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[Morrigan Stark]

Do you like anything?!

Plenty of things. But not if it has alcohol in it. Yuck!

Some day, they'll learn. Stannis isn't even close to the same ballpark of pure evil that Joffrey, Gregor or Theon's torturer are. It's not really comparable. Tywin and Cersei are both much more villanous than Stannis could ever hope to be. Especially Tywin. People forgive him because Charles Dance is boss maximus.

So true. Tywin is a monster but Charles Dance is so charismatic that we can't help but like his TV version. I try to remind myself of his ultimate douche speech to Tyrion when he denies him his birthright (and blames him for his mother's death, classy) whenever I'm thinking "yay Tywin's so badass". [ASoS]

Spoiler

Can't wait for him to eat a crossbow to the bowels. So well deserved.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I don't get Dumb Bitch for Catelyn. That's a weird one. If her stupid son had only listened to her, they wouldn't be having so many problems. Theon would never been able to take over Winterfell for starters.

It's cool and hip to hate Catelyn. Didn't you get the memo?

Well actually they hate her for doing things that only seem stupid with 100% hindsight (arresting Tyrion and taking her to Lysa, freeing Jaime). It's like people forget that she doesn't have access to the same information the omniscient readers/viewers do. Such as:
- Q: "How could she trust Littlefinger that Tyrion was guilty?!" A: Because he's her childhood friend, and because Littlefinger is considered amiable and harmless by everyone at court.
- Q: "Why would she arrest Tyrion?" A: Because while she was trying to avoid his presence, he was right there in her grasp and she didn't want to let her son's potential murderer elude her grasp.
- Q: "Why would she take Tyrion to that crazy bitch?!" A: Because she hasn't seen Lysa in years and doesn't know how crazy she became, and there's no reason she shouldn't trust her sister.
- Q: "Why did she free the kingslayer?!" A: Because she wants to see her daughters back and Robb was too stupid to do the hostage exchange because "lol they're girls", even though Sansa's political worth is much stronger than Jaime's (since she can get married to the Tyrells and therefore get their army).

And so on. But, most of all, people hate Catelyn because she said something mean to Jon Snow. Sad, I know.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Part of the confusion was that a couple people thought **HUGE SEASON 3 / ASOS SPOILERS**

Spoiler

that, based on what you said, Talisa was going to literally die of a gutshot from an arrow. lol

Oh lololol

 

[Fey]

It's cool and hip to hate Catelyn. Didn't you get the memo?

Well actually they hate her for doing things that only seem stupid with 100% hindsight (arresting Tyrion and taking her to Lysa, freeing Jaime). It's like people forget that she doesn't have access to the same information the omniscient readers/viewers do. Such as:
- Q: "How could she trust Littlefinger that Tyrion was guilty?!" A: Because he's her childhood friend, and because Littlefinger is considered amiable and harmless by everyone at court.
- Q: "Why would she arrest Tyrion?" A: Because while she was trying to avoid his presence, he was right there in her grasp and she didn't want to let her son's potential murderer elude her grasp.
- Q: "Why would she take Tyrion to that crazy bitch?!" A: Because she hasn't seen Lysa in years and doesn't know how crazy she became, and there's no reason she shouldn't trust her sister.
- Q: "Why did she free the kingslayer?!" A: Because she wants to see her daughters back and Robb was too stupid to do the hostage exchange because "lol they're girls", even though Sansa's political worth is much stronger than Jaime's (since she can get married to the Tyrells and therefore get their army).

And so on. But, most of all, people hate Catelyn because she said something mean to Jon Snow. Sad, I know.

I've been saying this since forever. Cat does not deserve the amount of hate she gets.

 

[DrForester]

Plenty of things. But not if it has alcohol in it. Yuck!


So true. Tywin is a monster but Charles Dance is so charismatic that we can't help but like his TV version. I try to remind myself of his ultimate douche speech to Tyrion when he denies him his birthright (and blames him for his mother's death, classy) whenever I'm thinking "yay Tywin's so badass". [ASoS]

Spoiler

Can't wait for him to eat a crossbow to the bowels. So well deserved.

