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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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curiouscharles
Member
i'll need to rewatch / research, but i believe Ned and Nan mentioned the others at least in season 1.
just checked, and Melisandre definitely refers to "two gods" in season 4 [i think?]:
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/22z32g/spoilers_all_the_great_others_first_mention/
Melisandre's words in the show: "Septons speak of seven Gods, there are but two: a God of light and love and joy; and a God of darkness, evil and fear. Eternally at war"
anyway, still very surface level, but it's at least implied that there'a a Satan [so to speak] to act as foil to The Lord of Light.
[and i think it's safe to say you'd presume that that's who's "rooting for", at least, the white walkers]
In the religion of the Red Priestesses there is God and Satan, yes. Light = Good, Dark = Bad is something they have mentioned off hand a few times throughout the series. Just like how the Seven are a religion built less on opposition and more on aspects of life. Self-improvement through reflection and prayer, etc. In the end, these are all just religions, and stuff people believe. None of it seems to have significant bearing on the reality of the world - which is that things are the consequence of actions people take and not the mechanisms of deities. It's certainly an interesting take for fantasy, and one of the few things the show actually nails with the setting.
curiouscharles
Member
hunh?
it's very clearly implied in the show that the PtwP is the tool / prophet / whatever tf you wanna call it of the LoL...
and despite Mel never being able to figure out who tf the PtwP is... the show tries to hint pretty hard that it's Jon [but who knows if it'll be him in the end].
hard disagree.
yes, hard agree.
i think you're right in that D&D chose to focus on this particular aspect, the human one [smart, works phenomenally for tv / film / etc], and they've done it quite well.
None of it seems to have significant bearing on the reality of the world - which is that things are the consequence of actions people take and not the mechanisms of deities.
Imperfected
Member
All life, rather than just humans.
Hence why the modern Children of the Forest like Leaf are sort of thinking, "You know, in retrospect, the T-1000 may not have been our best idea."
Someone saying something and believing it doesn't make it true. Many religions in the world believe in a savior who is to come, or that a special man can become something more. Believing they were chosen can be a motivating factor for some, but in the end, it doesn't mean anything to those who don't believe. Men can achieve great things and do great evil, but the idea that such men could be the chosen savior of prophecy or the anti-Christ which was foretold is only relevant to those who choose to be religious.
The Others are just what the White Walkers are called in the books. There is really no significance beyond that. I don't know why it was changed for the show. Same thing with R'hilor = Lord of Light. They are the same thing.
Melisandre tells Shireen that there are only two gods and not seven in S04E02, one a god of light (R'hilor/Lord of Light) and one of darkness (Great Other). She doesn't say those names and refers to them more vaguely but I don't know why it matters. R'hilor has also been used in the show during S03E06 in a conversation between Melisandre and Thoros in Valerian when he calls her a priestess of R'hilor. Seems just to be a creative decision to use Lord of Light instead/more often.
Of all the things to want to keep out this thread this might be the most innocuous. Its the equivalent of a book using Jehovah and Lucifer and a show adaptation using God and The Devil. Meaning is the same.
It has more to do with using book names for things, and saying how X is actually Y, when that information hasn't been talked about in the show. This "Great Other" is the Night King as far as the show is concerned and it has never been implied that there is a greater evil than him and everything the Lord of Light has done is to fight the Night King, at least according to his followers in the show. So when I bring up the Night King as being the other side of the coin, in relation to the Lord of Light, it made no sense to start talking about the Others and the Great Other, things that have never been spoken about in the show.
watching old episodes is fun...
why the hell didn´t the seven arrest littlefinger? I mean they arrested the queen, the queen mother and Loras....but littlefinger was all "hey, I´m here on official businness, so leave me alone"....like WTH!!!!!!!
and I believe that littlefinger will die in the next episode
arya, who has been watching littlefinger know´s he´s up to something, I like to believe that arya knows that littlefinger is trying to seperate them since LF cannot control arya, but he can Sansa...yet...and the scene when arya confronts sansa and says she want´s to play a game....she is literally testing sansa and checking out whether she is truthful or not....and to me the scene where she gives sansa the dagger...is her way of saying I forgive you and believe you.
