Here's Why Jon Snow Didn't Pet Ghost On 'Game Of Thrones'
Director David Nutter and cast members reflect on a doggone unanswered Season 8 question.
What horseshit.
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Game of Thrones Season 8 |OT| A Song of Icy and Fiery Fandom
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
What horseshit.
RedVIper
Banned
The show is rushing, if you had this same plot be developed over 1 or 2 seasons it would work significantly better. As it stands people just don't buy that danny would kill thousands of innocents.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
i.e. because it doesn't make sense.
Kadayi
Banned
And their conclusion is as #TeamDanyNo1fan is that she should have stayed in Essos and never sailed to Westeros. How is that a meaningful suggestion versus an obstinate objection to the direction the story is taking? From the off GRRM outlined that the ending of ASOIAF would be bittersweet. If you're thinking Jon & Dany at the end sitting in a Tree versus one or the other with ashes in their mouth you've not been paying attention.
Fanfic is not critique
I'm fascinated at this narrative weave doing to rounds wherein the Night King dying by Arya's hands is naturally a subversion from whatever GRRM intends for the character.
I don't know. They've talked before at length about the cost of cast/wolf interactions. In large part, it's why the Dire Wolves have been rarely used throughout the show.
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Yoda
Member
Here's Why Jon Snow Didn't Pet Ghost On 'Game Of Thrones'
Director David Nutter and cast members reflect on a doggone unanswered Season 8 question.www.huffingtonpost.co.uk
What horseshit.
A good example of a time where "no-comment" would have been ideal.
ruvikx
Banned
You're looking at it from a Marvel/Disney/Star Wars stereotypical good versus evil viewpoint when in effect it has always been a morally gray story. Just because Dany did some good things (freeing slaves, helping defeat the white walkers), it doesn't mean her shittier messianic tyrant impulses (aka "bend the knee motherfuckers!!!") weren't going to cause problems. The only reason I believe the execution isn't as good as it could be is because the Dany & Jon on-screen relationship has zero chemistry. For that, the actors are to blame as much as the writers. But Jon as he's depicted in the TV show is never going to tolerate a senseless mass slaughter of civilians in King's Landing just because his girlfriend (& Aunt) wants her butt on the Iron Throne.
It's not about "winning" the Game of Thrones. It never was. It's about what's best for the little people. By the way, the characters mentioned in that link which claims mad queen Dany "doesn't make sense" weren't depicted as faultless heroes. Stannis was a psychopathic murderer, whilst Ned was an "honourable fool" who allowed his stupid wife to start a war. If people watched the show & hoped their favorite character (Daenerys, for example) would become a benign dictator of Westeros, they've missed the point. It's that simple.
KeepThemEyesOpen
Member
His name isn't Conan lol
His name isn't Gendry Rivers, either.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
The show hasn't sold me on Dany being the Mad Queen. If that's what they are going for in the last 2 episodes, they need to turn up to 100 really quick.
Most of the things she has done isn't as sinister as the other characters in the show, including what we consider the hero's of the show
Yeah she burned same Father and Brother, but to be fair they refused to lay down their arms against her. I doubt even Jon Snow or Ned Stark would allow their enemies to leave battle and rejoin the fight.
Sansa feed Ramsey to Dogs. Yeah he deserved it. But Dany hasn't imo done anything as cruel as that.
Even the one true King, Bobby B, was guilty of far worse shit than Dany.
Most of the things she has done isn't as sinister as the other characters in the show, including what we consider the hero's of the show
Yeah she burned same Father and Brother, but to be fair they refused to lay down their arms against her. I doubt even Jon Snow or Ned Stark would allow their enemies to leave battle and rejoin the fight.
Sansa feed Ramsey to Dogs. Yeah he deserved it. But Dany hasn't imo done anything as cruel as that.
