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[yo_john117]

Autovista mode is going to be amazing.

 

[soundscream]

I hope they have something good left to announce because these under the hood articles have been letting a lot of air out of the hype balloon.

 

[eso76]

so, wait..
September, the month of No porsche ! the month of no amalfi long ! no new york long ! (or even short lol!) no sidewinder, no bugatti le mans, no night, no weather and no a lot of cars that were in fm3 (it appears) !

Well, if that's the kind of special news awaiting us in september...
I am beyond pissed at Amalfi long being cut

i believe those expecting face melting announcements in september were simply lied to, and there really is nothing else, let's just hope there are no more CUTS at least..

Nice talk about physics though

 

[soundscream]

No night/weather was something I assumed. They would have been nice but no deal breaker. But losing tracks is not what I saw coming. I'm still upset at the tracks lost from fm1.

Feels bad man.

 

[saladine1]

This usually results in a wicked tank-slapper

Quote of the article!

We wanted physics info and we got it. Very detailed in all departments.

Son no night,no weather..only a small number of tracks get alternate time of day. So when does the monotony of sunny skies and dry surfaces end?

I don't care if there isn't any rain,storms or hail...they couldn't at least provide one wet track surface or dirt track or something for variation?

 

[eso76]

No night/weather was something I assumed. They would have been nice but no deal breaker. But losing tracks is not what I saw coming. I'm still upset at the tracks lost from fm1.

Feels bad man.

no deal breaker of course, i never thought they would be in in fact, but i must confess i started believing there were a couple spectacular reveals left...at this point i don't think that's the case.

Though with positano, new york and sidewinder missing, there's 3 more empty boxes to fill in the tracks page. Not that i'm expecting them to be filled with new tracks anyway

 

[Lakitu]

Really disappointed in the track list. I didn't like New York and wasn't bothered about Sidewinder. But they've removed Amalfi long?! And they've hardly added any substantial tracks besides Hockenheim, the Alps and Infineon. I expected more. Where's Bathurst, where are some of the best FM1 tracks like Pacific Shipyards?

And don't get me started on weather / night racing. I'm not really upset, but I had high hopes for all these things. There's too many games anyway this year, unfortunately it's going to have to be 2012 until I finally buy it.

 

[Mascot]

I got a Spa/Bathurst boner when I read:

There will be two environments available for DLC on Day 1

... which quickly deflated into a shrivelled acorn when it turned out these new environments (lol) were a fucking soccer pitch and a test track.

Know what fucks me off? The bullshit teases that lead absolutely nowhere, the "ooh.. we aren't talking about those just yet, wink wink" responses to direct questions about things like night and weather. It's fucking juvenile, and Turn 10 lose credibility when they pull shit like this. Come back Che, all is forgiven.

And CUTTING tracks/ribbons in a series that is fucking SCREAMING out for more? Makes perfect sense. NO IT DOESN'T.

One further thought: if one person in the GAF car club wins a unicorn, we all get to drive it, yeah? There will be no bullshit locking down of unicorns, will there? WILL THERE?

Saladine, dude, after today's news: it's time to piss or get off the pot. These chocolate/blossom hints - is there any substance to them or are they just a bit of fun? People need a spark of hope right now.

 

[Slayer-33]

Like Amusix pointed out I think the removal of some specific tracks must be really a performance problem and who knows? Maybe a clusterfuck problem too when you have 12-16 cars in tight ass spaces but I'm leaning with the probable performance problems because of the ibl.

You know what's encouraging at least? We know they'll be tracks for DLC in the long run.

That is pretty cool.

 

[Shaneus]

Like Amusix pointed out I think the removal of some specific tracks must be really a performance problem and who knows? Maybe a clusterfuck problem too when you have 12-16 cars in tight ass spaces but I'm leaning with the probable performance problems because of the ibl.

You know what's encouraging at least? We know they'll be tracks for DLC in the long run.

That is pretty cool.

We do?

 

[amar212]

Thins interview finally put some issues into perspective.

Thank you for the honesty T10, very welcomed.

But this one particular sentence is the essence of some things that are crucial for to many debates in the past and ones that will raise in the near future:

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible.

Thank you very much for this sentence T10. I guess some things will be more clear to many people now.

 

[AMUSIX]

You know what's encouraging at least? We know they'll be tracks for DLC in the long run.

How do we know this?

At this point, there will be Benchmark Ring (which, while being a fun playground, was a shitty racecourse) and a football pitch (which should have just been part of the Top Gear environment, or just part of Benchmark, instead of its own...which you KNOW they'll count when they advertise the total number of environments).

