Support NeoGAF

[Colbert]

It looks like the loot boxes and the VIP controversy might have made the difference between a 90+ Metacritic score and a 89- Metacritic score for Forza Motorsport 7.

It's a shame, really. I wonder if Microsoft realizes that.

I don't get the thing about the loot crates. Those are completely optional.

 

[Fox Mulder]

This is where I'm at too. I understand why some might not like them, but they haven't had any negative impact on how I play the game. I've approached it like I would any other Forza. Some of the mods have added a fun extra gameplay challenge which I've enjoyed.

I've been playing the game like I always have and don't see the issue either. The game is fucking obnoxiously designed around loot boxes and reminds you at every chance to go buy some, but I haven't been forced to use them.

 

[cakely]

I wonder if they care as much as some gamers do about one metacritic point difference.

I assure you that the publishers and developers do care about a 90+ metacritic score.

Publishers have been known to give their developers a bonus if a game release hits a certain score:

https://kotaku.com/5893595/why-are-game-developer-bonuses-based-on-review-scores

Yes, that article is from 2012, but it's just one example.

One point, especially when it's at the 90 boundary, could make a huge difference for the developers.

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

I never once changed the difficulty settings in any Forza with a view to earning more credits. I change the difficulty to make the game stay fun as I get better at it. The rewards increasing is a happy coincidence.

You're right I should've said it takes out part of the satisfaction. It's a reward that's always been there and for me has added value to coming in first after ratcheting up the difficulty.

 

[GeordieMark]

I assure you that the publishers and developers do care about a 90+ metacritic score.

Publishers have been known to give their developers a bonus if a game release hits a certain score:

https://kotaku.com/5893595/why-are-game-developer-bonuses-based-on-review-scores

Yes, that article is from 2012, but it's just one example.

One point, especially when it's at the 90 boundary, could make a huge difference for the developers.

Well, I've worked first and 3rd party publishing and never saw anything that stupid. You're making stuff up, or relying on outdated facts

 

[Resident_UA]

I never once changed the difficulty settings in any Forza with a view to earning more credits. I change the difficulty to make the game stay fun as I get better at it. The rewards increasing is a happy coincidence.

I wonder why they added that feature in the first place .

Modifying difficulty slightly and receiving some sort of reward for it is the feature I constantly use in driving games. No, the credits are not that important, but the balance between the reward you get and the difficulty increase is what makes the game more fun. Even a simple thing like seeing % change helped me to decide how much of an impact the toggle has on game difficulty.

Well, I've worked first and 3rd party publishing and never saw anything that stupid. You're making stuff up, or relying on outdated facts

yes, he made that article up. went back in time and made it up.

 

[cakely]

Well, I've worked first and 3rd party publishing and never saw anything that stupid. You're making stuff up, or relying on outdated facts

You got me. Are there any other articles you'd like me to add to 2012? I'm pretty good at this.

 

[Trup1aya]

I never once changed the difficulty settings in any Forza with a view to earning more credits. I change the difficulty to make the game stay fun as I get better at it. The rewards increasing is a happy coincidence.

I guess rewards that increase with risk being a source of satisfaction is a foreign concept to some.

Its not lost on turn10, though. They've simply traded risk that is mitigated by skill with gambling- making improvement less satisfying for many users.

 

[E92 M3]

The loot boxes are fine, but what they did with the VIP pass is truly scummy.

 

[GeordieMark]

You got me. Are there any other articles you'd like me to add to 2012? I'm pretty good at this.

Go nuts buddy. It’s your time you’re wasting. 2012 was a long time ago.

 

[HoJu]

Go nuts buddy. It’s your time you’re wasting. 2012 was a long time ago.

The developer of the game said himself that they would've gotten a bonus if it got over 85 on metacritic

 

[Karak]

Eurogamer mentioned it as has Karak (see above).

It will never be fixed as long as people continue to turn a blind eye to it. Good thing we have rewind though right guys so you can simply reverse the obnoxious AI ramming you into a wall and damaging the fuck out of your car!

----

Metro UK review:





http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/03/forza-motorsport-7-review-the-looting-of-gran-turismo-6973381/

I hate rewind. I mean I love it, as I want new gamers to be able to jump in, but like a god code it changes the entire way the game feels so I also hate it

 

[NullPointer]

I hate rewind. I mean I love it, as I want new gamers to be able to jump in, but like a god code it changes the entire way the game feels so I also hate it

I made a point of only using it when the AI slammed into me in previous games, but I would run into a lot of weirdness, where once I'd resumed after a rewind at least one AI car would just shoot right off the track and into the grass or wall.

