.
It won't be a huge succes. It will be once holograms exists.

And yes they are still doing research on VR.
When the time is right, they will.
 
Betting on VR stuff isn't smart atm.
It won't be a huge succes. It will be once holograms exists.

And yes they are still doing research on VR.
When the time is right, they will.
This is kind of my thinking when it comes to VR. It's a cool concept, but I feel like it needs more time in the oven before it's ready for mass consumption. That & the fact that the price needs to be reasonable (correct me if I'm wrong about VR being expensive).
 
Believe me, I'd love to be wrong, & I'd happily eat crow if that was the case. But in every scenario I try to imagine for the future of competitive Smash, Melee always comes out on top. EVO won't be big enough for both Smash games. One of them will have to give, & the Melee scene isn't gonna go down without a fight.

But if a miracle happens & Smash 4 is still alive by EVO 2017, I'll gladly see you there. Maybe we'll be in the same bracket.
No one is gonna kill off any game. Melee is staying with their fans and Smash 4 with theirs. Smash 4 right now is HUGE, due to the For Glory/Wifi.

We have now Patches, DLCs, new stages. Sakurai just stated that he will be making more DLC. This is hype.

I can't see the Smash 4 scene dying until the next game releases.

EVO will have nothing to do with how long the Smash 4 stays alive. We've got our veterans (Nairo, Nakat, Zero, Mr.R, etc) they wont just let the game die. These people make money of it.

Smash got more youtubers making Smash 4 content than Melee. This is very important. People like Shofu, AceStarThe3rd, etc. will keep the game alive too.

Smash live off the hype and if Nintendo wants to keep the game alive, they will do it.
 
No one is gonna kill off any game. Melee is staying with their fans and Smash 4 with theirs. Smash 4 right now is HUGE, due to the For Glory/Wifi.

We have now Patches, DLCs, new stages. Sakurai just stated that he will be making more DLC. This is hype.

I can't see the Smash 4 scene dying until the next game releases.

EVO will have nothing to do with how long the Smash 4 stays alive. We've got our veterans (Nairo, Nakat, Zero, Mr.R, etc) they wont just let the game die. These people make money of it.

Smash got more youtubers making Smash 4 content than Melee. This is very important. People like Shofu, AceStarThe3rd, etc. will keep the game alive too.

Smash live off the hype and if Nintendo wants to keep the game alive, they will do it.
EVO is kind of the golden standard for all fighting games. When they legalized custom moves, a majority of tournaments followed suit (besides CEO & some Houston tournaments). If Smash 4 is removed from the EVO line-up, the Smash 4 scene will begin to fade, & this is my biggest concern. The Melee scene won't give up their EVO slot, Smash 4 is the newest kid on the block that is actually getting support from Nintendo, & many are complaining about there being 2 Smash games (despite the two being completely different). Plus DLC can only keep a game alive for so long (see Injustice). Hell, there are still channels that barely cover Smash 4 at all (GRSmash, a popular YouTube channel that basically compiles Top 10 moments from the Smash scene).

And For Glory isn't exactly the best representation of tournament play (5min instead of 6, no customs, no Mii Fighters, Omega only, etc.), though I don't think that was the point of your post.
 
If Nintendo really did venture into Esports, that would really be an interesting move considering the possibilities that they may do moving forward. However, while I am still ambivalent when it comes to VR, dismissing it may not be the best idea.
 
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