From there, we don't know that there will be any more track DLC, only that they'll do 10 cars a month (so that we can eventually have more cars than Forza 3 Ultimate).

If they do provide additional track DLC, I'm guessing we'll see one or two of the following:

-Bugatti the environment's already there, they already have done all the research and telemetry of the track, they just have to bring it up to Forza4 tech. This is also similar to giving us the Grand Prix track and Nurburgring.

-Positano this is a long shot, since their new engine might not be able to handle it at all. Still, they have the pieces, they just need to connect them

-Bathurst another long shot, but would be the 'real track' addition the way Road America was.

 

[AMUSIX]

Oh, and I agree that the no night and no weather isn't such a big deal. What IS a big deal is the really shitty way T10 handled this. The 'wait and see' bullshit they've been pulling since F4 was announced was simply uncalled for. They knew that weather and night was out a long time ago, not coming forward about it just made it so that they triggered a huge wave of disappointment across their community, the gaming press, and the eager detractors a month before release.

 

[eso76]

You know what's encouraging at least? We know they'll be tracks for DLC in the long run.

But we don't...

Actually, all the tracks being in disc 1 news (further) worried me a bit.

It could mean they haven't found a way to include additional tracks in career events.

Obviously, dlc tracks could still come with their own set of career events.


As for cars, I hope they only got rid of the worse fm2 models, even though those too had a high poly version that certainly required tons of work.
But I am afraid less important cars (like my beloved Citroen C4) are gone...

 

[duk]

my body is ready, bring it

 

[Ty4on]

But we don't...

Actually, all the tracks being in disc 1 news (further) worried me a bit.

It could mean they haven't found a way to include additional tracks in career events.

Obviously, dlc tracks could still come with their own set of career events.


As for cars, I hope they only got rid of the worse fm2 models, even though those too had a high poly version that certainly required tons of work.
But I am afraid less important cars (like my beloved Citroen C4) are gone...

The C4 was as far as I know not in FM2, would be strange removing a high quality (the interior was crap though) model. It was my first car in FM3, loved the digital dash

I think putting all tracks on one disc is to prevent separate online hoppers for people who have and haven't installed all tracks. Did you ever race on the ring online, or on Fujimi Kaido?

 

[Mascot]

Oh, and I agree that the no night and no weather isn't such a big deal. What IS a big deal is the really shitty way T10 handled this. The 'wait and see' bullshit they've been pulling since F4 was announced was simply uncalled for. They knew that weather and night was out a long time ago, not coming forward about it just made it so that they triggered a huge wave of disappointment across their community, the gaming press, and the eager detractors a month before release.

Agreed. Turn 10 are a great technical developer but a lot of their decision making and PR just leaves me bemused. It's like they are living in a bubble.

 

[eso76]

The C4 was as far as I know not in FM2, would be strange removing a high quality (the interior was crap though) model. It was my first car in FM3, loved the digital dash

wasn't in fm2 and it was a very good model (then again, even fm2 cars had their good model version in fm3) i am just afraid that not being a classic or a very important technical achievment of whatever sort, they might think there really isn't much appeal in including a 2008 (iirc) car.

 

[brotkasten]

As long as the full ring and the full Fujimi Kaido tracks are in, I don't buy the performance excuse for cutting tracks.

 

[drifter444]

First day of September tomorrow.

Brace for impact. Set faces to 'stunned'.

I am excite!

 

[Mascot]

As long as the full ring and the full Fujimi Kaido tracks are in, I don't buy the performance excuse for cutting tracks.

Maybe IBL doesn't cope with all the neon on NY very well. Maybe it gets confused.
And maybe all the ocean reflections on Positano have a similar effect.
And maybe Hockenheim will be fun.

 

[OrangeOak]

Thank you very much for this sentence T10. I guess some things will be more clear to many people now.

It was pretty obvious that night racing or weather were imposible to achieve at 60fps with vsync and with the level of track detail that Forza has.
Especially within that period of time.

 

[Shaneus]

I really just don't know why they're making the decisions to launch certain info when they do. If they got the "don'ts" out of the way, then they could spend months focusing on all the awesome shit they're doing. Instead, it's a month away and fresh in our minds is "no night racing, no weather, tracks removed, only 25 AV cars". If we'd known that just after E3, I think people would be a lot more forgiving.

PS. I still don't get why they'd take away tracks. NYC I understand, but the others... SMH.

 

[sechsterangriff]

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible.

Thank you very much for this sentence T10. I guess some things will be more clear to many people now.

I don't understand this. Why at least didn't they implement it on key tracks where it makes sense?

