VenomousCoffee
Member
I've been rewatching this season this afternoon and it's reinforced my belief that Dany is a murderous tyrant who sometimes says liberal things so that people will like her.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
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I'd say she is a good person haunted by the inherited demons that plagued her father.
The Artisan
Member
i don't know which episode you're on but just remember that she'd be more of a murderous tyrant if Jon wasn't there. Jon was the one who told her not to go to King's Landing...and she probably would've done that anyways.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Why "murderous tyrant"?
metalslimer
Member
On the other hand she probably could have just burned the red keep down with cersei in it and won the war saving more people. If the scorpion doesn't work k8ngs landing has no defense against drogon and could be taken without much collateral damage
Talking shit on Cat made me think about the rest of the Starks and their histories with real bad decision-making. Littlefinger is so right: Starks got quick tempers and slow minds. Literally everyone in the family is affected by it lol. Theon and Jon got it transferred to them. I guess I can see why LF thinking that he can fuck around with Arya and Sansa too lol.
The Artisan
Member
i think she should have taken Dickon Tarly prisoner after burning Randyl.
The Artisan
Member
i agree with you there, the commoners of King's Landing are a bunch of scumbags (but Jon & Dany don't know that...Tyrion does though) so the world would probably be a better place without them anyways.
even the little orphan children, Qyburn corrupted them into little murderers.
edit: sorry for double post
Same, but only because I kind of liked him and wanted Randyl to die for being shitty to Sam.
Is Netflix still the only place that uses 4K DIs for TV shows?
I am surprised to read that Westworld was shot on film. That's pretty cool but I'm not sure I could tell the difference lol.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
I definitely agree with that. Dickon didn't deserve to burn.
I had no idea Westworld was shot on film either. Unless it's 16mm, though, I can no longer really tell the difference.
Ain't her fault that dummy wanted to get turned into BBQ.
Don't forget kidnapping Tyrion. That was act #1 to officially kick off the war between the Lannisters and the Starks. The first act that was publicly to have been known done by either houses. No one knew publicly that LF told Cat that Tyrion owened the dagger.
Hmm, that's yet another great house where all the males died and now is run by women. Pretty sure all the Frey ladies are also running the place.
These wars have not been kind to the dudes of Westeros.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
I agree that Dickon was dumb for that, but in all fairness his father was going to burn.
Say what you like about Randyll but that is his father.
Dany was in her right to execute them as they were traitors to House Tyrell, but Dickon Tarly should have been taken prisoner, few weeks in a cage and convincing may have helped him see that he was on the wrong side.
Plus I wanted Dickon to wield Heartsbane 😢
VenomousCoffee
Member
I'm calling her a murderous tyrant because over and over again she has demonstrated that her first impulse is to kill everyone. Killing soldiers is one thing, and people who give terrible orders. But look at the way she threatens Tyrion when his plans fail: "Maybe I should burn you because you're sabotaging our plans against your family." I exaggerate a tiny bit, but that's what she meant. That's a scary moment. And she gets the same look on her face when she sentences Randyl and Dickon.
Yes, she said she doesn't want to burn the citizens in KL. But at the first sign of trouble, her first impulse is to do exactly that.
I forgot: I'm calling her a tyrant because her entire claim to forcing Jon to bend to her is that her daddy was king. She can claim that the people of the south benefit from removing Cersei. Can't say that about Jon and the North.
Yes, she said she doesn't want to burn the citizens in KL. But at the first sign of trouble, her first impulse is to do exactly that.
I forgot: I'm calling her a tyrant because her entire claim to forcing Jon to bend to her is that her daddy was king. She can claim that the people of the south benefit from removing Cersei. Can't say that about Jon and the North.
I don't care if they're beheaded, hung, roasted by Drogon, etc. Both of them deserved to die for what they did to House Tyrell and their role in the sack of High Garden. Executing the Tarlys for treason wasn't the wrong move.
We can argue over the method of execution, but the act itself is lawful, and was no different than the execution of the Night's Watch mutineers for example. Hell they even got a choice, unlike everyone else ever executed for treason on this show.
^ so you make up lines of dialogue to reinforce your narrative? Gotcha.
Dany is neither a murderous tyrant nor a strictly good person.
She has a sense of entitlement due to her bloodline and dragons, and uses her great beauty and charisma to get others to follow her.
She believes that with all she's endured, the iron throne is her destiny. Just like Jon Snow felt like dying the bastard of Winterfell was his destiny.
They're both wrong.
Dany's story could never lead her toward ruling Westeros with a firm hand and a kind heart. The people trust neither. They are ruled by fear, both of the unknown and of her family's terrifying legacy.
Dany's only course is the full acceptance that she has only ever been given what she wants, not through merit or hard work, but through chance and the meddling of others. Her will is fierce, but it is mostly manifested when she snaps her fingers and what she wants happens.
It has only now started to occur to Dany that her dragons and armies are not weapons to conquer and rebuild Westeros, but only one tool out of many that could save humanity from oblivion.
She has always looked backward at those in need and used fiery words to free them from the yoke of persecution and death. Her final test is following Jon's example and sacrificing herself for the good of the realm.
She has a sense of entitlement due to her bloodline and dragons, and uses her great beauty and charisma to get others to follow her.
She believes that with all she's endured, the iron throne is her destiny. Just like Jon Snow felt like dying the bastard of Winterfell was his destiny.
They're both wrong.
Dany's story could never lead her toward ruling Westeros with a firm hand and a kind heart. The people trust neither. They are ruled by fear, both of the unknown and of her family's terrifying legacy.
