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[televator]

Lyanna dies shortly after giving birth to Jon but as Ned is there to rescue her. The exact timing hasn't been solidified, I don't think, but there would be no reason for Lyanna to fear that Robert would kill Jon if he hadn't already done it to other Targ children. Without Aegon1's death, Jon isn't an aire.

I think Lyanna knew Robbert all too well enough to know that he could not suffer the baby to live. It meant too much to Robbert. A betrayal of his betrothal to the woman he loved without question, a last fuck you from the man he killed at the Trident, and a threat to whomever claimed the throne.

No need to see dead kids to logically conclude this.

 

[E92 M3]

I wonder if Jon is immune to fire now

 

[Hydrus]

Anyone else notice Brent from Mastodon as one of the Whitwalkers at the end lol? I was like wtf is he doing there haha.

 

[Steejee]

Well then.

* They shouldn't have gone on their stupid suicide mission just to "convince Cersei". Cersei was always going to fuck them over regardless. There's no reason to convince crazy. She should of either been put in a position to submit to the cause or die on the spot. I guess the Night King is happy though, now that he gets to play with one of Daeny's dragons.

* Jamie should of learned by now that he's sister is completely crazy. He's slow, but even he realised that the Lannisters were on borrowed time.

* LF had a finger in teaching the girls how to manipulate others to have it your way. His demise is the product of his own actions. He has sunken so many houses, and he too was living on borrowed time. Can't say I'm sad to see him go, but he was a very cunning man.

The meeting with Cersei might have paid off in some other ways, though probably not for the loss of a Dragon (Night's King was getting by the wall one way or another, Dragon pet is more a problem for the first castles they reach) - a direct result of it was Jaime abandoning Cersei, the Generals that Jaime was planning with now know of both the threat in the North and will know of Cersei's bailing on the deal immediately. That info will spread. I would expect some Lords to quietly (or not so quietly) work against Cersei as a result.

 

[MushroomSamba]

That's what she said she wanted, but as Cersei said she lies to protect her family. She would have gone back on her promises the moment it suited her.

Storming out as a result of Jon saying he'd already sworn for Dany was simply part of the game.

Yeah, but I guess that's what's confusing me. If her original plan was to betray her word (as indicated by sending Euron out early), why decline the truce in the first place? Why not just stick with her approval up until the Jon part? What if Tyrion didn't come back to have a follow-up conversation and they all went back up to the North instead?

 

[Volimar]

What if Bran crossing is what allowed the magic in the wall to truly break? The Night King might have already had a long and slower plan to just bash through the gates and come through, but the Dragon helped do that faster. However, what if the Dragon wasn't able to truly do that without Bran's passing?

I don't think that's the case because if it was, HBO would have spoonfed us the mark scene in the "previously on" to make it clear. There's no indication that the mark would have worked on the wall and no indication that Bran even still had the mark when he passed the wall.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Fantastic episode. I especially enjoyed all the scenes with Cersei.

Although I will say this. This season, there sure were a lot of people whose predictions happened to come 100% true. This season also leaked in advance. I don't think this is a coincidence.

 

[airjoca]

I can't help but wonder if the conversation between Tyrion and Cersei was kept from us for plot reasons or because the writers couldn't write good enough dialogue that would make us believe that Cersei changed her mind.

 

[Nameless]

I thought it was fitting for Littlefinger to go out at the hands of Tully women. Plus that nice bit of irony with Arya unknowingly avenging her arch nemesis Joffrey's assassination.

 

[RDreamer]

Anyone else notice Brent from Mastodon as one of the Whitwalkers at the end lol? I was like wtf is he doing there haha.

They were in it back in 2015, too

 

[ComputerBlue]

What if Bran crossing is what allowed the magic in the wall to truly break? The Night King might have already had a long and slower plan to just bash through the gates and come through, but the Dragon helped do that faster. However, what if the Dragon wasn't able to truly do that without Bran's passing?

That magic might have been broken when the wight was brought in earlier in the series, it may have been marked, brought across the wall and broke the spell, it could have also been the wight they took last week.

