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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

F

FeD.nL

Member
Anyone else hoped we would a Westeros (Wall) version of this before the whole thing came down (just the horns doing three blows alongside every part of the wall that's manned)? Something uplifting before the whole thing comes crashing down and turns to despair.
 
A

Albino_Yeti

Member
FeD.nL said:
Anyone else hoped we would a Westeros (Wall) version of this before the whole thing came down (just the horns doing three blows alongside every part of the wall that's manned)? Something uplifting before the whole thing comes crashing down and turns to despair.
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I thought the exact same thing. When those horns at Eastwatch started blowing, I fully expected a sweeping shot along the wall of different horns blowing all the way until Castle Black.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Einchy said:
This was the question of how to take out Littlefinger without pissing off Robyn but Littlefinger confessed to killing his mother. Robyn will still back Sansa now that he knows Littlefinger was playing him all along.
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Not just his mother, but engineering the death of his father as well. If Sansa didn't kill him for that, the Vale certainty would have.

I'm still baffled that Cersei blamed Tyrion for Tommen's death.
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Her argument seems to be that if he hadn't killed their father, her father woudl have been able to out maneuver their enemies and save her children. It's redirected blame and sorry because she still can't deal with what happened.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
SurrenderDorothy said:
I'm still baffled that Cersei blamed Tyrion for Tommen's death.
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It's a leap, but there is logic behind it.

>Tyrion kills Tywin
>Because Tywin is gone, the Lannisters lose control
>Tommen is pretty much forced to marry Margaery
>Margaery manipulates Tommen
>Cersei loses further control until she manages to get things in control
>Blows up the Septon
>Tommen kills himself

Like..it makes sense that Point A led to point G in which Tommen killed himself.
 
S

SurrenderDorothy

Banned
I get it, I do.
It's just that she blew up everything that was relevant in his life and expected him to be fine with it, like she saved him.

Guess in Cersei's head it makes sense.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
SurrenderDorothy said:
I get it, I do.
It's just that she blew up everything that was relevant in his life and expected him to be fine with it, like she saved him.

Guess in Cersei's head it makes sense.
Click to expand...

Yeh, Cersei is a bit warped. She thought that Tommen would go back to being her coddled boy but you know

So instead of saying to herself 'Boy maybe I went too far' she blames it on Tyrion
 
G

Goodstyle

Member
LegendofLex said:
Doesn't Littlefinger have leverage in the form of Sansa's letter, which would tarnish her reputation among the other Northmen? Isn't that the entire pretext for their argument? Doesn't their "gotcha" moment with Littlefinger only work because the situation escalates to the point where he thinks he has them beat?



You believe this based on...what? Arya's long history of knowing Sansa will have her back? Arya having full confidence that Sansa's finally gonna do something about Littlefinger even though she's been keeping him around despite the fact he's been a treacherous worm the entire time?

Arya was never gonna openly do anything against Littlefinger until she knew that she had allies. She couldn't be sure that Sansa would be her ally without testing her.



fixed



I know she really is angry with Sansa.

What I don't believe is that she's angry enough to issue real threats, especially when those threats are never addressed between the two characters again even as the story arc closes, and even more especially when it was obvious by the end of the last episode that she has no intention of killing Sansa or taking her face even though she's feigning at the possibility.

Seems much more plausible to me that Arya is doing what Arya does as a faceless man and is putting on a mask for appearances, than that Arya was really threatening her sister with violence and then just lets the underlying grievances go.
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Sometimes, when I try to understand a character's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they're saying, doing what they do? Then I ask, "How well does that reason explain what they say, what they do".

Here are Arya's actions since she got back to Winterfell in relation to this discussion:

- Immediately suspects Sansa of plotting against Jon, BEFORE any of the spy bullshit with Littlefinger.
- Follows LF around, takes a note from his room, and then confronts Sansa about its contents.
- She accuses Sansa of treason, she basically blackmails her with the note (that's in HER possession, not Littlefinger's).
- She later says she could kill her and get away with it. Literally kill her, take her face, and BE her.

