Chuck Norris
Banned
GRRM would have given them every single plot point if it mattered that much. As far as I know he just gave them the ending? As it is, the books are probably more important to him.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
The sense I get is that George is cool with it.
I'm sure he has his nagging issues, but if he were upset by these changes, he'd be in a position to move some goalposts. He also probably wouldn't be working with HBO to get spin-offs off the ground, nor would he do engagements or playing up the shows achievements on his livejournal.
Remember that George Martin isn't just some novelist getting his work adapted. He cut his teeth in TV and he has helped adapt stuff before. He's going to "get it" a lot more than some other writers would.
I'm sure he has his nagging issues, but if he were upset by these changes, he'd be in a position to move some goalposts. He also probably wouldn't be working with HBO to get spin-offs off the ground, nor would he do engagements or playing up the shows achievements on his livejournal.
Remember that George Martin isn't just some novelist getting his work adapted. He cut his teeth in TV and he has helped adapt stuff before. He's going to "get it" a lot more than some other writers would.
That honour would always go to season 5. The show has already changed, but I just try to enjoy it for what it is and the good things that it does, because it's not going to happen again.
JimiNutz
Banned
I still don't understand how Benjan couldn't have just turned up earlier to help them and there are also many other ways they could have written Jon having to be shirtless at some point in the episode.
I'm not expecting the show to be 'realistic' but the whole sequence was so ridiculous. At one point there weas a handful of men fighting of thousands of undead. It just looked so cheesy and made no sense.
Well, that was.....kinda weak. It had some cool shit, but also some things that made 0 sense.
A) what luck they ran into a completly isolated group of zombies and a white walker
B) what more luck that all of the zombies die except one
C) lets run gendry back to the wall to call of help, but take his weapon because....eh.....
i guess the hammer is to large, ok, but at least give him a knife
D) instaed of running after him with the captured guy we run....towards the army of the dead?
E) what luck that the ice breaks in exactly the right way to form an island
F) the only big death being in his sleep was weak
G) Benjen going "there is no time to ride with you!"
THERE WAS TOTALLY TIME, HIM SACRIFICING HIMSELF MADE 0 SENSE
H) everything surround arya and sansa was dumb and annoying.
I) Why are they transporting the zombie by boat in the end instead of using the dragons?
This was definitely the weakest second to last episode of a season I can remember, and may be the weakest episode since season 5. A shame.
7 episodes left. I hope they are a bit better then this one
A) what luck they ran into a completly isolated group of zombies and a white walker
B) what more luck that all of the zombies die except one
C) lets run gendry back to the wall to call of help, but take his weapon because....eh.....
i guess the hammer is to large, ok, but at least give him a knife
D) instaed of running after him with the captured guy we run....towards the army of the dead?
E) what luck that the ice breaks in exactly the right way to form an island
F) the only big death being in his sleep was weak
G) Benjen going "there is no time to ride with you!"
THERE WAS TOTALLY TIME, HIM SACRIFICING HIMSELF MADE 0 SENSE
H) everything surround arya and sansa was dumb and annoying.
I) Why are they transporting the zombie by boat in the end instead of using the dragons?
This was definitely the weakest second to last episode of a season I can remember, and may be the weakest episode since season 5. A shame.
7 episodes left. I hope they are a bit better then this one
GRRM know how this shit works and is involved with the plot points of the show since he is a co-executive producer
reading forums sometimes make me wonder if people have ever interacted with real people and done real life work
Too busy counting his money to give a fuck. He knows people will be at his door in 10 years or so sucking on his DICK to bring Song of Ice and Fire to TV "properly" with completed books.
Ah ok so just bad writing and pacing.
Camp Freddie
Member
There is clearly no other way to get Jon out of his clothes in front of Dany.
Nope, no way at all!
Only joking, I think you're right. I assume they're saving the Auntie-fucking until the final episode. The climax of the season, if you will.
Perhaps, but as Meera observed, he died in that cave. He himself said, "I remember what it was like to be Bran". He's an emotionless nothing at this point, whose entire reason for existing is to warn the right people about what's coming, and to make some startling reveals. Once the story is ended, what's left for him? He can't be lord of Winterfell, there is nothing to predict except maybe the return of the White Walkers a thousand or so years hence, giving rise to the same prophecies known in his time. I believe Bran is now linked tightly with the Night King and I think their fates are tied.
