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Forza Motorsport | Review Thread

What's the average score Forza Motorsport will get on Metacritic?

  • 95 - 100

    Votes: 5 3.9%
  • 90 - 94

    Votes: 24 18.6%
  • 85 - 89

    Votes: 72 55.8%
  • 80 - 84

    Votes: 24 18.6%
  • 75 - 79

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • 70 - 74

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • <70

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    129
  • Poll closed .
So you agree that all the reviews were above the average for PS sites for Horizon and you'll see that isn't the case for Forza. Seems you're talking sht.

Who cares about reviews/aggregates anyway.

The difference between an 88 and 90 is only two points. Of the PlayStation sites I counted, I know at least two of them gave it a 9/10, so they were close to the MC average.

And yes at the end of the day aggregates shouldn't matter all that much. Personally it doesn't influence what I buy or think of a game from a personal POV whatsoever. However, they obviously have a lot of importance to publishers and most gamers, so we have to talk about them.

It absolutely matters; if ~half of the places reviewing PlayStation games are only reviewing PlayStation games, regardless of the name of the site, then there's strong evidence suggestion of a bias. And since the actual crux of this debate is whether or not scores are inflated by sites that are biased toward a particular platform, you would have to question whether or not those 60-ish sites have a bias toward PlayStation, thus inflating the scores of PlayStation games.

Who are these 60-something sites with a bias towards PlayStation games, and scoring them highly just because of that? Because that didn't help games like The Tomorrow Children or Days Gone, did it?

Also it might get difficult to distinguish between what's just a preference versus a bias, but I think we can both agree that if a Sony 1P happens to get higher review scores than a similar/equivalent Microsoft 1P, and that's across the board of sites providing reviews, then at some point you have to acknowledge the Sony 1P is just likely, seen as the objectively better game.

And, if so, then it's not a bias out of wanting to inflate one score over the other. It's likely because the game can just be considered accomplishing its goals and measuring up to peers objectively better than the similar Microsoft game. It happens more often that way than the inverse, there's 10 years of software releases to back that up.

God of War Ragnarok has 8 PS focused reviews. 149 total. 5.3%

Starfield has 11 Xbox focused reviews across both PC and Xbox. 158 total 6.9%. (Xboxygen doesn't count, as it has no review score), neither does IGN Brasil because obviously, I included Xboxera from the PC sites.

You are complaining about 3 sites. Remove 3 random sites and the score drops by what, a point? Probably not even that when you combine the PC and Xbox scores.

I'm not counting PC with Starfield, because PC is a different platform. It is a non-console platform, therefore the things we're talking about here in this context aren't really applicable in the PC gaming space.

For GOW:R I counted all websites with PlayStation in their name or anything explicitly referencing PlayStation, such as DualShockers. You're getting 8 because you're stretching that to include three other sites that I otherwise didn't count. If you want to include sites that may simply be PS-leaning, sure, we can do that. But it also means with the Starfield example, I'd have to add more sites to that list, such as Stevivor.

Even going with the way you've done it, and unless you could account for the three other sites you added for GOW:R, it's still a higher percentage for Starfield. Again, I never said this wasn't an issue with PlayStation or Nintendo. It's just a more frequent problem with Xbox.
 

Sacred

Member
Any reviews posted from the major sites I now add a point due to the very, very real xbox tax. These "journalists" really have showed their hate for Xbox since the June showcase. They used to try and hide it but since Starfield released its blatantly obvious.
A point, try 5.
 

Zathalus

Member
I'm not counting PC with Starfield, because PC is a different platform. It is a non-console platform, therefore the things we're talking about here in this context aren't really applicable in the PC gaming space.

For GOW:R I counted all websites with PlayStation in their name or anything explicitly referencing PlayStation, such as DualShockers. You're getting 8 because you're stretching that to include three other sites that I otherwise didn't count. If you want to include sites that may simply be PS-leaning, sure, we can do that. But it also means with the Starfield example, I'd have to add more sites to that list, such as Stevivor.

