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Frozen Synapse |OT| The Thinking Man's Shooter

Sectus said:
After playing the game for quite a bit (Ive played around 100 matches total), there's some things which is starting to really bug me about the basics of the game. I'm curious what other people think.

-Camping. This is mainly about matches where you have machine gunners vs machine gunners only (although the same thing is possible if there's only shotguns guys left too). If you stand still in a small room where you can look at each entry point, absolutely nothing can kill you. Even if multiple guys enter the room at the same time, it's likely one machine gunner will multiple before dying.

It's annoying that such a simple tactic is undeniably the best one. And this type of situation isn't that uncommon. Sometimes you'll get matches where both sides have only machine gunners, or the match will evolve into a situation where both sides only has machine gunners left.

I'm not sure how this could be fixed, but there's probably multiple options. Maybe let each machine gunner spawn with a single flash grenade. Works like normal grenades except its range is shorter (both the throwing and explosive range), and instead of killing it stuns a unit for 1-2 seconds. That would be an effective way of reducing the advantage of camping.

-Micromanagement. Some certain type of orders is a hassle to set up. For instance if you want 2 or more units to move at the same in a turn (ie, they both move up to a wall independently, and then you want to them to enter a room at the same time), you'll need to fiddle with the timer until it's perfect for both units. Similar thing if you want repeated orders during the same turn (like a unit periodically ducking and standing, or periodically looking in 2 different directions).

I have no idea how to simplify those things though, but it would be a godsend to have some kind of UI function to make those kind of orders quicker to set up.

-"Late" grenades. This isn't a major issue, but I think it limits how you can use grenades. As far as I know, there's a set timer of 5 seconds after each grenade where you can't shoot any grenades. This means if you shoot a grenade very late in the turn, it won't explode in the same turn (making it very easy to avoid). It also means that you get the same problem next turn unless you decide to not fire at all for the full turn.

I think this limits what you can do with grenades as the only effective time to shoot grenades is early in a turn. Maybe they could consider resetting the 5 second down time (or reducing it) if it's at the start of a new turn.

-"Check". This is a very minor complaint, but what's the point of ever using it? The unit looks in the direction for way too long. And you can manually order a unit to look in a direction super fast instead. I think it'd work better if the check order only lasted 0.1s or so.

I wish the game was moddable as people could try to implement solutions to potential imbalances that way.

I agree with camping being a hassle. It's punishing the player that is trying to force open the situation.

I personally think micromanagement is part of the charm of the game. It adds to the buildup of the climax.

Late grenades are best avoided by just not throwing one for one turn. It's part of the tactical disadvantage that class has.

Check is handy for when a unit is continuing on sight. Afaik, forcing a unit to aim also forces it to shoot on sight. With check, you can prevent that. It is in fact very useful to check if someone is camping in a room.
 

Dascu

Member
It'd be cool if you could change a unit mid-game, perhaps under a certain condition. Kind of like Checkers or Chess where you can change/upgrade your piece if you reach the other side.
 

Sectus

Member
PjotrStroganov said:
I agree with camping being a hassle. It's punishing the player that is trying to force open the situation.

I personally think micromanagement is part of the charm of the game. It adds to the buildup of the climax.

Late grenades are best avoided by just not throwing one for one turn. It's part of the tactical disadvantage that class has.

Check is handy for when a unit is continuing on sight. Afaik, forcing a unit to aim also forces it to shoot on sight. With check, you can prevent that. It is in fact very useful to check if someone is camping in a room.
For a unit holding fire, I make him look in a direction by altering his path, which can be super fast if you tweak it properly.

I checked official forums, and someone had one suggestion which I think would drastically reduce micromanagent. Make it possible to choose a specific time in the turn instead of x seconds after the unit stands still. That would make it super easy to coordinates orders with multiple units.

Camping is definitely the biggest problem currently. Has there been any mentions that the team is gonna do changes or additions to the game?
 

Morphis

Member
Sectus said:
For a unit holding fire, I make him look in a direction by altering his path, which can be super fast if you tweak it properly.

I checked official forums, and someone had one suggestion which I think would drastically reduce micromanagent. Make it possible to choose a specific time in the turn instead of x seconds after the unit stands still. That would make it super easy to coordinates orders with multiple units.