Wonder if they've tweaked the way that works at all, because not only did it feel like a cheat to use it, but it could take one of the cars ahead of you out of the picture ta boot.

 

[gamz]

I assure you that the publishers and developers do care about a 90+ metacritic score.

Publishers have been known to give their developers a bonus if a game release hits a certain score:

https://kotaku.com/5893595/why-are-game-developer-bonuses-based-on-review-scores

Yes, that article is from 2012, but it's just one example.

One point, especially when it's at the 90 boundary, could make a huge difference for the developers.

It's one example. No way this is at all common, if it is it's seriously embarrassing.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

I just watched the Inside Sim Racing not-review/somethingsomething-in-progress. It's really weird. I don't believe Billy the AI is sooo bad and I don't believe the STM makes the car feel better even when it shows as currently not engaged/intruding.
Also "the FFB is improved, good you have options to turn off understeer effects"?? That was in FH3 and Apex already and he doesn't give the game shit about FFB "center-spring"?? A racing game which's FFB can only be endured with center-spring effect on is just ...awful. You're Inside SIM Racing, if you're not calling this legacy FFB garbage out, then who will in their review.

 

[Karak]

I made a point of only using it when the AI slammed into me in previous games, but I would run into a lot of weirdness, where once I'd resumed after a rewind at least one AI car would just shoot right off the track and into the grass or wall.

Wonder if they've tweaked the way that works at all, because not only did it feel like a cheat to use it, but it could take one of the cars ahead of you out of the picture ta boot.

ahahah. Oh I can't remember that happening. But sometimes I was using it when the other cars were treating me like a bumper car lol. So I may have missed it

 

[GHG]

Review from the Inside Sim Racing guys... Agree with this review, playing with the SC off is garbage(I have hope that is a rare bug) and the IA is pure trash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmbCZPJ1WBw

Best review I've seen yet of this game.

I hate rewind. I mean I love it, as I want new gamers to be able to jump in, but like a god code it changes the entire way the game feels so I also hate it

Rewind removes all consequence.

So as a mechanic I actually believe it does more harm than good to the mindset of new players. People learn quicker when their negative actions have consequence. Rewind actually reinforces people's bad habits in these games unfortunately.

Hence online in Forza is pretty much the worst online racing you will find in any racing game.

 

[Mascot]

Rewind removes all consequence.

So as a mechanic I actually believe it does more harm than good to the mindset of new players. People learn quicker when their negative actions have consequence. Rewind actually reinforces people's bad habits in these games unfortunately.

Hence online in Forza is pretty much the worst online racing you will find in any racing game.

I've always thought they should tie rewind into your saved profile and limited it to the first Xno hours of gameplay, or the first Xno hours on each track. It's meant to be a training aid, isn't it? Not a permanent crutch or get-out-of-jail card.

 

[The Elite]

I've always thought they should tie rewind into your saved profile and limited it to the first Xno hours of gameplay, or the first Xno hours on each track. It's meant to be a training aid, isn't it? Not a permanent crutch or get-out-of-jail card.

People already complain about frustrating progression in racing games. If they have to redo a race entirely because of one screw up on the track they will probably just drop the game altogether.

It's absolutely meant to be permanent.

 

[Mascot]

People already complain about frustrating progression in racing games. If they have to redo a race entirely because of one screw up on the track they will probably just drop the game altogether.

It's absolutely meant to be permanent.

How on earth did we ever manage without it?

 

[JackAubrey]

I'm a filthy casual that using rewind all the time.

 

[NullPointer]

I'm a filthy casual that using rewind all the time.

I don't use it anymore but it was really helpful when I was first learning how to tackle certain turns - especially late/multiple/blind apexs and chicanes. Like the racing line, its cool that its an option, but its also good advice to players to try and run without them if they're interested in improving further.

 

[JackAubrey]

I don't use it anymore but it was really helpful when I was first learning how to tackle certain turns - especially late/multiple/blind apexs and chicanes. Like the racing line, its cool that its an option, but its also good advice to players to try and run without them if they're interested in improving further.

When I was younger and had hours and hours to spend tuning NASCAR 2000 vehicles I might have got on my high horse about rewind.

But today it's a tiny hill I'm not willing to die on. Games are meant to be fun. And I've no time for the "hardcore" telling others how to have fun. It's taken a while to get to this point, mostly becoming a dad and seeing my kids play games.

 

[LordBaztion]

I'm a filthy casual that using rewind all the time.

as a casual racing player, I just can't play a racing game without it.

