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[kc44135]

It's so weird because I've been complaining about fast travelling and time skipping madness since episode 1 of this season and every episode after it. This is legitimately the first episode where it didn't bother me at all. We saw that Jon and company were stranded at the same spot for long enough for basically a full day to pass and then some and we know how fast Dany can travel on her dragons. I think it works this episode.

Idk, man. Great episode, but the fast travel in this episode felt really bizarre to me. Again, beyond that, why didn't the Night King just spear some dudes while they were sitting there (beyond plot armor being thick as heel for my boy Jon)???

I am stunned that people didn't like the episode. It's like a huge payoff after 7 years. Seeing the dragons fight the walkers was epic. I felt the early seasons were a bit slow, so I've been enjoying the quicker pacing. Nearly every faction is dead...it's time for the payoffs with who is left.

Oh, I loved it, personally. One of the most epic GOT episodes ever. The fast travel just kinda irked me a bit this time around, haha. Also, where's Bran while Littlefinger is scheming and twirling his mustache. Isn't he supposed an all-knowing tree wizard at this point? Is he just off somewhere playing with his Wierwood?

Worst written GoT episode yet?

That was TWD level bad.

We've been Walking Dead for awhile.

C'mon, now. Things have gotten a little sloppy this season, but have you guys seen Walking Dead recently? The last season was complete trash. GOT is so much better put together, so much more epic, so much more well acted, there just isn't even a comparison there.

GOT = most epic thing on TV.

Walking Dead = Shit on a stick.

 

[Einchy]

Bit small for her

Second time they've shit on Kit for being 5′ 8″.

 

[The Artisan]

Because he has to go back to Winterfell? Why wouldn't he go back?
There's a big Weirwood tree where he can spend day and night tripping balls.
Not to mention he needs to speak to Jon.

Why does he have to go back to Winterfell if he's not Brandon Stark? Why would he go back? If he's not Bran Stark, why is Jon Snow still his half brother/cousin? Why would he care to tell Jon the truth if he doesn't care?

 

[FiggyCal]

Someone tell me again why Arya is picking a fight with her sister instead of killing Cersei.

Because she thinks Sansa will betray Jon.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Or maybe some people just think the writing isn't that good. If you like it, cool. Personally, I think it's enjoyable, but cliche as hell.

The Sansa/Arya sister beef especially.

The show where the vast majority of the deaths were completely unexpected and made it's name on the good guys losing the majority of conflicts is now poorly written and predictable now that the good guys are getting some victories and aren't getting killed off when we expect them to? Hell the last thing I expected this season was Jon Snow fighting fighting alongside the Hound and Beric.

 

[Kayhan]

The preview was literally the only good part of this episode IMO.

lol dat hyperbole.

Still far, far ahead of most other shows ever shown on TV.

People just need to come to terms with the lack of spatial and temporal realism. It is a fantasy show, not The Wire.

 

[RDreamer]

Worst written GoT episode yet?

That was TWD level bad.

The whole season has been like this, but yeah this might be the worst episode yet.

lol dat hyperbole.

Still far, far ahead of most other shows ever shown on TV.

Ahead in what category? Crazy spectacle? Sure, they got the budget. Writing? No.

 

[megalowho]

One thing I find really interesting.

LF gets the scroll from the Winterfell archives. Ok, got it.

Arya steals the scroll. She doesn't know LF is watching her, but she steals it. Ok.

Arya confronts Sansa with the scroll.

Sansa goes to LF and explains that Arya found this scroll, like she's seeking his counsel.

How is it that Arya *doesn't* reveal to Sansa that it was LF who got the scroll in the first place? She obviously suspects that LF is up to something, otherwise why spy on him?

It's almost as if there is indeed some trap being laid by Arya, and it's going to work better if (for now) Sansa doesn't know that she's on to LF.

That seems like the only explination without making a mockery of her character. Still botherd watching characters that should know better act stubbornly.

 

[Einchy]

Why does he have to go back to Winterfell if he's not Brandon Stark? Why would he go back? If he's not Bran Stark, why is Jon Snow still his half brother/cousin? Why would he care to tell Jon the truth if he doesn't care?

Why would the guy who wants to fight White Walkers go to the only place that's fighting the White Walkers?

