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[TylerDurden4321]

NERD-GRIPE: The performance of many of the FM6's race cars relative to their real-world counterparts is enough to seriously question the extent to which game's performance-modelling is based in reality, and I can't help but chuckle at the SkyActiv Mazda's PI rating compared to the DPs. 30-odd points up on them when it actually ran closer to, (and sometimes slower than), the GTLM cars.

Could be that the numbers for the Mazda indicate that it should be faster and Turn 10 gets those numbers from Mazda with probably not much they can double fact-check from other sources like Lola. Maybe this goes both ways for the Vette too just in the other direction.

Also, when I look up the actual real life times the differences between the fastest and the slowest Vette DP is 3.5 seconds, between the slowest Vette and the Mazdas is 5.4 seconds.
Maybe we should check the lap times in game and not just guess from the PI rating.

 

[G Rom]

Been a long time:

 

[Mascot]

Beautiful, G. Just beautiful.

Now watch them get quoted fifty times...

 

[frontieruk]

Been a long time:

1.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Lovely shots, G Rom! Looks like Mascot got his wish, too.

Also, when I look up the actual real life times the differences between the fastest and the slowest Vette DP is 3.5 seconds, between the slowest Vette and the Mazdas is 5.4 seconds.
Maybe we should check the lap times in game and not just guess from the PI rating.

You piqued my curiosity, so I went ahead and did a quick test; Given that I'm horribly inconsistent on Sebring in FM6, I ran 5 laps at Watkins Glen in the Corvette DP and Mazda SKYACTIV (both completely stock).

Best lap times in FM6:

Corvette: 1:41.003
Mazda: 1:38.391

(2.6 s advantage to the Mazda)

Best race lap times at the IMSA 6 Hours of the Glen:

Corvette: 1:39.832
Mazda: 1:44.330

(4.5 s advantage to the Corvette)

The game rates the 'Vette and Mazda a 932 and 961, respectively, so the PI is reflective of their actual pace, but hardly representative of how they ran in reality. As for why that is, you're right that there's an awful lot in terms of input data that we'll never know, so it probably isn't worth fretting too much over.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Best lap times in FM6:
(2.6 s advantage to the Mazda)

Best race lap times at the IMSA 6 Hours of the Glen:
(4.5 s advantage to the Corvette)

The game rates the 'Vette and Mazda a 932 and 961, respectively, so the PI is reflective of their actual pace, but hardly representative of how they ran in reality. As for why that is, you're right that there's an awful lot in terms of input data that we'll never know, so it probably isn't worth fretting too much over.

The slowest Corvette DP lap is right where your lap time is in FM6, that's pretty cool. As for the Mazda... I don't know, maybe it's something about Diesel engine in numbers and Diesel engine in real life... man, now I'm really curious how it performs in Gran Turismo 6, but there is no Watkins Glen in it.
Anyway, thanks a lot for doing this. Comparing racing games to each other and real life is a passion of mine.

 

[Demise]

Finally we did get the 488. Does that means no more dlc cars ? It's kind of disapointing we didn't have the i8 while it's certainly the most demanded car by the forza community on the official forum. I hope there's still a possibility. Any chances ?

 

[zorbsie]

Finally we did get the 488. Does that means no more dlc cars ? It's kind of disapointing we didn't have the i8 while it's certainly the most demanded car by the forza community on the official forum. I hope there's still a possibility. Any chances ?

There may be more DLC packs, but that will be outside of the car pass. Cue the folks who will complain about buying the ultimate edition and not getting all the DLC. Forza 4 and 5 both had additional packs after the car pass ended. So it's a pretty good assumption that there may be more.

 

[terrible]

Anyone upset over Forza DLC prices would probably die if they saw how DLC cars are priced with PC sims. $12 a car with iRacing.