I think next episode will have some sort of climax when LF tries to stir the pot at WF by saying that Sansa should be the ruler and then Arya steps in and Bran as well and they reveal LF as who he really is.
I mean, when you think about it....bran told LF that chaos is a ladder...so he must somehow know that bran has some superpowers....then why would he be stupid enough to try something like that while bran is there? just plain stupid?!? who knows.
why the hell didn´t the seven arrest littlefinger? I mean they arrested the queen, the queen mother and Loras....but littlefinger was all "hey, I´m here on official businness, so leave me alone"....like WTH!!!!!!!
and I believe that littlefinger will die in the next episode
arya, who has been watching littlefinger know´s he´s up to something, I like to believe that arya knows that littlefinger is trying to seperate them since LF cannot control arya, but he can Sansa...yet...and the scene when arya confronts sansa and says she want´s to play a game....she is literally testing sansa and checking out whether she is truthful or not....and to me the scene where she gives sansa the dagger...is her way of saying I forgive you and believe you.
I think next episode will have some sort of climax when LF tries to stir the pot at WF by saying that Sansa should be the ruler and then Arya steps in and Bran as well and they reveal LF as who he really is.
I mean, when you think about it....bran told LF that chaos is a ladder...so he must somehow know that bran has some superpowers....then why would he be stupid enough to try something like that while bran is there? just plain stupid?!? who knows.
There are many good criticisms of this episode in this thread and I agree that the direction was shoddy as well, but some of you guys are just forgetting shit or not paying attention.
So Dany not being inept would have been going the Jaime route? Saying YOLO for an all or nothing shot at winning the war by going after the Night King and hoping dragonfire can destroy a legendary, thousands-of-years-old ice god? Someone who she knows is hard to kill from the cave drawings?
I'm also surprised people want the Night King to talk or have character development. Do you guys not get that the entire story is about people trying to come together despite their differences to fight against a a greater, all-consuming evil? The story is ultimately not that different from LOTR. Jon and Beric's conversation literally explains what this story is about. Night King being anything other than silent death incarnate fucks that up.
How is that even remotely the same as what Jaime did? Jaime charged a dragon with a spear, Dany would charge a human-sized enemy with three full-grown dragons. A human-sized enemy she knows can be killed by dragonglass and Valyrian Steel and what do Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass have in common? They're both made with the help of dragonfire. Anyone with half a brain would at least try to see if dragonfire can kill them as well.
Also, about the second point, is it really so surprising people want more from the Night King? The entire show (like the books) was built on the philosophy that there is no absolute good and evil and that being heroic or lorally good will more than often lead to your demise, something the writers seem to have completely forgotten.
There are many good criticisms of this episode in this thread and I agree that the direction was shoddy as well, but some of you guys are just forgetting shit or not paying attention.
So Dany not being inept would have been going the Jaime route? Saying YOLO for an all or nothing shot at winning the war by going after the Night King and hoping dragonfire can destroy a legendary, thousands-of-years-old ice god? Someone who she knows is hard to kill from the cave drawings?
Well if any physical force can hurt the Night King and his generals, it's the goddamn Dragonfire. Would at least melt the generals and their weapons most likely.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Their weapons have spells that make them immune to anything that isn't composed of dragon glass.
The only thing burnin them would do is make their armor hot and kill their horses, they are completely immune to anything that's not dragon glass or has dragon glass in it
Has there been any sign of the Great Other in the series? Or does it refer to the Night King? (because others=white walkers). Because at this point we have seen plenty of events of what is assumed to be due to the Lord of Light. So we know there is at least a legit force at play there, though the intentions are unclear.
Pfah, you just parry-riposte that shit.