ASOS

Spoiler

You can think Tywin is a badass and still think he totally got what was coming to him at the same time.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

- Q: "Why would she arrest Tyrion?" A: Because while she was trying to avoid his presence, he was right there in her grasp and she didn't want to let her son's potential murderer elude her grasp.

On top of that (and I agree with everything you've said), once Tyrion had seen her, her hand was completely forced regardless of her personal feelings. Tyrion would realize that she was returning from King's Landing, and if he just went on his way, he could then tell Jaime/Cersei that he had run into her on his way back down, and they would realize that the Starks were up to something.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

ASOS

Spoiler

I feel like Catelyn's casting will really shine when the change happens

 

[Dysun]

Releasing your only valuable hostage is a dumb move, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Speevy]

Cat is not a "big picture" thinker.

 

[Last Hearth]

It was not a good move releasing Jaime. But in the show Jaime was going to get killed by Karstark (and judging by what Karstark does to the Lannister boys it seems her take on the situation was probably correct).

 

[Brashnir]

I find it funny that people go into such histrionics to argue that Stannis is being mischaracterized when show watchers find him un-likable, when pretty much every single character who knows him in the books describes him as completely un-likable.

That's not to say that he's a monster or beyond redemption,

Spoiler

and I know the stuff at the wall is coming up does redeem him to a large degree

but he was always an idiot in the books who stuck to a slavish devotion to what he thought should be right while ignoring the reality all around him. The only reason he's the "lawful heir" to the throne is that his brother took the damn thing unlawfully by force.

 

[Speevy]

The guy playing Stannis seems somewhat limited as an actor. I can't imagine liking him under any circumstance.

 

[brentech]

The guy playing Stannis seems somewhat limited as an actor. I can't imagine liking him under any circumstance.

Sounds like he nailed Stannis then.

 

[Fuu]

In the books I never got the impression that Stannis was supposed to be "likable" at any point... Davos was always the one to root for in the Dragonstone-based circle of characters while the others there range between interesting and offbeat. I don't really root for sides while reading this series though, the world is so fucked up and everyone is so potentially fucked that along the way I simply stopped feeling compelled to cheer for anything, haha.

The rightful king stuff is particularly funny, it's not even something very relevant when it comes to the Baratheons all things considered. If you want to go down the legitimate heir road you might as well go Targaryen.

 

[DrForester]

I think the book benefits from seeing Stannis through Davos' eyes and he's very, very loyal to Stannis.

 

[Altazor]

Stannis is somewhat unlikeable, but his blunt sense of humor is the best. I bet he's totally laughing inside and he's pissed off that nobody seems to understand him.

[ASOS quotes/spoilers!]

Spoiler

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

Spoiler

"Stannis ground his teeth. 'It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.'
That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, 'Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?'
'Any of you, I would think. Even the cook.'"

 

[TheExodu5]

In the books I never got the impression that Stannis was supposed to be "likable" at any point... Davos was always the one to root for in the Dragonstone-based circle of characters while the others there range between interesting and offbeat. I don't really root for sides while reading this series though, the world is so fucked up and everyone is so potentially fucked that along the way I simply stopped feeling compelled to cheer for anything, haha.

The rightful king stuff is particularly funny, it's not even something very relevant when it comes to the Baratheons all things considered. If you want to go down the legitimate heir road you might as well go Targaryen.

In the books, they specifically describe Stannis as being particularly uncharismatic, IIRC.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Stannis is somewhat unlikeable, but his blunt sense of humor is the best. I bet he's totally laughing inside and he's pissed off that nobody seems to understand him.

[ASOS quotes/spoilers!]

Spoiler

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

Spoiler

"Stannis ground his teeth. 'It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.'
That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, 'Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?'
'Any of you, I would think. Even the cook.'"

ADWD

Spoiler

Fuck you, Bowen Marsh. You shitty pomegranate.

 

[Last Hearth]

I find it funny that people go into such histrionics to argue that Stannis is being mischaracterized when show watchers find him un-likable, when pretty much every single character who knows him in the books describes him as completely un-likable.

