Big Baybee
Member
If he is trying to win the democratic primary then going on Fox really serves no purpose. The voters he is trying to lure don't fuck with that channel. More power to him, though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fox News to Host Live Event With Bernie Sanders. Hillary Too
- Thread starter B-Dubs
- Start date
- Status
If he is trying to win the democratic primary then going on Fox really serves no purpose. The voters he is trying to lure don't fuck with that channel. More power to him, though.
This is exactly what I think will happen. They are going to spend the entire time trying to bait Sanders into attacking Clinton and the Democratic party. They aren't going to actually let him talk about stuff he wants to talk about. I mean he should be going anywhere and everywhere to spread his message but I don't trust Fox to actually want to do that. I feel more apprehension about Fox wanting to this, not really about Sanders wanting to. What will probably happen is that they'll want him to say certain things for their interest, he will most likely not fall for it and not take the bait, Fox will end up being annoyed that they didn't get what they want out of the thing and that'll be that.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I would love to see someone actually challenge Sanders.
I think his proposals go in the right direction but aren't very well thought out.
You want free college education? In order to do that you need to reform the entire school system, too. Ever thought about that Bernie?
You want free health care for everybody? You won't be able to pay for that just by increasing taxes for the rich. Take a look at what european nations are doing. There is a complex and diverse mechanism at play to finance all this. I've never seen Sanders address the many financing issues with his plan.
You want to significantly increase taxes for the rich and for corporations? This will hurt the economy if you just do it. Countries like Norway, Sweden and Germany have high taxes for corporations, but they offer a lot of valuable things in order to keep them in the country. Whether its unique infrastructure or a uniquely educated labor force, there are good reasons why corporations aren't leaving these countries to produce somewhere else.
Right now I don't see the US offering the same incentives in most fields, as a result Sanders plans could result in job loss and investments beeing made in other countries instead of the US. US economy relies heavily on jobs that don't require highly educated workers, northern european economies don't, but these are the jobs that can easily be outsourced to other countries, so the US is in a different situation here.
I would like to hear Sanders address issues like that.
Unfortunately, nobody in the US has the slightest clue about policies like Sanders' anyway. So far they have always been shrugged of as "socialsm" but nobody really thought about them, thatswhy nobody knows how to actually constructively criticise them.
I hope Fox News will give Sanders a hard time, and I think they will, but I don't think they will be able to ask the right questions.
I think his proposals go in the right direction but aren't very well thought out.
You want free college education? In order to do that you need to reform the entire school system, too. Ever thought about that Bernie?
You want free health care for everybody? You won't be able to pay for that just by increasing taxes for the rich. Take a look at what european nations are doing. There is a complex and diverse mechanism at play to finance all this. I've never seen Sanders address the many financing issues with his plan.
You want to significantly increase taxes for the rich and for corporations? This will hurt the economy if you just do it. Countries like Norway, Sweden and Germany have high taxes for corporations, but they offer a lot of valuable things in order to keep them in the country. Whether its unique infrastructure or a uniquely educated labor force, there are good reasons why corporations aren't leaving these countries to produce somewhere else.
Right now I don't see the US offering the same incentives in most fields, as a result Sanders plans could result in job loss and investments beeing made in other countries instead of the US. US economy relies heavily on jobs that don't require highly educated workers, northern european economies don't, but these are the jobs that can easily be outsourced to other countries, so the US is in a different situation here.
I would like to hear Sanders address issues like that.
Unfortunately, nobody in the US has the slightest clue about policies like Sanders' anyway. So far they have always been shrugged of as "socialsm" but nobody really thought about them, thatswhy nobody knows how to actually constructively criticise them.
I hope Fox News will give Sanders a hard time, and I think they will, but I don't think they will be able to ask the right questions.
yeah because you know that rule where you can't change parties and no independent party exists.
Umm, you're saying they aren't very well planned out but you have false information regarding the free public universities and social healthcare plan. social healthcare is NOT being payed for just by taxing the wealthy. there will be a small tax to everyone to cover it. he has also spoken about education reform. not nearly enough though, i agree with you on that.
Go to his website, all the policies are there.
Battersea Power Station
Member
It's honestly disgusting. I think everyone, even those that feel Sanders is delusional, can recognize he's the most earnest, honest, and heartfelt candidate we've had in a while. To completely shit on him, and even fault him for it, is beyond misguided. Say he doesn't have the right policies to help black people. Say he's not experienced enough in DC and foreign politics. Say he's too old even. But to speak so cynically and callously towards the one person in this race who gives a damn about all Americans -- all humans, really -- strikes me as oblivious, mean-spirited, and reprehensible.
Edit: and as a practical matter, why would this event turn out "ugly?" Isn't the conventional wisdom that the GOP and its arms want Bernie to do well because either he'll win and be "easier" to beat or he'll at least weaken Hillary on the way to losing?
Good Job Bob
Member
Sanders campaign is more than just about winning the Democratic primary, I would hope.
Big Baybee
Member
Of course, but right now he needs to win the democratic primary.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't trust Sanders to not make this ugly in some way.