I have no idea how it's going to happen, but I think it will.
Bran didn't send Jon, right? He just told him what he said and then it was Tyrion's plan. Bran's absence this episode was really conspicuous though.
He could've warged into a dragon and saved its life, probably.
Just got caught up. It was a good episode in terms of spectacle but that's about it. There's no doubt the series has taken a dive after season three. All the political intrigue,character development and weaving plot has mostly disappeared. It's standard fantasy fare now.
I'm still not buying Arya turning on Sansa so quickly, that whole plotline is trash. Also thought Dany's ultrasonic dragon was ridiculous.
I'm still not buying Arya turning on Sansa so quickly, that whole plotline is trash. Also thought Dany's ultrasonic dragon was ridiculous.
Steiner_Zi
Member
I feel like they screwed up with this episode. The North used to feel like a haunted and terrifying place and the White Walkers a formidable enemy. Now you have 7 people surrounded by hundreds/thousands of undead enemies and White Walkers and they could fend them off right until the totally convenient second that Dany arrived. Honestly the whole battle scene felt like watching the Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies in its silliness and lack of impact. You have the Moment That Ice Meets Fire and it just doesn't land as this monumental clash that we had years building up to. A shame.
It was a very entertaining episode, but it was also a very dumb one. So many plot points were handled with complete disregard. The deus ex machina came from the heavens multiple times to save Jon more times than I could be bothered to count. Benji was merely a vehicle to safeguard Jon and had to sacrifice his life because the writers couldn't be bothered with him anymore. RR would never disregard that character like that. So lazy. Also, the night king has an ice dragon now. Even though the idea is cool, it was a very dumb move to try to get a wight in order to persuade Cersei. Everyone knew that Cersei was fucked anyway, so Dany could of taken her three dragons to her directly to her face and demand that she'd join the cause. All Dany wanted was for Jon to bend the knee, and he could of easily persuaded Dany to do just that in return and she would of happily obliged. Meanwhile, Cersei would of certainly have taken it seriously, since it wouldn't make sense for Dany to not crush Cersei on the spot if her request was false.
Instead, we have the band of idiots that march alone right into enemy territory. Unsurprisingly, they get flanked and fucked which of course leads Dany to lose a dragon to the Night King. I suppose that the writers wanted to level the odds, but the manner they did so was just lazy. Meh.
Instead, we have the band of idiots that march alone right into enemy territory. Unsurprisingly, they get flanked and fucked which of course leads Dany to lose a dragon to the Night King. I suppose that the writers wanted to level the odds, but the manner they did so was just lazy. Meh.
Mix Master
Member
The winterfell storyline was utter shit this episode, damn. Just filler.
And what a waste of BenJen
And what a waste of BenJen
Devilinthiscity
Member
6 episodes I believe. Not sure if correct, but I remember hearing the final season will have longer episodes too.
The damage is done. The material that needed better pacing and time to breathe with more episodes has already passed.
Besides the few shaky "convenient" elements, I enjoyed the hell out of this episode again.
We're talking about Heroic Fantasy that's better than at least 80% of HF movies made for the big screen here people.
Now after thinking about it quite a bit I have the following thoughts:
- Sansa sending Brienne away puzzled me. As LF pointed out, if Arya was to decide to start shit, Sansa would 100% rely on her. Sending her away makes me think that the sisters are up to something, and Sansa doesn't want Brienne to get involved by misunderstanding what is happenng.
- Jon was doing the basic heroics, protecting the Drogo boarding, until Vys got shanked. After that, I thought it was a mix of anger, and Thoros' speech about finishing the war by killing the NK and his "manifest destiny" that got him to do a Jaime.
PS: So on board with Jonaerys. They are hella cute together. #sorrynotsorry
PPS: the Squad banter pre action was hilarious. Hope we get more of that before the end of the series.
We're talking about Heroic Fantasy that's better than at least 80% of HF movies made for the big screen here people.
