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[Last Hearth]

... really?

ASOS

Spoiler

The only reason I think it might have less of an impact than Ned's death is because I feel there are a lot more book readers now.

But there is no way Robb's death will be viewed similarly as Renly's. Robb is a favourite for many people, and people feel revenge for what happened to Ned lays in his hands. he represents the Starks for many people, and many people are rooting for the Starks. Plus Robb and Cat are two main characters who have been in this show since episode 1, and when they die, people aren't going to be like, "Oh ok."

I doubt the fact that more Northerners haven't been established will be the difference between "HOOOOOOOOLY SHIT WTF" and "eh ..."

ASOS

Spoiler

The show has already made his cause almost hopeless by having the Karstarks take away "half his men". Which btw is ridiculous. But the hope for the Starks didn't just lie in the Robb, but all solidarity of the North behind his cause. He can die and the cause can still continue. But after the RW the cause is shattered, because the Stark loyalist were almost all murdered there. Then entire Northern host was slaughtered. The RW killed all hope. Which is why many people like myself couldn't even turn the page after reading it and had to take a break. There is almost no chance the show can accomplish this because they haven't set up the story sufficiently to earn that moment.

 

[User 100115]

series

Spoiler

No way Blackfish is going to the Twins. He'll be left to watch Riverun, same as in the books.

Spoiler

He's one of my top favs, so I hope they don't do something as stupid as that.

 

[Last Hearth]

ASOS

Spoiler

Balckfish can't be there because Jaime has to leave KL in book 4 to lift the siege of RR, without the BF to hold it there is no siege.

 

[Randdalf]

ASOS

Spoiler

I hope they do the fake Arya death scene as well, will make the reactions even more glorious

 

[cashman]

So wait ASOS

Spoiler

The RW will be the Episode 9 not the finale?

 

[Timbuktu]

but...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6d2nbXate1qajaz9.gif

I remember that gif, but did not recognise her at all. With all the Misfits, is it possible at all that they might cast Antonia Thomas?

 

[Massa]

ASOS

Spoiler

The show has already made his cause almost hopeless by having the Karstarks take away "half his men". Which btw is ridiculous. But the hope for the Starks didn't just lie in the Robb, but all solidarity of the North behind his cause. He can die and the cause can still continue. But after the RW the cause is shattered, because the Stark loyalist were almost all murdered there. Then entire Northern host was slaughtered. The RW killed all hope. Which is why many people like myself couldn't even turn the page after reading it and had to take a break. There is almost no chance the show can accomplish this because they haven't set up the story sufficiently to earn that moment.

Major ASOS

Spoiler

The books and the show are not the same. That said, the North and people's hope for the "good" guys will die in episode 9 just the same. What you felt about a bunch of Northern lords is how TV viewers feel about the King In The North, all channeled in one.

The RW will have a bigger impact on TV viewers because of that change, which was necessary.

 

[cj_iwakura]

ASOS

Spoiler

Huh? Robb was a secondary character in the books. Rarely seen in person once the war started, and usually had his exploits told secondhand. I don't see how you can think the show has failed to create an emotional attachment to the character when they've done everything they can to make him a more prominent character than in the books.

ASOS

Spoiler

I agree. Robb is a LOT more popular with series fans because of his actor being awesome, and him generally being involved a lot more.

This will be nuts.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

ASOS

Spoiler

I agree. Robb is a LOT more popular with series fans because of his actor being awesome, and him generally being involved a lot more.

This will be nuts.

Err...All

Spoiler

Also because people loved Ned and Rob is avenging Ned. Without that impact things would not be the same with the series fans

 

[Last Hearth]

ASOS

Spoiler

Really, go into any of the non-book reader threads on the internet and nobody is talking about Robb, it's all Khaleesi/Tywin/KL in general.

 

[DrForester]

Series

Spoiler

Robb's death will be big. Cat's death will be big (if they're smart enough not to reveal Stoneheart until next season). That's about the last big death for a while. Well except for the exuberance next season when Joffrey dies. Even Tywin, who is very popular, gets what's coming to it. And his death being by Tyrion's hands will make it go down as a great moment, but not just because of the big shock of Tywin dying.

 

[tirminyl]

So wait ASOS

Spoiler

The RW will be the Episode 9 not the finale?

ASOS

Spoiler

They seem to do big events like this on the ninth episode and follow up the finale with the aftermath and such.

 

[Fey]

ASOS

Spoiler

Really, go into any of the non-book reader threads on the internet and nobody is talking about Robb, it's all Khaleesi/Tywin/KL in general.

ASOS

Spoiler

I went into the GAF one right now and Robb has been discussed on nearly every page for a while.