What purpose do you think these actions serve? My theory is that they serve to intimidate Sansa, to make sure she would never move against Jon like she suspected before LF even made a move. Look back at the actions I listed above. Don't you think they match up with my explanation?

You believe that it serves to hint at Sansa that LF is trying to drive them apart, that all of these actions are a way of helping Sansa. All they did was drive them apart.

Sansa figured it all out because of the game LF suggested, not Arya's intimidation tactics. You may say that her giving the knife was evidence, but it proves nothing. You may say that it was all a hint, but the only reason we KNOW Sansa figured it out was because of LF's own game. Sansa didn't say a word about Arya's psychotic game, the only thing that accomplished was scaring Sansa.

So even if you were right (which you aren't) Arya's tactics were useless in swaying Sansa at all, but Sansa's own deduction on LF's plot was what saved the day.

You say it makes no sense for Arya to be apologetic in the end after all of this, but I say that it humbled her. It made her trust her sister more instead of angrily distrusting her when all of this really started, because between the two of them it was only Sansa who saw through LF's schemes.

I can't argue this forever, so I'll just leave these 2 theories out there. Yours and mine. I don't know about anyone else, but my version of events sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than a version where Arya seeks to help Sansa by implying several times that she's a traitor and that she is prepared to kill her.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Jest Chillin said:
Rhaegar had an aire named Aegon that was dead before Jon was born. Aegon is a Targaryan family name.
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First of all, how do we know the other Aegon was dead before Jon was born? And second of all, so what? If he had a child that died why would he give another of his children the same name? It's still fucking stupid.
Jest Chillin said:
This isn't difficult to parse.
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It's not difficult to parse at all. But it's difficult to accept. I'm calling it a flaw.
Jest Chillin said:
Rhaegar dead, Rhaegar's other children dead, Lyanna literally dying minutes after Jon's birth... She gives him a full Targ family name to signify his birthright.
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Yah exactly it's a Targaryen name so I've got no doubt in my mind that Rhaegar was the one who chose the name why would Lyanna choose the same name as her husband's other chuld it's stupid. Him having the last name Targaryen signifies his birthright.

Jest Chillin said:
As for fans filling in the blanks... That doesn't matter because we're not talking about anything further than how "dumb" or whatever it is that Jon's name is Aegon. And the reality is that it isn't all that dumb in Westeros, it's just annoying to viewers who find it confusing.
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Well, I'm over here talking about how dumb it is. It's not confusing, it's fucking dumb. Jon should've been named Jaehaerys.

Seductivpancakes said:
Aegon is also the name of the first Targ king. People name their kids after great people all the time. No different here.
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Yes, and that's why Rhaegar named his first son Aegon...he should have given Lyanna a different name for his second son.
sangreal said:
She was directly responsible for both Tommen and Myrcellas deaths. In fact the latter was due to her blaming Tyrion for everything wrong in her life !
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Eh, if I were Tyrion, I'd feel more guilt for the death of Myrcella. They brushed that over in the show in episode 2 and that's it. But Tommen? That's all Cersei.
Vincent Alexander said:
Yeah. This was the moment I decided Cersei is just about my least favorite character in fiction. Are we supposed to think she is batshit crazy? Stupid? Narrow-minded? She not only got Tommen killed, but she helped get her daughter killed as well. If Oberyn didn't go out fighting the Mountain, which wouldn't have happened if she didn't falsely accuse Tyrion, then her daughter would be alive.

I mean...if she is supposed to be annoyingly stubborn and dumb like a real person, then I guess she is a great character
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This is logical but since Cersei cannot be reasoned with, I don't think she can be blamed with Oberyn's death. Oberyn got Oberyn killed for drinking and being cocky during the fight. Myrcella's death is partially on Tyrion's hands, but not directly. Tommen though is all Cersei
 
C

Cjdamon042

Member
nubbe said:
giphy.gif
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Incest aside, this is one hot AF couple. Ooft.

Amazing finale, really enjoyed it. Theon’s beach scene was a bit pants but other than that I thought it was great. Now the long road until season 8...

:(
 
K

kiguel182

Member
That was a good final episode.