Camping is definitely the biggest problem currently. Has there been any mentions that the team is gonna do changes or additions to the game?
That might cause problems though, when the unit is ordered to engage on sight, and an unexpected enemy pops up, would you like the 'timed' order to supercede engaging an enemy?

I have to agree about camping. It's often hard to do anything offensive with only MGs past the first turn. I've read the flash grenade option mentioned a couple of times, and I'm curious how that would work.
 

Deraldin

Unconfirmed Member
Palmer_v1 said:
Also, grats to Deraldin in group H. My matches against him were his first time in multi, but he's moving to the next phase with a 3-1 record.

Missed this the other day. Thanks man! You gave me a couple things to watch out for in the future and a new appreciation for cover. >_< If I was more aggressive I think I might have been able to even up the score at least. Losing that first rifleman really threw off my game plan.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
I should probably get my ass kicked by Stroganov some more. At least losing levels me up even if it takes more time than outright winning. >_>
 

Palmer_v1

Member
PjotrStroganov said:
I agree with camping being a hassle. It's punishing the player that is trying to force open the situation.

I personally think micromanagement is part of the charm of the game. It adds to the buildup of the climax.

Late grenades are best avoided by just not throwing one for one turn. It's part of the tactical disadvantage that class has.

Check is handy for when a unit is continuing on sight. Afaik, forcing a unit to aim also forces it to shoot on sight. With check, you can prevent that. It is in fact very useful to check if someone is camping in a room.

You missed his point on the bold. You can do exactly what check does by giving a tiny movement action that will make them face that direction. It will take your guy far less time to get a look in the desired direction then the actual check command. There is NEVER a time when using check is better.

As for camping, I agree that all MGs make for a boring campfest. As others have said though, there are other modes that mitigate camping potential.

Everyone should try Dark Charge.
 

fresquito

Member
fresquito vs hmecey

fresquito (wins)
kills: 4
deaths: 0

hmecey (loses)
kills: 0
deaths: 4

I can't seem to be able to upload any video :-/
 

Zomo

Member
Hey guys sorry have been busy at work the last few days. Once I get home I can upload some videos that need to be and I'll finish my game. Sorry :p
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
So... patch went up. Anyone know what's all in it?

Oh, doesn't work on Steam unless you want to break things on Steam. :/

Most of it sounds good though. Can't wait for next week.

Also, for the person in here having trouble with it:

Die In A Fire Steam Achievement is fixed

:)
 

898

Member
Group F
Jigsama vs 898

Jigsama - Loss
Killed 2
Lost 3

898 - Win
Killed 3
Lost 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8FM1E7X1T4

My internet has been out since last night (halfway through my planning for another game :( ) So, sorry for any more inconvenience with the time this is taking. If it isn't working when I get home tonight I might take my laptop to a friends.
 
So glad to see the true patch doings begin at last---especially heading into any prospective DLC/Expansion territory. As everything gets spiffied up, the modding potentials should rise to ever greater heights and some really crazy stuff should well manifest.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Just saying, we'll be starting the next round of the tournament as soon as the Steam Patch hits.

That should get quite a few people into playing again with the updated version to stir some interest and I wont need to take hours to update everything :)
 

Zomo

Member
Finished my game with Koonal
The result was a draw.

Doolez
Killed: 1
Lost: 1

Koonal
Killed: 1
Lost: 1

Pretty sure I'm out now :(

Had a lot of fun though :) ill upload when I get home.
 
Toma said:
Just saying, we'll be starting the next round of the tournament as soon as the Steam Patch hits.

That should get quite a few people into playing again with the updated version to stir some interest and I wont need to take hours to update everything :)
And who are going to take part in it?
 

Card Boy

Banned
So i watched afew tutorials on youtube, and played abit of single player and this game finally just clicked with me after 3 hours. I haven't used Bazookas yet.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
The_Player said:
And who are going to take part in it?

The best two of each group?

I'll post the new matches for the K.O. phase as soon as the patch is live.
 

fresquito

Member
Group N

fresquito vs WHOAguitarninja

fresquito (wins)
kills: 3
deaths: 0

WHOAguitarninja (loses)
kills: 0
deaths: 3

There's only one match lingering for me. It's Conceptor's, I hope he does his movements soon.
 

