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[Galang]

Rewatching LF's death is so good.

No, he won because the other guy let his guard down allowing Theon to get some good hits in and, as they were both tired, Theon won. I can't get my head around anyone having an issue understanding that scene, it's as basic a TV fight as most any other.

I thought the implication was more that Theon became used to dealing with pain after being tortured by Ramsey for so long. I don't think he would have tired the other guy out otherwise

 

[FiggyCal]

Hop over to the book discussion.

Spoiler

He doesn't have two sons, we are assuming that Aegon in the books isn't the true Aegon. There are book hints that suggest that.

That's pretty interesting. And thanks for putting it in spoilers.

White Walkers, a wight got through in season 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2TlSM-2SyI

I'd call that a plot hole. Why could that Wight cross the wall, but not Benjen or the WhiteWalkers?

Recall that Benjen said he couldn't cross the wall because the barrier prevents the undead from doing so...

 

[Skux]

Anyone disappointed about what a footnote The Wall falling was? The whole show/novel starts at The Wall, feels like it should have been given more weight. Hardhome gets an episode to itself.

I think the stakes are upended by the fact that the dead now have a fire-breathing zombie dragon. Yes the Wall stood for centuries, but it makes sense that all of that is undone and trivialised when the "power levels" have changed so much.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

My biggest disappointment this season is how by-the-numbers this WW threat has been. I said at episode 1 of this season "the wall coming down is the final episode, isn't it..."

These last 6 better be amazing.

 

[Plum]

I thought the implication was more that Theon became used to dealing with pain after being tortured by Ramsey for so long. I don't think he would have tired the other guy out otherwise

Yeah, that too. The guy was mainly talking about the way he won the fight in the end, the entire thing was to show that Theon isn't Reek anymore.

 

[DrBo42]

So what's the timeline on Dany's birth vs Jon's? She older by months? A year max?

 

[Ocarina_117]

So Dany and Jon wanted Cersei to agree to a truce which she basically ended up doing? They didn't ask for her troops just a pause in the fighting right?

Also what the fuck would the night king have done had he not had a dragon?

Theon's scene with Jon and Cersei with Tyrion were fantastic. Highlights of the episode definitely.

 

[JDB]

Your prior quotes suggest otherwise. Neither of them had any suggestion that you understood what was going on but thought it was predictable and "generic."





Even if I take your word on this and those quotes didn't exist, what would have been a "better" piece of writing? If Theon had died like a chump having had no satisfying character arc? If Theon had just stabbed the other guy in the back like a coward instead of learning something? I'm not too hot on the writing this season either, but some of these complaints are ridiculous. Something being a trope doesn't automatically make it bad unless you're Cinema Sins.

I was just pointing out how silly it was that a knee to the groin (which is still a knee to the groin with or without balls by the way!) was used as the turning point of the fight. I feel like it's just the umptieth time this season where the 'hero' character gets beaten down or almost dies but then comes up top anyway. I feel like there's very little tension when this happens over and over again.

 

[Kai Dracon]

LF's death was anticlimactic but served a deeper satisfaction of seeing Sansa mature to the point she is no longer anyone's tool. The ultimate twist is that LF taught her how to play the game like an expert, and that will make her a force for the rest of her life. A queen who is a master spider, backed up by a sister that is a Faceless Man assassin.

And to be honest, I can't help but feel they were foreshadowing it pretty hard that King's Landing will be surprise attacked by the Night's King. Dany's vision of the broken throne room full of snow. All these remarks about a million people waiting to be turned undead, etc. I would expect:

Spoiler

Cersei sends their existing forces to take back territory while waiting on the Golden Company to arrive. NK flies in and nukes the city, then raises it. Million dead march north.

And perhaps Jamie returns to take charge of the Golden Company once they arrive, with Cersei either dead or having fled.

 

[soundscream]

That's pretty interesting. And thanks for putting it in spoilers.



I'd call that a plot hole. Why could that Wight cross the wall, but not Benjen or the WhiteWalkers?

White walkers are different from wights. Benjin is closer to a walker than a wight. The magic was built to stop wight walkers. You cant call it a plot hole if the rule was set up in season 1.

 

[Emwitus]

Honestly, fuck people that sold their "predictions" and were just blatantly spoiling stuff.