We'll see, I guess
We'll see, I guess
AstroZombie
Banned
Only support our approved biased news network.
ugaboga232
Member
I doubt he would make it uglier than the republicans will make in the general, and theres a chance he convinces some people to start considering democrats. I doubt it will help him a lot but i think he cares more about spreading his message.
I don't think he is built for a Fox and Friends work out. They going to make him look like bumbling old dude.
He's not winning and he probably realizes it at this point. Now it's all about reaching as many people as possible getting his message out there. Basically, he can use this opportunity to set up very lucrative future speaking engagements and book deals. Dude may not be president, but he's gonna be rich.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Nah. Bernie doesn't have his eyes on book deals
What is the problem here? It is not like he has not been on Fox before.
Besides, I would think HillaryGaf would be happy. This is almost definitive proof that he has given up on actually trying to win and has instead decided to focus on pushing his agenda.
This is the sort of thing he would have done before he thought he could win.
And I laugh at the idea that plans to cheap-shot Clinton here. He has mostly resisted doing so so far.
Besides, I would think HillaryGaf would be happy. This is almost definitive proof that he has given up on actually trying to win and has instead decided to focus on pushing his agenda.
This is the sort of thing he would have done before he thought he could win.
And I laugh at the idea that plans to cheap-shot Clinton here. He has mostly resisted doing so so far.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Consider me...annoyed after this
This is literally Trump level rhetoric. This town hall might take a particular bent
Consider me...annoyed after this
This is literally Trump level rhetoric. This town hall might take a particular bent
No. It is not.
I do not like it either, but that is just the type of shitty discourse that happens on twitter.
The worst you can say about that is that Sanders was supposed to be above this sort of thing.
"due"
He is trying to get people to know him and trying to get his name out there to voters who don't know of him or very little aside from talks of socialism and what not. It could any manner of directions from him bombing it or knocking it out of the park or most likely falling somewhere in between.
He is trying to win people over and its not the first time he has gone before a crowd that doesn't know him well or is down right hostile. He has stumped and spoken at some notoriously conservative universities before. Perhaps some of the more moderate GOP and those actively disgusted by Trump and also disenfranchised actually by the GOP like what he has to say. A vote is a vote and even more impressive if it comes from the other side. You don't know if you can win a vote if you don't even try.
He is trying to win people over and its not the first time he has gone before a crowd that doesn't know him well or is down right hostile. He has stumped and spoken at some notoriously conservative universities before. Perhaps some of the more moderate GOP and those actively disgusted by Trump and also disenfranchised actually by the GOP like what he has to say. A vote is a vote and even more impressive if it comes from the other side. You don't know if you can win a vote if you don't even try.
Michigan has an open primary, so Republicans or independents can vote Democrat. Bernie has a lot of appeal to those who are suffering hard times.
No one is suffering harder than the residents of Michigan.
There is nothing surprising about this. If he has a chance to get his message out there, he should take it. This is a guy who was comfortable talking to LIBERTY University about how they may disagree on abortion, but they can come together on poverty.
No one is suffering harder than the residents of Michigan.
There is nothing surprising about this. If he has a chance to get his message out there, he should take it. This is a guy who was comfortable talking to LIBERTY University about how they may disagree on abortion, but they can come together on poverty.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Obviously not. I know that everyone has to pay, but the way he proposed it right now most of the weight will be carried by the wealthy.
I don't think a single payer system can work properly for the US.
I don't think finance will work will individual taxes only. In order to realise many of Sanders plans the VAT system needs to be reformed in the US.
I think the system that might work best for the US is one thats very similar to germanys system. Multi payer system with the option to opt out of the government funded insurance. But the only reason germanys system works so well is because the government is involved in a huge way regulating insurance companies, in order to keep the government funded insurance and the privately funded insurances in line. People in germany complain that there is a two class health care system in germany but actually the services are incredibly comparable. I don't see the political will and expertise to do that in the US.
From what I gathered he wants to make college education possible for everybody. This is not a smart idea.
Right now the limiting factor for college education is money. It costs a lot, many people can't afford it. This is of course unfair. But you need a limiting factor.
So a highschool reform is necessary to limit acess to universities. Not everyone who graduated high school should be able to go to university.
The only reasonable alternative to mney beeing the limiting factor would be grades in highschool beeing the limiting factor. Going by european countries with free college education only about 30% of highschool graduates should be allowed to go to university.
But you also need opportunities for the other 70%. Government controlled apprenticeships for example. http://www.theatlantic.com/business...o-much-better-at-training-its-workers/381550/
Sorry for always using germany as an example but I think germany is best suited for it since its 80mil people more colesly resemble the situation in the US than scandinavian countries with less population than some US cities. Of course other countries have better working system, but most of them aren't entirely realitic for a country of 320mil people.
In my opinion free college education can't work unless you drastically improve opportunities for people without college education, and going by all the countries where college education is free or almost free, thats actually the case.
Sanders is popular in europe. The reason he is popular here is because he proposes things europeans already have and enjoy. Unlike in the US there is nobody in europe attacking the general premise of free or affordable college education, universal healthcare etc. Once people experienced it they will love it.
