The dragon died though. It's a dead dragon, reanimated by the night king. I don't think dead things can breed.
It's an ice dragon because it's a wight, not because it's a special breed of dragon that breathes ice.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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It's an ice dragon because it's a wight, not because it's a special breed of dragon that breathes ice.
Yup, if that camp fire was his, which I think it was, then it means he was near by and saw that whole incident happen but there was literally zero he could do to help them out so he hid and watched. Then the battle happened and when he saw Jon crawl out, he saw that he could actually help and ran down to give him his horse.
If that campfire wasn't his, then he just rode in from somewhere because he heard the commotion or something, I dunno.
It does because your criticism, by using that term, is saying that there was zero set up and it just came out of nowhere, when the opposite is true. Saying it's contrived or nonsensical is very different than saying it was not set up.
The Artisan
Member
They could have yeah, but I think the show just wanted us to be surprised because people were wondering a. the last time we saw Benjen was when he left Meera & Bran so when will see him again and b. (which dates backs for seasons) when will Jon see Benjen again and they kill 2 birds with 1 stone technically and left an element of surprise since we don't know what Jon's gonna do while he's dying from hypothermia and an army zombies are running towards him again
lol. I wish. But I'd be disappointed if any of that happened off-screen.
It's going to bother me so much when Jon Snow is back to 100% strength next episode after nearly dying from hypothermia. Just take some time to let things settle down...
They can do a flashback lol
You're really hung up over something like that? I'm sorry improper use of the term upsets you - I'll try not to do it again. I have since tried to make it clear what I meant so let's just move on.....
cartographer
Member
lol. I wish. But I'd be disappointed if any of that happened off-screen.
It's going to bother me so much when Jon Snow is back to 100% strength next episode after nearly dying from hypothermia. Just take some time to let things settle down...
He needs to be 100% so he can do something stupid and get rescued again. Train keeps moving.
What are we supposed to be seeing here? What's the theory or significance?
The Artisan
Member
here's the thing with Arya & anymore twists they throw our way:
once the show is over & done with, I don't want to rewatch it while there will be several, several underlying scenes where I already know and am waiting for a twist to come up. The r+l=j revelation in the s6 finale was marvelous and brilliant. the Arya killing Walder was great too - but those types of things the first time you watch it you'll be shocked and the second time you're just waiting for it coz you already know it happened.
And I know that's literally how it is after watching/reading any story for the first time; the next time, you know everything already. But with twists it's different since it's a part of the story that is hidden and underlying from what's actually being told and often times it involves stuff that you know that the character doesn't, or the character knows and the audience doesn't etc.
This show has already thrown a lot of twists and turns, subverted a whole lot of expectations, but they don't need to keep on doing that to finish off the story in a good way. Things are already going in a semi-brighter way; Jon won the battle of the bastards; not Ramsay. Now was there ever a debate on whether it'd be more, or less, predictable for the good guy or bad guy to win that battle?
6 seasons in, the good guys have been suffering for years so at this point it'd be nice to see the good guys having a semi-happy (bittersweet) ending instead of throwing in another twist that turns the story into a hurdle
Ehh, maybe. Meli did convince Dany to meet with Jon, but Bran has either been doing subtle things that could have a huge payoff this Sunday or I'm reading into too much. Giving Arya the dagger seemed like a deliberate move on his part outside of it being wasted on him. Messing with Littlefinger but laying low since seems pretty deliberate too. He was also the catalyst for the mission up North. It could all be for nothing or be/has been poorly presented, but I want to see how the season as a whole ends before declaring Bran has done jack shit.
Not hung up or upset, just pointed out that your criticism didn't make sense, and then you tried to claim it did because you thought the term meant something that it didn't.