 

[TheAdmiester]

The XJR9 is an absolute beast. I (admittedly in a tuned X-class one) managed my first ever lap under 6 minutes on the standard Nordschleife. It has an immense amount of grip/downforce and torque, I was shocked when I checked on the telemetry and saw 0 boost, meaning the V12 is entirely N/A, but it explained why it felt so smooth. Must have been crazy when it first hit the track in 1988.

In other news, when I set said time on the Nurb, I reached rank 100 and got 10,000,000cR in the prize spin, which is awesome.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Finally we did get the 488. Does that means no more dlc cars ? It's kind of disapointing we didn't have the i8 while it's certainly the most demanded car by the forza community on the official forum. I hope there's still a possibility. Any chances ?

I think the way the ca works is preventing Turn 10 from dong it. All the other hybrids are either entirely RWD or AWD, the kInetic energy recovery is not simulated. The i8 is electro front and gasoline rear wheel drive. They could opt for just rear wheel drive, but I don't think people would be happy.

Anyone upset over Forza DLC prices would probably die if they saw how DLC cars are priced with PC sims. $12 a car with iRacing.

I'm really not here to defend iRacing's pricing, but the comparison is unfair as there won't be an iRacing 2 or 3 or whatever. Raceroom would be better suited for comparing, there the average car costs 3.40 and a track ~5 but packs make it a lot cheaper and the more you buy at a time the higher the discount for that transaction. There will probably be a raceroom 2 though some day and you might have to buy everything all over again. All the other PC sims are cheaper for offline gaming.

 

[Mascot]

It's kind of disapointing we didn't have the i8 while it's certainly the most demanded car by the forza community on the official forum. I hope there's still a possibility. Any chances ?

It's gorgeous, no doubt. I'm generally not a fan of hybrids and electrics in car games because of how weak the audio is, though. I need something to get my BK2 shaking the walls and punching me in the back.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

It's gorgeous, no doubt. I'm generally not a fan of hybrids and electrics in car games because of how weak the audio is, though. I need something to get my BK2 shaking the walls and punching me in the back.

The real i8 simulates better engine sound via the internal speaker system.
Now I wanna see that clueless kid that changes camera view while driving the i8 in FM6 and going from 1.5L 3 cylinder sound outside the car to V6'ish VROOOOM inside the car.
(it has some exterior sound augmentation too, but that's more to warn pedestrians than to sound cool, I think?!??)

 

[Demise]

I think the way the ca works is preventing Turn 10 from dong it. All the other hybrids are either entirely RWD or AWD, the kInetic energy recovery is not simulated. The i8 is electro front and gasoline rear wheel drive. They could opt for just rear wheel drive, but I don't think people would be happy.

I hear what you say, but I'm sure they can do it if they want to. I'll gladly pay for the extra work if it's a non-car pass car, I see no problem. Never understand why they did not add the SQ5 or the X6 M too. This is what I like about Forza, you can drive "tourism" car (X6 M is something like 4sec 0/60 though) in it, shame they do skip on the most common and more popular ones.

 

[Shortt Sirket]

I hear what you say, but I'm sure they can do it if they want to. I'll gladly pay for the extra work if it's a non-car pass car, I see no problem. Never understand why they did not add the SQ5 or the X6 M too. This is what I like about Forza, you can drive "tourism" car (X6 M is something like 4sec 0/60 though) in it, shame they do skip on the most common and more popular ones.

I feel like they have started to divide the cars up a bit more between Horizon and Motorsports in that way. Some of the more odd and different cars are going to be saved for the next Horizon since they sort of make better sense in those games.

 

[Klocker]

Love how they prioritized race cars of all types and eras in this version...

Really happy with the final selection of cars amazing really

 

[danowat]

Got to hand it to T10, the breadth and depth of their car roster is second to none, bravo, March car pack is great.

Now if only the actual racing was up to scratch, we'd have a truly special game.

As a car museum / curio / road test simulator, it's second to none, as an actual racing game, hmmm.....

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Now if only the actual racing was up to scratch, we'd have a truly special game.