Even going with the way you've done it, and unless you could account for the three other sites you added for GOW:R, it's still a higher percentage for Starfield. Again, I never said this wasn't an issue with PlayStation or Nintendo. It's just a more frequent problem with Xbox.
I'm counting both PC and Xbox because it's the same game, even Opencritic does this. The PC Metacritic score also has only one Xbox aligned site but has a higher overall rating despite that. Picking one or the other would just be reinforcing a bias. If I would to pick the PC version, not only is it higher rated but it only has the one score from a biased source.

As for the PlayStation side of things, not all PS focused sites are that easy to spot. Play Magazine is one example. I counted ones that do only one platform coverage, be it PlayStation or Xbox (not totally accurate, everyone counts Windowscentral as a Xbox focused site, but it is PC. It gives games like God of War a 10/10 while Redfall enjoyed a 6/10).

The difference in number of focused outlets between the two is academic. Remove three 9/10 scores from almost 160 would not even drop the score by a single point.
 

Fess

Member
Critic reviews from the big established sites basically don't mean anything to me, outside of how they contribute to wider online discussion about the game. I've been finding reviews from Youtube channels to be more my bag.

Actually, just watching some early-game footage is enough for me to see for myself if the game's something I want or not. That's what I did with HFW, for example, that's why I ended up picking the game up a couple weeks after it released. Most review outlets feel less like informing curious buying customers and more like preaching to the choir, or appeasing already set-in-their-ways fanbases.

What would be great is if aggregates like MC focused on working with platform holders, and platform holders with review outlets, in getting a good mix of reviewer types based on the goals of the game. And that, instead of the weighing being based on outlet size, be based on the primary market objective for the game. So a game which is a hardcore sequel in a niche franchise, that mainly wants to appeal to the enthusiasts in that fanbase and little more, should have the majority of the reviewers be hardcore/enthusiasts fans of the franchise, which should in turn have the most significant weight to the average. You still get some more casual fans of the IP to review it, and newcomers who aren't fans (or even fans of the genre it's in) to review as well, but their scores would weigh less since the game itself isn't trying to expand out beyond appeasing the core fanbase that already exists.

So then, the review outlets who are able to get reviewers that can fit certain required criteria, get placed in a certain bracket on a first-come-first-serve basis. That still gives a weight favoring certain outlets, but the outlets themselves will change depending on the game. It also should mean a standard baseline of total reviews have to be met, depending on the game size. Indie games need a lesser number of mandatory reviews, while bigger AAA titles would need more. Then you determine out of that number, the different brackets in terms of reviewer type, based on the main market goals of the game in question, and the outlets who have reviewers fitting those brackets can fill them so the minimum of mandatory reviews is hit. Maybe even lock review submissions after that target is hit, but open up re-submissions if the game gets significant updates that could change initial impressions.

That would be the ideal type of way to set up an aggregate IMO. Oh, and any sites with "Xbox", "PlayStation" or "Nintendo" in their names are automatically disqualified 😁
Agreed 👍

Interesting topic!

I think multiple opinions on the big websites would help. It’s absurd to see one person write a review that is supposed to be what a whole gaming outlet think about a game. It’s just one opinion. I can’t even state what my own family think about pizza. It’s all about taste.

No joke, an average score from a group of 100 multi-platform owners on GAF would be a more correct score than any score out there.

Problem is, most people have platform preferences.
How can that be erased from the equation?
No idea.

Maybe a Nintendo fans average can be used for Nintendo games? And an Xbox fans average for Xbox games? And a Playstation fans average for Playstation games?

Would likely inflate scores but would at least be relevant for the people who actually plan to play the games.

A Playstation fan reviewing Xbox games and Xbox fan reviewing Playstation games helps exactly no one. It’s like listening to an atheist reviewing the Bible.


Anyhow!…
On topic, seems like Turn 10 yet again stumble on the campaign. And there is no way a Forza sim game without a VR mode is going to get a high score from me. Oh well I’ll play and see what it’s like once it’s out on Gamepass.
 

jayj

Banned
It is hard for me to trust any critic reception seeing how they all praised GT7 despite it being live service with microtransactions, and guess what, this is another live service racing game.
 

tmlDan

Member
It is hard for me to trust any critic reception seeing how they all praised GT7 despite it being live service with microtransactions, and guess what, this is another live service racing game.
I think its cause GT had better core mechanics from what im seeing, MTX can be fixed and changed (which GT changed fast). It's much harder to fix all the problems im seeing in forza, Super GT laid out a lot of them
 
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Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Ok. I’m not even sure why we are going on about this, lol. I was just pointing out how the one thumbnail was very click baity.