These two shots are from a 24h race on the Nrburgring, nothing but premium cars. Sure there are frame drops when it's raining, but for me seeing the sun rising in a long race still is so satisfying. But I'm not even asking for for rain or other weather effects or a dynamic day/night cycle. I just wish I could drive some key tracks (or sections of tracks) at night. Is it really that much to ask?

I'm a big fan of the PGR series, so no night racing at all is a huge deal breaker from me.

 

[eso76]

As long as the full ring and the full Fujimi Kaido tracks are in, I don't buy the performance excuse for cutting tracks.

amalfi is significantly more complex than both in terms of geometry and texture variety though, it's not just lenght.

Montserrat was very rich too...that might be the reason why they had to update it, maybe it's less detailed now ?

 

[eso76]

I really just don't know why they're making the decisions to launch certain info when they do. If they got the "don'ts" out of the way, then they could spend months focusing....

maybe that's what they did. September just started and hopefully we get a few reveals with don'ts out of the way

 

[Shaneus]

maybe that's what they did. September just started and hopefully we get a few reveals with don'ts out of the way

Hoping so. Maybe there's a few things that will really blow our skulls, but I doubt it. Pretty sure it's only going to be finer details of what we've already seen. Having said that, we haven't seen anything at all of tuning/customising... so there IS some hope that something along those lines will reel us back in.

 

[Slackbladder]

Thins interview finally put some issues into perspective.

Thank you for the honesty T10, very welcomed.

But this one particular sentence is the essence of some things that are crucial for to many debates in the past and ones that will raise in the near future:

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible.

Thank you very much for this sentence T10. I guess some things will be more clear to many people now.

Not sure if I buy that. I can't help but feel that knocking a game out every 2 years harms their actual development. Still, it was a lot to ask for.

 

[G Rom]

My thoughts about Under the hood 2 :

The gameplay changes and additions sound great, can't wait to try it !

Ditching NY and Sidewinder : Goood, very good !
Ditching Bugatti track and Positano : Not so good...

I seriously wonder what cars were dropped, 320 is a lot less than 405 (original FM3 car list). Porsche was "only" 35 cars, I just hope they got rid of racing duplicate and not of unique models... :/
I'm glad that all the tracks are on disc 1 though, this can only mean more races on the Nordschleife and Fujimi Kaido. Benchmark Test Track as Day 1 DLC also means that we'll probably see if Track DLC integrates in the career...

Also, fuck unicorns. There's now 14+3 of them ? I fear that in those 14 there will be some super rare cars IRL. I better be able to buy my 250 GTO from the Ferrari dealership when I have the credits for it, Turn 10 !

Sad about lack of night racing (didn't really care about weather, PGR4 spoiled me).

BTW, I've updated the OP with the new stuff.

 

[Neo 007]

If this is already known here,I apologise in advance.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/forza-motorsport-4/achievements/

 

[eso76]

Hoping so. Maybe there's a few things that will really blow our skulls, but I doubt it. Pretty sure it's only going to be finer details of what we've already seen. Having said that, we haven't seen anything at all of tuning/customising... so there IS some hope that something along those lines will reel us back in.

well, there's stuff being revealed at Frankfurt motor show and TGS, and we know it's not infineon or indianapolis.
The 'old open wheel' hint at least had little ambiguity, so we can at least look forward to those, maybe.

Honestly, not so sure about dark chocolate and cherry blossom now, maybe the source was not reliable ?
Saladine ? does the latest under the hood contradict any info you'd been given ?

 

[G Rom]

If this is already known here,I apologise in advance.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/forza-motorsport-4/achievements/

Yes, it was already known but I forgot to add it to the OP, thanks for reminding me.

 

[Mascot]

Hoping so. Maybe there's a few things that will really blow our skulls, but I doubt it. Pretty sure it's only going to be finer details of what we've already seen. Having said that, we haven't seen anything at all of tuning/customising... so there IS some hope that something along those lines will reel us back in.

I'd bet my mortgage that we already know all of the good stuff. The next six weeks will consist of six text descriptions a day of cars and (hopefully) the occasional screen shot of cars and tracks. Maybe the odd direct feed video, edited like a pop video so you can barely tell what's going on. I'm so expecting a full-frontal assault on all the "awesome" (not my word) Top Gear fluff.

I just pray that (after Porsche, day/night, weather, cut tracks, missing ribbons, borked achievements, av roster, etc) there are no more disappointing surprises to come.

Fuck, I need to focus on the good. Feeling really flat right now, like the wind has been sucked from my sails. And it's not necessarily the news that's done it: it's how Turn 10 have delivered it.

 

[eso76]

I seriously wonder what cars were dropped, 320 is a lot less than 405 (original FM3 car list). Porsche was "only" 35 cars, I just hope they got rid of racing duplicate and not of unique models... :/.