As a car museum / curio / road test simulator, it's second to none, as an actual racing game, hmmm.....

We had this discussion over and over. I think the "highly-skilled"-"expert" drivatar difficulties are kinda representative of how the average Forza buyer drives - in that case the opponents feel alife and not like you drive against actual GT drivers that have been bribed to lose. The other thing that turns the more hardcore players and motorsport fans off is the "no qualifying, just 3 laps, third or better to progress"-thing, but if Joe Average bought a Forza or GT he will want to try at least ~15% of the car selection but isn't interested to play the game for more than 20-30 hours. If John Hardcore wants longer races, is ok with getting 10th place and wants good AI, he can do that in Free Play. If Forza was more hardcore and less production car focused, fewer people would buy it, Turn 10 and MS would make less money and we would get less cars, worse graphics(or framerate) and more jank. This would also leave less room for games like pCARS and AC to shine and sell well on consoles.

What Forza could and should do better in the motorsports department is try to nail the feel of GT and LMP type cars better in handling, road/tyre-feel and sound. Add seat position and FOV options, maybe option qualifying in free and online play and that's about all you can ask of Forza in my opinion (edit: and have a not drivatar based AI option like in the showcases for free play). If you want more, you need to go to a different game or change Forza so much that it wouldn't be Forza any more. Could be that this is what Gran Turismo is doing with GT Sport, we will see if that's the case and how it will be received. It'll be interesting.

Edit2: Personally I'd like some different challanges in Forza. There are many games that give you "race car on real world circuits". Why not some normal A to B roads (or hillclimb), eco challenges, replicate movie stunts and chase scenes, a fine-tuning school that teaches you about stuff like camber and anti-roll bars... manage virtual team of drivers, I don't know, stuff like that! You should have a better sense of "progression" (a story or unlocking things or feeling of mastery) and in-between you need some fun (but not bowling-dumb!) things to do that feel different and let yout take a time-out (in GT this idea is called a "coffee break challenge" which is a good title in my opinion, optional stuff that changes the pacing).

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Some great suggestions there. Everybody seems to have their own ideas of what they want from Forza which makes me think it's going to stubbornly stick to exactly what it's doing.

That's not a bad thing if you take each game as a separate entity but as a series I wonder for how long it is sustainable.

 

[zorbsie]

GT Racing series

Modern GT division, MAX PI: R865

2006 Aston Martin #007 Aston Martin Racing DBR9
2014 Audi #45 Flying Lizard Motorsports R8 LMS Ultra
2014 Bentley #7 M-Sport Bentley Continental GT3
2014 BMW #55 BMW Team RLL Z4 GTE
2014 BMW #56 BMW Team RLL Z4 GTE
2009 BMW #92 Rahal Letterman Racing M3 GT2
2014 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing Corvette C7.R
2014 Dodge #93 SRT Motorsports Viper GTS-R
2014 Ferrari #51 AF Corse 458 Italia GTE
2014 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione 458 Italia GTLM
2011 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F458 Italia GTC
2014 Lamborghini #14 GMG Racing LP 570-4 Super Trofeo
2014 Lamborghini #18 DragonSpeed Gallardo LP 570-4 Super Trofeo
2014 McLaren #60 Bhaitech 12C GT3
2014 McLaren #98 ART Grand Prix 12C GT3
2011 McLaren #59 McLaren GT 12C GT3
2014 Mercedes-Benz #84 HTP Motorsport SLS AMG GT3
2011 Mercedes-Benz #35 Black Falcon SLS AMG GT3
2015 Nissan #1 NISMO MOTUL AUTECH GT-R
2011 Porsche #45 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR
2013 SRT #91 SRT Motorsport GTS-R

Remember, the car you pick will be the car you are stuck with for the whole series. This applies to both races and time trials.

Standard info for new comers:
Race day schedule:
We will have a 4 lap practice race with collisions off. You will try to get your best time in this race. The real race will use best lap times in ascending order for grid placement. Collisions will be always on, make sure to turn off sim damage on your end.