Dany's only course is the full acceptance that she has only ever been given what she wants, not through merit or hard work, but through chance and the meddling of others. Her will is fierce, but it is mostly manifested when she snaps her fingers and what she wants happens.
It has only now started to occur to Dany that her dragons and armies are not weapons to conquer and rebuild Westeros, but only one tool out of many that could save humanity from oblivion.
She has always looked backward at those in need and used fiery words to free them from the yoke of persecution and death. Her final test is following Jon's example and sacrificing herself for the good of the realm.
She doesn't want to go straight into King's Landing because, like you said, she doesn't want to kill the citizens there who have no choice in this war. The Loot Train attack was her specifically attacking soldiers who are actively fighting against her, no one died there that wasn't innocent, so you can't really compare the two. Call her a Tyrant but she could've won this war months ago if she actually was more tyrannical and didn't have a heart but she didn't want to kill innocents and it has caused her a lot.
Even now, she could've flown Drogon into King's Landing and killed Cersei but she is trying to maybe form an alliance to help out Jon with the Night King.
Dany is bae.
I stand corrected. She's the worst. In terms of TV wifes, she's as bad/worse than Lori from Walking Dead lol.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yep. Tarlys were traitors, and they hung themselves, even when given the chance to live. What is funny is they thought it was honorable to not bend the knee. Great job preserving your honor you just tarnished, by turning on Tyrells, by not bending the knee.
-slow clap-
-slow clap-
VenomousCoffee
Member
So you don't understand how inference and tone work? Gotcha.
ComputerBlue
Member
Randy deserved to die, dude was a shitty person and a shitty father.
He should have bent the knee if only to save Dickons life, but he obviously didn't give a fuck about him either, just as he didn't Sam, or his loyalty to House Tyrell.
Dany did a good thing.
He should have bent the knee if only to save Dickons life, but he obviously didn't give a fuck about him either, just as he didn't Sam, or his loyalty to House Tyrell.
Dany did a good thing.
VenomousCoffee
Member
Her first idea after they hear about the loss of her allies is to burn the city down.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
I'm not disputing that they should have been punished as they were.
I just think that it would've been wiser to keep Dickon prisoner.
Tarlys
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah. I kept staring at Tully like "something is wrong here..." I had to say "Sam Tully" in my head to hear the proper name.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Poor Edmure..
Nothing of her tone indicated that she was threatening Tyrion with death. That's you making things up in your head. She is absolutely justified to think that Tyrion might be unintentionally trying to minimise harm to his family. Look at his plan. What could have been a fast and direct conquest of KL, has led to the loss of two allies, the stranding of the Unsullied, and the loss of countless civilians in High Garden.
RPGCrazied
Member
Is tonight the last one or next week?
VenomousCoffee
Member
You might go back and look at her face as she reads the lines. She is ready to kill him.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Next week.
I like this post. Sums up well why I've always thought she cannot and should not be queen from a narrative perspective.
The reason I've always disliked Dany can be boiled down into two main strands:
-She does everything out a sense of royal birthright yet pretends to hate royalty and nobility ('the wheel') and all it stands for. Which is it, Dany? She thinks it's hugely important to be the last Targaryen but didn't give a shit when her brother died. He was a monster, but are the Targs important or aren't they? She doesn't examine this sense of entitlement and superiority at all.
-She doesn't acknowledge how much her entire successes have been either chance or other people's work. Without Varys' meddling she probably doesn't live until 16. Without Jorah the spy falling in love with her she gets poisoned or killed multiple times in Essos. Without a random gift of dragon eggs and their random hatching through blood magic she just dies some foreign blond girl amongst the Dothraki, who would not have mourned her.
But it feels like she never acknowledges any of that.
Jon, on the other hand, is very, very aware of his position, what others have sacrificed for him, how much fortune he has had etc. He constantly ponders why he, specifically, should have been brought back to life rather than other great men. He's humble and brave.
It's got to be Jon in the end, for me.
"I'm just going to betray the house I've served for generations because I'm a giant racist."
"I'm just going to go ransack said house's keep, help kill everyone there and then steal their gold and resources."
"I'm just going to let my son and house die beside me because I'm a giant racist."
"FUCK WHY DID YOU KILL ME I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG #BOTHSIDES"
"I'm just going to go ransack said house's keep, help kill everyone there and then steal their gold and resources."
"I'm just going to let my son and house die beside me because I'm a giant racist."
"FUCK WHY DID YOU KILL ME I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG #BOTHSIDES"
*Dany is literally being stabbed to death*
Dany: Draca-
Gaf: Wow, chill out there "Mad Queen".
Gunslinger
Member
All the people calling dany an evil person has to realize that she is new at this. She is a rookie and acting like one.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Kill Tyrion? Lmao, she wasn't.
A Queen or King will have arguments with their Hand, it is what it is.
Tyrion's been failing this war and keeping Dany at bay, she was disappointed and assumed Tyrion is being soft because their enemies are his family.
She wasn't ready to kill Tyrion, come on now.
Racist? The Dothraki absolutely are, 100%, an invading army. It's racist to fight to defend your homeland against foreign invaders? Ones with a culture of brutal ransacking and rape?
The Red Keep is the palace Cersei has stayed in this entire seasons. It's like someone saying let me strike at Buckingham Palace, and you going, "shit she wants to burn down London!"
That excuse flies out the window when you realise that the Tarlys are bannermen of House Tyrell, who are allied to the Queen of the dothrakis. Meaning that their "homeland" was never in threat to be invaded. Yeah, Tarly was a racist. You don't recall what he thought of Gilly and the Widlings?
Did you forget how he treated Gilly for being a Wildling?
Vincent Alexander
Member
Cutting for new page.