But because Europe has experience with these policies we also know a lot more about what works and what doesn't work. If I look at Sanders plans they seem incredibly simplistic and higher taxes for the rich and corporations seems like his answer to all problems. But financing won't work just like that and many problems won't have anything to do with financing at all.
I consider myself a Sanders supporter, but I also fear that his policies will fail, not because the general idea is bad, but because the execution is bad. And this would just play into the hands of people who always claimed that this can't work anyway.
Maybe it would be better to give it another 4-8 years for a robust social democratic movement to form in the US that actually thinks these things through.
Zoe
Member
People hate-watch Fox all the time.
Poodlestrike
Banned
My big fear here is that Fox is going to lob "So how much does Hillary Clinton suck" style softballs at him for an hour and Bernie's going to just swing at every one of them.
It's probably not going to go down like that, but the stuff I've been hearing about his camp wanting him to be more aggressive is worrying.
It's probably not going to go down like that, but the stuff I've been hearing about his camp wanting him to be more aggressive is worrying.
shoplifter
Member
Genius. An hour of free national airtime on the biggest cable news station all to himself.
Gonna try to get people disgusted with the GOP and the status quo to cross party lines in the primaries.
Gonna try to get people disgusted with the GOP and the status quo to cross party lines in the primaries.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
guy is a quick thinker, he means what he says, there wont be any tripping. he'll make those fools at Fox & Friends eat their words.
balls of stone.
he's going to go to the red base and make a democratic socialist case. He'll actually come away with some supporters. Not enough to make a dent, but some.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
What if Bernie uses this to mindfuck Fox? There moral is pretty low right now. Fox will be expecting one thing and Bernie will pull the rug under them and now he's the one doing the interviews against them.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I don't remember responses like this when Obama sat down with Bill O'Reilly.
They're just a network, who cares.
They're just a network, who cares.
Yeah, this is my first thought at hearing this too. He's basically walking into the lions den to take them all on.
Damerman
Member
jesus christ... This.
The guy is full of nothing but benevolence, yet he is being painted as a villain?
I don't get it. I get trashed for reminding people of the new deal and how that galvinized the economy and people stumbled over themselves telling i don't know shit about the new deal and that bernie is no FDR and that the new deal had major racist aspects to it like denying blacks social security... Like jeez ur fucking spitballing every reason why bernie can't put something out like the new deal, when all im saying is that big things are possible, i didnt say bernie is the new fdr and he has a new deal for us, im just reminding u what great things can be done with a radical reformer. The malice towards bernie from some people on these boards is real and pretty pathetic.
Insulting Obama like that has earned the Revolution how many votes again?
theignoramus
Member
Sanders has lots of intersectionality with Trump, minus the odiousness of racism, sexism, and xenophobia. He should be okay on FoxNews.
Not sure if joking, but I do know a good amount of friends (all of us college students) who really are leaning between Trump and Sanders, depending on who gets their respective party nominations.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yep. It'll test his capability as a communicator and a persuader. Not much of a challenge if he's talking to a crowd who already agrees with him.
theignoramus
Member
Im not joking. I feel bad comparing an upstanding, morally decent man like Sanders to a race baiting goon like Trump, but they have a bit of common ground in their prescriptions for the blue collar working class and neither are gung ho about getting America involved in a Middle Eastern ground war.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Bernie has managed to run the most positive and non insultive campaign thus far. He's obviously not without criticism here.
But the motifs of his campaign consist of respect, unity, reaching across the aisle, etc. This isn't much different than when he spoke to Liberty University.
The dude has a backbone and isn't afraid to preach his message. I'm sure most of the right don't even give his messaging a chance because its largely filtered through right wing media sources.
Battersea Power Station
Member
I don't know anything about no revolution. I'm simply praising the virtue of one person. When I tell my dog I love him, surely you can see I'm not implying I hate every other dog. (I don't own a dog.)
Elaugaufein
Member
The thing you have to understand about PoliGAF / HillaryGAF is that if Hillary murdered someone on live TV while Sanders was declared the Liberal Messiah and the only one to save them from 10 years of Republican rule the following would happen:
1) An uptick on searches for polls comparing the electability of murderers vs socialolists.
2) A significant increase in the belief that 10 years of Republican rule wouldn't be so bad
3) A sudden embrace of accelerationism
Their loathing for Sanders has reached a point where short of taking of a mask and revealing he's been Hillary and/or Obama the whole time there's nothing he could do to become trustworthy.
MHWilliams
Member
The former is correct. The latter? I'm not seeing Sanders aiming for the book deals.
DirtyManos
Member
Sanders campaign going all in for the white vote it seems.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Not sure how this is going to help him but anything to bring some sanity to Fox and by extension Fox's delusional viewers.
This post is really dumb, come on now.
I think it's basically fine for Sanders to go on Fox, although, like, if he said he would only go if the DNC was fine with it, I am curious if the DNC is actually fine with it or if that just got blown off.
I doubt Sanders is going to say anything more cutting on Fox than he's already said recently, so I don't really see that it matters.
That said, I also doubt it's going to get him any benefit.
- Status