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Game of Thrones Season 8 |OT| A Song of Icy and Fiery Fandom

Barnabot

Member
I still think that this Aemon guy was one of wisest man Westeros ever had.

65iBTwU.png


He could be a ruler of Westeros. Do you know what did instead? Not played the iron throne game. He decided to have a life on his own terms instead. I thought his wisdom should've reflected onto someone else but instead it seems it died with him. No one learned anything from that.
 
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prag16

Banned
You know, I always regarded the Night King as an existential threat. He's like a force of nature that cares very little about the petty power squabbles of man, a natural catastrophe looming behind the horizon that draws no distinction between who sits on the iron throne. It's the reason why the Night King has no ulterior motivation, like an earthquake, a hurricane or tornado, there's no rhyme or reason behind his destruction, it just happens. As such, the White Walkers were always the bigger concern to me, at least compared to the usual political schemes and power plays of the show.

You just don't vanquish such an existential threat with a fancy ninja move, it's not something that can be easily beaten, it's something that can only be managed. As such, the Night King should have been the ultimate problem to face, not a deeply flawed and power hungry noble who's not much different than any other. Anything that would follow episode 3 can only feel like a tacked-on epilogue. It's the equivalent of a hero vanquishing his evil nemesis, only to him face a random street tug in the next season.

The worst aspect is that the victory over the Night King didn't feel earned. Yes, the main characters raised their power levels, Jon became a bad-ass fighter and Jamie turned from a golden Knight with a rusty heart to a rusty Knight with a golden heart. Arya turns into a superhuman assassin, Bran a mystical wizard, Daenerys a powerful ruler and Sansa a cunning politician. They all surpassed their masters, but their more important characters flaws still remain. Compared to that their newly acquired powers are mere maculature that merely serves our thirst for spectacle rather than meaning. Sure there were promising glimpses, such as Jon renouncing his kingly title in order to face a bigger concern and Arya recognizing the value of family after following the path of vengeance and death, but after the White Walkers were defeated, all of them became worse, rather than wiser, as they all fell prey to their most basic lustful appetites.

Daenerys is now madly driven by her anger and will probably slaughter thousands of innocent civilians to quench her thirst for power, becoming the very tyrant that she wanted to protect the world from in the first place. Jon is leaving behind what is dearest to him, his true friend Sam, his trusty wolf Ghost and his family, only to make himself another pawn in the battle for the iron throne. Arya buggers off with the Hound leaving her family behind once again. Sansa is using her new talents only to become another pawn in the game. Jamie reverts to his old incestuous self having apparently learnt nothing from his time with Brienne, well apart from a hot one night stand nobody wanted to see.

I always felt that GRRM's books never reveled in the Machiavellian scheming and violence, it was always a means to portray the futility of human war and monarchic power struggles. As such, I always thought the whole point of his story was to transcend the game of thrones. After all, what the hell does it matter who sits on the iron throne? It will just be another flawed being repeating the same mistakes as those who sat on the throne before them. Who wins the game of thrones is not important, but what the protagonists learned and how they have changed. GRRM isn't a fatalist, but as it stands the show's ultimate message seems to be that the game is all that matters, that people can't overcome their flaws, instead locking themselves in a perpetual loop of war, death and suffering.

This is not good story telling. Facing your ultimate flaw can only end in renouncing to play that nefarious power game. I never frikkin' cared about the throne, all that was important to me was how the characters dealt with their experiences. Now, all that's left is the throne as the remaining characters have seemingly learnt nothing from their past struggles and keep going down the path of senseless destruction. Instead we were being treated to 30 minutes of eating, drinking and fornicating, as if that's somehow the most important. F*ck that noise, as if after all that's happened I would care about who is putting his dick into whom. There's so much more important stuff to tackle that is being shoved aside or rushed for tits and ass.

All the writers seem to care about is letting us guess who will be sitting on the throne and "subverting my expectations". Well, subverting my expectations is all nice and dandy, but not if it doesn't make a lick of sense and comes at the expense of more important themes.

