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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

manfestival

manfestival

Member
Nerokis said:
My opinion could evolve after further evaluation, or after rewatching the episode with a different mindset, or as the season progresses...but this last episode might be a good candidate for the worst in the entire series.

Just can't remember an episode that was so disruptive to prior storytelling work, or so full of bizarrely rushed scenes. The jarring tonal shift of going from watching Dany burn alive a father and his son, to watching her appear over Jon to the tune of a blindly triumphant song. Jorah appearing out of nowhere, having his reunion with Dany awkwardly fitted into her post-battle reunion with Jon, and doing absolutely nothing before leaving her again. The ebb and flow of war that was established over the past four episodes suddenly morphing into a quest to capture a Wight. The fact that motherfucking Gendry went from being a meme to finding himself north of the wall as the Wight Crew's resident Berserker over the course of 10 minutes.

I ended the episode not knowing how to feel, but not feeling good overall. If the next couple episodes build on it well, I'm sure I'll think about it much more charitably.
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dont forget that they blow off the whole mountain and friends capturing by talking to a guard who said that they found them and captured them traveling nearby(but why). I completely forgot how out of place the music was when dany came in on the dragon. That scene was kinda hilarious. Everyone is just teleporting all over the place and there is so much being lost in between in favor of forwarding the plot. Jamie and Bronn somehow making it to the otherside of a lake in full armor safely escaping the battle. The fact that cersei is pregnant and we are supposed to care? Tyrion shows up and would have an awesome dialogue with Bronn( i would imagine) but we are robbed of that for the sake of time. There is also so much more.
 
P

Patrick Bateman

Member
Nerokis said:
My opinion could evolve after further evaluation, or after rewatching the episode with a different mindset, or as the season progresses...but this last episode might be a good candidate for the worst in the entire series.

Just can't remember an episode that was so disruptive to prior storytelling work, or so full of bizarrely rushed scenes. The jarring tonal shift of going from watching Dany burn alive a father and his son, to watching her appear over Jon to the tune of a blindly triumphant song. Jorah appearing out of nowhere, having his reunion with Dany awkwardly fitted into her post-battle reunion with Jon, and doing absolutely nothing before leaving her again. The ebb and flow of war that was established over the past four episodes suddenly morphing into a quest to capture a Wight. The fact that motherfucking Gendry went from being a meme to finding himself north of the wall as the Wight Crew's resident Berserker over the course of 10 minutes.

I ended the episode not knowing how to feel, but not feeling good overall. If the next couple episodes build on it well, I'm sure I'll think about it much more charitably.
Click to expand...

I got similar feelings. Especially with Gendry popping back up after all these seasons like "I got ma backpack ready. Hey guys, I'm Robert Baratheon's son! Let's go north!"
It feels very rushed in some places, yet it's also total fan service imo.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Haly said:
She could've torched a lot of them.

She torched two, and the rest bent the knee.

It was c a l c u l a t e d.

Genghis was a lot less forgiving than she is.
Click to expand...

Genghis wiped out whole cities because a few people resisted, said "fuck you" and fought a doomed battle. Tywin Lannister wiped whole families because the lords rebelled. The Greyjoys got their shit kicked in by Ned and Robert, because they rebelled. Jon hung the Night's Watchmen who betrayed him. Araya wiped out the Freys because they broke guest rights. Ramsay was executed due to his family's numerous crimes, and their betrayal of House Stark. Lord Umber and Lord Karstark would have been executed by Jon had they survived the battle. Jon would have killed Theon if it wasn't for what he did for Sansa.

But now, executing oath breakers is suddenly a line we don't cross because it's Daenerys Targaryen doing it.
 
R

RulkezX

Member
The Tarlys were Oathbreakers who turned after their rightful queen was murdered and betrayed their oath to High Garden.

Cersei would have given them to the Mountain if they were het bannermen and had pulled that shit and some of you would have written an essay on how awesome she was for doing it.

There are clearly people who've read the alleged spoilers and ate passing it off as their "theory" in this thread
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Dany has just reached "eating crackers like she owns the place" levels of mindless hate.
 