As always the lobby will be up at 3:00pm Eastern Sunday. The race should take 15 - 20 minutes to finish. After the race feel free to stick around and do more races with the group.

Can't make it on Sunday? Join in the fun by doing this weeks time trial. Post your best time on this weeks track before the race on Sunday to be included. Points will be given on time trials as well as the actual race.

Sunday race will be Silverstone GP
Don't forget that the car you use in time trial is the car you use on race day. Also the car you pick is the car you keep for the whole series.

Who can join?
Anyone on GAF is more than welcome to join. Just picked up FM6? leave me your GT and I'll send you an invite on race day. Simple as that.

Questions/Suggestions? I'm all ears.

 

[Demise]

Got to hand it to T10, the breadth and depth of their car roster is second to none, bravo, March car pack is great.

Now if only the actual racing was up to scratch, we'd have a truly special game.

As a car museum / curio / road test simulator, it's second to none, as an actual racing game, hmmm.....

Wait, you're suggesting that the driving feel is not the best ? I drive cools cars on weekly basis, and so far Forza -6's premium car are very close to the real cars. Maybe you're speaking about something else like qualification before race or something like that ?

 

[danowat]

Wait, you're suggesting that the driving feel is not the best ? I drive cools cars on weekly basis, and so far Forza -6's premium car are very close to the real cars. Maybe you're speaking about something else like qualification before race or something like that ?

In terms of road cars, I'd agree, driving feel is pretty good, slick tyres, not so much, but I am more talking about the way racing itself is presented and plays out, it's just not very fun (for me).

 

[Mascot]

We had this discussion over and over. I think the "highly-skilled"-"expert" drivatar difficulties are kinda representative of how the average Forza buyer drives - in that case the opponents feel alife and not like you drive against actual GT drivers that have been bribed to lose. The other thing that turns the more hardcore players and motorsport fans off is the "no qualifying, just 3 laps, third or better to progress"-thing, but if Joe Average bought a Forza or GT he will want to try at least ~15% of the car selection but isn't interested to play the game for more than 20-30 hours. If John Hardcore wants longer races, is ok with getting 10th place and wants good AI, he can do that in Free Play. If Forza was more hardcore and less production car focused, fewer people would buy it, Turn 10 and MS would make less money and we would get less cars, worse graphics(or framerate) and more jank. This would also leave less room for games like pCARS and AC to shine and sell well on consoles.

What Forza could and should do better in the motorsports department is try to nail the feel of GT and LMP type cars better in handling, road/tyre-feel and sound. Add seat position and FOV options, maybe option qualifying in free and online play and that's about all you can ask of Forza in my opinion (edit: and have a not drivatar based AI option like in the showcases for free play). If you want more, you need to go to a different game or change Forza so much that it wouldn't be Forza any more. Could be that this is what Gran Turismo is doing with GT Sport, we will see if that's the case and how it will be received. It'll be interesting.

Edit2: Personally I'd like some different challanges in Forza. There are many games that give you "race car on real world circuits". Why not some normal A to B roads (or hillclimb), eco challenges, replicate movie stunts and chase scenes, a fine-tuning school that teaches you about stuff like camber and anti-roll bars... manage virtual team of drivers, I don't know, stuff like that! You should have a better sense of "progression" (a story or unlocking things or feeling of mastery) and in-between you need some fun (but not bowling-dumb!) things to do that feel different and let yout take a time-out (in GT this idea is called a "coffee break challenge" which is a good title in my opinion, optional stuff that changes the pacing).

All good points but is there even a desire any more (or even a requirement) for FM to cater to racing fans when other games now fill that void very nicely? Speaking personally, FM's stubborn denial of motorsport authenticity was a constant source of irritation for me, no matter how much I loved the franchise. But that was because there were no comparable alternatives on Xbox, with only Shift and Race Pro getting close. Now that games like Project CARS and Assetto Corsa are in the mix I'm a lot more comfortable with FM existing in its own little category, although I do still think that a separate 'hard core' mode with proper points and rules would take relatively little effort and that its omission is a missed opportunity of gargantuan proportions.