I somehow find it hard to believe that GRRM approved of this series of events and I sincerely doubt that's how he wanted to end the show. Yeah I know he's gotten lazy, but considering where the show is heading for its grand finale, I would have preferred for the show to be put on ice until he finished more books. The reason why ASOIAF and the first couple of seasons of GoT were so great is because they broke with typical Hollywood conventions. Season 8 is a return to the same old Hollywood'esque story-telling that trades substance for spectacle and meaning for broad appeal.
This is a really good breakdown of what a clusterfuck season 8 has been. Though I will point out one disagreement I have. I'm surprised so many people's takeaway from the Jamie/Brienne thing was that Jamie is seriously going running back into Cersei's arms, tail between his legs. I think he said whatever he needed to, to make sure Brienne wouldn't follow him, and actually intends to kill Cersei. But you may end up being right, we'll see. (Not that I even care that much anymore; this season started off okay, but episode 3 was a disaster, and I doubt anything can be done to salvage things.)
 

Tesseract

Banned
if d&d set out to make everyone fall in love with dany only to break their spirits, then i will enjoy the ending

also isn't one of the d's wives a jon snow obsessed freak, you think he wants to give up that easy pussy for life?
 
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RedVIper

Banned
Rewatching this show is so jarring, I just saw the first episode.

How does the pilot look like it has an higher budget than the last season of this show? Except for the stupid dragons everything is better, they have a feast that put's last episode to shame, I just don't understand, did they blow the entire budget on cocaine?
 

Kadayi

Banned
*sigh* I'm not entirely sure why people are discussing how the show should have finished or possibly posted leaked script spoilers as if they are common knowledge (thanks for that btw........do people even read the OP any more? ) given that there are still 2 episodes to go and despite the incredible amount of negativity permeating this thread, (seemingly all GAF is good for these days..) not all of us are on board the Show hate train doing the rounds here. Maybe take that talk to the correct thread here: -

 
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Falcs

Banned
*sigh* I'm not entirely sure why people are discussing how the show should have finished or possibly posted leaked script spoilers as if they are common knowledge (thanks for that btw........do people even read the OP any more? ) given that there are still 2 episodes to go and despite the incredible amount of negativity permeating this thread, (seemingly all GAF is good for these days..) not all of us are on board the Show hate train doing the rounds here. Maybe take that talk to the correct thread here: -

The show has turned to utter shit and now has garbage writing. Most people agree with this sentiment. That's why it's being discussed here a lot, because so many of us share the same thoughts.
If you don't agree, and are still enjoying the show, that's completely fine. Tell us why you disagree.
 

Kadayi

Banned
Falcs Falcs

What I posted isn't even a point of discussion. You want talk leaks? There's a separate thread for it.

From the OP: -

Note:
- Once something airs in the US on the East Coast, it's fair game to post about;
- This thread is purely to discuss the ongoing final season of Game of Thrones;
- Any video/text from HBO previews, loglines, trailers, interviews etc. that has any reference to plot should be spoilered;
- No spoilers/leaks etc;
- No speculation based on books;
- Fan speculation based on what we know as to the current airtime is fine. Do not speculate on the basis of leaked/external data (e.g. character A is in the cast list for Ep 6 so must not die in precarious position of Ep 2)
 
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Falcs

Banned
I'm not talking about leaks. I posted a video of a fan fiction ending. Nothing to do with leaks or the books.
You are right, we shouldn't be discussing the leaks here, but I was referring more to these part of your post:

*sigh* I'm not entirely sure why people are discussing how the show should have finished or possibly posted leaked script spoilers as if they are common knowledge (thanks for that btw........do people even read the OP any more? ) given that there are still 2 episodes to go and despite the incredible amount of negativity permeating this thread, (seemingly all GAF is good for these days..) not all of us are on board the Show hate train doing the rounds here. Maybe take that talk to the correct thread here: -
 

Kadayi

Banned
I'm not talking about leaks. I posted a video of a fan fiction ending. Nothing to do with leaks or the books.
You are right, we shouldn't be discussing the leaks here, but I was referring more to these part of your post:

I don't give a cunt what part of my posts you're referring to, You ignored the OP entirely.

bunk-the-wire.gif
 

Jon Neu

Banned
I still think that this Aemon guy was one of wisest man Westeros ever had.