 

[funroll-loops]

I don't use it anymore but it was really helpful when I was first learning how to tackle certain turns - especially late/multiple/blind apexs and chicanes. Like the racing line, its cool that its an option, but its also good advice to players to try and run without them if they're interested in improving further.

Regarding the racing line, I wish they had a compromise that worked like the gear indicator hints in Gran Turismo or the pace notes in rally racing games that would just display icons with some sort of cornering estimate. The racing line is super distracting when I'm trying to find a good line instead of using the game's and all I really want is a reminder about where the corners are when I'm on a new track.

 

[D'ultimate]

Regarding the racing line, I wish they had a compromise that worked like the gear indicator hints in Gran Turismo or the pace notes in rally racing games that would just display icons with some sort of cornering estimate. The racing line is super distracting when I'm trying to find a good line instead of using the game's and all I really want is a reminder about where the corners are when I'm on a new track.

Don't they have it so that you can adjust it to show you only in the corners or when to brake? Not the full line the whole time. Something to that effect.

 

[JackAubrey]

Don't they have it so that you can adjust it to show you only in the corners or when to brake? Not the full line the whole time. Something to that effect.

Yes, it's called the "braking line" in Forza.

 

[Fess]

Games are meant to be fun. And I've no time for the "hardcore" telling others how to have fun. It's taken a while to get to this point, mostly becoming a dad and seeing my kids play games.

Yup. I use it too occasionally, mostly when the AI cars has taken me out for no logic reason and I think it's perfectly fair to use the rewind at those situations. I don't rewind when I mess up on my own though, a loss gives you money too so going too fast through the campaign will only give you money issues, some losses here and there makes you develop better driving skills too.

 

[GHG]

When I was younger and had hours and hours to spend tuning NASCAR 2000 vehicles I might have got on my high horse about rewind.

But today it's a tiny hill I'm not willing to die on. Games are meant to be fun. And I've no time for the "hardcore" telling others how to have fun. It's taken a while to get to this point, mostly becoming a dad and seeing my kids play games.

Kids have it easy these days

 

[WadeitOut]

I like how we have people telling people why they should be mad about loot crates when the people say the loot crates being there have zero impact on them playing the game.

That's not how human emotions are suppose to work.

 

[Sändersson]

Edit moved the question to OT.

 

[jdmonmou]

Destructoid review gave this a 6/10

 

[Fess]

Destructoid review gave this a 6/10

lol
I can accept Petter Hegevalls 7/10 since I know how critical he can be but 6/10? Just no, that's hilarious, it's by far the best Forza this generation and I doubt they gave FM5 and FM6 5/10.

 

[ethomaz]

lol
I can accept Petter Hegevalls 7/10 since I know how critical he can be but 6/10? Just no, that's hilarious, it's by far the best Forza this generation and I doubt they gave FM5 and FM6 5/10.

9 and 9.5.

But that was Cris Carter and Dale North... not Peter Glagowski.

 

[stoke1863]

so i just got done playing the demo,

Some background info...

I have played every Forza on a pad (4 is the best) and always enjoyed them, Since 6 came out in the last few months i have moved into owning a Logitech G29 (entry level wheel) and picked up games like Project Cars, Asseto Corsa and F12017. So you could say i have delved into more indepth simlulation models.

I dont know why, but i always thought of Forza as a hardcore sim racer, but OMFG since coming back to try Forza7 i cant believe how bad the handling is compared to what im now use to.

The FFB is absolutely horrendous i have no feeling for what the car is doing what so ever, There is such a strange weight transfer effect as you go through corners it feels like your car is in a tank slapper. The Porsche race was so bad i couldn't even bring myself to finish it.

I dont know what it is possible the tyre model but there is such a strange understeer sensation through fast corners, cars just feel absolutely lifeless and its really hard to sense where the limits of the car are (all assists off)

but the absolute worst is the AI, they are a joke! even with limit aggression on they just slam into you with 0 appreciation for racing craft. When you are racing them they are simply obstacles in your way, they dont race you back or battle you they simply just smash into the back of you.

Jumping back into Assetto Corsa it is like night and day in terms of a handling model. I think i will get PCars2 soon.

Forza 7's presentation is fantastic but its handling model leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[frontieruk]

so i just got done playing the demo,

Some background info...

I have played every Forza on a pad (4 is the best) and always enjoyed them, Since 6 came out in the last few months i have moved into owning a Logitech G29 (entry level wheel) and picked up games like Project Cars, Asseto Corsa and F12017. So you could say i have delved into more indepth simlulation models.

I dont know why, but i always thought of Forza as a hardcore sim racer, but OMFG since coming back to try Forza7 i cant believe how bad the handling is compared to what im now use to.

