Obviously. Same reason Valve, Blizzard, Riot or Capcom support eSports.
Fortune: Why Nintendo is betting on eSports, and not VR
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
I mean TPC is a nintendo subsidiary but yes the pokemon events have nothing to do with NOA
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Oh man, they're so full of shit its unbearable.
I think Nintendo lost its way around 2007/08 and has since then been horribly mismanaged. At least their home console ventures are a complete desaster.
They somehow didn't realise that the new market they appealed to with the Wii disappeared around 2010 an went to tablets and phones.
Of the 100mil people who bought a Wii, at least70mil have no interest in console gaming whatsoever anymore.
In addition to that Nintendo is too far behind Sony and Microsoft to appeal to their "core" market.
So all they're left with right now is die hard Nintendo fans.
To change that they need to innovate and find a new market. And you don't innovate by watching other companies trying out things.
And don't tell me you're close to E-Sports. Like 98% of e-sports games aren't even on your plattforms.
I really don't know if they're either clueless and really believe this nonsense or if its all just PR fluff to get the interviews over with.
Nintendo was my favorite place to play till the Gamecube, but over recent years I've started to actually dislike them because don't seem to value the type of customers that made them big. They seem to chase after every other type of customer and treat their true fans like crap.
I think Nintendo lost its way around 2007/08 and has since then been horribly mismanaged. At least their home console ventures are a complete desaster.
They somehow didn't realise that the new market they appealed to with the Wii disappeared around 2010 an went to tablets and phones.
Of the 100mil people who bought a Wii, at least70mil have no interest in console gaming whatsoever anymore.
In addition to that Nintendo is too far behind Sony and Microsoft to appeal to their "core" market.
So all they're left with right now is die hard Nintendo fans.
To change that they need to innovate and find a new market. And you don't innovate by watching other companies trying out things.
And don't tell me you're close to E-Sports. Like 98% of e-sports games aren't even on your plattforms.
I really don't know if they're either clueless and really believe this nonsense or if its all just PR fluff to get the interviews over with.
Nintendo was my favorite place to play till the Gamecube, but over recent years I've started to actually dislike them because don't seem to value the type of customers that made them big. They seem to chase after every other type of customer and treat their true fans like crap.
I mean, they have a large chunk of the company, but you can't really call it a subsidiary (Nintendo certainly doesn't)
sixteen-bit
Member
Nintendo betting on eSports? Melee HD confirmed?
You're forgetting the Smash Bros Invitational last year, and Smash tournaments at other expos like Eurogamer in London.
What's wrong with that?
RowdyReverb
Member
VR is a risky venture right now. There are a lot of unknowns and it has yet to prove that there is a viable market. It's ok to sit on the sidelines and observe for now and jump on the bandwagon if/when it takes off.
eSports is an interesting focus. Nintendo does make some very competitive games. I wonder if that means we're going to see more of a focus on competition in their future games.
eSports is an interesting focus. Nintendo does make some very competitive games. I wonder if that means we're going to see more of a focus on competition in their future games.
Oppo
Member
Reggie said:
I like to bag on Reggie but this is beyond the pale. What the fuck.
A long and deep history with VR. gotta be fucking kidding me. I'd say Mattel has an even longer and deeper tech history with VR if you point to the ViewMaster stereo photographic viewing apparatus, which was arguably more advanced a toy than the fucking Virtual Boy.
Like, that's amazing. I actually laughed out loud.
edit - I see I am not alone
Riot -- a company which did not even exist when the Wii launched -- puts players on their company payroll, pays for an entire league to exist year round to play their game, widely publicizes that league and secures venues for World championships in places like South Korea (esports mecca) and now Madison Square Garden in NYC; works hard to find sponsorship deals and establish league standard rules for team placement and behavior.
Valve has fostered and encouraged a large, open network of tournaments for several of their games, most notably CS and DotA2. They host world finals for DotA2 which reach tens of millions of dollars in prize money.
That is betting on esports. What Nintendo is doing might reasonably be described as "dipping their toes in." I feel like Blizzard has been far too slow embracing esports (and I believe it has cost them, as StarCraft II is far smaller now as a consequence of its comparatively poor esports promotion), and they're still way ahead of Nintendo here. I guess if your comparison is only Sony and Microsoft, then yeah, Nintendo is winning.