Complete hyperbole. Yes, many people don't like him, but the one that don't like him tend to be of the sort I don't like. Like LF, Renly, etc. Cressen and Davos like him,

Spoiler

Jon respects him

 

[Altazor]

ADWD

Spoiler

Fuck you, Bowen Marsh. You shitty pomegranate.

[ADWD spoilers!!! and a bit of speculation]

Spoiler

gosh that part was hard to read. I know something was a bit "amiss" with the whole forsaking vows thingie, and Mel's visions that Jon stupidly dismissed, but still... Jon getting Et-Tu-Brute'd kinda hit me. Also, I want the TWOW prologue to be from Marsh's POV, just so we know WTF happens exactly after he pulls that Brutus card and I really hope he dies a fucking gruesome death by giant or Ghost or whatever.

 

[Paches]

Just listened to the latest Bill Simmons podcast with Andy Greenwald. I was literally laughing at how little he knew and his complaint that you "had to pay attention" to understand the show.

 

[Last Hearth]

I'm surprised he's even watching it. When the show first came out he said he wasn't going to watch it because he's not into fantasy.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

In the books, they specifically describe Stannis as being particularly uncharismatic, IIRC.

I find it funny that people go into such histrionics to argue that Stannis is being mischaracterized when show watchers find him un-likable, when pretty much every single character who knows him in the books describes him as completely un-likable.

It's worth noting that Stannis' sense of humour is almost anachronistic; in a world where humour basically comprises bawdy songs, jesters and japes directed at those of a lower social standing than yourself the things Stannis says, like telling Renly his wife will stay a virgin in his bed or giving snark about his own magic sword, stick out. His bluntness in contrast with everyone else's carefully guarded exchanges would make people uncomfortable, hence the descriptions of him as humourless. It's similar to how Dolorous Edd is called Dolorous Edd and not Hilarious Edd.

 

[Chuckie]

Guys all this talk of hope.

Viewers don't need hope. THEY NEED TO SUFFER.

They do need hope! It makes the suffering so much more painful

Ask Theon.

 

[suzu]

Stannis has some great lines in the books. The more I read, the more I warmed up to him.

They need to bring more of that to the show. Also Davos likes him. lol

 

[Steelyuhas]

Twitter recap

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Leaked image(?)

Spoiler

Somebody's worried

 

[roosters93]

facebook recap

I really like how consistent the dialogue is when I think about Bran telling Osha "you pulled a knife on me the first time we met". All the Starks are properly characterized in that concise and pragmatic way. It reminded me of Ned's "which of you was a marksman at 10?" from the pilot. Such an awesome contrast with anyone from say, KL who would never be that direct. All the characters like Tyrion, Littlefinger, etc get their zingers in too, but they have those great verbal gymnastics to get there. Ned, Bran, Robb, Jon and Arya are so utilitarian and to the point when they talk by comparison and I love how the show nails that.

post more pls

 

[Atsumi]

Leaked image(?)

[ASOS]

Spoiler

Somebody's worried [/URL]

Robb spends a lot of time with his fists on the table, I've noticed.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Leaked image(?)

Spoiler

Somebody's worried

ASOS

Spoiler

OOOoooooohhhh shit! Is it true that the whole of ep 9 will take place at the twins? I'm having trouble figuring out how that'll work. Surely an hour of wedding shenanigans will make viewers realise shit is gonna go down?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

ASOS

Spoiler

OOOoooooohhhh shit! Is it true that the whole of ep 9 will take place at the twins? I'm having trouble figuring out how that'll work. Surely an hour of wedding shenanigans will make viewers realise shit is gonna go down?

ASOS

Spoiler

I don't think so. http://winteriscoming.net/2013/05/synopses-for-the-final-two-episodes-of-season-3/ has the synopsis for episode 9 and it includes other stuff. But yeah, having the entire episode based around the wedding would make people realize something was up.

 

[Brashnir]

ASOS

Spoiler

OOOoooooohhhh shit! Is it true that the whole of ep 9 will take place at the twins? I'm having trouble figuring out how that'll work. Surely an hour of wedding shenanigans will make viewers realise shit is gonna go down?