65iBTwU.png


He could be a ruler of Westeros. Do you know what did instead? Not played the iron throne game. He decided to have a life on his own terms instead. I thought his wisdom should've reflected onto someone else but instead it seems it died with him. No one learned anything from that.

Yeah, but was he happy? Doesn't seem like it to me. He lost the love of his life.

A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing.

The world forgot about him, nobody even remembers that he was a Targaryen anymore. Yet he had to see how his House and his family was destroyed without doing nothing about it, because he himself was a man in ten thousand.

"I am a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Night's Watch. I will not tell you to stay or go. You must make that choice yourself, and live with it for the rest of your days — as I have."


It seems like he wasn't happy at the end by choosing duty.

f7549957737ee2d0fdc52d2376a6cfa86c7f0ca0v2_hq.jpg


He loves to talk about his brother Aegon being a child, about how he had to kill the boy and let the man be born. Talking again from his own experience, talking again from a bittersweet place deep in his heart.

"Egg! I dreamed...that I was old..."


Anyway, amazing character that sadly went away too early, like so many other great characters.
 

prag16

Banned
I'm not talking about leaks. I posted a video of a fan fiction ending. Nothing to do with leaks or the books.
You are right, we shouldn't be discussing the leaks here, but I was referring more to these part of your post:
I did post a LINK to a leak, without revealing any of the contents of the link. So I guess my bad, but I didn't know at the time that we even had a spoilers thread (it only has 24 posts in 4 days of activity, so it wasn't exactly on fire at the top of the topic list, but still, my bad).

But I definitely don't see why discussing alternatives they could have gone with, with respect to the NK's demise, should be prevented. The NK's story is (seemingly) over, and the episode was two weeks ago. Fan fiction alternatives to how that played out should be fair game. Kadayi Kadayi if anyone was openly doing this in the topic where it was clearly based on books and/or leaks, then I stand corrected, but I didn't see any of that at the very least not during the current discussion the last few pages, though it's possible I overlooked something.
 
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Barnabot

Member
Yeah, but was he happy? Doesn't seem like it to me. He lost the love of his life.

A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing.

The world forgot about him, nobody even remembers that he was a Targaryen anymore. Yet he had to see how his House and his family was destroyed without doing nothing about it, because he himself was a man in ten thousand.

"I am a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Night's Watch. I will not tell you to stay or go. You must make that choice yourself, and live with it for the rest of your days — as I have."


It seems like he wasn't happy at the end by choosing duty.

f7549957737ee2d0fdc52d2376a6cfa86c7f0ca0v2_hq.jpg


He loves to talk about his brother Aegon being a child, about how he had to kill the boy and let the man be born. Talking again from his own experience, talking again from a bittersweet place deep in his heart.

"Egg! I dreamed...that I was old..."


Anyway, amazing character that sadly went away too early, like so many other great characters.
I think he made sacrifices (like the quote you pasted) because of the choices he made. But he decided to stay in the Night's Watch because knew he could be a important player to be used by others. By doing that he neutralized himself and therefore Robert so he couldn't hurt anyone and neither Robert could hurt him. While other players are more likely to sacrifice the other people, even though indirectly, doing that at the expense of their hubris to win this game of thrones.

But speaking of that quote you just pasted. Couldn't he be talking about jon instead of him? Because everything he said fitted so well in Jon's past.
 
I'm surprised so many people's takeaway from the Jamie/Brienne thing was that Jamie is seriously going running back into Cersei's arms, tail between his legs. I think he said whatever he needed to, to make sure Brienne wouldn't follow him, and actually intends to kill Cersei.

That's entirely possible, but considering that Cersei told Jaime that she's pregnant with his child, I don't think he's going back to kill her. GRRM is quite enamored with redemption arcs and infanticide would most certainly go against that. What's more likely is that Jaime will try to talk some sense into Cersei, possibly in order to save her life. She will refuse to yield of course and Jaime will probably end up fighting Euron to the death. He already made it pretty clear in his discussion with Brienne that Jaime thinks of himself as beyond redemption because he can't let go of his past. In any case I'd say that Jaime is destined to die.
 