I have absolutely zero affinity for the FM franchise. I’ve played some. I’ve always enjoyed GT more. I’m not calling out anyone for bias, other than that single thumbnail.
Your instinct serve you well. Jimmy so called review is 80% of him not having is wheel setup and silly editing like he is Flamingo or whatever the name is, that Youtuber my kids watched when they where 7. The other gut they mention Super GT seems to quite like it.
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
It is hard for me to trust any critic reception seeing how they all praised GT7 despite it being live service with microtransactions, and guess what, this is another live service racing game.
That and GT7 had horrible tracks. They fixed the obvious GAAS shit but you can't fix a bad track. And now Forza has shallow new additions and poor SP content.

Both franchises fucked up lol
 
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I'm counting both PC and Xbox because it's the same game, even Opencritic does this. The PC Metacritic score also has only one Xbox aligned site but has a higher overall rating despite that. Picking one or the other would just be reinforcing a bias. If I would to pick the PC version, not only is it higher rated but it only has the one score from a biased source.

As for the PlayStation side of things, not all PS focused sites are that easy to spot. Play Magazine is one example. I counted ones that do only one platform coverage, be it PlayStation or Xbox (not totally accurate, everyone counts Windowscentral as a Xbox focused site, but it is PC. It gives games like God of War a 10/10 while Redfall enjoyed a 6/10).

The difference in number of focused outlets between the two is academic. Remove three 9/10 scores from almost 160 would not even drop the score by a single point.

Fine. Well, now you are kind of highlighting another problem then when it comes to reviewing MS games, and applies in general, not just to specific sites with 'Xbox' in their name or heavily lean towards Xbox. That problem is the inconsistency in reviews accurately reflective of the platform splits.

Like others have said earlier, the reviews industry as a whole has a problem with reviewers getting versions of games to review, which don't reflect the Day 1 experience paying customers end up getting. That affects online-centric games the most, because reviewers get to play without the real-world server load regular people have to put up with. But now when talking about MS 1P titles, we get review splits that can be on platforms the majority of actual customers don't have, but the reviews themselves don't account for that.

Starfield is, again, a perfect example of this to some extent, both in a good way and a bad way. Good, because we see the Xbox scores and PC scores, and since the game runs better on PC (even if that means just brute-forcing your way to better performance), the score for PC was higher. But there's little in the reviews on Xbox distinguishing between the Series X and Series S, and with many Xbox games this gen the S version has had notably worst performance across the board, when almost all the console reviewers are using the Series X version. In other words, for Series S owners, those Xbox scores are usually not worth what they say they are, and they should probably deduce by 3-4 points to get what that score would've been if the game was reviewed using a Series S.

The reason I was focused on just PS5 and Series X with GOW:R and Starfield, is because that evens out the playing field. GOW:R doesn't have the benefit of also releasing Day 1 on an open-spec platform where you can brute-force results way above the console. Starfield has that advantage, and that advantage can directly result in higher scores, but scores only reflective of the real-world playing experience of a small fraction of customers.

Agreed 👍

Interesting topic!

I think multiple opinions on the big websites would help. It’s absurd to see one person write a review that is supposed to be what a whole gaming outlet think about a game. It’s just one opinion. I can’t even state what my own family think about pizza. It’s all about taste.

No joke, an average score from a group of 100 multi-platform owners on GAF would be a more correct score than any score out there.

Problem is, most people have platform preferences.
How can that be erased from the equation?
No idea.

Maybe a Nintendo fans average can be used for Nintendo games? And an Xbox fans average for Xbox games? And a Playstation fans average for Playstation games?

Would likely inflate scores but would at least be relevant for the people who actually plan to play the games.

A Playstation fan reviewing Xbox games and Xbox fan reviewing Playstation games helps exactly no one. It’s like listening to an atheist reviewing the Bible.


Anyhow!…
On topic, seems like Turn 10 yet again stumble on the campaign. And there is no way a Forza sim game without a VR mode is going to get a high score from me. Oh well I’ll play and see what it’s like once it’s out on Gamepass.