Now after thinking about it quite a bit I have the following thoughts:
- Sansa sending Brienne away puzzled me. As LF pointed out, if Arya was to decide to start shit, Sansa would 100% rely on her. Sending her away makes me think that the sisters are up to something, and Sansa doesn't want Brienne to get involved by misunderstanding what is happenng.
- Jon was doing the basic heroics, protecting the Drogo boarding, until Vys got shanked. After that, I thought it was a mix of anger, and Thoros' speech about finishing the war by killing the NK and his "manifest destiny" that got him to do a Jaime.
PS: So on board with Jonaerys. They are hella cute together. #sorrynotsorry
PPS: the Squad banter pre action was hilarious. Hope we get more of that before the end of the series.
blainethemono
Member
The Hound's line, "They say it's one of the better ways to go" would indicate that he froze to death
it feels like his wounds plus the fact that he's pounding wine the entire time doesn't help, but everything is too rushed to get this point across more elegantly
overall a pretty disjointed and terribly directed episode compared to the rest of the season, but pretty fun anyway
Devilinthiscity
Member
That would be corny as hell, but at this point I wouldn't put it past the writers to come up with something along those lines.
This ain't anime shit
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Jesus. I try to catch up with this thread the morning after an episode airs and y'all went and made nearly 50 pages.
Hey, do you guys remember how the penultimate episode during the last season basically rewrote the book on how good television cinematography and direction could be? I miss that. Apart from some of the humor, this episode was basically a shotgun of deus ex machina. The worst part is that a lot of this could have been avoided pretty easily:
Dany should have been by the wall since the start, noticed the mystical blizzard or something and THEN taken her cue to save the day. For a series that gets criticized for increasingly relying on time dilation, making the mother of all time traveling contrivances during a penultimate episode is brain dead stupid. My version is also dumb but it's a lot less manipulative than this was.
Benjen also should have met their party earlier, giving him some more time with Jon and co before making his cliche sacrafice.
Also if this sudden Sansa v. Arya thing isn't an elaborate ploy to counter LF then this may actually be the most contrived thing in the show thus far.
Dany should have been by the wall since the start, noticed the mystical blizzard or something and THEN taken her cue to save the day. For a series that gets criticized for increasingly relying on time dilation, making the mother of all time traveling contrivances during a penultimate episode is brain dead stupid. My version is also dumb but it's a lot less manipulative than this was.
Benjen also should have met their party earlier, giving him some more time with Jon and co before making his cliche sacrafice.
Also if this sudden Sansa v. Arya thing isn't an elaborate ploy to counter LF then this may actually be the most contrived thing in the show thus far.
matrix-cat
Member
Feels like a bit of a cop-out that the Westeros All-Stars suddenly had like five extra guys this episode. Last week we were all worried about our buds dying in the battle, but luckily Ser Randomguy of House Didn't-appear-in-the-last-episode and his bannermen were there to serve as cannon fodder so only Thoros of Myr had to die a named death.
Also, they need to cut this Arya/Sansa shit out real quick. It's like their approach to writing ideological disputes is to one side right and the other completely unreasonable. Arya is acting like a complete psycho; her position is indefensible and stupid. Six seasons of character development say she isn't like this, but whoops I guess we need Littlefinger to actually do some shit this year so lets throw all that shit out the window. All according to Littlefinger keikaku.
Also, they need to cut this Arya/Sansa shit out real quick. It's like their approach to writing ideological disputes is to one side right and the other completely unreasonable. Arya is acting like a complete psycho; her position is indefensible and stupid. Six seasons of character development say she isn't like this, but whoops I guess we need Littlefinger to actually do some shit this year so lets throw all that shit out the window. All according to Littlefinger keikaku.
Having longer episodes hasn't helped this season. They need more episodes.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Some of the whining about this episode has been ridiculous. I swear to god some don't pay attention half the time resulting in paragraphs of nonsense the show has already answered.
To give the others a chance.
To give the others a chance.