We know the following
- There are two gods of the red priestess faith, one light and one dark. Melisandre mentions this and always refers to her enemies as choosing/serving the darkness.
- The NK was a man (not a god) turned into the first WW by the children of the forest to fight the first men for them (presumably shit went wrong).
- The prince that was promised is supposed to defeat the NK. Melisandre mistakenly thought this was Stannis but now it looks clearly to be John. He is supposed to carry the sword Lightbringer, which Stannis thought he had.
I think we are supposed to see John and the NK as champions of good and evil. The show keeps reinforcing it with their staredowns at Hardholm and the last episode. Longclaw probably ends up being Lightbringer but we still don't know why it is so important.
We just don't know enough about the WW's to know anything about this other god Melisandre mentioned other than its an god of evil. I don't think the NK is the evil god mentioned by Melisandre as he was clearly a man once. The show also muddies things up by suggesting the old gods might be real too with things like the Children and the three eye raven. I don't think we are ever going to get any clear answers with regard to religion in GoT.
I hope there is more to him than merely existing to wipe out humanity. Things like who was he before he turned into NK, why did the Children of the Forest chose him specifically, why does it seem like he has the same powers like Bran (was he a greenseer?), why did he turn against the Children of the Forest make me want to know more about him. Things got adressed very vaguely regarding the NK and WW and the fact that there are seven episodes left makes me thing the show will basically ignore the background of NK/WW.
Also, anybody else missing this guy:
8-Bit Sunset
Banned
Littlefinger left the capital in season 4. The religious fanatics raise to power (thanks Cersei) in season 5. How exactly were they supposed to arrest Littlefinger?
Y'all think Dany shows up and already know whose who? I think her more pressing concern was about saving Jon and friends, and once the area around them was cleared, she lands with Drogon to pick them up. I don't think she has the ability to snap her fingers, point at a target and go, "Viserion, Rheagal, go and spit fire on that target!" She has to do that with Drogon.
BossDarkseid
Member
D+D said they debated writing dialogue for him back in that Craster's Children episode but decided against it, since the White Walkers are a force of nature. To give them personality and humanize them would go against that...
However we then got the "origin", so who knows now.
He comes back to the KL to reassure Cersei of his loyalty and gets stopped by sparrows who don't approve of brothels. But they haven't reached the point of defying the queen mother yet, so they let him pass.
BossDarkseid
Member
I hope there is more to him than merely existing to wipe out humanity. Things like who was he before he turned into NK, why did the Children of the Forest chose him specifically, why does it seem like he has the same powers like Bran (was he a greenseer?), why did he turn against the Children of the Forest make me want to know more about him. Things got adressed very vaguely regarding the NK and WW and the fact that there are seven episodes left makes me thing the show will basically ignore the background of NK/WW.
Also, anybody else missing this guy:
I think you might be looking for the wrong answers in regards to "Why did the COTF choose him" etc. I don't think that's really important, whether he's one of the First Men who came to Westeros or anyone else. The oft discusses nuclear weapon analogy might go someway towards answering your question about his revolt...
As in it's not that he revolted against the COTF, but they became part of the problem. The WW were created as an unstoppable force so when the COTF try to shut them down because they realize they are too powerful...they become an issue.
It'd still be fun to see some answers, but imo they're not that important.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
they probably follow the old guy's orders. He strategically tells them who to arrest. LF just kinda showed up and then bounced shortly afterwards when he saw what was happening.
First Men came to Westeros. Found the Children of the Forest living in the lands with strange ways and weird magics. First Men killed the Children for the land. Children fought back. Some Children decided to capture one of their enemies and weaponize him with forbidden magic. Night King is born. Many First Men died. Then a peace was made. The Children and the First Men lived together. But the Night King would not stop. The Children and the First Men banded together to drive them far into the North, and erected the Wall to seal them off.
There's your backstory.
There's your backstory.
I don't remember any of that lol. Then again season 5 is the only season I've only watched once. I've watched season 6 and 7 episodes multiple times between airings, but 5 was one and done for me.