Valve has fostered and encouraged a large, open network of tournaments for several of their games, most notably CS and DotA2. They host world finals for DotA2 which reach tens of millions of dollars in prize money.
That is betting on esports. What Nintendo is doing might reasonably be described as "dipping their toes in." I feel like Blizzard has been far too slow embracing esports (and I believe it has cost them, as StarCraft II is far smaller now as a consequence of its comparatively poor esports promotion), and they're still way ahead of Nintendo here. I guess if your comparison is only Sony and Microsoft, then yeah, Nintendo is winning.
It works too. Despite the fact that Reggie never says they're betting on eSports or looking into eSports instead of VR, people are reacting and responding to the title.
Pure Reggie bullshit.
Nintendo's "commitment" to esports is practically nonexistent. You have League, Dota, Starcraft, CS, Street Fighter, and then somewhere way down the list Nintendo games are bringing up the rear. They don't put in the money and resources, they don't design their games with esports in mind, they don't have a plan to create infrastructure. Where is Nintendo's Capcom Cup or LCS? "Commitment".
Nintendo doesn't understand esports culture or the financial incentives that make it function. Nintendo is the company that tried to block streaming of Smash at Evo 2013 (before eventually changing their minds after fan protest). They throw up every obstacle they can to prevent streamers from streaming their games, which is how pros make a lot of their money.
The most hilarious part of his whole explanation is him pretending that Nintendo somehow has to choose between VR and esports. Funny how Valve, one of the world leaders in esports, is also one of the world leaders in gaming VR. But for Nintendo, their nonexistent esports initiative is an excuse for dropping the ball on VR.
Reggie is one of the smoothest talkers in the industry. When Forbes asks him a question about one buzzword -- VR -- he makes up some bullshit using another buzzword -- esports -- and they buy it. They're a mainstream publication and he knows they won't push back on his nonsense. But it has no relationship to reality.
Nintendo's "commitment" to esports is practically nonexistent. You have League, Dota, Starcraft, CS, Street Fighter, and then somewhere way down the list Nintendo games are bringing up the rear. They don't put in the money and resources, they don't design their games with esports in mind, they don't have a plan to create infrastructure. Where is Nintendo's Capcom Cup or LCS? "Commitment".
Nintendo doesn't understand esports culture or the financial incentives that make it function. Nintendo is the company that tried to block streaming of Smash at Evo 2013 (before eventually changing their minds after fan protest). They throw up every obstacle they can to prevent streamers from streaming their games, which is how pros make a lot of their money.
The most hilarious part of his whole explanation is him pretending that Nintendo somehow has to choose between VR and esports. Funny how Valve, one of the world leaders in esports, is also one of the world leaders in gaming VR. But for Nintendo, their nonexistent esports initiative is an excuse for dropping the ball on VR.
Reggie is one of the smoothest talkers in the industry. When Forbes asks him a question about one buzzword -- VR -- he makes up some bullshit using another buzzword -- esports -- and they buy it. They're a mainstream publication and he knows they won't push back on his nonsense. But it has no relationship to reality.
I feel like the scene is partially just trying to support the idea of customs so that maybe Sakurai won't make using them a nightmare in the next game
Newtype-001
Member
I dont really see the correlation.
in anycase MS already has there halo thing and sony supporting the capcom cup aswell as are already rolling out their own eSports league. It doesnt have to be one over the other.
I do think publishers should be pushing eSports more though.
in anycase MS already has there halo thing and sony supporting the capcom cup aswell as are already rolling out their own eSports league. It doesnt have to be one over the other.
I do think publishers should be pushing eSports more though.
If Nintendo wants to show some real commitment to esports, they should do more than casually support one or two games. We should get some Dota 2 compendium style deal going with the recent Smash 4 DLC to help grow the pot at EVO. We should have a huge-ass international Splatoon tournament going on with a monster pot to get everyone interested.
Nintendo could be a player in esports, but they gotta commit and not just pay it lip-service.
Nintendo could be a player in esports, but they gotta commit and not just pay it lip-service.