Agent Gibbs
Member
The whole sister story line is really silly really, considering the font of all knowledge is there
"hey Bran little finger was hiding this letter than proves Sansa is in league with cerise"
"Little Finger is trying to manipulate you like the Waife tried to manipulate you"
"Hey Bran arya has faces in her bag and sort of threatened me whats going on"
"She's trained as a faceless assassin, they use mage to disguise yourself, little finger is trying to put you against her and also I watched your rape"
I mean if they'd sent Bran off somewhere fine, but he literally is in the godswood or in his room, can't be hard to work out shit
"hey Bran little finger was hiding this letter than proves Sansa is in league with cerise"
"Little Finger is trying to manipulate you like the Waife tried to manipulate you"
"Hey Bran arya has faces in her bag and sort of threatened me whats going on"
"She's trained as a faceless assassin, they use mage to disguise yourself, little finger is trying to put you against her and also I watched your rape"
I mean if they'd sent Bran off somewhere fine, but he literally is in the godswood or in his room, can't be hard to work out shit
He was killed by the undead, but the children of the forest stopped him from turning into a wight.
Even the ravens started to have magical teleportation abilities and Dragons are flying at the speed of sound. This was the dumbest scene in GOT history. Nothing about it made any sense. They all would of died long before the Dragon was even close to rescuing them if this had happened in seasons 1-3. The contrived conflict between Arya and Sansa feel forced and is ridiculous because they can ask Bran at any point about anything for answers.
This episode was entertaining if you turn off your brain sort of way but it really shows how the writing has gotten way worse now that they have no material to adapt. This honestly does not even feel like Game of Thrones anymore.
This episode was entertaining if you turn off your brain sort of way but it really shows how the writing has gotten way worse now that they have no material to adapt. This honestly does not even feel like Game of Thrones anymore.
lol that's kind of a stretch
JadedWriter
Member
Viserion isn't a Nakama based creature.
Future PhaZe
Member
Arya's really gonna sit here checking receipts when she had 3 free faceless men kills to use and completely wasted them--all while Robb and Catelyn were still alive.
Seductivpancakes
Member
I'm positive several characters wore something similar to Bran's outfit. I'm positive at one point Dany had something similar.
New theory, they're ALL the Night King.
Even with my criticism of last night's episode earlier in the thread, yeah, I pretty much agree wholeheartedly like this. I mean, I definitely recognize that the writing/pacing are issues this season, but at the same time, I feel like what the show has lost in careful poor to and deliberate, measured pacing, it's more than made up for through the sheer scale and spectacle of it's major set-pieces and battles, as well as fully delivering on things we have waited years (and in the case of book readers, perhaps decades to see).
It's also worth pointing out that what we're seeing transpire here is happening on a TV show, which is insane. There's nothing else like this on TV right now, and I don't think there ever has been before. I'm not suggesting that this season is perfect, or that it isn't fair to call out the writers when the writing falters. I'm just suggesting that ultimately, these later seasons (thus far) offer a different set of strengths and weaknesses when compared to earlier seasons, and have their own merits. I can't wait for the season finale and the final season!
Ice Dragon Hype!!!
Of all things I didn't like in this episode, I think it was the second Deus ex machine that upsets me the most. Benjen even used the cliché line of "There's no time". Even tho letting a half to the death frozen guy ride a horse on his own is a a terrible idea.
My suspense of disbelieve can only accept a certain amount of BS, and this episode went overboard.
My suspense of disbelieve can only accept a certain amount of BS, and this episode went overboard.
Jon Snow vs Karl Tanner
Giant firing harpoon arrow
Wall Scythe
Wunwun at Hardhome
Undead avalanche
Jon Snow vs Unnamed White Walker
Night King Come At Me Bro
Jorgen Stab Stab Stab
Weak Men Will Never Rule Dorne Again
Summer Suicide Charge
Hold the Door
Amazing Single Take of Jon Kicking Ass
Jon Snow climbing out of the mountain of corpses
Cersei Sipping Wine and BOOOOOOOM (Play of the Game)
Drogon Roasting the Caravans
Bronne firing Scorpion into Dothraki
After all that...........
"Game of Thrones is really about the writing and not the spectacle."
LOL.
7he Talon
Member
I agree... but it's the internet after all.
Apparently is common among Northerns. Maybe the Night King stole one of their kits.
Nah, I think he's wrote.
shinra-bansho
Member
It was stupid. It didn't look like he needed to go wandering off at all.
I blame Jon for Viserion's death and now dislike his stupid know nothing ass even more.