Exactly

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I was just pointing out how silly it was that a knee to the groin (which is still a knee to the groin with or without balls by the way!) was used as the turning point of the fight. I feel like it's just the umptieth time this season where the 'hero' character gets beaten down or almost dies but then comes up top anyway. I feel like there's very little tension when this happens over and over again.

I agree. It was pretty dumb, but that's all right. Theon himself is dumb, so whatever moves him along so I can stop paying attention to him is fine with me.

 

[Ros8105]

Also, no way Dany and Jon are both making it to the final episode. One of them will die midseason I think. My money is on Dany dying.

 

[FiggyCal]

Theron's redemption scene was a major highlight of the season.

Edit:

White walkers are different from wights. Benjin is closer to a walker than a wight. The magic was built to stop wight walkers. You cant call it a plot hole if the rule was set up in season 1.

But we've scene before that at least the magic barrier to the three eyed raven's cave destroyed wights, presumably as well as White Walkers. But maybe the magic protecting the Wall is weaker than that protecting some cave? Idk. It doesn't sound likely.

 

[water_wendi]

That's pretty interesting. And thanks for putting it in spoilers.



I'd call that a plot hole. Why could that Wight cross the wall, but not Benjen or the WhiteWalkers?

Recall that Benjen said he couldn't cross the wall because the barrier prevents the undead from doing so...

Benjen says "While it stands, the dead cannot pass." Maybe its like how magic barriers are shown elsewhere in fiction.. if you break it anywhere the entire thing is useless.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Benjen says "While it stands, the dead cannot pass." Maybe its like how magic barriers are shown elsewhere in fiction.. if you break it anywhere the entire thing is useless.

Maybe we're overthinking and Benjen simply meant "Oi, mate. That's a big fookin' wall. Ain't no way white walkers climbin' over it."

 

[Kai Dracon]

So Dany and Jon wanted Cersei to agree to a truce which she basically ended up doing? They didn't ask for her troops just a pause in the fighting right?

They wanted Cersei to stand down and stop advancing - but now she intends to go take back territory Dany has conquered while Dany and Jon are in the North. Preventing Dany from having a base to return to, rest, and re-arm.

 

[FiggyCal]

Maybe we're overthinking and Benjen simply meant "Oi, mate. That's a big fookin' wall. Ain't no way white walkers climbin' over it."

It's possible.

 

[Lord Panda]

That's pretty interesting. And thanks for putting it in spoilers.



I'd call that a plot hole. Why could that Wight cross the wall, but not Benjen or the WhiteWalkers?

Recall that Benjen said he couldn't cross the wall because the barrier prevents the undead from doing so...

I thought it was because the Night King left his mark on Bran which broke the magic protection on the wall for some reason.

Also if the Night King didn't have the dragon, he would have just attacked the wall the old fashion way I guess

 

[soundscream]

Theron's redemption scene was a major highlight of the season.

Edit:

But we've scene before that at least the magic barrier to the three eyed raven's cave destroyed wights, presumably as well as White Walkers. But maybe the magic protecting the Wall is weaker than that protecting some cave? Idk. It doesn't sound likely.

Its obviously not the same magic, otherwise he wouldn't need a dragon, since Bran passed through the wall.

 

[Plum]

I was just pointing out how silly it was that a knee to the groin (which is still a knee to the groin with or without balls by the way!) was used as the turning point of the fight. I feel like it's just the umptieth time this season where the 'hero' character gets beaten down or almost dies but then comes up top anyway. I feel like there's very little tension when this happens over and over again.

As Galang said the entire scene was to show that Theon was used to being hurt, a mere knee to the groin wouldn't be enough to take him down especially since, you know, he has no balls.

Again, do you have any "solutions" to this "problem"? The fight as is fit perfectly with Theon's character and arc, just because characters have come back from certain defeat before in the show doesn't make the scene itself "dumb."

 

[Catdaddy]

I think the dragon just expedited them getting through the wall, I just figured with ole blue breath they would have overrun and went through the NW doors.

The whole Tyrion standing creepily by as Jon and Dani got it one was either, he loved her and knows he cant have her (ala Rocky Friendzone) so he was pouting, or had to do with the whole “keeping her in check from making poor decisions” he told Cercei and sees them being romantically involved leading her to a weaker position.

The Theon fight scene, was by far the worst moment in the episode and up there for the season.