 

[kswiston]

Viserion was the immediate threat, but yeah, that whole scene was dumb.

The Night King was also being incredibly dramatic and doing all of this in slow motion. Meanwhile, there were multiple white walkers there who could have simultaneously thrown the spears and got all the dragons and the whole crew if they wanted to.

I get the impression that they weren't terribly bothered by anything happening to them, including the dragons. They also don't care about time. The dead have all the time in the world.

 

[Obliterator]

The Gendry running to Eastwatch was admittedly pretty out there. It seems like they could have gotten to the exact same scenario, i.e. Dany coming to save Jon in a better easier to believe method. (Bran warging / Drogon sensing Jon in danger, etc.)

 

[Haly]

Every time you guys talk about Bran doing something with his 3ER powers a little voice in my head is screaming "BUT THIS CREATES A PARADOX".

 

[Staccat0]

Second time they've shit on Kit for being 5′ 8″.

So many winks this season

 

[Eleuin]

y'all hyping up beric like he and torm aren't next on the chopping block for staying at the wall like dumbasses

 

[Femto.]

Bran's like the main reason they went beyond the wall last episode. He sent that letter out to like everyone warning about the white walkers being close to Eastwatch.

Skimmed through last episode and completely forgot about that. I remembered it as only being a strategy to have Cersei being such a baby and listen up.

 

[Conkerkid11]

• The plan to capture a wight was always stupid, but they somehow made it even more ridiculous. When The Hound threw the rock and the wights started attacking again...a wall of ten men was somehow keeping a horde of hundreds of zombies at bay. For every swing of Jon and the gang's weapons, they should have been getting stabbed like three times.

Oh yeah, I forgot to complain about that part. They had literally just established that the white walkers control the wights, and then they go do something stupid like having this wight supposedly think for itself just to get the audience to laugh.

Every time you guys talk about Bran doing something with his 3ER powers a little voice in my head is screaming "BUT THIS CREATES A PARADOX".

In what way?

And if you really have that complaint, then they should have had a scene with Melisandre having a vision of them being beyond the wall and under attack, and have her send a raven to Dany. Anything but what happened this episode would have been better.

The Gendry running to Eastwatch was admittedly pretty out there. It seems like they could have gotten to the exact same scenario, i.e. Dany coming to save Jon in a better easier to believe method. (Bran warging / Drogon sensing Jon in danger, etc.)

Hell yeah, one of the dragons sensing he was in danger would have been fantastic. Maybe they could have flown off without Dany as well so she wouldn't have decided to go off in her fucking dress again immediately after Tyrion reminded her she could have got shot and killed with an arrow during the last battle.

Fucking put some armor on, Dany.

 

[HMD]

I need that music when Dany first shows up.

Anyway, white walkers went from threatening, scary, undead beings like the ones in the Hardhome episode, to stupid Walking Dead zombies that attack people once at a time.

 

[wandering]

 

[Lights and Waves]

I'm going to need Gendry to make armor for the dragons tbqh.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It's not much of a calculation considering LF all but came out and told her his plans with his line about Brienne.

yeah but that just means LF *really* wanted Brienne gone and used Sansa to get it done while saying the opposite.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah, he is definitely Bran. But he is struggling to be Bran. I see him as fluctuating, trying to hold onto what makes him himself. He feels Bran inside. Logically knows he is Bran. But hs so much more than just Bran in his brain at this point.

his behavior from episodes 3 to 4 to 5 have shown improvement.

when Petyr mentioned chaos to him that triggered him. when Meera told him he died in the cave, that gave him something to think about. And then when he reunited with his other sister he puts more effort in embracing her, and gives her a gift. That's being more social.

then he did some scouting north of the wall, and he showed concern. if he was a person that was completely emotionless, then he'd lack the motivation to tell anyone what he just saw. yet, he knows the world is in danger, so he tells the maester to send ravens.

and his absence in this episode fucking sucked.

 

[SargerusBR]

Anyway let's talk about how Dany risked it all in the hopes of getting 8 inches of Snow. That's ma girl.

He's too little for her.

 

[B-Dubs]

Isn't Martin still in control of the overall story arch?