Wait, you're suggesting that the driving feel is not the best ? I drive cools cars on weekly basis, and so far Forza -6's premium car are very close to the real cars. Maybe you're speaking about something else like qualification before race or something like that ?

What FFB wheel do you use?

 

[JorgePinto]

Right? I need a Silk Cut Livery like STAT!

There you go:

Search it by my GT: JorgePinto

 

[GHG]

Got to hand it to T10, the breadth and depth of their car roster is second to none, bravo, March car pack is great.

Now if only the actual racing was up to scratch, we'd have a truly special game.

As a car museum / curio / road test simulator, it's second to none, as an actual racing game, hmmm.....

Basically.

It's got to the point now where I just fire the fame up for an hour or 2 to mess around with the new cars but it's never hooked me back in due to the way the races are structured along with the AI behaviour. The on the track experience is horribly lacking IMO and it's unfortunate considering the bredth of the cars on offer.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Now that games like Project CARS and Assetto Corsa are in the mix I'm a lot more comfortable with FM existing in its own little category, although I do still think that a separate 'hard core' mode with proper points and rules would take relatively little effort

This is exactly my point. Forza should do the easy and little things to not abandon the race and non-production car fanbase, but it doesn't need to focus on that. That's not Forza's main appeal.

Wait, you're suggesting that the driving feel is not the best ? I drive cools cars on weekly basis, and so far Forza -6's premium car are very close to the real cars.

Why "premium"? If by "premium" you mean the cars that allow you to look under the hood in Forzavista, then I can't see that I feel a difference to any normal cars in the game.

About car feel: I'm among the few here that have a wheel and like Forza's FFB, but it absultely feels nothing like a real car would feel. Forza's FFB is going for the "replace the missing senses"-approach in that it gives you information when your rear is going spin off as you get closer to the edge of grip (replacing the "seat of pants" feel from real life). Other games give you options to have either that or a direct feel of tyre forces transported from road through tyres to your wheel (or a mix of both). The later makes the FFB like driving a real car with bumps and kerbs spinning your wheel, acceleration understeer that will suddenly make the wheel turn very light etc.
What other racing games have you tried with a wheel?

 

[Shortt Sirket]

There you go:

Search it by my GT: JorgePinto

I love you

 

[RawNuts]

but it's never hooked me back in due to the way the races are structured along with the AI behaviour.

After a few ForzaGAF races, I was less concerned with AI behavior and more concerned with GHG behavior.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

What Forza could and should do better in the motorsports department is try to nail the feel of GT and LMP type cars better in handling, road/tyre-feel and sound.

Pretty much. It's always hard to go back to race cars in FM6 after driving many of the same models in pCARS or AC. The physics of slick tires just feel off, and the aero model rather simplistic. Short of overhauling their simulation engine, simply offering different slick tire compounds would be a marked improvement over the one-size-fits-all approach at present.

Being able to simulate hybrid powertrains, along with KERS, DRS and related systems would be a big step forward as well. If these are absent by means of the 'engine limitation' that kept open-wheel cars out of Forza for so long, perhaps it's just a matter of time until these technologies are simulated.

Also, I'd like to see race cars removed from the PI-based class system. Go back to the FM2 setup and leave the 100-998 system for road cars, but have the racers grouped by actual classes, i.e. GT1/2/3, and historic variations thereof. Forza's breadth of cars nowadays would make populating most categories a non-issue.

There you go:

Search it by my GT: JorgePinto

I was waiting for you to work your craft on this. Top-notch work as always!

Any chance for a proper Rothmans livery for the 962? Although given the work involved, I'd completely understand if the slightly censored version in the game is close enough to not justify the effort.