I doubt it. There's just not enough there to fill an entire episode.

Spoiler

Arrival, explaining guest right, and then the event itself.

It shouldn't really take more than 15 minutes of screen time. I'm sure other stuff will be going on that episode too.

 

[Reyne]

Bran and Arya aren't utilitarian, they are kids. And naive as kids are.
And I don't think any one of the Starks are utilitarian, with the exception of Jon, as he is presented in the books, and is not a Stark.
If Ned was utilitarian, he would have taken up on Renly's offer and taken control over the castle. He could have kept Cersei and Joffrey safe, as hostages to keep Tywin at bay and make sure there is no further conflict. But that wasn't honorable enough for old Ned.
If Robb is utilitarian, he would have listened to his mother and uncle and not hacked off old Karstark's head. Keep him hostage so he could keep Karstark's forces. But that wasn't honorable enough for Robb. I mean, who did he think he was supposed to please with executing Karstark? The Lannisters? Yeah, I am sure they are pleased Robb just lost the better part of his forces because of that.

Spoiler

And he definitely wouldn't have broken his vow and married for his own personal reason, to the woe of pretty much everyone supporting his cause. This is more obvious in the books, where Robb marries because it is the honorable thing to do, not because he simply doesn't give a damn.

Leaked image(?)

Spoiler

Somebody's worried

Spoiler

So Robb will not wear a crown, after all? Color me disappointed.

 

[roosters93]

Duane was only saying they are utilitarian in their speech and observations not their actions.

I think it's definitely possible to characterise them that way. They're often terse but not to the point of rudeness. It's not applicable to Sansa though as she adopts more of her mother's way of speech and when she arrives in King's Landing mimics the ladies of court.

 

[Reyne]

Duane was only saying they are utilitarian in their speech and observations not their actions.

Yeah, my mistake. Though I think there better words than utilitarian to use to describe the Starks, even if its just their speech...

Robb HAD to kill Karstark and not out of honor. Karstark forced him into that situation by questioning his cause.

I disagree, I do not think Robb HAD to kill Karstark. Again, it is very common to keep highborn hostages, because they are at any point worth more alive than dead. Ask Tywin what he thought on Joffrey killing Ned. Folly. Dead, he is nothing more than fuel for a rebellion. Alive, his followers cannot make a move. The same thing applies to Karstark, regardless of what he has to say about Robb or his cause. Besides, Robb executed Karstark for murdering Robb's hostages. Too much Ned in him to kill a man for saying something.

Had not Robb killed Karstark he would have been betrayed by his men, either left and deserted or killed. At that point

Spoiler

in the story it is obvious Robb's war effort is a lost cause

For what reason would they ( whose men? Robb's own or the bannermen? ) betray him, may I ask? No one was calling for the execution of Karstark. Killing a man because of what he has to say only proves you fear what he says.
However, upon hearing that the Karstark forces went home because their liege lord is dead = no reason to stay...

Spoiler

Yeah, that would certainly make people have even more faith in Robb's cause. I know it was a lost cause. But killing Karstark did not help the cause one bit. It only led credence to Frey and Bolton's eventual betrayal, that Robb had lost control over the situation.

As for the rest,

Spoiler

Yeah, Robb should have bent the knee.

 

[Eidan]

Yeah, my mistake. Though I think there better words than utilitarian to use to describe the Starks, even if its just their speech...

They use stark language.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Yeah, my mistake. Though I think there better words than utilitarian to use to describe the Starks, even if its just their speech...

Yeah, you're probably right. but like Rooster said, I'm just talking about the dialogue, not their actual actions. They all consistently have that straight forward way of stating things.

 

[Reyne]

Dude he would be seen as a weak and ineffectual leader. His mother let go one of their prime bargaining chips. He marries a woman for honor and the Karstark/Frey troops fucking shit up as they leave camp to head to the twins. Karstark personally insulted him saying he's weak and lets slights go. If he were to not kill Karstark he would be seen as weak after everything Karstark said.