So Jamie is going at it alone so he can join up and fight with Dani’s troops, or is he going to try and rally some troops? Or maybe Jamie has it in to long haired blondes and since Cercei cut her hair he’s has other options.

So if I saw right Tormund and co. was safe due to moving right past the part of the collapsed wall.

The reunions and first encounters were the best part – The Hound and Mountain, the Hound and Brienne, Tyrion and Bronn, Bronn and Squire Big Penis, Tyrion and Cercei, Breinne and Jamie, and over course “Ms. Late to the Party and check out my ride yo”.

Can’t believe the season is already over dammit and have to wait a year and half for the last 6 episodes. Have there been any indication when they are to start filiming?

 

[SealedSeven]

That's pretty interesting. And thanks for putting it in spoilers.



I'd call that a plot hole. Why could that Wight cross the wall, but not Benjen or the WhiteWalkers?

Recall that Benjen said he couldn't cross the wall because the barrier prevents the undead from doing so...

Technically the Wight turned beyond the wall didn't he? The real plot hole is that at this time, they turned after dying, yet later in the series you need to be turned by a White Walker.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

As Galang said the entire scene was to show that Theon was used to being hurt, a mere knee to the groin wouldn't be enough to take him down especially since, you know, he has no balls.

Again, do you have any "solutions" to this "problem"? The fight as is fit perfectly with Theon's character and arc, just because characters have come back from certain defeat before in the show doesn't make the scene itself "dumb."

Everything prior to the knee didn't show he was used to being hurt....and least not to the point of being immune like we're discussing. The knee over-and-over felt like something out of a comedy.

 

[FiggyCal]

Its obviously not the same magic, otherwise he wouldn't need a dragon, since Bran passed through the wall.

Well I agree that it's definitely a different type of magic - being that the two were likely made by different people and you may be right. It really doesn't bother me that much either way.

 

[Elandyll]

Great episode imo, and a lot of great scenes.
Tyrion/ Cercei and Jamie/ Cercei were way up there, but strangely it's the Jon/ Theon that really got me in the feels.
"You do not have to choose. You are a Greyjoy. And a Stark.".

Jon also did what Jon does, but contrarily to some here I do not think it was either badly written or "just stupid".
It was both in character, as Jon has been portrayed as this stubbornly "will do the right thing even if it kills me" lad (he even referenced Ned, which is often seen as a character flaw by fans).
I also didn't see it as stupid, because there was this talk following the meet when everybody calls him on not lying: He KNOWS the possible consequences, hence not stupid.
Brave, certainly.
Bold to the point of foolishness, sure.
Insane even, perhaps.

Personally I completely see someone who has very little he can still define himself on after what he has endured, and relies on "his last inch" (ref to V for Vendetta). His honor/ integrity, and also his refusal to build an alliance on lies.

Cercei did the opposite, of course.
Result? Her one and only love and brother (Jaime) gets fed up and abandons her.
Jon needs people like Arya and Sansa to do the daily grey stuff though, sure.
But as role model/ King? Jon could be the stuff of legends (for the record I do not expect him to survive the war, but he will probably be the one to take down the Night King).

As per Viserion being the instrument to breach the wall...
I think it reinforces the fact that what happened in ep6 was pre ordained and the NK had to know (whether by a prophecy or other shenanigan).
The way things are presented now, it was always going to happen because the prophecy talks about the fight vs the dead, and if they stayed behing the wall there would be no fight.

Last, Tyrion.
Honestly, with all that's been happening this season and the constant L's Dany kept taking under Tyrion's advices, and him telling her to let Jon& Co die up North...

When you add that he wanted to meet Cercei privately, and that the discussion was then cut short and finished off screen... It could all well point out to Tyrion being a traitor. In fact, when he was arguing with Cercei about him actually trying to save his family, I thought he was going to come clean "You know those anonymous Raven tips? They were from me.".
That last look could be jealousy, sure (though he has to have known they were attracted to each other by now), but it could also mean he knows they will be stronger allies than ever before, and less likely to follow his advice/ split.

Until Bran and Sam break the news that is (but then again, if they marry, it will be moot anyway, unless they disagree on policies of course).

 

[Plum]

Everything prior to the knee didn't show he was used to being hurt....and least not to the point of being immune like we're discussing. The knee over-and-over felt like something out of a comedy.