Let's be real: this is always the arc the story was going to take as winter came and the final battle descended on the story.

Jon and Dany's plot lines have always been played straight, in regards to basic fantasy story telling. There were no big twists or turns, if you've read fantasy novels before it should all have felt familiar to you.

The King's Landing stuff was all the inverse of basic fantasy story telling. So if someone would normally survive a story line, they wind up dying instead. This is what caused all those shocking moments throughout the series.

As Jon and Dany came more and more into the main plot, and their plot lines took over the main story, it was only natural that the internal logic their story lines followed (basic fantasy story telling) would take over the story as well.

What I'm saying is this: no one should be expecting the shocks and twists and turns of the previous seasons because the story would always naturally phase those out over time. GRRM writing novels to adapt or not, this was always the direction the story was going to go in.

 

[Einchy]

So many winks this season

D&D is gonna fuck with him by writing in a scene where Jon has to wink.

 

[TheNotoriousAFG]

The whole season has been like this, but yeah this might be the worst episode yet.



Ahead in what category? Crazy spectacle? Sure, they got the budget. Writing? No.

Y'all are reaching, this episode was a mess but nowhere near TWD levels. I'm personally waiting until the finale to gauge the quality of the overall season. My opinion is heavily contingent on payoff of the Winterfell plot threads and the meeting in Kings Landing.

 

[RS4-]

The intro is better than TWD.

 

[The Artisan]

Why would the guy who wants to fight White Walkers go to the only place that's fighting the White Walkers?

are you talking about Jon?

 

[Seesaw15]

Tbh if HBO and GRRM put out a statement before the season aired that said GRRM consulted and wrote the story for the last two season, I bet we wouldn't be getting half as many complaints–even if it was a complete lie.

It's becoming an instance of hating on Season 7 netting you internet cool points.

Please. This isn't a Book vs Show watcher debate. Never read any of the books and this episode was rushed and sloppy.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Why does he have to go back to Winterfell if he's not Brandon Stark? Why would he go back? If he's not Bran Stark, why is Jon Snow still his half brother/cousin? Why would he care to tell Jon the truth if he doesn't care?

Because that's where he's most recognizable? There isn't any other safe place for him to go. He can't hide as someone else, to others he is Brandon Stark.
Bran Stark is merely a vessel now, he may find himself again someday but right now he's detached.
The truth of Jon matters because it must relate to the endgame.
Winterfell is a strategic position and a place Bran can be safe enough to "plan" or w/e he is doing.
It's that simple really.

 

[Kalentan]

The Gendry running to Eastwatch was admittedly pretty out there. It seems like they could have gotten to the exact same scenario, i.e. Dany coming to save Jon in a better easier to believe method. (Bran warging / Drogon sensing Jon in danger, etc.)

I still don't get why people are surprised that Gendry was able to make the run.

They didn't get that far past the wall, they don't show a day passing until they're on the rock. Meaning they only had walked that far (and we only ever see them walking.)

Considering when Gendry begins his run, the sun is up and it's night when he arrives, it's not hard to imagine him making the run.

 

[The Artisan]

He's too little for her.

 

[poppabk]

Within the world it makes sense. As a piece of fiction it comes off as an eye roll moment because both of how predictable it is and how convenient the setup was. Dudes have special white walker ice spears all of a sudden? Massive chains to pull it out of the lake? Maybe it's just the way it was handled that bothers me. It doesn't feel like something that HAD to happen for any other reason but spectacle, not substance.

It pretty much had to happen, or the growing evil that we saw in the very first scene of the show and which has driven much of the plot for this season, would have been extinguished in 5 minutes in this episode by the dragons. The white walkers had to have a defense against the dragons for the show to work on a basic mechanics level. 'Winter is coming for seven seasons and then is averted within five minutes' isn't a good tagline.

 

[Einchy]

are you talking about Jon?

Bran.

Bran's whole thing has been about stopping the Night King and you asked why he would go to Winterfell, well, Winterfell has the only people who actually think the Night King is real and are doing something to stop him. There's no better place for him to be than in Winterfell.

It also has a Wayward tree, which he has spent most of his scenes next to.

 

[RS4-]

Gonna be hilarious when Jon's lineage isn't revealed at all.