Thanks. That is clear and I agree with you.
I do think they will not clearly explain the religions, but I also feel like the Lord of Light and his adversary have some significance yet to be expanded upon perhaps. The Lord of Light has been a main driving force for many events troughout most seasons and I expect there to be a little more to the WW's revival than simply being force of evil.
Imperfected
Member
You take that back. Lord of Bones/Shit was a saint.
Dude doesn't even clarify to his followers whether he needs live sacrifices or not. I used to think he didn't, and Mel was interpreting this whole thing wrong. But then last episode Thoros straight up tells Gendry that she needed his blood. Put me in the category of people who think that the Lord of Light is dick who feels like the NK is cutting in on his business.
That's very helpful and I never got all that from the show.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
He does have that rotten blood inside of him, but you're right that's all that makes a Targ. That and making the dragon useful once Danny gets rekt by the NK.
"Ok guys where's Jon right now...oh at Castle Black? I'm hungry, should be a quiet night, so I'll be right back with some pizza."
Damn. Jon has had a stupid amount of 'close calls'. Forget the Lord of Light. LoL, God of Death, all the 7 and even the Drown God have been working to keep this dude alive. S
Atomic Odin
Member
Apologies if posted before
DeviantBoi
Member
I think there's more of Arya's story to tell -- otherwise her training will have been entirely pointless.
If anyone is gonna die, it's gonna be Sansa. I think Littlefinger is expecting Sansa to strike against Arya, but it's gonna backfire on him.
What exactly is Littlefinger's position now in the Vale? We haven't seen the little cousin for a while now. Is he acting as the kid's representative? Can he withdraw the Vale's troops?
Imperfected
Member
Lord Protector of the Vale (aka, regent), I think? He's basically a stand-in for actually running the kingdom until such a time as the proper Lord of the Vale is of sufficient age to (at least hypothetically) be able to do more than suck teats and throw things off cliffs.
Littlefinger has no purpose anymore but to try to turn the sisters against each other.
I'm expecting him to die next episode and to finally see him shocked/scared that something doesn't go as planned. He has been twirling his vilain mustache since season 1, time for him to die already.
Three, but the third promptly disappeared after Vyserion got killed.
If Arya dies, I stop watching.
Reading posts here, it would satisfy some viewers cause you know she supposedly hated Sansa when they were kids.
Anyway, putting aside my issues with the last two episodes, getting hyped for this last episode.
What I'd like to see, won't, and then will be upset about again:
- Jon and Co. stopping at Winterfell before going to KL
- Jon to set his bickering siblings straight - somehow some way LF gets killed or kicked out
- Jon at least mentioning to Danny that hey I was at the wall with your great uncle, he mentored me and was a cool dude
- Hound going back to KL and setting up his battle with his brother
- Dorne army showing up in support of Danny
- Euron dies - Theon finally does something and rescues Yara
- Jamie finally turns on Cersei after he finds out the baby was Euron's baby
- Jon and Dany marriage proposal
- Jon learns his lineage
- NK uses the dragon to break the wall
- Benjen is a WW commander now
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
When Martin talks about how the ending to the story is going to be "bittersweet" i dont think that there just going to be a couple deaths that people will be sad over. My feeling is that characters that people have grown to love will do things that people dont agree with. For example Sansa dying to the Night King is not bittersweet.. her murdering Jon and Dany after the war is won because they hold too much power could though.
Moff
Member
They can sail directly from Eastwatch to Kings Landing. Winterfell would be a huge detour.
What is time even?
Pankratous
Member
This is way too much to happen in one episode. Unless you just mean you hope some of these things happen? Haha. :')
Its the longest ep in GOT history. They transition from location to location within scenes so it is possible.
TheRagnCajun
Member
How has Danny just completely forgotten about her unsullied army? They're still under siege at Casterly Rock. She kind of needs that army to siege castles and hold castles, fight naval battles and basically do anything other than fight armies in open fields on the mainland.