Zomo

Member
fresquito said:
Group N

fresquito vs WHOAguitarninja

fresquito (wins)
kills: 3
deaths: 0

WHOAguitarninja (loses)
kills: 0
deaths: 3

There's only one match lingering for me. It's Conceptor's, I hope he does his movements soon.

fresquito vs WHOAguitarninja

fresquito said:
fresquito vs hmecey

fresquito (wins)
kills: 4
deaths: 0

hmecey (loses)
kills: 0
deaths: 4

I can't seem to be able to upload any video :-/

fresquito vs hmecey
 

Broseybrose

Member
Where did UK1 go? I cant access my multiplayer profile on any of the other servers and UK1 doesnt show anymore.

NM, its there. That was weird.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
I wish the other players in my group, namely vcassano, mikey000 and Ultimo, would just play their turns already.

It's not like setting up your movements takes more than a couple of minutes...
 

Zomo

Member
Brazil said:
I wish the other players in my group, namely vcassano, mikey000 and Ultimo, would just play their turns already.

It's not like setting up your movements takes more than a couple of minutes...


Send them a pm? If its been more than two days ask Toma to put them on the inactive list than they have 2 days to respond or their games are gone.
 

Broseybrose

Member
You know I never gifted my 2nd steam copy because i dont know how. There is no mention of a second copy in my steam games library. So how do i do it?
 

Kalnos

Banned
Broseybrose said:
You know I never gifted my 2nd steam copy because i dont know how. There is no mention of a second copy in my steam games library. So how do i do it?

Games -> Manage Gifts and Guest Passes
 

Atrophis

Member
Brazil said:
I wish the other players in my group, namely vcassano, mikey000 and Ultimo, would just play their turns already.

It's not like setting up your movements takes more than a couple of minutes...

Yeah i have one game left with vcassano but he hasnt taken his first turn after a week of waiting.

Have PM'd with no response.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Vlodril said:
Apparently my group was very fast and now there is a lot of waiting. Any ideas when the next round will start?

Any games that havent been played by the release of the new patch on steam, will get a default win for the last player active in this thread or my pm box.
 

fresquito

Member
I've finished all my matches. My final results are as follow:

Victories 7
Defeats: 1
Kills: 26
Deaths: 6
Difference: +20

As for the matches, here they are:

Thanks to Zomo for most of theem.

GROUP N

First leg

fresquito vs WHOaguitarninja

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 3
Deaths: 0

WHOaguitarninja (loser)
Kills: 0
Deaths: 3

fresquito vs TomaLexi

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 3
Deaths: 1

TomaLexi (loser)
Kills: 1
Deaths:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpIsnIyIDgw

fresquito (loser)
Kills: 1
Deaths: 2

Conceptor (winner)
Kills: 2
Deaths: 1

fresquito vs hmecey

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 4
Deaths: 2

hmecey (loser)
Kills: 2
Deaths: 4

Second leg


fresquito vs WHOAguitarninja

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 3
Deaths: 0

WHOAguitarninja (loser)
Kills: 0
Deaths: 3

fresquito vs TomaLexi

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 4
Deaths: 0

TomaLexi (loser)
Kills: 0
Deaths: 4

fresquito vs Conceptor

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 4
Deaths: 1

Conceptor (loser)
Kills: 1
Deaths: 4

fresquito vs hmecey

fresquito (winner)
Kills: 4
Deaths: 0

hmecey (loser)
Kills: 0
Deaths: 4

Thanks to all playing me. It's been a pleasure.
 

Broseybrose

Member
Ive been playing this game for a few weeks now and I just realized I have no idea what the number on each unit means? Is it just ordering the number of units on my squad, i.e. 1,2,3,4? Or is it something more meaningful?
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Broseybrose said:
Ive been playing this game for a few weeks now and I just realized I have no idea what the number on each unit means? Is it just ordering the number of units on my squad, i.e. 1,2,3,4? Or is it something more meaningful?


Just the number of the unit.

1 machine gun
2 machine gun
3 grenade
4 rocket

Press one of the 1234 buttons on your keyboard and then move that unit around, basically.
 
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