35 porsche including dlc or out of the box ?
if fm3 came with 35 porche's this means 50 cars were cut (which could be little and a lot, depending on WHAT cars were cut. There's probably more than 100 cars i've never driven in fm3)

they might be planning on including those in dlc. Maybe dlc will have X new cars and Y returning ones ?

Anyway, we're expecting a total of 90 new cars, of which only around 30 revealed so far ? or that's just garage reveals (not including lce and preorder stuff ?)

 

[fabricated backlash]

The weather and Night features might have been in testing for some time. Turn 10 might've tried to get it working but couldn't work it out in time or without compromising the 60 fps vsync goal. Especially Rain could have been a major problem to get right visually with the new lightning engine.

It's pure speculation of course, but it would explain the PR mess when dealing with those questions.

Still, the game seems to be choke full with content. Autovista with "only" 25 cars at launch seems a bit lacking, but then again, you have double commentaries of Clarkson, and that other guy (lol) There are simply limits with what you can do, and I actually think it's better to polish stuff you want to include into the game instead of releasing a half finished product.

 

[Shaneus]

I'd bet my mortgage that we already know all of the good stuff. The next six weeks will consist of six text descriptions a day of cars and (hopefully) the occasional screen shot of cars and tracks. Maybe the odd direct feed video, edited like a pop video so you can barely tell what's going on. I'm so expecting a full-frontal assault on all the "awesome" (not my word) Top Gear fluff.

I just pray that (after Porsche, day/night, weather, cut tracks, missing ribbons, borked achievements, av roster, etc) there are no more disappointing surprises to come.

Fuck, I need to focus on the good. Feeling really flat right now, like the wind has been sucked from my sails. And it's not necessarily the news that's done it: it's how Turn 10 have delivered it.

Agreed on all points. I don't see what other blows can be dealt, but I also don't see what else there could be that would be zomg amazing. I can't see them dropping the negatives in the middle of a hype campaign, only at the start or (stupidly) at the end, which would mean that yeah, this is the last of the big news... either positive *or* negative.

 

[saladine1]

well, there's stuff being revealed at Frankfurt motor show and TGS, and we know it's not infineon or indianapolis.
The 'old open wheel' hint at least had little ambiguity, so we can at least look forward to those, maybe.

Honestly, not so sure about dark chocolate and cherry blossom now, maybe the source was not reliable ?
Saladine ? does the latest under the hood contradict any info you'd been given ?

No not really. Remember the "torch is smoking" bit, as in 'Torch not needed as there is no darkness'...

I agree with sentiments here, that the marketing is once again an absolute failure. You're supposed to get the 'bad news' out of the way early on so you can concentrate on all the good stuff for the next few months or so. A lot of people would now be very disappointed with these revelations so close to release. Their hype level will come down hard.
Turn 10 need to tell/show some stuff to get the hype level back up again

 

[G Rom]

35 porsche including dlc or out of the box ?
if fm3 came with 35 porche's this means 50 cars were cut (which could be little and a lot, depending on WHAT cars were cut. There's probably more than 100 cars i've never driven in fm3)

they might be planning on including those in dlc. Maybe dlc will have X new cars and Y returning ones ?

Anyway, we're expecting a total of 90 new cars, of which only around 30 revealed so far ? or that's just garage reveals (not including lce and preorder stuff ?)

Sorry, I got it wrong it was 30 Porsche out of the box so yeah, 50 cars cut (my 405 figure isn't including day 1 DLC just like Dan didn't include it).
We actually know 65 new cars but this include pre-order and LCE content which isn't included in Dan's figure I think since he specifically talk about content on discs.

 

[eso76]

Agreed on all points. I don't see what other blows can be dealt

you can't upgrade cars

full lod models to be cut again from the final game because they made the framerate drop on some tracks

ooh, there's still tons of stuff !

 

[brotkasten]

Is it too early to say that "Forza 4 is what Forza 3 should've been"? Maybe they should switch to a 3 year development cycle. At least Forza 6 on the next box should be nice.