Until we learn more, if we do, all we can do is speculate but there is no definitive answer.

 

[JWiLL]

I think my favorite part of this episode, and perhaps the entire series, was The Hound smiling when he heard Arya was alive.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

What kind of bugs me about the Sanda turn on LF is that it makes it seem as if she turned on him based on his lessons, which I agree helped, but it overshadows all the other shit she has gone through and learned from along the way. By the time she even got to LF, she should have been a matured, strong character who could see through his shit. She kind of did after he got her raped at Winterfell, but not enough to be reasonable for me. Something about her and that LF plot just...disappoints me. Seasons of buildup, and the payoff was meh. And now Sansa is done. Plot armor is gone. What is left for her to do.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Jesus, this finale was dull as fuck.
Also they killed my boy LittleFinger, after an absurdly dumb plan (from him).
It's fine though, the writers clearly didn't know what to do with him.
.

Dull? Are you sure you have been using that word correctly your entire life?

You had the meeting between all the main characters, Little Finger getting slashed, Jamie almost getting cut down and then leaving Cersei and the Night King tearing down the wall with a zombie dragon.

Unless you have no appreciation for tense moments I guess.

But that shit was not dull.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't get people saying LF was wasted. Dude orchestrated and was personally responsible for shaping damn near all the major events that happened between the Lannisters and Starks, and in Westeros in general, for that matter. His entire purpose was to fuck things up as much as possible, as it suited him, so he could take control of everything.

His love for and underestimation of Sansa was his undoing. He finally made a mistake, after SIX SEVEN YEARS of being a master manipulater on the show.

Justice was finally served for all he accomplished. And boy was that scene satisfying

 

[MMBosstones86]

Great episode.

One thing I would've liked was to see Bran's realization after the wall coming down. They showed him warg'ing into the crows, so he saw all the shit happen. A camera shot of him coming back to reality and something like "Fuck" would've been great.

Something to bring it back to the side of 'life'.

 

[Cornballer]

Reviews:
- Onion A|V Club (newbies)
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone Part 1
- Rolling Stone Part 2
- NY Times
- Washington Post
- Vox
- NY Mag
- Variety

Interviews:
- EW interview: Clarke & Harington
- EW interview: Aiden Gillen
- EW interview: D&D
- THR interview: D&D
- Making Game of Thrones: Maisie Williams
- Making Game of Thrones: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

Videos:
- Inside the Episode
- Season 7 Episode 7 Clip: Army of the Dead
- Cast Commentary on A Union of Fire and Ice
- Worlds Collide (Go behind the scenes to see the conference at the dragonpit from all sides.)
- Game Revealed: Season 7 Episode 1 (cast and crew debrief on the making of the Season 7 premiere of Game of Thrones)
- The Ringer's Talk the Thrones: Season Finale

 

[rocketskates]

Fantastic episode. I especially enjoyed all the scenes with Cersei.

Although I will say this. This season, there sure were a lot of people whose predictions happened to come 100% true. This season also leaked in advance. I don't think this is a coincidence.

Or maybe people have brains.

 

[Recreat3]

Anyone else notice Brent from Mastodon as one of the Whitwalkers at the end lol? I was like wtf is he doing there haha.

Haha i thought it was him. I said it looked like him to my housemate. Thats kinda cool. Is that like his 3rd appearance now?

 

[someday]

So how is Cersei's plan going work? There is no way that Danny will just assume she is sending her army North. Between her Dothraki and her dragons Danny has the best scouting abilities in Westeros (except for maybe Bran). There is no way she get's caught off-guard here.

Once Dany's group is up north, there's not really any turning back for them. Cersei is gambling on them winning the fight against the dead but also taking huge losses. That means fewer Dothraki and Unsullied for her to deal with later, and maybe fewer dragons as well.

 

[Netherscourge]

I guess whatever is left of the Umbers is about to become part of the Night King's army.

The closest city to Eastwatch south of the wall is Last Hearth, seat of the Umbers.