Even the one true King, Bobby B, was guilty of far worse shit than Dany.
ruvikx
Banned
Intent & context matters. Daenerys believes it's her manifest destiny to rule as a dictator. That in & of itself is guaranteed to cause problems. The Tarly's were simply "guilty" of not bending the knee. She could have sent them to the wall (as Tyrion suggested) but nope, she made Drogon incinerate them. It was an important scene (as was that entire episode in which she surprise attacked a convoy entering a city). Sam's father was an asshole, but his brother? No. Hence Sam's grief this season when he learned what she'd done.
Meanwhile, Ramsay Bolton was a degenerate piece of shit who enjoyed torture & murder in a myriad of sick ways. Ergo Sansa unleashing the dogs on him is not comparable.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
No she couldn’t have sent them.
He said to her “you can’t because you are not my Queen”.
Sams brother choose to stand with his Father.
These are their decisions. If the show wanted it to be definitive, they should have wrote it differently.
KeepThemEyesOpen
Member
Ooh I think I missed something here
RedVIper
Banned
Well for one she's breaking tradition, beheading is an accepted punishment. Burning someone alive is not, even stannis got shit for burning mance. For us this might not mean much, but it would in a medieval setting.
You're also forgetting several scenes in mereen, she really likes to burn her problems away, and if it wasn't for her advisers she would burn a lot more people.
Edit: I agree that the show hasn't done a great job.
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Ooh I think I missed something here
This past ep, Gendry was called Gendry Rivers. His name is just Gendry, since he wasn't an acknowledged bastard, but if he was an acknowledged bastard his name would be Gendry Waters per his home region of King's Landing. More sloppy writing from D&D.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
I’m not forgetting it. Just saying that compared to her rivals/competition she is seen as the better person.
ruvikx
Banned
The show has already made countless efforts to show how all those who aspire power & divine rule are invariably shits, in some form or another. Dany attacked Westeros with a foreign army & a mission to become dictator. If people watched this show for 8 years & thought that was A-Okay, I don't know what to say anymore. Technically, Dany wasn't Tarly's queen - at all.
The only reasons Tyrion, Varys & others from Westeros went to her for help were based upon either a (misguided) belief she represented real change or a desperate need for help against the white walkers.
Jon is by far the better person. No question in my mind. He reluctantly accepted power & had zero ambition to become dictator - unlike Dany.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
So what shouldve Dany done with Sams father?
No one outside the North knows who Jon Snow is. And he is following Dany at this point.
I’m just saying that no one considered Bobby B the Mad King 2.0 because he was killing babies.
RedVIper
Banned
Musky_Cheese
Banned
She didn’t blow up half the City with wildfire
Besides we are talking about Vary’s and the people around Dany. Not the common folk
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strange headache
Banned
You know, I always regarded the Night King as an existential threat. He's like a force of nature that cares very little about the petty power squabbles of man, a natural catastrophe looming behind the horizon that draws no distinction between who sits on the iron throne. It's the reason why the Night King has no ulterior motivation, like an earthquake, a hurricane or tornado, there's no rhyme or reason behind his destruction, it just happens. As such, the White Walkers were always the bigger concern to me, at least compared to the usual political schemes and power plays of the show.
You just don't vanquish such an existential threat with a fancy ninja move, it's not something that can be easily beaten, it's something that can only be managed. As such, the Night King should have been the ultimate problem to face, not a deeply flawed and power hungry noble who's not much different than any other. Anything that would follow episode 3 can only feel like a tacked-on epilogue. It's the equivalent of a hero vanquishing his evil nemesis, only to him face a random street tug in the next season.
The worst aspect is that the victory over the Night King didn't feel earned. Yes, the main characters raised their power levels, Jon became a bad-ass fighter and Jamie turned from a golden Knight with a rusty heart to a rusty Knight with a golden heart. Arya turns into a superhuman assassin, Bran a mystical wizard, Daenerys a powerful ruler and Sansa a cunning politician. They all surpassed their masters, but their more important characters flaws still remain. Compared to that their newly acquired powers are mere maculature that merely serves our thirst for spectacle rather than meaning. Sure there were promising glimpses, such as Jon renouncing his kingly title in order to face a bigger concern and Arya recognizing the value of family after following the path of vengeance and death, but after the White Walkers were defeated, all of them became worse, rather than wiser, as they all fell prey to their most basic lustful appetites.