If he executed Karstark for those reason ( i.e. giving in to pressue of what other would think of him ) then he already was a weak leader. But he didn't kill Karstark for what he said, but for what he did. The murdering of the hostages and thats a fact. That's the sort of person Robb is. Again, Robb could have held Karstark hostage and no one would have batted an eye, and he would have kept the Karstark forces. If people were whispering in the ranks then he could have them flogged or whatever. But executing a valuable hostage for those reasons? No.

Spoiler

Though it wouldn't have made a difference, I wager. Robb would still head for the Twins and the same fate would befall him as before.

 

[pr0cs]

Stannis is somewhat unlikeable, but his blunt sense of humor is the best. I bet he's totally laughing inside and he's pissed off that nobody seems to understand him.

 

[Lkr]

I doubt it. There's just not enough there to fill an entire episode.

Spoiler

Arrival, explaining guest right, and then the event itself.

It shouldn't really take more than 15 minutes of screen time. I'm sure other stuff will be going on that episode too.

i really hope they explain it after, but i'm almost certain it was mentioned back in the first few episodes of season 1

 

[Altazor]

"hundreds will die!"
"thousands."

 

[Gvaz]

Leaked image(?)

Spoiler

Somebody's worried

Oh shit. oh shit. OH SHIT.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The guy playing Stannis seems somewhat limited as an actor. I can't imagine liking him under any circumstance.

I mean, that's Stannis. We're talking about a character that Ned Stark thought was a stuffy, by-the-books guy.

 

[-griffy-]

Oh shit. oh shit. OH SHIT.

I can't wait. ASOS and upcoming show:

Spoiler

There was an interview about the cinematography posted a few pages back that talked about how they lit what I assume is that scene. It starts with A LOT of torches and fires lit, making it very well and overly lit to give you a false sense of security. But at a certain natural point a bunch of the extras leave the set and carry a bunch of the torches out and it gets much darker, subtly foreshadowing what's about to happen. Ugh it's gonna be so good.

 

[cashman]

I just finished GOT Season 2 and I'm on Book 5 and I was kind of surprised how differently many of the events were from the book compared to how Season 1 was. Does Season 3 continue to diverge from the books?

 

[Chris R]

I just finished GOT Season 2 and I'm on Book 5 and I was kind of surprised how differently many of the events were from the book compared to how Season 1 was. Does Season 3 continue to diverge from the books?

Yes it does, but I think most things are well done.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

ASOS

Spoiler

that pic....uuuugh it's gonna be so hard to watch

I just finished GOT Season 2 and I'm on Book 5 and I was kind of surprised how differently many of the events were from the book compared to how Season 1 was. Does Season 3 continue to diverge from the books?

A Clash of Kings is where the cast really starts to explode and you need to keep track of a lot more characters/events/histories/houses/etc. It just doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective to keep things that complicated for a TV series. A lot can be simplified, minor characters can be consolidated, etc. while telling the same story.

I do believe Season 2 could have been handled better and things were a little muddy. But so far, everything they've done in season 3 has either worked in the context of the TV show, and some additional/changed things have actually worked better than in the books.

 

[cashman]

Yes it does, but I think most things are well done.

The one thing I am enjoying about Season 2 is the Tywin and Arya dynamic

ASOS

Spoiler

I'm disappointed they killed Doreah off though, because this means we'll never see that lesbo scene with Danaerys

 

[Forsaken82]

The one thing I am enjoying about Season 2 is the Tywin and Arya dynamic

ASOS

Spoiler

I'm disappointed they killed Doreah off though, because this means we'll never see that lesbo scene with Danaerys

Spoiler

Missandei

was aged up... something to think about?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The one thing I am enjoying about Season 2 is the Tywin and Arya dynamic

ASOS

Spoiler

I'm disappointed they killed Doreah off though, because this means we'll never see that lesbo scene with Danaerys

Doreah was already dead by that point in the books, anyway. ASOS

Spoiler

It was Irri who had that scene with her in the books (although she's now been killed off for some reason, too, so I guess it will have to be Missandei.