Or better yet, a whole lotta nothing.

 

[Obliterator]

I still don't get why people are surprised that Gendry was able to make the run.

They didn't get that far past the wall, they don't show a day passing until they're on the rock. Meaning they only had walked that far (and we only ever see them walking.)

Considering when Gendry begins his run, the sun is up and it's night when he arrives, it's not hard to imagine him making the run.

True. It very well may be they are actually pretry close to the wall. I guess that would make sense as we see Jon ride up not too long you assume after Dany and the crew get back. Maybe the Walkers are just finally just outside the wall.

 

[The Artisan]

Because that's where he's most recognizable? There isn't any other safe place for him to go. He can't hide as someone else, to others he is Brandon Stark.
Bran Stark is merely a vessel now, he may find himself again someday but right now he's detached.
The truth of Jon matters because it must relate to the endgame.
Winterfell is a strategic position and a place Bran can be safe enough to "plan" or w/e he is doing.
It's that simple really.

Nope, that's actually more complicated to me. The simple narrative that I'm choosing to go by is: he's still Brandon Stark.

Why would he care who recognizes him if he doesn't care about his previous identity? Why does he care about safety if he doesn't have any emotion? Concern can be an emotion and if he had no emotion then he'd have no concern to get safe. If he doesn't care about fitting into society why does it matter to him about telling Jon the truth for an endgame?

 

[poppabk]

Gonna be hilarious when Jon's lineage isn't revealed at all.

I think this is a real possibility.

 

[FiggyCal]

Maybe in season 1-3 I would've given the writers credit for making Bran a complicated character that has to be detached but is still finding subtle ways to connect to his family. I don't trust the writers enough to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. I am taking Bran returning to Winterfell at face value.

 

[nbraun80]

That episode was pretty terrible. All flash, no substance.

• The plan to capture a wight was always stupid, but they somehow made it even more ridiculous. When The Hound threw the rock and the wights started attacking again...a wall of ten men was somehow keeping a horde of hundreds of zombies at bay. For every swing of Jon and the gang's weapons, they should have been getting stabbed like three times.
• It's a good thing the Wights didn't have bows. Or spears. Oh, wait.
• So Gendry ran back to the Wall and sent a raven to Dragonstone, and then Daenerys flew all the way North to save them? Were they sitting in that section of the ice for a fucking week? Because the raven would take at least two days to get to Dragonstone. I know most people in this thread don't seem to care about all of the time inconsistencies, but jfc this was particularly egregious.
• If Daenerys was willing to rush off to save them...why not just have her dragons be part of the plan in the first place? Like this was always a suicide mission. The smarter plan would have been to fly a dragon up there with a small crew, grab a wight and gtfo out quick. Or better yet - take a prisoner beyond the wall, tie him up, slit his throat and let him change...then take him back. But that's not exciting enough, so the characters have to come up with braindead ideas that put them in dumb action sequences with no weight to them.
• Surprised they killed off Thoros like that. They could have had him die in much more dramatic fashion given the situation they were in. I'm glad they didn't, because a servant of the Fire God dying from the cold is nice and poetic. Honestly surprised the writers are capable of a death like that at this point.

It's really depressing to see how much the show has fallen. Characters never used to survive ridiculous situations like this. Between Jaime and Bronn a few episodes ago, and Jon's crew this week, Season 7 probably already has the most cliche 'saved in the nick of time' moments of the entire series. And what is with all of the Jon Snow fakeouts? Nobody believed he'd even died for real the first time.

I didn't even mention the horror show that is the Winterfell stuff.

I mean of the rock throw was to show that the wights were waiting for the ice to freeze over again, and that basically showed them they waited enough days. Won't bother with the rest, I enjoyed it all, nothing I can say to sway some people's nit pickiness. Yeah the raven was a stretch, but i'm not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Is this supposed to be suggesting Bran is the Night King? And if so, why would he have attacked himself at the tree?

 

[The Artisan]

Bran.

Bran's whole thing has been about stopping the Night King and you asked why he would go to Winterfell, well, Winterfell has the only people who actually think the Night King is real and are doing something to stop him. There's no better place for him to be than in Winterfell.

It also has a Wayward tree, which he has spent most of his scenes next to.