The FFB is absolutely horrendous i have no feeling for what the car is doing what so ever, There is such a strange weight transfer effect as you go through corners it feels like your car is in a tank slapper. The Porsche race was so bad i couldn't even bring myself to finish it.

I dont know what it is possible the tyre model but there is such a strange understeer sensation through fast corners, cars just feel absolutely lifeless and its really hard to sense where the limits of the car are (all assists off)

but the absolute worst is the AI, they are a joke! even with limit aggression on they just slam into you with 0 appreciation for racing craft. When you are racing them they are simply obstacles in your way, they dont race you back or battle you they simply just smash into the back of you.

Jumping back into Assetto Corsa it is like night and day in terms of a handling model. I think i will get PCars2 soon.

Forza 7's presentation is fantastic but its handling model leaves a lot to be desired.

The Porsche is just bad...

 

[Mascot]

so i just got done playing the demo,

Some background info...

I have played every Forza on a pad (4 is the best) and always enjoyed them, Since 6 came out in the last few months i have moved into owning a Logitech G29 (entry level wheel) and picked up games like Project Cars, Asseto Corsa and F12017. So you could say i have delved into more indepth simlulation models.

I dont know why, but i always thought of Forza as a hardcore sim racer, but OMFG since coming back to try Forza7 i cant believe how bad the handling is compared to what im now use to.

The FFB is absolutely horrendous i have no feeling for what the car is doing what so ever, There is such a strange weight transfer effect as you go through corners it feels like your car is in a tank slapper. The Porsche race was so bad i couldn't even bring myself to finish it.

I dont know what it is possible the tyre model but there is such a strange understeer sensation through fast corners, cars just feel absolutely lifeless and its really hard to sense where the limits of the car are (all assists off)

but the absolute worst is the AI, they are a joke! even with limit aggression on they just slam into you with 0 appreciation for racing craft. When you are racing them they are simply obstacles in your way, they dont race you back or battle you they simply just smash into the back of you.

Jumping back into Assetto Corsa it is like night and day in terms of a handling model. I think i will get PCars2 soon.

Forza 7's presentation is fantastic but its handling model leaves a lot to be desired.

I had a similar experience TBH. The trick is to not think of FM as a sim racer any more, which I *think* actually fits Turn 10's revised identity for the game. Dan Greenawalt used to always promote the simulation aspects of FM but has been very quiet on that front for the past few years, and it's evident that the franchise now lags way behind Assetto Corsa, Project CARS or even Gran Turismo on traditional simulation aspects. I don't think FM is even trying to compete as a simulation any more. Think of it as sitting somewhere between Assetto Corsa and Driveclub and you'll have a much happier time with it. It's fun and looks gorgeous, but it's no sim in the common understanding of the term.

 

[Fat4all]

Easy Allies Review

 

[Wiped89]

I'm a masochist who likes the slower progression of old Forza and old GT, so honestly the loot boxes have benefitted me in that way.

Even then the old games were still harder to earn in than FM7 is now. I wonder if they'd be called a grind fest if they came out nowadays?

I kinda agree. I remember playing GT3 and GT4 and grinding the first cup like 10 times to get credits for a better car.

There's no comparison to the grind of the old days.

On Forza Horizon 3 I have 7 million credits and that's after spending 4 million on one car aha.

 

[ResidentDante]

I kinda agree. I remember playing GT3 and GT4 and grinding the first cup like 10 times to get credits for a better car.

There's no comparison to the grind of the old days.

On Forza Horizon 3 I have 7 million credits and that's after spending 4 million on one car aha.

I'd go so far as to say I enjoy grinding towards parts alone! Especially in the first hours of playing!

I love the concept of buying an old banger from the 80's, then have to race to just swap about the gears or something and actually FEEL the difference. I guess I just miss the old GT1-4 games and the Sega GT ones too. I'd love to see Forza take that route in a mode made like that, they could just offer a "cheap" thrills mode alongside it for casuals who don't want that. Just keep cars earned in each mode separate!

 

[JackAubrey]

I agree but also like the new system.

Perhaps rather than removing the new system, we could have another side campaign that's all about taking shitty cars and working on them, like the old system.

 

[sam777]

I bought the Renault F1 car, what a thrill.

 

[Brandon F]

Easy Allies Review

Agreed with a lot of Bloodworth's take. Though I probably would have dug in a bit harder in the actual campaign progression, which is both lazy and dull. But it seems he came to a similar conclusion regarding mods and loot-crates as I(basically there reaches a point where their utility is at an impasse with the ROI).