Raynes

Member
In the recap of episode 4 with Jamie asking Cersei "Who is the father"...that scene wasn't in the last season. I don't remember it at all. It was super strange as well, the camera angle and Cersei's expression. Anyone know if this was an actual scene from last season or one they just made? It's surprising that Jamie has to ask who the father is, as in the show the viewers are made the to that Jamie believes Cersei to be faithful as he doesn't ever find out she had been fucking Lancel. Surely Jamie would not be with Cersei if he had known she was fucking other guys, so why ask this? In the books he finds out Cersei had been fucking Lancel and that's when he abandons her.
 
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prag16

Banned
In the recap of episode 4 with Jamie asking Cersei "Who is the father"...that scene wasn't in the last season. I don't remember it at all. It was super strange as well, the camera angle and Cersei's expression. Anyone know if this was an actual scene from last season or one they just made?
My recollection can sometimes be foggy, but I'm about 85% sure I remember that scene from last season.
 

Raynes

Member
My recollection can sometimes be foggy, but I'm about 85% sure I remember that scene from last season.

Yep, you're right. It was just cut in a weird way, Jamie asked "who would you say is the father" as in who will she tell others is the father, not a question from him about who the father is as it seems in the out of context recap.
 

Tesseract

Banned
this shit show is almost over, two more wasteful episodes of television and then we can wait for germ to fill in the blanks on his death bed

*sigh* I'm not entirely sure why people are discussing how the show should have finished or possibly posted leaked script spoilers as if they are common knowledge (thanks for that btw........do people even read the OP any more? ) given that there are still 2 episodes to go and despite the incredible amount of negativity permeating this thread, (seemingly all GAF is good for these days..) not all of us are on board the Show hate train doing the rounds here. Maybe take that talk to the correct thread here: -


not sure if that was aimed at me, i absolutely wasn't doing that in my post

*edit* further reading, not seeing much from other peeps either, maybe i missed it
 
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eot

Banned
I'm super late to the party, but I thought Ep.4 was maybe one of the most poorly written episodes of the show. This isn't actually the worst part, but I can't help but feel the most annoyed about how Rhaegal died though. This is of course a fantasy show, one where supernatural things happen, but I just can't swallow AA ballistas that have such range and precision (from boats!), that would make dragons obsolete as a weapon and that she somehow didn't see until it was too late. The producers literally said she forgot about Euron's army, like wtf. Eat a dick you hacks.
 
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autoduelist

Member
That's entirely possible, but considering that Cersei told Jaime that she's pregnant with his child, I don't think he's going back to kill her. GRRM is quite enamored with redemption arcs and infanticide would most certainly go against that. What's more likely is that Jaime will try to talk some sense into Cersei, possibly in order to save her life. She will refuse to yield of course and Jaime will probably end up fighting Euron to the death. He already made it pretty clear in his discussion with Brienne that Jaime thinks of himself as beyond redemption because he can't let go of his past. In any case I'd say that Jaime is destined to die.

I agree Jaime's arc should be redemption. For Bran, for everything he has done in Cersei's name. Walking away from her was completion of that arc. His experiences with momma Stark and Brienne were steps along the path. Losing his hand. Even coming to peace with the sad fact that his one act of valor made him the kingslayer, recast by history as cowardly and deceitful given his role as kingsguard.

Walking away was that redemption. Going back to Cersei undoes it, even if he was lying to Brienne as to the motivation.

The love scene with Brienne was pure fan fiction. They're just throwing characters into the garbage disposal at this point.

I agree Jaime will die, because my guess has long been Arya wears his face to kill Cersei. I expected Jaime to die in battle, though, so I dont know how they can pull that off now. Though maybe they will subvert expectations and have Jon kill Cersei since arya already stole his rightful kill.

I'm scared to check out spoilers. Ever since I joked Sansa will end up on the throne, I can't get it out of my head. If that happens there isnt enough bleach for my mind, and I think we need to collectively kidnap GRRM to force him to finish the books and have HBO reshoot seasons 4-8.
 
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I have to assume that there was some dishonesty with Jamie.

He may have said and acted like a dick but, he may just be trying to convince his sister to leave King’s Landing. To avoid more bloodshed. It may not be to rejoin her.