How about the fact that he kept getting up over and over? The show literally had the other guy saying "if you get up again, I'll kill you," and, whaddya know, Theon gets up again despite being beaten and bloodied. Should Theon have not reacted to any punches like he were the T-1000?

And, yes, that moment was supposed to be a bit comedic. The entire plot point about Theon losing his privates has been tinged with dark comedy ever since Ramsay waved that damn sausage around. That doesn't explain why it's a bad scene.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

So, the more I think about it, the more I hate Cersei's character. She blames her children's deaths on Tyrion. What the fuck? Her and Tywin trying him for a murder that Tywin knew he didn't commit, and the mountain killing Oberyn, led to her daughter's death. Cersei blowing away her son's wife and the sept led to his suicide. Are we supposed to forget that she played a huge role in their deaths? Or is Cersei's whole character at this point simply that she is batshit insane and not making sense?

How about the fact that he kept getting up over and over? The show literally had the other guy saying "if you get up again, I'll kill you," and, whaddya know, Theon gets up again despite being beaten and bloodied. Should Theon have not reacted to any punches like he were the T-1000?

And, yes, that moment was supposed to be a bit comedic. That doesn't explain why it's a bad scene.

That is the important piece...he gets knocked down, and gets back up. He is still getting hurt. Then suddenly Kneefest 2000 kicks in, and he is immune. It was silly.

 

[VAD]

Theon was great. I found LF's defeat a bit too easy, how did he not, in his paranoia, see that Sansa would fuck him over eventually?
Good for Jaime for quitting Cersei. Sam and Bran, the exposition bros made me retroactively hate Robert for beginning a war because he was rejected by Lyanna. The montage with Dany and Aegon fucking felt awkward with all the incest...
The episode ended quite predictably with Zombie Haxxor Dragon melting the Wall. I just hope Tormund is ok.
Can't wait to see war elephants vs Zombie giants next year.

 

[Travo]

The Tyrion scene was just to cast doubt and add suspense for the viewer. Between that and not knowing what was said between him and Cersei is supposed to
make us doubt his loyalty.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

So, the more I think about it, the more I hate Cersei's character. She blames her children's deaths on Tyrion. What the fuck? Her and Tywin trying him for a murder that Tywin knew he didn't commit, and the mountain killing Oberyn, led to her daughter's death. Cersei blowing away her son's wife and the sept led to his suicide. Are we supposed to forget that she played a huge role in their deaths? Or is Cersei's whole character at this point simply that she is batshit insane and not making sense?

That is the important piece...he gets knocked down, and gets back up. He is still getting hurt. Then suddenly Kneefest 2000 kicks in, and he is immune. It was silly.

It makes sense for her character. She's progressively been getting to the point of mad queen/insanity with every child's death. It also makes sense that she blames others instead of herself, as many people with those shitty personalities often do in real life (just.. on a lesser scale).

Tyrion turning out to be a traitor would some heavy shit as others talk about though. :\

 

[Ocarina_117]

Overall I think this season slightly edges 5 if I were to rank them. 5 definitely had better highs (hardhome), inconsistent writing and bollocks pacing puts it below 6.

4 >3=1>>>>>>>>>2=6>>>7>5

Alfie Allen is wonderful and should definitely be used more next season. I wouldn't call his arc anything this seasons considering he's had 5 minutes screen time. Though his scene with Jon was wonderful, highlighting how both had the same upbringing and lessons but went completely different ways.

 

[Lights and Waves]

I just realized:

Jamie going to Winterfell means that Arya could kill him and take his face, meaning she could disguise herself as Jamie and kill Cersei, meaning she'd cross Cersei off her list AND fulfill the prophecy of him killing his sister.

 

[Plum]

That is the important piece...he gets knocked down, and gets back up. He is still getting hurt. Then suddenly Kneefest 2000 kicks in, and he is immune. It was silly.

He's not "suddenly immune", he's pumped up with adrenaline and, seeing as the other guy's distracted, had seen a way to fight back. The otherwise tired character getting some last-ditch strength to finish things is such a classic trope that I can't believe people are having difficulties with it.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

So how is Cersei's plan going work? There is no way that Danny will just assume she is sending her army North. Between her Dothraki and her dragons Danny has the best scouting abilities in Westeros (except for maybe Bran). There is no way she get's caught off-guard here.