I'm guessing the Night King will pick up some new "recruits" there before heading west to Winterfell.

 

[TimeEffect]

I don't get people saying LF was wasted. Dude orchestrated and was personally responsible for shaping damn near all the major events that happened between the Lannisters and Starks, and in Westeros in general, for that matter. His entire purpose was to fuck things up as much as possible, as it suited him, so he could take control of everything.

His love for and underestimation of Sansa was his undoing. He finally made a mistake, after SIX SEVEN YEARS of being a master manipulater on the show.

Justice was finally served for all he accomplished. And boy was that scene satisfying

I get his death, but for a long time, I think we expected this master manipulator to be at a grand stage rather than a dingy castle in the North where he was essentially powerless.

I like that Arya slit his throat as he still tried to worm his way out, but I wonder if it would have been cooler to have him beheaded, since that is both the North tradition, and since it mirrors Ned's death

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Littlefinger was out of his element in the North just as Ned was in the South.
Out of anyone I thought Littlefinger won't make it out alive before the season started, he was a dead man.

They came at him like a pack of wolves, it was a great scene.

 

[rokkerkory]

The last episode redeemed the entire season for me. It was great.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I think a grand death was befitting for LF, but I can't help but think how much better a swift out-of-nowhere death would have been for him.

 

[MushroomSamba]

Fantastic episode. I especially enjoyed all the scenes with Cersei.

Although I will say this. This season, there sure were a lot of people whose predictions happened to come 100% true. This season also leaked in advance. I don't think this is a coincidence.

Out of curiosity, which predictions turned out to be on the money?

I purposely skip by posts that make brazen predictions without any reasoning behind it. Even if it isn't a spoiler covered up as a prediction, it's still kinda dumb to read random predictions without any basis.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Rewatching the episode, I'm pretty sure Tyrion has turned.

Probably feels guilt for the children, even though it's not his fault, but he's probably going to protect Cersei's last child.

After everything I've seen there is no way Tyrion would trust or side with Cersei ever again. I think Tyrion just feels conflicted, because he betrayed his family, Jamie, and deep down fears the leader he has chosen. He also feels a bit displaced because Danny won't listen to him anymore, about strategy, succession, the Tarlys, going North to save Jon. Jon has taken a position of influence with Danny now and Tyrion is not sure where he belongs.

I don't see how Cersei's plan is going to work though. There is no way she can promise to send her army north, not do it, and expect Danny's scouts not to notice.

 

[Heshinsi]

I don't think that's the case because if it was, HBO would have spoonfed us the mark scene in the "previously on" to make it clear. There's no indication that the mark would have worked on the wall and no indication that Bran even still had the mark when he passed the wall.

For more than a year, I was panicking about Bran's brand, and I was 100% confident Cersei would be taken care of. It seems like the former amounted to nothing, and I'm actually quite glad Cersei is still kicking around. With 6 episodes left, it means that any stupid shit that goes on between Jon/Dany/friends, is going to be minor, and not as major as it would have been had there only been the Night King left as the major threat.

Here's my new Hail Mary prediction for next season. With Jaime abondoning Cersei, I think it's now more than ever likely, that Cersei in desperation does some Crastor type shit to team up with the Night King.

 

[Macka]

Thoughts:

• I don't necessarily have an issue with the Night King using the dragon to take down the wall, but it begs the question...how were they getting through without it? I've seen people suggest that the Night King can see glimpses of the future and was basically waiting until Dany would bring the dragons, but in that case it means that arguably the most important moment in the entire story comes as a result of the most idiotic plan ever devised. That really lessens its impact imo.
  
  
• The idiotic plan in question reached its logical conclusion in this episode. So, Jon and his group went on a near guaranteed suicide mission to capture a wight for the sole purpose of using it to forge a truce with Cersei. Tyrion was the one who devised this plan. The same Tyrion who knows Cersei better than anyone. How could he possibly believe she would genuinely be willing to stand down? Well, low and behold the entire plan was a waste of time because Cersei doesn't give a shit. They lost a dragon for what? (because the writers needed a way for the Night King to bring down the Wall, that's what).
  