On the multiple opinions stuff...definitely agreed. Gaming magazines used to do that all the time; EGM, GamePro, GameFan you name it. You always had 3-4 people weighing in equally and that would give an overall average. It's just an objectively better set-up than delegating a review to a single individual.

Getting platform preferences out of the picture is almost impossible, but I think it can be minimized greatly. Anyone who's got a history of shitting on one particular platform should probably not be allowed to do any reviews that weigh to any aggregates, for starters. You simply can't trust them. Otherwise, ensure everyone has at least two systems if not more, that's a good way to weed out single-console owners who may as a result have a bias against platforms they don't own.

And then from there, you try getting a mix of reviewers who fit the criteria of whatever the game's marketplace performance goals are. If it's just appealing to hardcore fans, make sure most of the reviewers are hardcore fans. If it's trying to expand out to new audiences, make sure most of the reviewers are new to the IP or genre. Keep a standard, fixed baseline of reviews needed in total, and decide the selection of reviewer types based on it.

It'd require more work, but it would be worth it. And also for getting back on track, I'll also be giving it a try once it's in Game Pass. People are probably thinking I've got some hateboner against the game but that isn't the case. Already said there are things it's doing I feel better than GT7 does (chase cam, rain weather effects, particle effects on the camera in chase cam, fully 3D trackside objects).

Just think overall the claimed massive leap in quality FM was supposed to represent (according to some of the mega-fans) just isn't there. And that's okay.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
I think I heard once practice starts you can pause and quit to skip it?
Thats it, once you start practice hit pause go to exit then go to skip practice

Holy cow guys just let me have the option right off the bat to skip practice

Philadelphia 76Ers Basketball GIF
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
90+ easy. Damn GAF can be so negative about MS exclusives, while REEEEEEEEEEEE is now a Xbox Fandom Heaven lol.
I hate racing sims and prefer arcade racers like Need for Speed...but Gran Turismo and Forza are just....like magnificent pearls. The Horizon games in Forza, I never cared about but the Motorsport ones just hit on a different level and dare I say? They kinda hit harder than GT in the last few installments of these franchises.

This is going to score bigly. No doubts.

Clearly I was right on both Starfield and Forza. You can always bet on me!
 
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tmlDan

Member
Super GT's review didn't lay out many problems. He said everything the game did was great but not super amazing or industry leading.
he complained about the collisions, the physics, the AI, those are much harder to fix.

Go watch his GT review, his complaints are easily fixable design decisions.
 

mako

Member
I'm really enjoying the handling with the deadzones all set at 0-100, sim steering and all assists off - much prefer it to GT7 with a controller at least. Besting the mini sectors is also super satisfying.

Overall it's better than the last Forza, remains to see how long it'll keep my interest though.
 
What a load of shit. Embargoes are there to achieve mass market drive and to minimize the margin between impulse purchase and educated consideration, and that’s largely it. But I’m sure even publishers have started believing in their own bullshit at this point.
I think every game journalist who deals with writing reviews would disagree with you. But your entitled to your opinion.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
=
A YouTuber I enjoy to watch from time to time called it a "A PLATFORM WITH POTENTIAL".

Well, fuck, I don't want to play a platform, I want to play a finished game. On top of that, you're paying for potential not for what's here and now. This is so, so sad.


This is every sim out there. Now whether this and stuff like GT7 are sims or not is debatable but the expectation should be that there isn't one single feature complete static game. That ship sailed a long time ago.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
This is every sim out there. Now whether this and stuff like GT7 are sims or not is debatable but the expectation should be that there isn't one single feature complete static game. That ship sailed a long time ago.

Forza Motorsport 4 shipped with a career that offered 1000+ events. This new entry is 1/10 of that. FM4 had more tracks, modes, you name it.

If they would release a product like FM4 and build upon that, I wouldn't mind it.

It just makes me sad.
 

Elysium44

Banned
They used word promised and I was like HELL YEAH IT WAS PROMISED. Are they taking a piss now or what?



I missed that. Turn 10 are up to their bad old tricks again, promising stuff and then not delivering. They've done this so many times.