 

[danowat]

Fun!

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Danowat32/video/15782735

 

[JorgePinto]

Any chance for a proper Rothmans livery for the 962? Although given the work involved, I'd completely understand if the slightly censored version in the game is close enough to not justify the effort.

Yup, it's my next work, currently on it! Thanks BTW

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Fun!

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Danowat32/video/15782735

P3 is secretly the best car in the pack.

Yup, it's my next work, currently on it! Thanks BTW

Oh. Em. Gee.

Can't wait. Cheers!

 

[danowat]

P3 is secretly the best car in the pack.



Oh. Em. Gee.

Can't wait. Cheers!

It's not secret

what's up with the 488GTB?, handling is really weird.

 

[gragy10]

2.07.262 for the time trial this week so far - pretty great using a car with a shred of mechanical grip after last week

 

[TylerDurden4321]

It's not secret

what's up with the 488GTB?, handling is really weird.

When I first tried it in Driveclub, I thought "this is inferior to the 458 in every way not measured in hp numbers, this can't be how thing feels for real". Now in Forza the car feels "ok" but the huge low-end rpm power tells me that it's made to be driven with electronic driving aids and not primarily for the track(nice downforce though). Games that focus on production cars really need better simulation of driving aids and suspension systems or you can't have an idea of how a modern car really would drive. I can understand that it must be hard to get information from manufacturers of how these systems are programmed and what they do in which scenario, but at least give the player some more options than on/off.

I'm repeating myself like an old man, it's the same thing I said before Forza 5 and Horizon 2 and when I saw the first shots from the driving aid menu in FM6... I should stop beating that drum and keep it to myself.

 

[danowat]

When I first tried it in Driveclub, I thought "this is inferior to the 458 in every way not measured in hp numbers, this can't be how thing feels for real". Now in Forza the car feels "ok" but the huge low-end rpm power tells me that it's made to be driven with electronic driving aids and not primarily for the track(nice downforce though). Games that focus on production cars really need better simulation of driving aids and suspension systems or you can't have an idea of how a modern car really would drive. I can understand that it must be hard to get information from manufacturers of how these systems are programmed and what they do in which scenario, but at least give the player some more options than on/off.

I've never driven one, or a 458 come to that, but I have driven plenty of high performance road and track cars, and how the 488 handles in FM6 surprises me, it almost feels like an AWD car, with a lot of mid corner power-on understeer, maybe they had to bork the cars physics to take into account the driving aids on the real car?

 

[TylerDurden4321]

it almost feels like an AWD car, with a lot of mid corner power-on understeer

I've only done 5 laps at sonoma with a lot of evelation changes int the corners, but that is not what I got from that car. For me it was "even dare to LOOK at the gas pedal and you start spinning out". Maybe I'll give it another try on Silverstone GP.

 

[jello44]

2.07.262 for the time trial this week so far - pretty great using a car with a shred of mechanical grip after last week

I think I have 2:08.004 right now, using a different car from last week.

 

[danowat]

I've only done 5 laps at sonoma with a lot of evelation changes int the corners, but that is not what I got from that car. For me it was "even dare to LOOK at the gas pedal and you start spinning out". Maybe I'll give it another try on Silverstone GP.

Bizarre, I drove it at Catalunya GP and could hardly get the tail out, no assists BTW.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Bizarre, I drove it at Catalunya GP and could hardly get the tail out, no assists BTW.

I tried it on Silverstone, you are right. On-power understeer! I don't really know what lead me to my first impression, maybe it really were the elevation changes or maybe it was me leaving off the gas abruptly mid corner to correct (along with the 2nd gear burnouts that car is capable of), which is really deadly in that car. In any case, not an easy to drive car, which is not what I'd expect from the car that is supposed to replace the 458.