  
• Even if you work backwards from the position that Sansa and Arya were playing Littlefinger, it still doesn't really make much sense. Were they pretending when they were having conversations in empty rooms with nobody there to overhear? If yes...why even bother? Why not just kill Littlefinger and be done with it? And if they weren't pretending, then it's still stupid as fuck that they could have ever been at odds with each other, because that requires Arya to genuinely have believed what she was saying about the letter Sansa was coerced to write, etc. Put simply, the entire Winterfell story was forced and uninteresting drama created just to give them something to do this season. It was bad from start to finish.
  
  
• Littlefinger was made into a joke. I mean, I guess that started in S5 when he gave Sansa to the Boltons, but I digress. This is meant to be the most cunning man in the entire story. When Sansa blindsides him this episode and puts him on trial instead of Arya, he doesn't really do a great job of defending himself. Most of what Sansa says is completely unprovable unless everyone believes in a self-professed magic boy. It's just a really lackluster way for him to go imo. I wanted him to genuinely lose, but it doesn't feel that way at all. None of his treasons came to light in an interesting way. Hell, most of it happened off-screen.
  
  
• The final reveal that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen VII felt very clunky to me. It could have been an epic moment, and instead it's flashbacks and a monotone voice narrating over a sex scene. Blergh.
  
  
• We had several character reunions, but were any of them actually good? Tyrion says hello to Pod, and acts like he's reuniting with Bronn for the first time despite them having met already a few episodes ago off-screen when he had him fetch Jaime. Bronn and Pod head off to a tavern, so we don't see anything of note there. Brienne and Jaime share all of like two words. The Hound promises to end The Mountain, but I've never understood why anyone would care for Cleganebowl when one of the brothers is essentially dead already. Theon and Jon's talk didn't do much for me. Tyrion and Cersei's scene was well acted, but it's still rooted in this foundation that Tyrion would believe she'd lay down her arms, so eh.
  
  
• I like Jaime finally leaving Cersei, but it's a case of too little too late at this point tbh. Still a nice scene of him leaving King's Landing as it starts to snow, though. That was the high point of the episode for me.

 

[Surfinn]

I get his death, but for a long time, I think we expected this master manipulator to be at a grand stage rather than a dingy castle in the North where he was essentially powerless.

I like that Arya slit his throat as he still tried to worm his way out, but I wonder if it would have been cooler to have him beheaded, since that is both the North tradition, and since it mirrors Ned's death

But I thought that was a fitting end for him. Finally powerless, killed by the blade that was meant to murder Bran.

 

[Volimar]

Hey you know what, don't post those leaks here.

Reviews:
- Onion A|V Club (newbies)
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone Part 1
- Rolling Stone Part 2
- NY Times
- Washington Post
- Vox
- NY Mag
- Variety

Interviews:
- EW interview: Clarke & Harington
- EW interview: Aiden Gillen
- EW interview: D&D
- THR interview: D&D

Videos:
- Inside the Episode
- Season 7 Episode 7 Clip: Army of the Dead
- Cast Commentary on A Union of Fire and Ice
- Worlds Collide (Go behind the scenes to see the conference at the dragonpit from all sides.)
- Game Revealed: Season 7 Episode 1 (cast and crew debrief on the making of the Season 7 premiere of Game of Thrones)
- The Ringer's Talk the Thrones: Season Finale

That cast commentary sheds a bit of light on Tyrion lurking

Also just want to say hats off to you Cornballer for your efforts with the OT, and many thanks to the mods for the work they've put in this season in the OT.

 

[RoninChaos]

If the writers had followed through and made

Spoiler

Cersei kill Jaime

, that would've been genuinely shocking, in the way GoT used to be. It would've advanced the plot and changed our perception of

Spoiler

Cersei

into someone who had become completely unhinged, capable of anything.