The talks between them were cool. The backstabbing of Cersei and Jaime leaving her felt good and Little Finger getting his due!

I’m curious what they do from here. The whole Jon Snow being the heir of the throne is weird since well, there’s no proof. I think Danny might kill him after she gets pregnant or something.

Anyway, not sure how boring all the war stuff will be if it takes too long. Hopefully it’s quick and then we can have Cersei vs everyone.

Edit: The beach scene was the part I thought was dumb.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Jest Chillin said:
The Knights of the Vale don't want to be led by Robyn, though they're honor bound to do so. However since the war is on and the last order they got was to support Sansa, Robyn won't come into play unless the Knights go to him to inform him. Which they can avoid doing until after the wars are settled.
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I'm assuming that since Robyn still isn't old enough to lead them that Royce assumes the title of Lord Protector of the Vale now, which is probably better for everyone involved. He seems to keep his head further from his ass than the average Game of Thrones character.
 
C

CaviarMeths

Member
DopeyFish said:
ah ha! it took me a while but I finally found the waif hint for the episode

Arya killed LF with the dagger in her right hand... she's left handed! (waif is right handed)

:>

actually it's the second, the first one was where she stated she was the executioner, and sansa passed the sentence. stark way is to kill those you sentence yourself as referenced in the execution scene in the pilot
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The neat thing about fan theories is that they conveniently ignore all contradicting evidence.

Arya fights left-handed against Brienne. :p She even flips the dagger to her left hand when she loses her sword. She only kills Baelish with her right hand because the dagger is strapped to her left hip, as it is her off-hand weapon.

Also, Ned Stark never taught his daughters about executions and such. As explained by Jon, he never even cursed in front of them. In S01E01, Bran is brought to witness an execution and learn about Stark law, not Sansa or Arya.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
CaviarMeths said:
The neat thing about fan theories is that they conveniently ignore all contradicting evidence.

Arya fights left-handed against Brienne. :p

Also, Ned Stark never taught his daughters about executions and such. As explained by Jon, he never even cursed in front of them. In S01E01, Bran is brought to witness an execution and learn about Stark law, not Sansa or Arya.
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Except when ned asks bran if he knows why he did it, bran said "our ways are the old ways"

It's something they would have learned in their lessons with the maester

That's like 4 major things Arya has either forgot or remembered incorrectly. Over the course of a show, that's fine. But that's in 6 episodes. I shouldn't have a mountain of evidence for this theory that somehow keeps growing.
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
xevis said:
I never liked the zombies or dragons angle or any of the magic nonsense. Now the show is nothing but this stuff. Also, it feels like all the interesting characters are long gone or rewritten into worse versions of themselves. Ugh. I don't know why I keep watching.
Click to expand...

In a way, it's a little bit sad that all of these interesting characters and conflicts are being rushed or pushed aside in favour of ice zombies. Not that I mind the Night King stuff, but it's not as interesting as the political game of chess we've had for 65+ episodes.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
The dialogue between Jamie and Bronn right at the start was hilarious.

I was so relieved when Sansa turned to LF during the trial. I was in disbelief at how easily she seemed to be playing into his hands when they were talking earlier. She had some great lines during the trial, son of a bitch even got on his knees.

They gave NK a dragon to obtain prove for Cersei and she's just gonna stab them in the back as expected.
Now Dany is going to lose at least one more when fighting against it.

Can't wait until it's revealed that Dany and Snow are aunt and nephew. So many implications.

Triggerhappytel said:
In a way, it's a little bit sad that all of these interesting characters and conflicts are being rushed or pushed aside in favour of ice zombies. Not that I mind the Night King stuff, but it's not as interesting as the political game of chess we've had for 65+ episodes.
Click to expand...

Well, like you said we've had it for 65 episodes and considering that at the end of the day the confrontation with NK is one of the cornerstones of the whole plot having just the last 8 episodes dedicated to it is hardly disproportionate, especially since those episodes will also wrap up everything else.
Like someone said on the previous page, the time for elaborate schemes is over. Cersei made her final gamble, let's see how it works out for her.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Ashhong said:
How come Bran new Jon wasn't a Stark, but didn't know about the secret wedding? How does his knowledge work?
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He bought all the seasons on blu-ray but hasn't watched them all yet. Sam was, like, "in episode 5 of season 843 they get married" and then Bran put in that disc to confirm it.
 