I also heard on reddit that the game no longer keeps track of your stats for various things that the old FM games did. FH5 actually was similar, it also didn't track basic stuff like how many online race wins you had. I mean how hard is it to program stuff like that? It isn't hard at all, it takes five minutes. It's either sheer laziness or just more dumbing down. The game is clearly, to me, not deserving of more than 6/10 on release. Sure, there is the 'potential' for it to be better later. But what's here right now is mediocre and uninspired.
 
Please don't attack me but for the Xbox reviews....eight sites (out of 63) with 'Xbox' in the name scoring it 80 or higher. Five of them giving it a 90 or higher. Nine such outlets technically, if you want to throw Windows Central in the mix. Just continuing a thread of thought with Zathalus Zathalus on this one.

None such on the PC side but, for reasons already mentioned earlier, I think Xbox and PC should be treated as two separate platforms meaning their reviews should also be treated as unique to each platform.
 
Do you even play racing games bro, first Jimmy now supergt....

Get an education dude :p
Didn’t jimmy also help in gt sport or gt 7 tho in development?
Ok. Is he YouTube famous or something? I don’t recognize him. Just saying that’s the kind of thumbnail used to get clicks. You know that.
don’t worry bout it. As for jimmy, he great. But I believe he did help with some stuff when it come to gt sport or gt7. Can’t remember he was part of development. As for super gt. Mine well just throw is final verdict out the window. Cause if that the case. Every gt game after 3 and every forza game after 4. They should all be 6 or 7 score then. But It his opinions thru the video of the game is spot on beside maybe the ai part. Only cause reviewers all saying the same thing really. Loving the ai once it an open racing, but hate it when they all bunch up. But every one of there videos. I kinda see they’re doing the same thing and it not helping their case on it. But I could be wrong. Till I play it this weekend. Think I got a good idea why or what the ai doing this and that for. Maybe. If I’m wrong bout it. Then they right bout it
 

Zathalus

Member
Please don't attack me but for the Xbox reviews....eight sites (out of 63) with 'Xbox' in the name scoring it 80 or higher. Five of them giving it a 90 or higher. Nine such outlets technically, if you want to throw Windows Central in the mix. Just continuing a thread of thought with Zathalus Zathalus on this one.

None such on the PC side but, for reasons already mentioned earlier, I think Xbox and PC should be treated as two separate platforms meaning their reviews should also be treated as unique to each platform.
Not sure why you would treat them separately. The only real difference at the moment (other then really basic mods) is 30fps vs higher (depending on hardware, not always either).

Opencritic bundles everything together and that is a 86. PC Metacritic is 86, Xbox is 84. Seems like calling it a 85 game on aggregate seems reasonable.

For Forza it makes sense to bundle the scores together as well, as it has a RT 60fps mode.
 

amigastar

Member
I see many "honest" Impressions/Review of Forza on yt. Gonna decide after watching them if i'm installing it.
I just love "hardcore" racing sims and flight simulators so i don't know if the game is for me.
 
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Overall very positive reviews. I’m happy to hear the multiplayer and physics are getting much praise. Those were the areas I was most interested in. Can’t wait to play it. Might have time to head to another country tonight…
 
I see many "honest" Impressions/Review of Forza on yt. Gonna decide after watching them if i'm installing it.
I just love "hardcore" racing sims and flight simulators so i don't know if the game is for me.
Forza Motorsport has always been at/around Gran Turismo in regards to simulation. Not a hardcore sim by any means, but more sim than not. If you’ve played GT, then that should give you an idea of what to expect.
 
A gaas game currently at 84 this is amazing for us race fans
Although I would've liked all the splitscreen , more tracks and modes at launch but since it's on gp let's see where this goes from here
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
Please don't attack me but for the Xbox reviews....eight sites (out of 63) with 'Xbox' in the name scoring it 80 or higher. Five of them giving it a 90 or higher. Nine such outlets technically, if you want to throw Windows Central in the mix. Just continuing a thread of thought with Zathalus Zathalus on this one.

None such on the PC side but, for reasons already mentioned earlier, I think Xbox and PC should be treated as two separate platforms meaning their reviews should also be treated as unique to each platform.

Cant wait for you to spam the next Sony exclusive review thread calling out all the reviewers artificially increasing the score. Especially after this thread made it obvious it happens more on that side of the fence.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Direct wheel base force feedback seems like an afterthought in this game



Unless they somehow find a config that helps a lot on it but, not looking too promising.
 
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