I'm hoping there is a big payoff. (I think there is, at least for the Arya/Sansa stuff). The thing is: if Bran gave Arya the dagger for some specific purpose he foresaw - he should've just said so. "Look, Littlefinger will try to put a wedge between you two and convince the Northern Lords to betray Jon ... you know what to do". Not this roundabout nonsense with: "I'm a cripple, I can't use it :| ". Just say what people need to know. It's like Seinfeld.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I love what they've done this season surrounding the dragons. We are told Dany and her dragons could easily crush King's Landing. Then "oh no! Cersei has a huge scorpion/bolt/bow thing!" And we get nervous. Then the loot train attack happens and we see the dragons rock the Lannister army. Then Bronn whips out the big one, and tension gets high. We might see a dragon go down. Then he hits...and it is a damn pin prick. We realize in this moment that these dragons are absolute monsters, and we had no reason to be nervous. In the next episode, Jamie is absolutely horrified at their destruction, and flatout tells Bronn they stand 0 chance. Then the next time the dragons get action, they are saving the gang north of the wall. And kicking all kinds of ass. Then the Night King throws a spear and takes down a dragon with little to no effort. Damn. All of this buildup for how great these dragons are so that we can see how truly powerul and scary these white walkers are. Shit just got real.
That is my ramble. I love it.
That is my ramble. I love it.
This is what I thought was going to happen during my first watch. Could have been a nice moment, but maybe they have something else in mind if they're going to have Jon ride a dragon. It does feel weird that Tormund and the others got to ride a dragon before Jon.
People not understanding that days or weeks pass between scenes is weird, should've understood that since seasons ago, however, I especially find the time complaints for this episode a bit odd. We see that they've been walking since morning and by the time that Gendry gets sent back, it's not even night, and when he arrives it's already night and this is doubly established in another night shot on the rock, and then later we cut back to them and Thoros has died and it's day again, so it's safe to assume a good bit of time has passed by now.
The longest period of time here has to do with how much time we think a raven would take to go from the Wall down to Dragonstone. Is half a day enough time? Maybe? I dunno. It's not the biggest stretch to imagine it didn't take that long for Dany to fly her dragons there, though, those fuckers are fast as hell.
The Artisan
Member
It seems like Rhaegal just went rogue after Viserion got shot...he just flies away into the distance. Like he was afraid the Night king would get him next.
In the scene where Dany is waiting for Jon at Eastwatch, only Drogon is flying overhead on the wall, so..
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The inability to communicate time visually is probably worse.
When for 6 seasons, a show established a narrative and visual language, then abandons it and expects viewers to fill in the blanks, the fault doesn't lie with the viewers. There are many ways of communcicating that a lot of time has passed in a short amount of screen time.
Yeah, I can't quite pinpoint what the show has planned for the Winterfell stuff. It will be interesting to see how it wraps up.
I was thinking she was waiting for Rhaegal at the wall, but her not mentioning it makes me think it's just a CG budget thing. I wonder why the show runners didn't use this scene as an excuse to kill Ghost. May be they have some cool plans for him.
Nameless
Member
I haven't followed this thread much the last couple days, but it's not even surprising people didn't notice that big ass circular hole in the lake freezing back over(and more solid than before no less).
The time table was definitely accelerated, but some time did pass.
Vincent Alexander
Member
They showed day go to night then day again. Maybe they could have done more, like have one of the gang throw out a comment. Or Tyrion tell Dany "it's been X days. They're surely dead by now." But they at least put in some effort.
I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread with people who didn't understand the span of time and those that did understand it and didn't like it. Or rather....some here are arguing against one group and mean to be against the other, or vice-versa.
That was a really clever scene . Maybe too subtle, though.
Edit: I meant with the lake freezing over and the hound throwing rocks.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Ah. Never mind!
The Artisan
Member
I don't see how Rhaegal's absence was a budget thing. It was a quick 1 minute shot of Drogo flying in the sky, how hard would it have been to also animate Rhaegal there for a minute?
In the scene that Viserion dies, Rhaegal disappears immediately; I suppose it can be presumed that he just flew back to Dragonstone since it's Drogon alone escaping from the winter zombie army but right now it's kinda unclear. Maybe...they'll pull a Nymeria and have Rhaegal gone for now only to show up at just the right time for Jon.
edit: also, Ghost was namedropped by Sansa in the last episode. "Did Jon think the Northern lords were just gonna sit around and wait for him like Ghost?"