 

[danowat]

I tried it on Silverstone, you are right. On-power understeer! I don't really know what lead me to my first impression, maybe it really were the elevation changes or maybe it was me leaving off the gas abruptly mid corner to correct (along with the 2nd gear burnouts that car is capable of), which is really deadly in that car. In any case, not an easy to drive car, which is not what I'd expect from the car that is supposed to replace the 458.

From Autocars review (with assists off I reckon)

It has an astonishingly forgiving chassis, with hardly a hint of understeer early in a corner, and extremely fast but communicative steering, and when it breaks traction, which it does gladly, it adopts a hopelessly easily controlled attitude and then regains grip cleanly and communicatively.

Doesn't sound anything like the car in Forza, I think that the car is modelled with all the assists on, even if they are off in game, I also noted that there is no damage on the car.

I think Ferrari may have had a specific set of rules to allow this car into the game/s?

 

[TylerDurden4321]

From Autocars review (with assists off I reckon)



Doesn't sound anything like the car in Forza, I think that the car is modelled with all the assists on, even if they are off in game, I also noted that there is no damage on the car.

I think Ferrari may have had a specific set of rules to allow this car into the game/s?

In GT5 my favorite 2 cars with a controller were the Skyline (obviously, it's a PD game, duh) and the 458, they were precise and forgivable. Switching to Forza 5, I even liked the supposedly widow-making, trail-blazing F40 more than the 458 (again, with a controller). I bet both games get the same data from Ferrari and research the same car magazines and part suppliers, but they rarely get a hands on and some of the systems that make a car handle like it does just can't be modeled by what these games have working under the hood.

A car magazine hands-on doesn't mean much neither. Ferrari wouldn't just give them a car to test, they ask them where they want to test it and when, then set up the car perfectly for that course before it's handed over and the test will not be representative for a car bought at your local dealership.

I also remember EVO having not the very kindest words left for 488 in their car of the year testing.


Edit: here is what I mean with missing electronic driving aid systems, seems like the 488 is a really good example: https://youtu.be/sxb_oFsT5j4?t=7m20s
Edit2: The car has damage modeled - physically and visual. I also don't think that it's modeled with assists on. It's the other way around. In the real world the car has assists that can't be turned off, like the real-time magnetic-damper adjustments and torque vectoring e-Diffs engaging the brakes asymmetrically to help you turn in or stabilize the car. Without those automatic damper stiffening aid the car is setup really soft and its weight shifts too strongly to the back under acceleration (->understeer), get off the gas abruptly or even brake to avert that and the weight shifts to the front strongly resulting in the said deadly oversteer.

I don't doubt that you could tune that out though.

It's not a terrible (ouch) understeer though. I thought it was kinda fun. But the thing is that Ferrari wouldn't make a car that handles like that. I'm practically driving a different car. Same if I tune it out under the cost of out-of-the corner acceleration because of a stiffer rear for example.

 

[terrible]

I played around with the 488 for a bit and I'd agree that it tends to understeer, at least without tuning it and with assists off. I was only getting oversteer on really slow corners. I don't doubt that you could tune that out though.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Jello44, found a thread looking for you.

 

[jello44]

Jello44, found a thread looking for you.

Ewww SAO

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Ewww SAO

Sad Anime Otaku?

EtA: Going to miss tomorrow's race to drive SWMBO to the airport.

 

[JorgePinto]

Oh. Em. Gee.

Can't wait. Cheers!

Enjoy!

 

[terrible]

Well that's pretty much flawless, damn. Very well done. I'm going to go grab both of those now.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Enjoy!

I most certainly will!

The car looks as it should now. I really appreciate all the effort you put into authentic liveries and the precision of your logo work. Barring the unavoidable issues caused by the game's mapping errors, this is flawless work. Thanks again!

 

[JorgePinto]

Thanks a lot!

But since I always forgot one thing after uploading...I had to reupload it again, sorry for the inconvinience. The 17 number on the front was missing, and I decided to add the remaining pilot names in a smaller scale on the sides. The updated pics are now in my latest post.