 

[elrechazado]

Hop over to the book discussion.

Spoiler

He doesn't have two sons, we are assuming that Aegon in the books isn't the true Aegon. There are book hints that suggest that.

Umm, not so.

 

[OldRoutes]

I'm calling it ; only the first half of the next season will be spent dealing with the Army of the Dead, and the last half will be spent dealing with Cersei's war.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I just realized:

Jamie going to Winterfell means that Arya could kill him and take his face, meaning she could disguise herself as Jamie and kill Cersei, meaning she'd cross Cersei off her list AND fulfill the prophecy of him killing his sister.

There is no such prophecy in the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vme_LeeSsgU

 

[Elros]

Hop over to the book discussion.

Spoiler

He doesn't have two sons, we are assuming that Aegon in the books isn't the true Aegon. There are book hints that suggest that.

Spoiler

Then, during the fight against the Mountain, why Oberyn says about Elia, Rhaegar's first wife "you raped her, you killed her, you killed her children" ?

And somewhere during season 3, Thoros talked about the bodies of Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys.

Unless Thoros was drunk again when he saw two bodies, who knows ?

 

[Master Yoshi]

I just realized:

Jamie going to Winterfell means that Arya could kill him and take his face, meaning she could disguise herself as Jamie and kill Cersei, meaning she'd cross Cersei off her list AND fulfill the prophecy of him killing his sister.

This would be ridiculous. :/

Bran is going to warg into Jamie and make him fall from the same window.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Benjen says "While it stands, the dead cannot pass." Maybe its like how magic barriers are shown elsewhere in fiction.. if you break it anywhere the entire thing is useless.

So basically how a wall/fortification works anyway....

Are we sure the Wall is a magic barrier and not just a big regular wall they may have used magic to build? If it had active magic properties why make it so big?

 

[komplanen]

Anyone disappointed about what a footnote The Wall falling was? The whole show/novel starts at The Wall, feels like it should have been given more weight. Hardhome gets an episode to itself.

I loved the fact that there was a real show of power from a key character at a critical time in the series, but I would have made it a little more spectacular myself. Most likely I would have added a lot of people on the safe side to witness it. I would have wanted to see Dany and Jon and all the armies of the Seven Kingdoms be only a view distance away when it happened. I would have loved to see their faces. It would have been an amazing scene. Instead all we got was one more "Oops I'm not really dead, or am I?" character moment - one that just happened to Tormund last episde and now again...

 

[Plum]

Tormund and Berric are fuckin' dead. If they didn't fall off the wall when it collapsed they're stuck on it with who knows how much distance until the next functioning way to get down.

At least I hope so, them somehow being alive would be a bit bullshit next season.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

This would be ridiculous. :/

Bran is going to warg into Jamie and make him fall from the same window.

Bran is going to warg into Jaime's hand and push him out the window

 

[water_wendi]

So basically how a wall/fortification works anyway....

Are we sure the Wall is a magic barrier and not just a big regular wall they may have used magic to build? If it had active magic properties why make it so big?

During that same conversation between Benjen, Meera, and Bran.. Benjen explains the reason hes not going with them is because of the magic thats built into the wall.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

You guys talking books? Like, spoiler tagging will not make it alright.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I think the Tyrion under the stairs face was to show that he was hoping for more gratitude. He put his life on the line to see if he could make a truce with his Sister.

So Jon who said NO and ruined the "truce" is getting to shag while Tyrion thinks he fixed it and saved the world by united enemies. He will soon find out he has been played. He will then become a person of constant losing lol.

Will anything come of it? No because Jamie will show up alone at winterfell, without an army and Tyrion will then understand Cercie is not to be trusted, even with a baby bump. lol

This is why i love the game of thrones, everyone is a ninja lol

 

[demosthenes]

Tormund and Berric are fuckin' dead. If they didn't fall off the wall when it collapsed they're stuck on it with who knows how much distance until the next functioning way to get down.

At least I hope so, them somehow being alive would be a bit bullshit next season.

They ran towards the castle black side. They're not killing them off screen :lol. They'll figure out how to get down.

 

[Window]

There's no way that Berric is dead.

 

[Oberon]

They ran towards the castle black side. They're not killing them off screen :lol. They'll figure out how to get down.

Berric sets his sword on fire and slowly melts his way down