J

jelly

Member
I wonder if the Zombie Dragon could be turned back or on the side of Dany or Jon if the blood bond is stronger than magic or whatever the Night King does?
 
Z

zewone

Member
The Artisan said:
First of all, how do we know the other Aegon was dead before Jon was born? And second of all, so what? If he had a child that died why would he give another of his children the same name? It's still fucking stupid. It's not difficult to parse at all. But it's difficult to accept. I'm calling it a flaw. Yah exactly it's a Targaryen name so I've got no doubt in my mind that Rhaegar was the one who chose the name why would Lyanna choose the same name as her husband's other chuld it's stupid. Him having the last name Targaryen signifies his birthright.


Well, I'm over here talking about how dumb it is. It's not confusing, it's fucking dumb. Jon should've been named Jaehaerys.


Yes, and that's why Rhaegar named his first son Aegon...he should have given Lyanna a different name for his second son.

Eh, if I were Tyrion, I'd feel more guilt for the death of Myrcella. They brushed that over in the show in episode 2 and that's it. But Tommen? That's all Cersei.
This is logical but since Cersei cannot be reasoned with, I don't think she can be blamed with Oberyn's death. Oberyn got Oberyn killed for drinking and being cocky during the fight. Myrcella's death is partially on Tyrion's hands, but not directly. Tommen though is all Cersei
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There's an explanation for Jon's real name but it's not allowed discussion so I don't know how this works.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Ashhong said:
How come Bran new Jon wasn't a Stark, but didn't know about the secret wedding? How does his knowledge work?
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I imagine its like google search. The old 3 eye raven took him to see jons birth, so he had that info down. When he talked to sansa he probably saw what she went through. When Little Finger mentioned chaos to him, that triggered him with LFs talk of chaos and mentioned chaos is a ladder. When LF is on trial and Sansa mentions LF betrayed her father, he pulls up the detail of him holding a knife against Neds throat.

And likewise, when Sam mentions that Jon isnt a bastard and that rhaegar was married officially, this allows bran to pinpoint the marriage.

Basically it seems like you have to stoke Bran to fully see something. I would imagine its hard for him to pinpoint a specific memory since he has the mental banks of millions of things that have happened.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
jesu said:
Have you never used a bunsen burner?
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of course i have. but the blue flames are always hottest.
zewone said:
There's an explanation for Jon's real name but it's not allowed discussion so I don't know how this works.
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whatever explanation there is it's just stupid to name both of your son the same thing, whatever your reason is
zewone said:
White Walkers enhance magic. Dragons are magic. He's Super Sayian now.
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nah i don't think the dragon is stronger now that it's a zombie. it's just that dragons are magical creatures. and magic undoes the spell of what kept the wall up.
lastplayed said:
Blue on blue... literally.
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exactly. but it's hot blue on cold blue.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
I imagine its like google search. The old 3 eye raven took him to see jons birth, so he had that info down. When he talked to sansa he probably saw what she went through. When Little Finger mentioned chaos to him, that triggered him with LFs talk of chaos and mentioned chaos is a ladder. When LF is on trial and Sansa mentions LF betrayed her father, he pulls up the detail of him holding a knife against Neds throat.

And likewise, when Sam mentions that Jon isnt a bastard and that rhaegar was married officially, this allows bran to pinpoint the marriage.

Basically it seems like you have to stoke Bran to fully see something. I would imagine its hard for him to pinpoint a specific memory since he has the mental banks of millions of things that have happened.
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Agreed, the amount of data he has access to is near infinite, he can access anything but he surely hasn't seen everything.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The Artisan said:
the strange thing about this is that blue fire is hotter than yellow fire

so if the zombie misfired and attacked the zombie army it would do more damage than help the Nking
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The blue parts of a flame is hotter than the orange parts.

s c i e n c e
 
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