Daenerys is now madly driven by her anger and will probably slaughter thousands of innocent civilians to quench her thirst for power, becoming the very tyrant that she wanted to protect the world from in the first place. Jon is leaving behind what is dearest to him, his true friend Sam, his trusty wolf Ghost and his family, only to make himself another pawn in the battle for the iron throne. Arya buggers off with the Hound leaving her family behind once again. Sansa is using her new talents only to become another pawn in the game. Jamie reverts to his old incestuous self having apparently learnt nothing from his time with Brienne, well apart from a hot one night stand nobody wanted to see.
I always felt that GRRM's books never reveled in the Machiavellian scheming and violence, it was always a means to portray the futility of human war and monarchic power struggles. As such, I always thought the whole point of his story was to transcend the game of thrones. After all, what the hell does it matter who sits on the iron throne? It will just be another flawed being repeating the same mistakes as those who sat on the throne before them. Who wins the game of thrones is not important, but what the protagonists learned and how they have changed. GRRM isn't a fatalist, but as it stands the show's ultimate message seems to be that the game is all that matters, that people can't overcome their flaws, instead locking themselves in a perpetual loop of war, death and suffering.
This is not good story telling. Facing your ultimate flaw can only end in renouncing to play that nefarious power game. I never frikkin' cared about the throne, all that was important to me was how the characters dealt with their experiences. Now, all that's left is the throne as the remaining characters have seemingly learnt nothing from their past struggles and keep going down the path of senseless destruction. Instead we were being treated to 30 minutes of eating, drinking and fornicating, as if that's somehow the most important. F*ck that noise, as if after all that's happened I would care about who is putting his dick into whom. There's so much more important stuff to tackle that is being shoved aside or rushed for tits and ass.
All the writers seem to care about is letting us guess who will be sitting on the throne and "subverting my expectations". Well, subverting my expectations is all nice and dandy, but not if it doesn't make a lick of sense and comes at the expense of more important themes.
I somehow find it hard to believe that GRRM approved of this series of events and I sincerely doubt that's how he wanted to end the show. Yeah I know he's gotten lazy, but considering where the show is heading for its grand finale, I would have preferred for the show to be put on ice until he finished more books. The reason why ASOIAF and the first couple of seasons of GoT were so great is because they broke with typical Hollywood conventions. Season 8 is a return to the same old Hollywood'esque story-telling that trades substance for spectacle and meaning for broad appeal.
You just don't vanquish such an existential threat with a fancy ninja move, it's not something that can be easily beaten, it's something that can only be managed. As such, the Night King should have been the ultimate problem to face, not a deeply flawed and power hungry noble who's not much different than any other. Anything that would follow episode 3 can only feel like a tacked-on epilogue. It's the equivalent of a hero vanquishing his evil nemesis, only to him face a random street tug in the next season.
The worst aspect is that the victory over the Night King didn't feel earned. Yes, the main characters raised their power levels, Jon became a bad-ass fighter and Jamie turned from a golden Knight with a rusty heart to a rusty Knight with a golden heart. Arya turns into a superhuman assassin, Bran a mystical wizard, Daenerys a powerful ruler and Sansa a cunning politician. They all surpassed their masters, but their more important characters flaws still remain. Compared to that their newly acquired powers are mere maculature that merely serves our thirst for spectacle rather than meaning. Sure there were promising glimpses, such as Jon renouncing his kingly title in order to face a bigger concern and Arya recognizing the value of family after following the path of vengeance and death, but after the White Walkers were defeated, all of them became worse, rather than wiser, as they all fell prey to their most basic lustful appetites.
Daenerys is now madly driven by her anger and will probably slaughter thousands of innocent civilians to quench her thirst for power, becoming the very tyrant that she wanted to protect the world from in the first place. Jon is leaving behind what is dearest to him, his true friend Sam, his trusty wolf Ghost and his family, only to make himself another pawn in the battle for the iron throne. Arya buggers off with the Hound leaving her family behind once again. Sansa is using her new talents only to become another pawn in the game. Jamie reverts to his old incestuous self having apparently learnt nothing from his time with Brienne, well apart from a hot one night stand nobody wanted to see.