 

[LeBoef]

i like that article. gets to the point and explains why they do or dont do specific things.

the talk about bumps and tires (physics)is the most important part for myself. better simulation and custom public lobbies is almost everything a racer needs.

cutting bugatti is bad. dont care much about the other tracks. they were annoying. would be nice to hear a reason for cutting bugatti. amalfi was too much work for sure.

t10 never talked about weather or night, so i dont know how people can be dissapointed now. i didnt expect it and if they implement it i want it to be done well. as they say: not possible without compromises.

cutting porsche is really bad. i will miss all race car porsches ... but thats business...
no more porsche cup races on nordschleife.

less cars than fm3? if so, i dont care much since a lot of cars are just bullshit. especially the talk about station wagons is disgusting. dont forget to take your golden retreiver and picknick stuff with you...


so whats left? new real world tracks announcements (dlc) would be nice. some more talk about force feedback and wheels.


in my world, they fixed everything i hated about fm3. so i am amazed with fm4.
and maybe one day we get rid of fantasy tracks... why dont they remake real world roads. so everyone could drive through the rockies, the black forest or any other location.
fictional roads at real places suck.

 

[antiquegamer]

I really just don't know why they're making the decisions to launch certain info when they do. If they got the "don'ts" out of the way, then they could spend months focusing on all the awesome shit they're doing. Instead, it's a month away and fresh in our minds is "no night racing, no weather, tracks removed, only 25 AV cars". If we'd known that just after E3, I think people would be a lot more forgiving.

PS. I still don't get why they'd take away tracks. NYC I understand, but the others... SMH.

I think you guys are just overly focus on the negative. I didn't expect night racing, weather to be in (and I don't really care for those features) so I guess I don't feel it's something negative. I was only expecting 10 or so Auto Vista cars originally so 25 is double what I was expecting.

I think you guys just have your expectation set up so high, I mean serously it's only been two years since Forza 3. If you don't feel they have add enough feature, then wait out two years from now and get Forza 5.

As for track taken away, well they also add new tracks. Only one I might kinda miss is the long Amalfi but I don't care to go another lap on NY tracks.

My only disappointment is the removal of Porsches from Forza 4. May be this is because I like Forza and GT for the fact that I can get behind a wheel of different cars and tracks to drive them on is secondary for me.

 

[sechsterangriff]

t10 never talked about weather or night, so i dont know how people can be dissapointed now.

Just because they don't talk about it doesn't mean people can't have expectations.

 

[derFeef]

Is it too early to say that "Forza 4 is what Forza 3 should've been"? Maybe they should switch to a 3 year development cycle. At least Forza 6 on the next box should be nice.

I don't get your behaviour in this thread. Everything sounds and looks great so far, except some choices they made and PR shenanigans. We are getting a great game that's for sure and there is no reason to deny that.

 

[brotkasten]

I don't get your behaviour in this thread. Everything sounds and looks great so far, except some choices they made and PR shenanigans. We are getting a great game that's for sure and there is no reason to deny that.

Just because they don't talk about it doesn't mean people can't have expectations.

.

 

[SPEEDxNASTY]

Didn't expect to lose Amalfi long and Sidewinder, I'm probably one of the few who liked these tight and technical tracks because they felt like rally specials...
At least we finally know what we won't have and the reason why (night, weather).

Most interesting part was about the new re-balanced PI system (especially the AWD, remember the Audi S5 domination anyone?), physics and technical stuff.
Can't wait to drive the hell out of the cars on the Nurb and Fujimi!!!

 

[G Rom]

Never forget, biggest cocktease of this generation :

BTW, this is the known environments (as in Turn 10's environments, i.e Camino≠Ladera≠ Iberian) list so far :

1 Amalfi
2 Autodromo Internazionale del Mugello
3 Benchmark Test Track
4 Bernese Alps
5 Camino Viejo de Montserrat
6 Circuit de Catalunya
7 Fujimi Kaido
8 Hockenheimring
9 Iberian International Circuit
10 Indianapolis Motor Speedway
11 Infineon Raceway
12 Ladera Test Track
13 Le Mans - Circuit de La Sarthe
14 Maple Valley Raceway
15 Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
16 Nürburgring
17 Nürburgring GP
18 Road America
19 Road Atlanta
20 Sebring International Raceway
21 Sedona Raceway Park
22 Silverstone Racing Circuit
23 Sunset Peninsula Raceway
24 Suzuka Circuit
25 TopGear Test Track
26 Tsukuba Circuit
27 Twin Ring Motegi

 

[brotkasten]

Never forget, biggest cocktease of this generation :

Bu bu bu, why so many expectations!

 

[derFeef]

.

Aren't you constantly telling us that we should not have any expectations? And saying "at least Forza 6 should be nice" is a bit extreme, don't you think. I think Forza 4 is already going to be a nice game.

 

[saladine1]

you can't upgrade cars

full lod models to be cut again from the final game because they made the framerate drop on some tracks

ooh, there's still tons of stuff !

Lol, you can't paint the cars now because of IBL. Tuning is also gone as it impacts on the system because of IBL. Even IBL is gone now solely because of IBL.
Merry IBL to you all!!