W

whitemex88

Member
I smell Dany coming to save them from that rock they seem to trap themselves on. I don't see how else there survive that. Plus didn't Emilia Clarke let slip that she did filming in Ireland?
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Ocarina_117 said:
Gendry and Jon have more chemistry and would be the more believable romance.
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highfive.gif
 
S

SurrenderDorothy

Banned
I respect Randyll and Dickon for sticking to their convictions.

I wish Dickon had lived, and I was initially disappointed in Dany.

But it's war, she gave them an ultimatum. They opted for death, it is what it is.

It's silly to fault Daenerys for it, the Tarlys should have been with the Tyrells, yet they broke their oath to side with Cersei.

LionPride said:
Yo, I'm on S3, can Kit fucking act?
Click to expand...

He's improved the last few seasons. Not the best actor on the show, he's pretty good and has some great moments.

Haly said:
Dany has just reached "eating crackers like she owns the place" levels of mindless hate.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, I can't fault Daenerys fans for being annoyed. Dany can't even move without someone getting irritated, lol.
 
T

The Emperor

Member
Nerokis said:
My opinion could evolve after further evaluation, or after rewatching the episode with a different mindset, or as the season progresses...but this last episode might be a good candidate for the worst in the entire series.

Just can't remember an episode that was so disruptive to prior storytelling work, or so full of bizarrely rushed scenes. The jarring tonal shift of going from watching Dany burn alive a father and his son, to watching her appear over Jon to the tune of a blindly triumphant song. Jorah appearing out of nowhere, having his reunion with Dany awkwardly fitted into her post-battle reunion with Jon, and doing absolutely nothing before leaving her again. The ebb and flow of war that was established over the past four episodes suddenly morphing into a quest to capture a Wight. The fact that motherfucking Gendry went from being a meme to finding himself north of the wall as the Wight Crew's resident Berserker over the course of 10 minutes.

I ended the episode not knowing how to feel, but not feeling good overall. If the next couple episodes build on it well, I'm sure I'll think about it much more charitably.
Click to expand...

You summarised my thoughts

A mere episode or two ago there was a clear convo where it was said Dany gave people a choice of whether to go with her or be free. She has done the exact opposite.

But I do struggle with that as I guess she has to show she has some strength as a ruler to get others to follow.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
The Emperor said:
You summarised my thoughts

A mere episode or two ago there was a clear convo where it was said Dany gave people a choice of whether to go with her or be free. She has done the exact opposite.

But I do struggle with that as I guess she has to show she has some strength as a ruler to get others to follow.
Click to expand...

Do some of you not understand the difference between telling someone who has done nothing to you that you are free to do as you like, and telling people who just got done wiping out your allies, that they have an option of being forgiven or being executed for the crimes they committed?
 
O

OrionX

Member
Ocarina_117 said:
Gendry and Jon have more chemistry and would be the more believable romance.
Click to expand...

Wow I've been on the Dany train all this time but you could be onto something. If Jon and Gendry decided to rule together they'd be unstoppable. Dat Targaryen/Stark/Baratheon triple threat. :p
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
Heshinsi said:
Do some of you not understand the difference between telling someone who has done nothing to you that you are free to do as you like, and telling people who just got done wiping out your allies, that they have an option of being forgiven or being executed for the crimes they committed?
Click to expand...

image.php
 
S

SurrenderDorothy

Banned
Heshinsi said:
Do some of you not understand the difference between telling someone who has done nothing to you that you are free to do as you like, and telling people who just got done wiping out your allies, that they have an option of being forgiven or being executed for the crimes they committed?
Click to expand...

It should be obvious to some that one is a potential ally and the others being an opposing army in the middle of war, I don't know why it's being twisted this way, lmao.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Heshinsi said:
Genghis wiped out whole cities because a few people resisted, said "fuck you" and fought a doomed battle. Tywin Lannister wiped whole families because the lords rebelled. The Greyjoys got their shit kicked in by Ned and Robert, because they rebelled. Jon hung the Night's Watchmen who betrayed him. Araya wiped out the Freys because they broke guest rights. Ramsay was executed due to his family's numerous crimes, and their betrayal of House Stark. Lord Umber and Lord Karstark would have been executed by Jon had they survived the battle. Jon would have killed Theon if it wasn't for what he did for Sansa.