As much as I like

Spoiler

Jaime

now, having him killed for refusing to obey

Spoiler

his sister's

orders would've been a genuinely tragic but redemptive end to his character. Very few characters actually died this season,

Spoiler

Baelish

being the most prominent.

Kind of feel like she was completely unhinged when she enabled the Westeros version of Isis, then blew up the Sept of Balor, then blamed Tyrion for everything etc. I don't think we need another thing showing us that she's crazy or unhinged. We've known that for a long time.

Hey you know what, don't post those leaks here.









That cast commentary sheds a bit of light on Tyrion lurking

Also just want to say hats off to you Cornballer for your efforts with the OT, and many thanks to the mods for the work they've put in this season in the OT.

Which part?

 

[Elandyll]

Well then.

* They shouldn't have gone on their stupid suicide mission just to "convince Cersei". Cersei was always going to fuck them over regardless. There's no reason to convince crazy. She should of either been put in a position to submit to the cause or die on the spot. I guess the Night King is happy though, now that he gets to play with one of Daeny's dragons.

* Jamie should of learned by now that his sister is completely crazy. He's slow, but even he realised that the Lannisters were on borrowed time.

* LF had a finger in teaching the girls how to manipulate others to have it your way. His demise is the product of his own actions. He has sunken so many houses, and he too was living on borrowed time. Can't say I'm sad to see him go, but he was a very cunning man.

I think the whole Dragon thing was pre ordained, or there would be no end game.
Heck, I think the NK was in on some prophecy or something. Makes the whole ep6 work a lot better from that pov.

Their little KL trip also drove a wedge between Jaime and Circei.
If Jaime can convince Bronn and a part of the Lannister army to follow him North, that's a win in my book.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

For more than a year, I was panicking about Bran's brand, and I was 100% confident Cersei would be taken care of. It seems like the former amounted to nothing, and I'm actually quite glad Cersei is still kicking around. With 6 episodes left, it means that any stupid shit that goes on between Jon/Dany/friends, is going to be minor, and not as major as it would have been had there only been the Night King left as the major threat.

Here's my new Hail Mary prediction for next season. With Jaime abondoning Cersei, I think it's now more than ever highly likely, that's Cersei in desperation does some Crastor type shit to team up with the Night King.

How would that come about though? Wouldn't she have to go up North?

 

[TimeEffect]

For more than a year, I was panicking about Bran's brand, and I was 100% confident Cersei would be taken care of. It seems like the former amounted to nothing, and I'm actually quite glad Cersei is still kicking around. With 6 episodes left, it means that any stupid shit that goes on between Jon/Dany/friends, is going to be minor, and not as major as it would have been had there only been the Night King left as the major threat.

Here's my new Hail Mary prediction for next season. With Jaime abondoning Cersei, I think it's now more than ever highly likely, that's Cersei in desperation does some Crastor type shit to team up with the Night King.

They seem to say the Night King doesn't negotiate, but he's intelligent. Still, he doesn't gain anything from Cersei.

that meet up makes no sense, really. Maybe Cersei goes berserk after Night King burns down King's Landing, but then she won't really have anything left and I don't know why the Night King would go all the way down to KIng's Landing first anyway.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Out of curiosity, which predictions turned out to be on the money?

I purposely skip by posts that make brazen predictions without any reasoning behind it. Even if it isn't a spoiler covered up as a prediction, it's still kinda dumb to read random predictions without any basis.

Episode 6 had someone say that Thoros would go down, Dany would come to rescue, and that Night King would take down a dragon and get an undead one. Now....those aren't crazy predictions, but the way the post phrased it all and had no misses was a little....suspicious. We won't go dragging anyone through mud here and posting names as Duckroll said, but that particular user was put on my ignore list. First person to ever go on there.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I think my favorite part of this episode, and perhaps the entire series, was The Hound smiling when he heard Arya was alive.

words cannot describe how salty i'll be if they don't meet again

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Out of curiosity, which predictions turned out to be on the money?

I purposely skip by posts that make brazen predictions without any reasoning behind it. Even if it isn't a spoiler covered up as a prediction, it's still kinda dumb to read random predictions without any basis.