But this means he's still Bran. If he wants to go home and get safe so that he can continue doing his job then that means he cares.

 

[Diabelli]

True. It very well may be they are actually pretry close to the wall. I guess that would make sense as we see Jon ride up not too long you assume after Dany and the crew get back. Maybe the Walkers are just finally just outside the wall.

Why didn't they have horses?

 

[btrboyev]

That episode was pretty terrible. All flash, no substance.

• The plan to capture a wight was always stupid, but they somehow made it even more ridiculous. When The Hound threw the rock and the wights started attacking again...a wall of ten men was somehow keeping a horde of hundreds of zombies at bay. For every swing of Jon and the gang's weapons, they should have been getting stabbed like three times.
• It's a good thing the Wights didn't have bows. Or spears. Oh, wait.
• So Gendry ran back to the Wall and sent a raven to Dragonstone, and then Daenerys flew all the way North to save them? Were they sitting in that section of the ice for a fucking week? Because the raven would take at least two days to get to Dragonstone. I know most people in this thread don't seem to care about all of the time inconsistencies, but jfc this was particularly egregious.
• If Daenerys was willing to rush off to save them...why not just have her dragons be part of the plan in the first place? Like this was always a suicide mission. The smarter plan would have been to fly a dragon up there with a small crew, grab a wight and gtfo out quick. Or better yet - take a prisoner beyond the wall, tie him up, slit his throat and let him change...then take him back. But that's not exciting enough, so the characters have to come up with braindead ideas that put them in dumb action sequences with no weight to them.
• Surprised they killed off Thoros like that. They could have had him die in much more dramatic fashion given the situation they were in. I'm glad they didn't, because a servant of the Fire God dying from the cold is nice and poetic. Honestly surprised the writers are capable of a death like that at this point.

It's really depressing to see how much the show has fallen. Characters never used to survive ridiculous situations like this. Between Jaime and Bronn a few episodes ago, and Jon's crew this week, Season 7 probably already has the most cliche 'saved in the nick of time' moments of the entire series. And what is with all of the Jon Snow fakeouts? Nobody believed he'd even died for real the first time.

I didn't even mention the horror show that is the Winterfell stuff.

Thoros died from his wounds, not from the cold.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Nope, that's actually more complicated to me. The simple narrative that I'm choosing to go by is: he's still Brandon Stark.

Why would he care who recognizes him if he doesn't care about his previous identity? Why does he care about safety if he doesn't have any emotion? Concern can be an emotion and if he had no emotion then he'd have no concern to get safe. If he doesn't care about fitting into society why does it matter to him about telling Jon the truth for an endgame?

You're acting like I'm saying Bran is "nothing", he cares because he's the 3ER.

 

[kswiston]

I think this is a real possibility.

They already revealed his lineage though. Are you talking about revealing it to the characters in the show themselves?

 

[Lamel]

Wow wow wow. Great episode in terms of the action, tension, fight choreography and overall coolness. Weird in terms of the pacing and script. Still really enjoyed it.


I'm starting to think though it would have been nice to have 10 episodes each for these last 2 seasons.

 

[redfox088]

Don't know why everyone doesn't understand why NK went for Visy over drogon. What we all just witnessed was an acquisition of assets. Business 101...aka a hostile takeover lol.

 

[DangerMouse]

I rewatched that scene again and yeah.... I agree with this. Remember after Arya scared Sansa to death, she handed her the dagger. Whatever that means.

Yeah. She's not giving over the dagger if it's not part of a plan.
And maybe Bran giving to Arya to give to Sansa.

 

[Zertez]

I'm torn how I feel about the show now. I'm happy I get to see an ending and some of the showdowns, interaction between major characters but the show seems like average fan fiction that is just checking boxes for what the fans want.

Winterfell story line is laughable. Bran has seen a lot of what LF has done but hasnt told his family, Arya has trained to be a world class assassin yet she is easily caught not even wearing a disguise, and Sansa has lectured everyone for the last 2 seasons what LF is capable of and she still trust him over others... No idea which storyline would be worst LF playing the Starks again or telegraphing the Stark kids playing LF

 

[Deku Tree]

Can Bran Warg a blue eye dragon?