But now, executing oath breakers is suddenly a line we don't cross because it's Daenerys Targaryen doing it.
Click to expand...

It doesn't fit with the narrative of her character from any other point in the show. Everywhere else it was "you're free, follow me if you want, whatever." Here it was "follow me or die." I get that it's an army in what she perceives as direct rebellion against her rightful rule, but even the logic behind the decision - I'm a breaker of chains, so I can't take any prisoners - what sort of stupid fucking rule is that? Is that going to be her approach to justice? Close all the prisons, I do not lock people up; from now on, every crime is capital.

Also, her army right now is fiercely loyal specifically because she freed them all (and the Dothraki just like killing people). How is adding a bunch of soldiers that might still be loyal to Cersei/Tarly and only serve under fear of getting roasted by a dragon going to help morale? Good news; I just increased my army by a few hundred recruits, most of whom hate me and will gladly spy for the enemy or just straight up abandon us if the opportunity presents itself. All I had to do was roast their liege lord in front of them. I'm so good at queening!
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Nerokis said:
My opinion could evolve after further evaluation, or after rewatching the episode with a different mindset, or as the season progresses...but this last episode might be a good candidate for the worst in the entire series.

Just can't remember an episode that was so disruptive to prior storytelling work, or so full of bizarrely rushed scenes. The jarring tonal shift of going from watching Dany burn alive a father and his son, to watching her appear over Jon to the tune of a blindly triumphant song. Jorah appearing out of nowhere, having his reunion with Dany awkwardly fitted into her post-battle reunion with Jon, and doing absolutely nothing before leaving her again. The ebb and flow of war that was established over the past four episodes suddenly morphing into a quest to capture a Wight. The fact that motherfucking Gendry went from being a meme to finding himself north of the wall as the Wight Crew's resident Berserker over the course of 10 minutes.

I ended the episode not knowing how to feel, but not feeling good overall. If the next couple episodes build on it well, I'm sure I'll think about it much more charitably.
Click to expand...

Gotta agree with this. It all feels so rushed. I'm not talking about just teleportation, but the story transitions here are just too quickly. Dany was literally just getting her ass handed to her in the battle and I know the dragons turned the tide but everyone seems really too happy to just put aside this shit for what probably amounts to weeks or months as Jon goes to capture a fucking wight? Does she even believe him at this point? For being someone so skeptical she's really going to give Cersei time to come up with a plan?

And how the fuck are they going to capture a wight. There's no planning at all shown and it's just such a crazy transition from the previous focus of the show and every character.

Jorah being reunited and then peacing out so quickly over a quest Dany isn't even heads over heals for because why the fuck would she be is just strange, too.

And then yeah the fan service of Gendry was so brazen. Especially after killing off the sand snakes this season that line was basically D&D saying "Yeah we hear you and this shit is just exactly what you wanted, because why the fuck not?"

Some of this could have been fixed by Sam and Jorah having some conversation about the White Walkers and what Sam saw as he was helping Jorah. Give them a bond that pops up a bit more. Have Jorah go back and tell Dany what his healer, Sam, said. Make that be the catalyst that gets her to listen even more intently to Jon and decide she'll hold off for a bit, but make her firm on just how long Jon gets for her ceasefire to return with his proof.

Boom, shit makes more sense.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Atomic Playboy said:
It doesn't fit with the narrative of her character from any other point in the show. Everywhere else it was "you're free, follow me if you want, whatever." Here it was "follow me or die." I get that it's an army in what she perceives as direct rebellion against her rightful rule, but even the logic behind the decision - I'm a breaker of chains, so I can't take any prisoners - what sort of stupid fucking rule is that? Is that going to be her approach to justice? Close all the prisons, I do not lock people up; from now on, every crime is capital.

Also, her army right now is fiercely loyal specifically because she freed them all (and the Dothraki just like killing people). How is adding a bunch of soldiers that might still be loyal to Cersei/Tarly and only serve under fear of getting roasted by a dragon going to help morale? Good news; I just increased my army by a few hundred recruits, most of whom hate me and will gladly spy for the enemy or just straight up abandon us if the opportunity presents itself. All I had to do was roast their liege lord in front of them. I'm so good at queening!
Click to expand...