I always felt that GRRM's books never reveled in the Machiavellian scheming and violence, it was always a means to portray the futility of human war and monarchic power struggles. As such, I always thought the whole point of his story was to transcend the game of thrones. After all, what the hell does it matter who sits on the iron throne? It will just be another flawed being repeating the same mistakes as those who sat on the throne before them. Who wins the game of thrones is not important, but what the protagonists learned and how they have changed. GRRM isn't a fatalist, but as it stands the show's ultimate message seems to be that the game is all that matters, that people can't overcome their flaws, instead locking themselves in a perpetual loop of war, death and suffering.
This is not good story telling. Facing your ultimate flaw can only end in renouncing to play that nefarious power game. I never frikkin' cared about the throne, all that was important to me was how the characters dealt with their experiences. Now, all that's left is the throne as the remaining characters have seemingly learnt nothing from their past struggles and keep going down the path of senseless destruction. Instead we were being treated to 30 minutes of eating, drinking and fornicating, as if that's somehow the most important. F*ck that noise, as if after all that's happened I would care about who is putting his dick into whom. There's so much more important stuff to tackle that is being shoved aside or rushed for tits and ass.
All the writers seem to care about is letting us guess who will be sitting on the throne and "subverting my expectations". Well, subverting my expectations is all nice and dandy, but not if it doesn't make a lick of sense and comes at the expense of more important themes.
I somehow find it hard to believe that GRRM approved of this series of events and I sincerely doubt that's how he wanted to end the show. Yeah I know he's gotten lazy, but considering where the show is heading for its grand finale, I would have preferred for the show to be put on ice until he finished more books. The reason why ASOIAF and the first couple of seasons of GoT were so great is because they broke with typical Hollywood conventions. Season 8 is a return to the same old Hollywood'esque story-telling that trades substance for spectacle and meaning for broad appeal.
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MetalAlien
Banned
Hot molten lava thing one brings.
Just shorten all that to .."it would have cost a fortune so we didn't do it!"Here's Why Jon Snow Didn't Pet Ghost On 'Game Of Thrones'
Director David Nutter and cast members reflect on a doggone unanswered Season 8 question.
What horseshit.
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Kittehkraken
Member
Here's Why Jon Snow Didn't Pet Ghost On 'Game Of Thrones'
Director David Nutter and cast members reflect on a doggone unanswered Season 8 question.
What horseshit.
So one of the biggest TV shows on the planet couldn't fork out the cash for a brief direwolf scene.
wow.
Jon Neu
Banned
bitbydeath
Member
Here's Why Jon Snow Didn't Pet Ghost On 'Game Of Thrones'
Director David Nutter and cast members reflect on a doggone unanswered Season 8 question.
What horseshit.
Why is it CG?
Being the runt of the litter Ghost looked just like a regular dog.
Nymeria and Rob’s wolves were the large ones.
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Kadayi
Banned
Jon giving Ghost a big hug and for it to not look like dogshit given it would be a real-life person interacting with CGI Fur etc would be super complicated, and then means both time and money. Like it or not the show has a budget and with two enormous battles, this season some things likely had to go by the wayside.
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Tesseract
Banned
meh, they wasted too much on the stupid dragon ride in episode 1
limitation SHOULD breed creativity, a talented director would have found a way
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Once GRRM finishes the books, and maybe 10 years in the future after that, he should oversee an animated adaptation. Voice actors are easier to replace, and tend to stick around more often too. Not to mention being able to depict all the crazy shit in full glory.
Kadayi
Banned
David Nutter | Director, Producer, Editor
Known for: Game of Thrones, The Pacific, Space: Above and Beyond
www.imdb.com
He's only won the two Emmys...
Maybe chill with some GOT Westeros Map drawing ASMR
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Jon Neu
Banned
David Nutter | Director, Producer, Editor
Known for: Game of Thrones, The Pacific, Space: Above and Beyond
He's only won the two Emmys...
