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Forza Motorsport 4 - The Floodgates Have Opened...
- Thread starter G Rom
- Start date
shinnn said:
We thought about how people want to interact with cars, to move around one, open the doors, kick the tires, said Mr. Greenawalt. Our goal with this is to turn gamers into car lovers, and car lovers into gamers.
It's like the last two years never happened :lol
Needs more "incubate"..!
Spaceman Spiff
Member
user_nat said:
CONE CHALLENGES GODDAMN
soundscream
Member
At least he has the least flattering chin................in the world.Megasoum said:
Wow that picture of Jeremy is not exactly flattering lol. Was he attending a chin convention? lol
BrokenSymmetry
Member
Shaneus said:
And especially the medal system of PGR, where you could attack an event at any diffculty level you wanted, and work your way up. I still think that system is much more suitable for racing games than one global difficulty level (of which Forza has too few anyway).
shinnn said:
290 events (FM3 has 220)
Would it make sense to have the Top Gear (or TAPgr, as Wendl says) challenges integrated into the career mode? That might just be the grid purely for the TG challenges..!
Still not sure what to make of these 'challenges' and how well they fit into the whole Forza universe. They might be a fun distraction from the core racing or they might just be watered-down Gymkhana copies. I think I'll always be uncomfortable that the effort involved in making them could have been better spent elsewhere, like creating more actual racing circuits.
paskowitz said:
The unlimited cars thing is the 'overtake challenge' type event I believe..
This game looks really good, I'm quietly sitting here not getting hyped, I've done FM3/GT5 to death now, and am having a break from the more serious driving games just so this will be fresh when in lands.
i hate how he says yea theres 16 cars for racing now but thats not interesting what is interesting is having that many players in games like cat and mouse..i'm sorry but i know every true forza fan whos played since the first game is more excited about finally racing against 15 other opponents then a silly arcade minigame
Xanadu said:
Hard-core racing-only audience is not important marketing-wise.
We get our wheel support, no-assists mode and CPL's back and we're ready to go.
In order to cater game for the new audiences and make it accessible to wide variety of public you need fun modes. And you need to advertise them.
I see no real problem there. Talking about tire-temperature models will not push the sales, but talk about car football and cat-and-mouse could raise many eyebrows of people that played PGR and arcade racers.
It is not easy to sell serious racing game today. And if you find a compromise to make a game accessible to all types of players, you have the winner. I have nothing against rewind, Kinect driving, one-button driving and so on, as long as our "hard-core" aspect is not minimized.
Since we already know that FM4 will give everything - and even more - you can want from "serious" aspect of console racer, let them talk about anything they want. More they sell the game, more money they will have for funding and developing a new titles. So, it is Cat&Mouse all the way.
Never forget how B-Class RWD hoppers were killed after only 3 weeks of existence because such small amounts of players were racing it. on the other hand, all races where AWD Audi-Ubercars and AWD Viper-monstrosities could be used were overpopulated. Serious racing is the smallest part of overall population. If developers were making games only for serious players.. well, iRacing's 20.000 subscribers talks for itself.
well why not just go full arcade then if its all about the sales? i dont mind the half way stuff but it seems whenever i say they should make a full hardcore sim for consoles people say it wont happen because the sales would be poor..so sims are basically pointless then in terms of profit?amar212 said:
amar212 said:
I concur with everything you say, but for the love of God I hope the Top Gear challenges are accessed in a separate menu, totally distinct from the single-player race mode. Clumsily shoe-horning wacky challenges into the career grid's "serious" race events will totally devalue and dilute the simulation ethos that Forza is respected for. It was bad enough having to endure that ill-conceived and badly-implemented drag racing bullshit in the career mode last time. I don't think I could stand going from ten hard laps of Silverstone in a GT car to trying to launch a MkI Golf into the middle of a giant target.
If it helps with sales then by all means cater to the lowest common denominator, Turn 10, but please don't forget Forza's fundamentals in the process.
Psychotext
Member
Because going full arcade loses them fans of semi-sim racers... I'd have have thought that was obvious.Xanadu said:
I totally disagree with you on that one Mascot. FM3's career was terrible because it was all pure racing with the same rules and with the useless drag (I'm not against it but it shouldn't take more time to load than to race...) thrown in the middle. I actually want that diversity in the career. It will be nice to do some races and then change my mind with completely different and more lighthearted events.
@Neo 007 : No it won't, blame MS for that as I'm pretty sure Turn 10 would like to offer that.
@Snubbers : Yep, noticed the smoke too. Looks nice !
I just hope that the backward/forward in the replay works better. I'm sick of the small loading and not knowing where I'll end-up in the replay. Just copy PGR4 with the small slider allowing to scroll through the replay rapidly.
@Neo 007 : No it won't, blame MS for that as I'm pretty sure Turn 10 would like to offer that.
@Snubbers : Yep, noticed the smoke too. Looks nice !
I just hope that the backward/forward in the replay works better. I'm sick of the small loading and not knowing where I'll end-up in the replay. Just copy PGR4 with the small slider allowing to scroll through the replay rapidly.
flyinpiranha
Member
shinnn said:
Holy shit at that grass moving at the end of the bowling race. Hype.
Also, do we have confirmation on specific support for wheels or the adjust-ability therein? My GT2 wants to be used to its full potential!
G Rom said:
...which you could still do whenever you wanted simply by backing out of Career Mode and going to the TG Challenge section.