Because they weren't fighting a war against her. The people she was talking to in Essos were people she fought for, released from enslavement, and then asked them if they wanted to join her. Not defeated armies full of lords who betrayed her allies. Like I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to get.
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
Atomic Playboy said:
It doesn't fit with the narrative of her character from any other point in the show. Everywhere else it was "you're free, follow me if you want, whatever." Here it was "follow me or die." I get that it's an army in what she perceives as direct rebellion against her rightful rule, but even the logic behind the decision - I'm a breaker of chains, so I can't take any prisoners - what sort of stupid fucking rule is that? Is that going to be her approach to justice? Close all the prisons, I do not lock people up; from now on, every crime is capital.

Also, her army right now is fiercely loyal specifically because she freed them all (and the Dothraki just like killing people). How is adding a bunch of soldiers that might still be loyal to Cersei/Tarly and only serve under fear of getting roasted by a dragon going to help morale? Good news; I just increased my army by a few hundred recruits, most of whom hate me and will gladly spy for the enemy or just straight up abandon us if the opportunity presents itself. All I had to do was roast their liege lord in front of them. I'm so good at queening!
Click to expand...

Sure it does, she gave the Masters of Yunkai and Astapor a similar ultimatum after they attacked her last season. Like Randyll they insulted and denied her and like the Tarly's they were killed. What about when she had her advisor killed for killing the Harpy before he could stand trial like she commanded? And don't forget what happened to Viserys when he threatened & denounced her or The Richest Man in Qarth when he betrayed her.

Crossing Daeny has always been a dangerous proposition and this is war. Even Ned knew how it worked and was originally ready to die instead of bending the knee to Joffrey.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Dany's been waiting for someone to touch her dragons all her life.
 
Randomizer

Randomizer

Member
Considering signing up as an extra for the final season. I assume they'll need a lot of people for the huge battle against The White Walkers. It would make for a nice send off and memory too. It's still surreal to me that I live where they film this, hasn't really sunk in after all these years.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Nameless said:
Sure it does, she gave the Masters of Yunkai and Astapor a similar ultimatum after they attacked her last season. Like Randyll they insulted and denied her and like the Tarly's they were killed. What about when she had her advisor killed for killing the Harpy before he could stand trial like she commanded? And don't forget what happened to Viserys when he threatened & denounced her or The Richest Man in Qarth when he betrayed her.

Crossing Daeny has always been a dangerous proposition and this is war. Even Ned knew how it worked and was originally ready to die instead of bending the knee to Joffrey.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's right. She threatened the Masters. Not the foot soldiers following orders. Now, sure, she only ended up roasting the lord and his son, but before they came forward she flat-out told every single soldier there "I will kill you if you do not bend the knee." And that's a dramatic shift from the persona she had in Essos. The show has set her up as this freedom-bringing holier-than-thou type, and as soon as she loses a couple battles, she turns into Joffrey? She even mentioned not wanting to be lord of the ashes earlier in the season. Now she's straight up "I will kill anyone who doesn't bow." And, regardless of whether you think that's tonally inconsistent with her earlier portrayal, it's still a shitty way to build your army, because now you're adding soldiers who have no loyalty to you, fear you and possibly hate you... you don't want those people in your ranks!
 
S

SurrenderDorothy

Banned
Anyone catch what the maesters were talking about with regards to myths?

Mentioning a "Prophet Lobos" who claimed "the Drowned God will rise up and destroy Aegon the Conqueror".

Could be related to Euron & Dany in the near future.
 