Megalosaro
Banned
If multiple days passed, then that's something else. Jeez, having to fight after multiple days of freezing without food. That's sucks.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Without food? They had plenty of red shirts to eat.
Idk, CG can be expensive. Did I miss dany saying anything about Rhaegal then? It would be completely out of character for her to leave when she doesn't know if it's alive or dead.
Speaking of the chains, they came from this thing. I've no idea what it is, though.
Way on the left.
You can see a close up of it with some more chains on it.
An old caravan wagon that was carrying chains, obviously.
Imperfected
Member
In terms of showing the span of time, I think the director was relying on the audience assuming that the nights are longer in the Lands of Always Winter, which is definitely one of those things that you can't expect your audience to take for granted in a world where summer/winter is not based on an annual solar calendar. For all we know this planet isn't even round.
As far as not liking it... yeah, I'm not real keen on the idea of them being there for three or more days. That's actually a harder sell for me than, "Dany just got there really fast because everything flies at supersonic speeds. Shut up."
I agree with the dragon bit, but they also reduced the entire White Walker threat to just one dude. Kill the Night King, and it's all over. Pull a Robb or Jaime by baiting him with one thing, and then throw the bulk of your forces at him in an attempt to kill him.
The Artisan
Member
CGI can get expensive but all the times that they've shown the dragons, they've showed them all simultaneously - except for the ending of episode 4 and the beginning of episode 5. Episode 1, we see all 3 of them fly to Dragonstone. Episode 3, Drogon flies over Jon, and Rhaegal and Viserion can be seen by the castle. Episode 4, all 3 of them in the distance then Dany asks Jon for advice. Episode 5, Jon pets Drogon and then he flies to his brothers. Episode 6, they all leave together, one dies, one flies away in one direction and one in another and in the end, we just see one of them.
Vincent Alexander
Member
That's true too. The moment those wights fell apart from Jon killing one I was like "no no no. Please god, no." So yeah...I'm not a fan of that.
Rhaegal booked it after Viserion crashed and died. He probably flew back home.
I assumed it was just 12 or so hours. Three days seems like a really long time for what they showed.
Bounceounce
Member
I think the idea that posters going for is that it's supposed to be some sort of "re-birth" or direction change for the three characters.
He knew he had to make it out so Jon could ride him in season 8.
ComputerBlue
Member
What I didn't get from that part was, why did they all shatter except one?
At first I thought maybe they were just skeletal wights that he was controlling, but even if it was, the one they captured was pretty much down to the bone as well.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Because Jeff was hanging out with a new crew that day. His daddy must've been somewhere else.
It probably belonged to a different witewalker.
I like the idea that the Night King can see the future, and unlike Bran actually plans for it - so he laid a trap.
They mentioned that when they got to the rock. They were discussing that the ones that fell apart were probably raised by the White Walker Jon killed, and the other one was raised by someone else. Hence Beric trying to convince Jon for them to go after the Night King.
ComputerBlue
Member
Thanks.
And I missed that discussion, gotta rewatch.
Also lol @ Jeff.
And I missed that discussion, gotta rewatch.
Also lol @ Jeff.
The Artisan
Member
is it possible that the Night king is ever going to "talk" to Jon before one of them tries to kill the other? Like, the Night king says wtf is on his mind other than wanting to kill everyone or is he basically just another film Sauron who is evil one dimensionally personified
mercenar1e
Member
is everyone on board with the Night King being Bran? hes got spears and chains ready just waiting for the Dragons to appear. I still say it makes the most sense to me and it might explain how the children lost control of their creation.
Vincent Alexander
Member
No. Bran is the old man. The 3 Eyed Raven from the tree. And Bran the Builder.
I still bet my left shoe on that first part.
I still bet my left shoe on that first part.
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