Forza CAN be a serious sim for the hardcore AND a pick-up-and-play arcade knockabout (let's face it - it already is) but the two don't necessarily need to be intertwined in some weird mixed-message juxtaposition. That's short step towards compromise and a slippery slope to mediocrity, I reckon.
flyinpiranha
Member
Mascot said:
I agree with this. I don't think many console sim racers did it but I know in one of the NFS I stopped playing because it took you to drift challenges and I loathe them.
Xanadu said:
In my personal opinion - yes, as long as this current "model" is in concern.
I written in few occasions about this particular problem that is interconnected to driving/racing genre in particular. I called that problem a "paradox point" and if you a re interested you can find my pseudo-elaboration here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25517212&postcount=89
Also, for additional small breakdown of thoughts regarding "casualisation" of the genre - G Rom's and mine - take a look here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26690070&postcount=208
Development/licensing budgets of racing games have hit the crazy heights even in the last generation. This generation practically made a total "cleansing" of the genre. Only the most profitable series survived while the only new contender to the simulation territory of this generation - NFS Shift - have been successfully executed by EA after poor sales of both games.
Also, there is whole another world grooming now regarding questioning current business model when you try to put the "paradox Point" into further context. Put aside "physical-media/digital download" question, I tend to think about "platformization" of the overall genre.
Personally, I see iRacing "model" as the future of the genre, where we will witness both Gran Turismo and Forza heading full-online, dividing in two separate incarnations: retail disc (media) games for casual players and corresponding subscription-based online community (such as iRacing is today). Disc (media) game will have the content for online and basic online features (such as we already have today in GT5 or FM2/3), but the real money and development of game lays in "platform". It is the only and logical way to assure the foundations interesting for long-term enthusiasts, and current state of GT5 offers a great insight of development to that model. Foundations that GT5 have built clearly indicates such transition is already in the works.
Making driving games an "platform" is the only way to somehow solve the Paradox Point of the genre and save it from "casualization". Actual single-player structure as we know it will certainly remain on disc (media) games, but only way to prolong and expand the game in long-term will be as described above.
Substantial amounts of money in constant-revenue lays in hands of hard-core community where retail of single-media (60 something-currency) is less important than long-term revenue based on subscription model.
Also, you can look even further and say that "subscription model" is already very alive in Forza series through DLC-policy. Official announcements were already made regarding having monthly-DLC for FM4 which pretty much will certainly generate additional revenue in total of more than "single-unit-game" for those who purchase all DLC.
Although I still can't understand why GT series still didn't took any advantage through DLC I can only presume it has something to do with personal philosophy of Yamauchi who was always speaking against any DLC-content in revenue-way. However, "platformization" is also already existent in GT5 in form of Seasonal Events and fully integrated online-options.
In conclusion, only the greatest franchises will survive this moment and will gain enough momentum to keep their content/quality in par with technology and "simulation" aspect. I could write another essay regarding implementation of business-model on PC simulation and that market, but since the numbers of actual players/subscribers/sold copies of PC driving simulations are really sub-par compared to console sales, they are not really so important in global outlook.
flyinpiranha said:
Hopefully the FFB with the GT2 will be more like GT5 levels than the weaksauce FM3 effects.
Maybe FFB was toned down for the MS wheel in FM3, and hopefully Fanatec are getting more consideration this time? I'd love it if I had to work against the wheel to keep the cars straight like I do in GT5. There are noises from Turn 10 about more track texture, more bumps, so I hope they deliver.
Psychotext
Member
Are there? Burnout didn't outsell Forza on the 360.Xanadu said:
Maybe multiplatform, but you're not talking about a multiplatform situation here.
Edit - Thinking about it, nor did the most recent NFS games.
Diablohead
Member
I keep getting thought of canceling my LE order, I don't really want it because it's just boring car packs and a nice coffee table car porn book, but at the same time I want it because I own the forza 2 and 3 LE's and not buying this would be an odd one out (not counting f1 since there was no LE in the uk for that)
£60 versus £35 too..
£60 versus £35 too..
I hope that for the Forza 5 they include a full-fledged career mode where all you do is just race....for a team that you've chosen to represent. Maybe after each racing season they could fit in a few light-hearted events that you do for your sponsors or celebrity appearances...perhaps only to the extent of drag races, Top Gear's Star in a Reasonably Priced Car, test drive a prototype vehicle.flyinpiranha said:
my english isnt the best but i think i get what you are saying mostly and you say great points, i remember a few years back when games like GTR2 and GTL came out and those were really pushing the boundries of physics at the time and i am sure they sold rather well so what happened? did people get more lazy and just want to easy win? like in forza 3 i liked the game but the unlimited rewind button meant you could not lose basically. i really wish forza would go fully simulation but i know it wont happen, i just hope GTR3 comes along and wipes the floor with everything (physics wise)amar212 said:
soundscream
Member
I Still BELIEVE
Xanadu said:
Because of the available RAM.
In single-player you have to use the RAM for AI scripts, while in online play there is no AI and you can "free" the RAM for graphics/physics of additional cars.
Same as in GT5 more-less, although there are few races in GT's single-player where you can race 15 cars but in almost 90% of races there are only 11 opponents.
Psychotext
Member
I'm trying to remember which ones ended up with 16 players and I'm struggling a bit... I know there were some. Maybe I'll have to boot it up later and have a look.amar212 said:
U n i o n 0015
Member
shinnn said:
290 events (FM3 has 220)
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
I was actually hoping for LESS challenges. Completing that grid was SO FREAKING BORING. It took my almost exactly one year from the release of Forza 3 to do so.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
That's only the first page.U n i o n 0015 said: