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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

jviggy43

Member
You know what I'd like to know, perhaps the laws in Westeros are different.

But why wasn't Sansa at the very least accused of being a co-conspirator to Lysa's death because she seen it happen and lied to the Jury about it, Ser Royce was one of those people she lied to, and he was among the peers during LF's trial last episode.

Are they just letting it slide? or are the writers just like, fuck it...

I think theyre saying fuck it, just like why Cersi isn't facing ANY consequences for murdering everyone last season despite the faith and Margery being huge in the public.
who to believe.. mmmmmmmmm


also fuck that shit, she corroborating facts with bran makes her dumb?

i mean, instead of seeing as, she is putting all the pieces at places so Littlefinger can sneak his way out. noooooooo, she is asking bran because she dumb.

Most of the stuff Sansa accuses Littlefinger of from the early seasons of the show absolutely required Bran. Knowing the identity of the true owner of the dagger required Bran as well because that was an unresolved loose thread from way back in season 1.

Of course, but really all she needed was pushing her aunt out the window (lol) and conspiring against her and arya, (the latter of which she should have knew but apparently shes stupid so she needed bran). The other stuff is just gravy.
 

Blader

Member
Most of the stuff Sansa accuses Littlefinger of from the early seasons of the show absolutely required Bran. Knowing the identity of the true owner of the dagger required Bran as well because that was an unresolved loose thread from way back in season 1.

But Bran offers that up on his own in the scene, doesn't he? It's not something Sansa accuses him of.
 

OrionX

Member
But why wasn't Sansa at the very least accused of being a co-conspirator to Lysa's death because she seen it happen and lied to the Jury about it, Ser Royce was one of those people she lied to, and he was among the peers during LF's trial last episode.

Are they just letting it slide? or are the writers just like, fuck it...

He was so happy to see Littlefinger die I guess he didn't notice lol. I suppose Sansa could always claim she was in shock and scared for her life, or that she thought he was defending her at first but later realized it was intentional after collecting all the evidence.
 

Elandyll

Banned
who to believe.. mmmmmmmmm


also fuck that shit, she corroborating facts with bran makes her dumb?

i mean, instead of seeing as, she is putting all the pieces at places so Littlefinger can sneak his way out. noooooooo, she is asking bran because she dumb.
?

She absolutely didn't know that LF was responsible behind the scene for betraying their father in KL. I also doubt very much she knew that he was behind the letter setting up the Stark/ Lannister conflict with the poisoning of Jon Arryn.

Last she had likely no idea about the dagger.
 

aBarreras

Member
i mean, as it is, you can came to the conclusion that sansa was always working with Bran into playing Littlefinger so he finally pays for what he has done.

but no, you people want Sansa to be dumb, and are making all you can to make her dumb.


just accept it, sansa played all of you, c'mon, you arent less of a man
 

Sephzilla

Member
Of course, but really all she needed was pushing her aunt out the window (lol) and conspiring against her and arya, (the latter of which she should have knew but apparently shes stupid so she needed bran). The other stuff is just gravy.

I kind of assumed they just wanted to pin Littlefinger to the wall with everything they had just to make sure he couldn't weasel his way out of anything and was unquestionably fucked beyond hope.

For a real world parallel - like what the Mueller investigation is likely preparing to do to Trump
 

jviggy43

Member
?

She absolutely didn't know that LF was responsible behind the scene for betraying their father in KL. I also doubt very much she knew that he was behind the letter setting up the Stark/ Lannister conflict with the poisoning of Jon Arryn.

Last she had likely no idea about the dagger.

Again, this is all just extra. She could have charged him with pushing her aunt out the window, which she knew and that should have been enough. Additionally, she should have been smart enough to realize she was getting played but apparently Brann had to be like "Hey this character youve spent the last 5 seasons with, watching him scheme and plot to keep you isolated from anyone and in his own clutches, is trying to drive a wedge between you and your sister, you should stop bickering with her".

i mean, as it is, you can came to the conclusion that sansa was always working with Bran into playing Littlefinger so he finally pays for what he has done.

but no, you people want Sansa to be dumb, and are making all you can to make her dumb.


just accept it, sansa played all of you, c'mon, you arent less of a man
Haha this is hilarious. The only person ignoring all context to arrive at a conclusion is you and the people trying to make it out that Sansa was setting all of this up when that article very clearly demonstrates thats not what was happening.
 

aBarreras

Member
Again, this is all just extra. She could have charged him with pushing her aunt out the window, which she knew and that should have been enough. Additionally, she should have been smart enough to realize she was getting played but apparently Brann had to be like "Hey this character youve spent the last 5 seasons with, watching him scheme and plot to keep you isolated from anyone and in his own clutches, is trying to drive a wedge between you and your sister, you should stop bickering with her".


Haha this is hilarious. The only person ignoring all context to arrive at a conclusion is you and the people trying to make it out that Sansa was setting all of this up when that article very clearly demonstrates thats not what was happening.

she played you, just accept it man :*
 

Elandyll

Banned
Again, this is all just extra. She could have charged him with pushing her aunt out the window, which she knew and that should have been enough. Additionally, she should have been smart enough to realize she was getting played but apparently Brann had to be like "Hey this character youve spent the last 5 seasons with, watching him scheme and plot to keep you isolated from anyone and in his own clutches, is trying to drive a wedge between you and your sister, you should stop bickering with her".
Yes, that was my original point.

If she was that smart, with what she already knew, she should have been able to turn the table on him with the help of Arya without the Nth confirmation that "yes, Baelish is a shithead that has conspired to eliminate people on his way to power".
 

Sephzilla

Member
Sansa, for the first time in the entire series, becomes a smart character only when she has access to a guy with Dr Manhattan level clairvoyance. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Sansa's intelligence.
 
"But surely my Lady, if what you said was true, and you would have witnessed it, why would you have said nothing for months, while being a guest of the Vale?
You would thus be guilty of hiding a murder and to withhold evidence of another.

Surely you want to think about what you are saying?"

I like how broken up the sentence is with commas. It reads just as he would say it, lol.

I think theyre saying fuck it, just like why Cersi isn't facing ANY consequences for murdering everyone last season despite the faith and Margery being huge in the public.

Weird this bit as well, not that anyone could do anything because at that point all of it put her in power. But, the people seemed to have no problem with it which is kind of messed up. The capital is massive, million people could easily overthrow Cersei.

I suppose Sansa could always claim she was in shock and scared for her life, or that she thought he was defending her at first but later realized it was intentional after collecting all the evidence.

Yeah I guess this is a fair assumption. At this point if they're cutting things, this is something they probably would have cut because it can just be assumed she was manipulated by him.
 

aBarreras

Member
Sansa, for the first time in the entire series, becomes a smart character only when she has access to a guy with Dr Manhattan level clairvoyance. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Sansa's intelligence.

Arya has access too and still got played by LF like a chump

if she is the only smart stark. no reason they were dying like freaking flies
 

jviggy43

Member
Arya has access too and still got played by LF like a chump

if she is the only smart stark. no reason they were dying like freaking flies

Arya being dumb *too* doesn't mean sansa also wasn't incredibly stupid. Both of those characters were absurdly naive and ignorant of everything happening.

Yes, that was my original point.

If she was that smart, with what she already knew, she should have been able to turn the table on him with the help of Arya without the Nth confirmation that "yes, Baelish is a shithead that has conspired to eliminate people on his way to power".
Ah, gotcha. Totally agree.
 
Fine, Arya is the only one who hasn't made several dumb choices over and over again. And Sansa did not play her, dunno what article you're reading but I'm assuming it's the one I pasted for you and nowhere in that bit does it even hint at that.
Arya walked in the middle of the street in Braavos when faceless men were onto her. She can also change into anyone which makes her an expert assassin, yet she chose to walk in LF's room with her face while he twirled his mustache from the sidelines. Also thought Sansa conspired with the Lannisters to get her dad killed. Could have killed Tywin via the faceless men with an easy kill, yet spends time sharing bed time stories with him instead as she grabs him a drink.

All of this sounds like some dumb shit if Sansa didn't actually know LF was playing her at all. However if she was suspicious of LF and Arya and then went to ask Bran to wikipedia fact check everything before moving on to capping the Wire's favroite governor, then that's another story. In other words, there should some clarity because can either make sense, or there's some character assassination by the double Ds. There's excuses for Arya getting played, not for Sansa who knows him and literally says "only a fool would trust Littlefinger".
 

Sephzilla

Member
If Sansa had her way she'd probably be warring with the other Northern houses right now or marching to Kings Landing to fight a Queen who isn't even a threat to her right now
 
Arya being dumb *too* doesn't mean sansa also wasn't incredibly stupid. Both of those characters were absurdly naive and ignorant of everything happening.

In this case though you can't blame them. PB was a master manipulator before they were even born and if it wasn't for Bran's google index, they'd have both been played by him. Still stupid, but it's LF, dude manipulated those high in power and started the war of the 5 kings. This was supposed to be nothing for him. Bran though.
 

OrionX

Member
If Sansa ends up winning the throne in the end there are gonna be a lot of pissed off people... almost makes me want it to happen even more. :p
 
Every piece of dialogue with her over the course of this season.
I don't recall her saying to go down to KL after Jon talked about the army of the dead. When did this happen?

I never once heard her say she wanted to war with the other houses or march to KL.
Apparently it happened in every single piece of dialogue she had this year. Maybe us fools might have been watching something else entirely. Couldn't be that he's full of shit.

If Sansa ends up winning the throne in the end there are gonna be a lot of pissed off people... almost makes me want it to happen even more. :p
If it happens and I don't post on gaf anymore for some reason. I'll make sure to come to the book and non book thread to rub it in, just because I know it will annoy them even more.
I'm an evil person. :S
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
nVNee5E.gif

Hah, great. All we need now is an edit of the scene with the Cornered theme and AA effects, like someone did with Better Call Saul s3e5
 

Surfinn

Member
The thing about Sansa is that she's intelligent and self-aware enough to recognize that she WAS pretty stupid and naive. She even recognizes that it took her a LONG time to learn how things worked. I thought that was the best moment in the series for her. Really brings her character full circle and when she was going off on LF I couldn't tell if it was Sansa or Cat.

It was like the wrath of her mother was pouring out of her mouth

Brilliantly written and executed.
 

jviggy43

Member
What is this based off of other than tales from your ass?

I never once heard her say she wanted to war with the other houses or march to KL.

I don't recall her saying to go down to KL after Jon talked about the army of the dead. When did this happen?


Apparently it happened in every single piece of dialogue she had this year. Maybe us fools might have been watching something else entirely. Couldn't be that he's full of shit.


If it happens and I don't post on gaf anymore for some reason. I'll make sure to come to the book and non book thread to rub it in, just because I know it will annoy them even more.
I'm an evil person. :S

[Citation needed]

Guys I was half joking. I just think that poster was pointing out how foolish she was all season with the bickering with everyone over pointless shit.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Actually the real dumbest character of the season is probably Littlefinger, simply because he should have high tailed it out of Winterfell the moment Bran said "chaos is a ladder" because that should have been the telltale giveaway that the jig was up.
What is this based off of other than tales from your ass?

Did you miss the first couple episodes of the season? At the start of the season she wants Jon to take over the homes of the people who betrayed the Starks instead of forgiving children for the sins of their fathers and was also super focused on Cersei and her toothless threats from down south. Jon basically spent the first two episodes of the season talking some goddamn sense into her. The stuff Sansa wanted to do would have driven Winterfell into battles it couldn't afford to be in.
 

BumRush

Member
The thing about Sansa is that she's intelligent and self-aware enough to recognize that she WAS pretty stupid and naive. She even recognizes that it took her a LONG time to learn how things worked. I thought that was the best moment in the series for her. Really brings her character full circle and when she was going off on LF I couldn't tell if it was Sansa or Cat.

It was like the wrath of her mother was pouring out of her mouth

Brilliantly written and executed.

Agreed. Loved that awareness from her.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The fact that we cant come to the conclusion whether Sansa and Arya played LF or not shows how poor the storytelling has been all season.

I dont mind being misled every now and then but they played up the Arya/Sansa conflict for pretty half the already short season. None of it made sense seeing as how we knew Bran was there all season to clear up any confusions.

I think they were playing Little Finger from the start. From the moment Bran gives Arya the dagger. That is when they all plotted to kill LF, but the showrunners wanted a twist ending for their final episode and decided to waste everyone's time with this bullshit conflict b/w two sisters.

Lastly, i dont know if i can blame them. Bran being this omnipresent entity pretty much ruins every surprise in the show. he knows what everyone's been doing. there are no more secrets and no need to guess anyone's motivations. I bet the Chaos is a Ladder scene is supposed to be the major scene in the book where LF goes down. That should've been it. There is no need to wait for Arya. No need to hold a trial. That's it. Bran knows what he did and he goes down immediately. That's how i would suspect George R.R Martin wouldve written that scene.
 
They weren't playing him.

There's a deleted scene from the latest episode where Sansa has to outright ask Bran to tell her if LF has been scheming against them.

It's deleted for a reason.

If it's not in the show, it's not cannon, and it can't be used for any basis of an argument. Things are cut and edited all the time to change events or meaning behind them
 

Sephzilla

Member
I don't think Sansa was playing LF simply because throughout the series Sansa hasn't been portrayed as a particularly intelligent character capable of scheming to that level.
 
Sansa, for the first time in the entire series, becomes a smart character only when she has access to a guy with Dr Manhattan level clairvoyance. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Sansa's intelligence.

I mean, it's a much better sign of her intelligence that she'd confirm details with Bran to pin Littlefinger and justify a death sentence (as opposed to say exile as a way to reward his assistance to in the Battle of The Bastards) to all of the Northern Lords than it would be if she didn't even bother to confirm her suspicions with somebody who can seemingly see any detail from the past or present he's interested in. Aside from how creepy his comments were in their initial meeting, how silly would she have to be to not confirm the extent of his treachery when it's seemingly as simple as a conversation?

It's deleted for a reason.

If it's not in the show, it's not cannon, and it can't be used for any basis of an argument. Things are cut and edited all the time to change events or meaning behind them

Completely agreed. Use it as a basis to speculate by all means, but ultimately it's deleted. It didn't happen. If you want to draw meaning or support the argument the show is what you use as supporting evidence. One can just as easily rebuke that it was deleted precisely because they didn't want people to think Sansa hadn't put it together herself.
 
It's deleted for a reason.

If it's not in the show, it's not cannon, and it can't be used for any basis of an argument. Things are cut and edited all the time to change events or meaning behind them

We use deleted scenes, behind the scenes episodes and cast speculations all the time, this should be no different.

Ultimately though, they still had to go to Bran otherwise, why was he there? Because he was a witness and they needed him.

If you're not going to use deleted scenes as source then you can't use you're imagination either because there is no proof at all that Arya and Sansa conspired to take down LF from the beginning.
 
Actually the real dumbest character of the season is probably Littlefinger, simply because he should have high tailed it out of Winterfell the moment Bran said "chaos is a ladder" because that should have been the telltale giveaway that the jig was up.


Did you miss the first couple episodes of the season? At the start of the season she wants Jon to take over the homes of the people who betrayed the Starks instead of forgiving children for the sins of their fathers and was also super focused on Cersei and her toothless threats from down south. Jon basically spent the first two episodes of the season talking some goddamn sense into her. The stuff Sansa wanted to do would have driven Winterfell into battles it couldn't afford to be in.

Leaving after he heard chaos is ladder is pretty hilarious, and those nice moments when the viewer knows so much more than the character and wonders why they don't act like it. LF sent Sansa to Ramsay, him abandoning her would have ended his plan of uniting the Vale and the North to go against Cersei during her weakest moment (which is when he would have struck). I also find it hilarious that LF is just supposed to know that a weirdo on a wheelchair quoting him once somehow tells him that he is a tree wizard that can see anything in the present or past. Obviously...

She should be focused on Cersei? Cersei is a crazy bitch and you know if Dragonlady didn't fly to Dragonstone until s8, they would be an instant target. Sansa doesn't know what allegiance Dany has, who she likes, and who she might go for. Pretending Cersei doesn't exist is dumb as fuck, even with the long night coming from the true North. I also agree with Sansa, that those kids shouldn't keep every single thing their parents had when they betrayed the Starks. There should be some repercussions. Not go Robb Stark and off their heads, but they should lose something for their family's betrayal. Them being completely absolved is kinda stupid, which fits in line with almost every major decision Jon has lol.. Just like his plan to run south and hope the Boltons wouldn't go after them, it's naive to think the same with Cersei.

Again what battles would she have driven them into other than Cersei? And without knowing the wildcard dragon user, they should have been prepared. She didn't fully understand the dead like every other character in the entire series that hasn't seen them. All you're doing is playing Bran Stark by seeing everything and then wondering why x character acts like .. they haven't seen and know every character in the series like the manhattan cripple.

I don't think Sansa was playing LF simply because throughout the series Sansa hasn't been portrayed as a particularly intelligent character capable of scheming to that level.
Since season 4:
- calmed down her aunt from potentially killing her by lying to her.. until she got caught making out with LF
- manipulated the Vale high lords to save LF's life
- manipulated Ramsay into giving her info about Jon snu being lord commander
- kept pushing the bastard/family line which played a part in him killing his father
- convinced (and manipulated) Jon to force his hand and fight to get Winterfell, also telling him to ensure the Wildlings fight for him for it
- LF whose life she saved then helped her out (for his benefits)
- has LF murdered

I legit have to question if some of yall are even watching this show when I read shit like this. No, she's not Varys or LF or at their level. But there is a clear upwards trajectory to her raising through political maneuvering. That's why if she didn't see LF manipulating and manhattan crip literally did everything for her, it would be character assassination. If she used him to reference and double check her work, then it's ok.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
So looks like there was a deleted scene between Bran and Sansa for the finale.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/08...right-on-deleted-scene-between-bran-and-sansa

It's stuff like this that S7 needed. Dont understand why D&D decided not to add little scenes like this and make the season a bit longer.

I guess they removed that because it would completely ruin the twist when we find out they're not getting played but are playing Littlefinger.

Though, I do agree we needed way more Bran scenes this season, it's a shame that we finally got him being able to do all of this whenever he wants and then he only uses his power once.
 
It sound like everyone is pretty disappointed and very negative. It may be that I mix up booth Threads but I feel like there is plenty negativity in regards of the final season

Personally I thought the finale was awesome as was the rest of the season :). I'm just bummed they are cutting down the nr of episodes and have to rush some storylines.
 
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