I remember seeing a prediction about an ice dragon and then the ice dragon being used to destroy the wall. And this was before episode 6. A really good guess, or just reading the leaks? You decide!

 

[Heshinsi]

How would that come about though? Wouldn't she have to go up North?

I don't know. Maybe Qyburn learns of some dark ritual or something that the Night King can sense. He flies down to KL and him and Cersei sign some sort of pact.

They seem to say the Night King doesn't negotiate, but he's intelligent. Still, he doesn't gain anything from Cersei.

that meet up makes no sense, really. Maybe Cersei goes berserk after Night King burns down King's Landing, but then she won't really have anything left and I don't know why the Night King would go all the way down to KIng's Landing first anyway.

Well he does negotiate, we saw that with Crastor and his babies. Maybe the war isn't going as planned for either and then they Team up. One last fuck you from Cersei to the living.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Yeah, pretty sure Aegon number 1 and fam were killed at the very end after KL was taken. Which I think was after Aegon number 2's birth.

Yes, when Ned arrives at the Tower of Joy, the war is over. He just came back from King's Landing after the king is dead. Which mean, the sacking of King's Landing by Tywin and Gregor Clegane took place. All the children except Visyrs is dead. Dany was not born yet.

Aegon is still a weird name to give, especially if Rhaegar and Lyanna gave it together. His son Aegon would have still been alive.

 

[OrionX]

I like that Littlefinger died the same way Catelyn did. Taken completely by surprise in a room full of former allies, pleads with them, gets throat slit.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

How dumb/great would it be if Jon and Dany retreated south of King's Landing to force Cersei to fight the white walkers? Not like Cersei can stop her 2 dragons.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

I don't know. Maybe Qyburn learns of some dark ritual or something that the Night King can sense. He flies down to KL and him and Cersei sign some sort of pact.

Yeah, Qyburn could do something. He was really intrigued when he saw the wight, not scared at all.

 

[Heshinsi]

How dumb/great would it be if Jon and Dany retreated south of King's Landing to force Cersei to fight the white walkers? Not like Cersei can stop her 2 dragons.

How are you going to move over a million people all the way down to Dorne in winter conditions?

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Episode 6 had someone say that Thoros would go down, Dany would come to rescue, and that Night King would take down a dragon and get an undead one. Now....those aren't crazy predictions, but the way the post phrased it all and had no misses was a little....suspicious. We won't go dragging anyone through mud here and posting names as Duckroll said, but that particular user was put on my ignore list. First person to ever go on there.

Naah, give them the LF treatment. No mercy.

Sansa is still an idiot and there is no way she was in on the ride the whole time.

It was mostly Arya guiding her, while Bran was probably feeding her bits of information.

Without Arya and Bran you think any of this would have happened? Shit no, lol.

Sansa is blatantly smarter than Arya, and it's not close. Are some of yall even watching this show or what?

ded

Damnit, forgot.

4>6>3>1>2>7>5

--

Whoever suggested Jaime turning into the final hero who kills NK, I agree with the idea that that's what would make the dumbfuck "bring a wight to Cersei" worth it IMO. That and NK being a seer whose foreseen the event would make episode 6 a lot better than it was (since for me it's the written episode, not the worst episode in quality, but rather written and poorly directed in several parts).

 

[DukeLongfellow]

There was a scene with Dany in season 7 where the show opened with rain, and they were telling her how it rained like this the night she was born.

Ah, that's right. Cheers!

 

[Phrozenflame500]

How are you going to move over a million people all the way down to Dorne in winter conditions?

they borrow varys' teleporter

 

[Vincent Alexander]

How are you going to move over a million people all the way down to Dorne in winter conditions?

Is Dorne all that is south? The still have regular mainland to stay on, don't they?

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

At least 1 year before we see him again ( .__.)

He shall return!

 

[Frostt]

If i were Jamie i would put signs all the way from Kings Landing to Eastwatch and tell Night King to follow them