His arch would be made completely unless if he does. I don’t think they can fuck up that bad.
 

Jon Neu

Banned
I think he made sacrifices (like the quote you pasted) because of the choices he made. But he decided to stay in the Night's Watch because knew he could be a important player to be used by others. By doing that he neutralized himself and therefore Robert so he couldn't hurt anyone and neither Robert could hurt him. While other players are more likely to sacrifice the other people, even though indirectly, doing that at the expense of their hubris to win this game of thrones.

He choose duty over love (the love of his family and the love of the women), but it's clear that when he talks about love being the death of duty, is because he has thought about it for so long.

And while he tried to not hurt anyone, in the end his house was almost entirely killed. To me, I have always interpreted his character and his wisdom as something he himself has thought too much, something he has gone through and had second thoughts about it. He was probably full of remorse, but also resignation.

But speaking of that quote you just pasted. Couldn't he be talking about jon instead of him? Because everything he said fitted so well in Jon's past.

That's one of the beautiful things of GRRM writing, lots of things have double and triple meaning.

For example when Aemon says that a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing, everybody thinks of Dany, obviously. But for me that has always been Aemon talking from his own experience. The experience of being a Targaryen alone in the world while his house and his family were decimated.
 
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Javthusiast

Banned
D&D:

Aren't you happy we subverterd your expectations by making you think an apocalyptic event that has been building up for thousands of years and for the entirety of the show would be important, instead of just being debuff for daenerys’ army?


At this point, I'm rooting for Game of Thrones to be as terrible as it can possibly be. If I can't get a good ending, give me the fucking worst.
 
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Javthusiast

Banned
Don't you love how D&D miss the obvious symbolism of the chair being a huge, monstrous, jagged abominable thing made by swords and created by a conqueror that no one should sit on.

I'll be repeating this when the final scene of the show happens and it's obviously a slow zoom out on whoever is sitting in that fucking chair as the theme song plays.
 

greyshark

Member
The entire last episode was the show telling you things are looking bad for Dany - her enemies have nullified her trump card, her allies don’t believe in her, her advisors are plotting against her, and her friend got killed.

TIME TO SUBVERT YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Expect a Godfather style mass execution of all of Danys enemies at the end of next episode as she emerges victorious from certain defeat.
 
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Geki-D

Banned
I have to assume that there was some dishonesty with Jamie.

He may have said and acted like a dick but, he may just be trying to convince his sister to leave King’s Landing. To avoid more bloodshed. It may not be to rejoin her.

His arch would be made completely unless if he does. I don’t think they can fuck up that bad.
Seems to me like the plot is setting up another King Slayer situation where Cersei will make some crazy order and at the last second Jamie will backstab her.
 

Geki-D

Banned

I noticed it during the show too, but isn't Sansa meant to be a natural redhead? Yet look at those roots. Either she's going grey in the series canon or she's always lied about her true hair color. I get that the actress is blond but she's playing a redhead so maybe they should stick to that? How have they not covered that up for the show? Isn't anyone paying attention to the details on set anymore?
 

chaos789

Banned
I waited 2 years for this season and this is what we get. All these years of propping up the white walkers and the Night King and they are killed in episode 3. And Arya kills the Night King, not Jon Snow. For what reason was Jon Snow even brought back to life for. And the way she killed him.....yeah.

I am done with this show, not even going to bother finishing it.

At least Stranger Things S3 will be on soon.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I'm super late to the party, but I thought Ep.4 was maybe one of the most poorly written episodes of the show. This isn't actually the worst part, but I can't help but feel the most annoyed about how Rhaegal died though. This is of course a fantasy show, one where supernatural things happen, but I just can't swallow AA ballistas that have such range and precision (from boats!), that would make dragons obsolete as a weapon and that she somehow didn't see until it was too late. The producers literally said she forgot about Euron's army, like wtf. Eat a dick you hacks.
This is what happens when the writing style changes from "characters' decisions drive the plot" (GRRM's style) to "our pre-decided plot beats drive the characters' decisions, even if those decisions are stupid" (D&D's style). To be fair, D&D wouldn't have had to resort to that if GRRM had kept up with writing more books, but it is what it is.
 
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