I read the article and came to a different conclusion than the title, it seems...
it actually seems like Nintendo is betting on VR/AR, they just don't think the tech is far enough along to release to consumers
it also seems like they're not really betting on esports, more that they enjoy the competitive gaming scene and like taking part in it from time to time
it actually seems like Nintendo is betting on VR/AR, they just don't think the tech is far enough along to release to consumers
it also seems like they're not really betting on esports, more that they enjoy the competitive gaming scene and like taking part in it from time to time
Oppo
Member
I suspect this could be modulated to read: they don't think VR tech is cheap enough for them to make nice margins on right now. Which could be correct.
I'd love for them jump in with both feet to either AR or VR though, I think AR is a particularly good fit for Nintendo, but they've gotta get some faster stuff for full markerless.
Graphics Horse
Member
Virtual boy is the same level of VR as the View-Master
Or Tomytronic 3D. Seriously it annoys me when random people describe the Virtual Boy as VR and now Nintendo are doing it too >:|
All they did was borrow the 'virtual' buzzword of the time.
all signs point to them going this way and reggie and iwata have both made too many comments about the tech not being ready yet for them not to be working with it
you can also see the steps they're taking with the 3DS, New 3DS, and even the Wii U gamepad
I was really surprised hearing descriptions of some of the VR games that have one person with the head set on and 4 others using the TV screen. got flashbacks to Nintendo Land.
geordiemp
Member
Did not Microsoft promote and invest in the COD MLG tournaments...? They put more money and effort in than all in the console space.....?
NX will have build in support for VR or AR... they can't ignore it completely at this point. (Kinda like how the Vita had future support for the PS4 since it was in the pipeline.)
Even if they don't reveal a headset right away, they will have one deep in production with the pieces in place at the time of the NX reveal. And be ready to announce the headset on day 1 if VR becomes an unstoppable storm before then.
They simply cannot ignore it.
Even if they don't reveal a headset right away, they will have one deep in production with the pieces in place at the time of the NX reveal. And be ready to announce the headset on day 1 if VR becomes an unstoppable storm before then.
They simply cannot ignore it.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
that event was pretty far from competitive. If it was supposed to be a real competition/tournament and not just a PR thing, they might want to fire the guy who came up with the structure of it.
....he says, before VR is even sold commercially.
I'm not arguing against that. I'm only stating the obvious. They will have VR/AR features developed into NX. They may not mention them at all in 2016, but the platform will have some of its design based around it.
And they will have something ready to show early 2016 if they suddenly feel they need to.
Saying VR isn't "Fun" yet is just their PR speech to say that it isn't "embraced" yet. If it is suddenly embraced by the masses, they will be ready to jump in.
We probably won't hear or see much more for VR for some time. Probably nothing else for 2015. Unless there is a major event I'm not thinking about...
Do people see potential for VR in Japan? Unless they can use it on the train, I doubt it... so mobile VR could be huge in Japan some day. (It will be huge everywhere some day, undeniably.) Nintendo will only do something that works for Japan as well.
Ultra Numb
Member
Lets be real, Smash has only started to delve into the serious "e-sports" scene and even then it's still just a new-comer. Only the top players are making a "living" from the franchise such as C9 Mango, Alliance Armada, EG PPMD, Zero and a few others. Competitive Melee got to where it is today because of the Melee community, not Nintendo.
However, even then it's hard to call it a "living" when the prize-pots are puny compared to other big e-sports. It seems like the person who's best off is Mango, he wins quite a few tournaments but more importantly, his stream is pretty big, he has like 2.5k subscribers and gets plenty of donations. If Nintendo want to get more serious into the e-sports scene, this is something they should commit to, not just with Smash but any competitive game they want to try out.
On the stream numbers side, Smash is already quite big, as far as fighting games go anyway. In 2013 it broke all fighting game stream records, and the Melee event at Apex this year capped at 119k. Tournament numbers also keep rising, EVO 15 Smash is looking to have around at least 3000 entrants just for Smash and the best part is that there is little overlay between the two games, mostly unique entrants. Melee could end up actually breaking into 2000 as they're notorious for last minute registrations.