D

Dreez

Member
manfestival said:
dont forget that they blow off the whole mountain and friends capturing by talking to a guard who said that they found them and captured them traveling nearby(but why). I completely forgot how out of place the music was when dany came in on the dragon. That scene was kinda hilarious. Everyone is just teleporting all over the place and there is so much being lost in between in favor of forwarding the plot. Jamie and Bronn somehow making it to the otherside of a lake in full armor safely escaping the battle. The fact that cersei is pregnant and we are supposed to care? Tyrion shows up and would have an awesome dialogue with Bronn( i would imagine) but we are robbed of that for the sake of time. There is also so much more.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is... maybe they should've kept it 10 episodes/season
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
Atomic Playboy said:
Yes, that's right. She threatened the Masters. Not the foot soldiers following orders. Now, sure, she only ended up roasting the lord and his son, but before they came forward she flat-out told every single soldier there "I will kill you if you do not bend the knee." And that's a dramatic shift from the persona she had in Essos. The show has set her up as this freedom-bringing holier-than-thou type, and as soon as she loses a couple battles, she turns into Joffrey? She even mentioned not wanting to be lord of the ashes earlier in the season. Now she's straight up "I will kill anyone who doesn't bow." And, regardless of whether you think that's tonally inconsistent with her earlier portrayal, it's still a shitty way to build your army, because now you're adding soldiers who have no loyalty to you, fear you and possibly hate you... you don't want those people in your ranks!
Click to expand...

She burned a ship or two full of slave soldiers when the Masters attacked and most of their army flocked to her side.

That she threatened to #burnthemall and still gave the grunts several chances after that sorta destroys your Joffrey comparison. Ramsay gleefully went over the battlefield after beating Stannis looking for people to mop up. Survivors weren't given a chance to live.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
SurrenderDorothy said:
Anyone catch what the maesters were talking about with regards to myths?

Mentioning a "Prophet Lobos" who claimed "the Drowned God will rise up and destroy Aegon the Conqueror".

Could be related to Euron & Dany in the near future.
Click to expand...

There would be riots if Euron killed Dany. RIOTS
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
SurrenderDorothy said:
Yeah, Euron won't kill Dany lmao. I highly doubt that.

Just saying they may come to blows, maybe a dragon suffers? I don't know.

It was an interesting line though.
Click to expand...

It kinda gave off the feeling like it was maybe some stories told in the books or something.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
Dreez said:
So what you're saying is... maybe they should've kept it 10 episodes/season
Click to expand...

Then there would be episodes full of a shitload of travel and conversation and people would bitch about the 'pacing' and episodes where "nothing happened" and talks of "filler episodes" and whatnot. Just look at past seasons. Im with the others, if this show doesn't put a bunch of spectacle, it just doesn't impress certain folks and they shit on it.

Not saying the show is perfect, but holy hell. Bugging out because they don't show tons and tons of horse and boat travel is just bizarre, not to mention having a fit about Gendry when all they did was cry about him since season 3. I personally love the "dont waste my time" nature of dense episodes like this. But I like that in every show I watch. I prefer shows where you can't really miss a minute or you end up lost.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
WIth the amount of traveling this season, ten episodes wouldn't have been enough for the pacing that was happening in the early seasons. We'd need, like, 3 seasons just to cover all the traveling happening right now.

Jon needs to go from Dragonstone to East Watch? See you in 4 episodes.
 
H

Harrison Bergeron

Member
RDreamer said:
Gotta agree with this. It all feels so rushed. I'm not talking about just teleportation, but the story transitions here are just too quickly. Dany was literally just getting her ass handed to her in the battle and I know the dragons turned the tide but everyone seems really too happy to just put aside this shit for what probably amounts to weeks or months as Jon goes to capture a fucking wight? Does she even believe him at this point? For being someone so skeptical she's really going to give Cersei time to come up with a plan?

And how the fuck are they going to capture a wight. There's no planning at all shown and it's just such a crazy transition from the previous focus of the show and every character.

Jorah being reunited and then peacing out so quickly over a quest Dany isn't even heads over heals for because why the fuck would she be is just strange, too.

And then yeah the fan service of Gendry was so brazen. Especially after killing off the sand snakes this season that line was basically D&D saying "Yeah we hear you and this shit is just exactly what you wanted, because why the fuck not?"

Some of this could have been fixed by Sam and Jorah having some conversation about the White Walkers and what Sam saw as he was helping Jorah. Give them a bond that pops up a bit more. Have Jorah go back and tell Dany what his healer, Sam, said. Make that be the catalyst that gets her to listen even more intently to Jon and decide she'll hold off for a bit, but make her firm on just how long Jon gets for her ceasefire to return with his proof.

Boom, shit makes more sense.
Click to expand...

They've definitely thrown the art of storytelling out of the window at this point, and everything is instrumental, and there are some huge plot holes and armor in place, but I 'm still having fun.
 
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