Tesseract
Banned
David Nutter | Director, Producer, Editor
Known for: Game of Thrones, The Pacific, Space: Above and Beyond
He's only won the two Emmys...
Maybe chill with some GOT Westeros Map drawing ASMR
eh, emmys
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SirKicksalot
Member
Nutter's a fantastic team player, his interviews are non-stop praise for everything (and probably part of the reason why he had such a great career). He and everyone else involved knows it didn't play out "much more powerfully". Everyone's aware of all flaws. You're always aware of them when working. You just hope the pacing of storytelling fixes everything. Usually it does make you ignore all the bullshit.
The Starbucks cup is 100% trolling btw. The shot went through a dozen people and they all knew it was there.
The Starbucks cup is 100% trolling btw. The shot went through a dozen people and they all knew it was there.
Jon Neu
Banned
I don't know about that, they literally look as delusional to think so.
It's the Rian Johnson effect, they are so full of themselves they think they are actually secret geniuses trolling people with their "smart takes and subversions".
HBO doesn't make a habit of spending frivolously.
Achelexus
Member
FIFTEEN MILLION YOU ESS DOLLARS PER EPISODE!
Jon Neu
Banned
Kittehkraken
Member
Some cosplayers could have made a more convincing goodbye with one trip to the craft store.
MetalAlien
Banned
With all these throwbacks to season 1 it almost feels like in the vacuum of good ideas they are just using the old good ideas over again hoping to pass them off as member-berries.
Fbh
Member
To be fair, thinking about it maybe they aren't going for "mad" Dany as much as "just as bad as the rest" Dany. For large parts of the show, most of the characters close to her have acted as if they saw her as this almost fairy tale like queen: inexperienced, but kind and noble and looking to make the world a better place for everyone. And now they are just slowly starting to see that she is the same as most people who have been fighting for the throne throughout the show.
Or at least I hope that's how they sell it
Yeah... Tyrion has gone from one of my favourite characters to one that is hard to care about.
I'm fine with him getting things wrong or making mistakes every now and then since it keeps things realistic and interesting, but it's like he has lost all of the cleverness from earlier seasons. They haven't really given him much of personal story anymore, he obviously isn't a fighter and for the past 2 seasons he is portrayed as neither particularly smart nor helpful in any of the big event. He is sort of just....there.
Hopefully he gets a moment to shine in what's left.
Or at least I hope that's how they sell it
Yeah... Tyrion has gone from one of my favourite characters to one that is hard to care about.
I'm fine with him getting things wrong or making mistakes every now and then since it keeps things realistic and interesting, but it's like he has lost all of the cleverness from earlier seasons. They haven't really given him much of personal story anymore, he obviously isn't a fighter and for the past 2 seasons he is portrayed as neither particularly smart nor helpful in any of the big event. He is sort of just....there.
Hopefully he gets a moment to shine in what's left.
Yoda
Member
She could've simply imprisoned them, it's a false choice to say it to the wall or execution.
MetalAlien
Banned
Hey as far as i'm concerned Dani is now the audience ready to Thanos this shit, burn the whole thing to the ground and start over.
Kadayi
Banned
Absolutely, I can see it now....
Tarly has it coming. His son was just an idiot.
Kittehkraken
Member
You can't tell me watching Jon Snow pet Jessica Nigri wouldn't have been better than what we got.
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autoduelist
Member
KeepThemEyesOpen
Member
Oh shit that's bad lmao
MetalAlien
Banned
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well, that sure is heartening.
NintendosBooger
Member
Tyrion, Varys, and Jon are the 3 of her "advisers" who've urged restraint and have begged her not to attack Kings Landing head-on. Tyrion has made one mistake after another; Varys is seemingly plotting against her; and Jon is the only legitimate threat to her claim to the Iron Throne. If Tyrion underestimates Cersei again or Varys's plot is discovered or Jon marshals more support, it might be enough to taint their counsel in her eyes and to compel her to act on her own intuition. Jorah is dead. Missandei is dead. Who else is there that can check her impulses? She feels trapped and alone, that's about the measure of it.
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