However, even then it's hard to call it a "living" when the prize-pots are puny compared to other big e-sports. It seems like the person who's best off is Mango, he wins quite a few tournaments but more importantly, his stream is pretty big, he has like 2.5k subscribers and gets plenty of donations. If Nintendo want to get more serious into the e-sports scene, this is something they should commit to, not just with Smash but any competitive game they want to try out.
On the stream numbers side, Smash is already quite big, as far as fighting games go anyway. In 2013 it broke all fighting game stream records, and the Melee event at Apex this year capped at 119k. Tournament numbers also keep rising, EVO 15 Smash is looking to have around at least 3000 entrants just for Smash and the best part is that there is little overlay between the two games, mostly unique entrants. Melee could end up actually breaking into 2000 as they're notorious for last minute registrations.
http://www.cnet.com/news/google-mattel-announce-a-virtual-reality-view-master/
Mattel is light years beyond nintendo's "deep history" with vr.
Nintendo held a ton of esports events before Smash, including a bunch of Pokemon ones.
Microsoft is now doing it's own esports league for Halo called HCS
Triggerhappytel
Member
Nintendo is betting on eSports?
What was wrong with it?
I keep seeing in this thread that it was anti-competitive when other kinds of competitive challenges exist outside of the normal we often see from 1 on 1 to team sports. There are gladiator challenges where people are up against obstacles and each obstacle can have set rules and challenges that you must overcome. John Numbers said in the Nintendo Minute interview that he should have never won the Super Metroid challenge because he had never played a Metroid game in his life. He rose to the challenge and won with just his skill and quick thinking.
John Numbers wasn't in the Medtroid challenge.
Wait, then why did he bring it up?
Wait... they're betting on esports? What have they done besides sponsor Smash at Evo for two years, sponsor Smash at Apex this year, and the two E3 tournaments/events over the last two years? That's everything, right?
Their support of the Smash community has been awesome since E3 2014, but there's still so much more they could do. I'd like to see them host an actual Smash Bros. tournament with a big time prize pot. Think Capcom Cup.
Yup. I wouldn't be shocked if Nintendo completely dropped esports from their radar once Smash 4 stops getting DLC and they no longer need to "sell" the game.
Their support of the Smash community has been awesome since E3 2014, but there's still so much more they could do. I'd like to see them host an actual Smash Bros. tournament with a big time prize pot. Think Capcom Cup.
Yup. I wouldn't be shocked if Nintendo completely dropped esports from their radar once Smash 4 stops getting DLC and they no longer need to "sell" the game.
Interceptor
Banned
This is embarrassing.
Even Microsoft has the Halo world championship. I agree though, riot and valve are the leaders with blizzard trying to play catch up. Do evo players even make anything close to what LoL csgo or dota players take in?
Because he would have lost?
It was a woo boy, glad I ducked that part of a tournament comment.
I'd be okay if Nintendo made a subsidiary of some kind for Smash much like there is for Pokemon. They could reach far and expand their audience with more regional/national tournaments. TPCI has official tournaments in over 40 countries so far with a world championship for the winners. Smash could use something like that.
Then I must have misheard. Still, my point stands on that it was a gladiator challenge as many were competing and using their skills and quick thinking to get through games they barely knew or just heard of.
Not even close as far as I know. Their prize pools are in the multi millions while pro players of fighting games rarely break the 100,000 mark. And that's the pot. They're fighting for scraps in comparison.
Exactly. And you barely hear about Pokemon stuff, too. What are the twitch numbers like for competitive Pokemon? Do they even stream official tournaments?
Smash should absolutely get that treatment.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That seems to be usual "we don't have the resources/interest to invest so we will talk down".
Is this prize pool stuff?
The Pokemon Company has a Twitch stream. The national tournament organizer (one of them anyway) is Alpha Zealot who owns both Smashboards and Squidboards.
Nintendo is dipping their toes in esports; they aren't betting on it by any stretch of the imagination. However I can see something coming out this where we get a nintendo esports league similar to what Capcom has done with the Capcom Cup and the Capcom Cup Pro Tour. They definitely have the games (Smash, Mario Kart, Splatoon) to pull off an interesting league with more on the way but right now they are treating it like fan service.
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