I mean, I agree that his and Cat's death may not be as huge as Ned's death, but it will be nowhere near as lackluster as Renly's death (both in terms of reaction and execution of the scene).

edit: I suppose we'll see, though. One of us will be right in a few weeks!

 

[Dysun]

ASOS

Spoiler

Because, as I have already stated, the RW wasn't just about the killing of Robb, it was about the completely destruction of the North and all the Stark loyalists. The show has not given us the contingent of Stark loyalists for us to mourn their loss. So for the show viewer, the RW will be about the same as the Renly assassination.

What an exaggeration, you're crazy.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

ASOS

Spoiler

Really, go into any of the non-book reader threads on the internet and nobody is talking about Robb, it's all Khaleesi/Tywin/KL in general.

ASoS

Spoiler

The limitation of the TV medium and the loss of lesser bannermen like the Glovers and Ryswells doesn't matter. Robb represents the North as he's the son of the de facto "protagonist" of the first season. More than that, he represents a "hero" insofar as this series has one. This isn't lost on viewers... in fact it probably resonate MORE with viewers then book readers going through it the first time due to the mediums. Just because viewers aren't clamoring for Robb every single week doesn't mean that they aren't waiting for that MOMENT... i.e. the typical arc of the redemption of a lost character via his/her child. The Red Wedding shatters that completely, and the lack of some bannermen isn't going to change that. Comparing this to the death of Renly is ludicrous.

Anecdotally, I watch the show with 5 non-book readers weekly, and they are ALL on team Stark. In fact, I'd say he's a favorite behind only Tyrion. Dany's kinda come into favor the last couple weeks, but almost everyone was annoyed with her last season, and until Astapor. One of them during Blackwater was screaming because he thought it was Robb who was riding in to give Stannis the edge instead of Tywin.

I get your point that the RW in the books basically gives you the sense that the North was lost, but I don't think that's going to be a lost element in the show.

 

[exYle]

ASOS

Spoiler

Because, as I have already stated, the RW wasn't just about the killing of Robb, it was about the completely destruction of the North and all the Stark loyalists. The show has not given us the contingent of Stark loyalists for us to mourn their loss. So for the show viewer, the RW will be about the same as the Renly assassination.

...
SoS

Spoiler

Obviously, with your name being Last Hearth, you have a stronger identification with the other Northern lords than I'd imagine most people do. But to me, the Umbers and the Mormonts (aside from Jeor and Jorah) are just names and casualties. The impact of the Red Wedding is entirely from losing Starks. Without the Starks in a position of power, the Northern cause would be lost regardless of who else died or survived.

 

[DrForester]

Series

Spoiler

At the end of the day, the only Stark Bannermen who matter at this point are the Bolton's and Frey's for betraying him. The Manderly's come in to play later on, but ignoring them now isn't a big deal.

I guess you could say the Reeds as well, because Howland's children are with Bran, and depending on which theory you subscribe to, Howland Reed may also be the only man alive who can answer questions about Jon.

 

[Speevy]

ASOS

Spoiler

For show watchers, the Red Wedding is the complete dissolution of any hope there might have been of avenging Ned. Bran and Arya aren't running around with their own armies.

 

[cj_iwakura]

ASOS

Spoiler

For show watchers, the Red Wedding is the complete dissolution of any hope there might have been of avenging Ned and putting a Stark on the iron throne. Bran and Arya aren't running around with their own armies.

Series

Spoiler

I think the show has done a good job of painting the picture that there are much, much bigger things at stake than the Ninepenny Kings' petty little war.

 

[DrForester]

ASOS

Spoiler

For show watchers, the Red Wedding is the complete dissolution of any hope there might have been of avenging Ned and putting a Stark on the iron throne. Bran and Arya aren't running around with their own armies.

ASOS

Spoiler

Eh, anyone who ever thought that hasn't been paying attention. Robb has no interest in the Iron Throne, he wasn't the North and Riverlands to be independent. I always thought the stupidest decision Stannis made was rejecting that offer.

 

[Speevy]

Spoiler

Again, I'll state the show's major dilemma from the perspective of someone who usually watches shows instead of reading books.

Shows start with something that is true at the beginning, develop an underlying theme, and carry that theme through from the first episode to the last. Something that was true in the first episode has to be true in the last. Now, the first scene we see is Whitewalkers, so in that sense they are still on track.

However, ending the series with the Starks in minor roles undermines the typical structure of a show.

And I edited that part about Robb on the Iron throne. I know they've been fighting for independence, though I'm sure most show watchers if polled would say that Robb wants the Iron Throne.

 

[CitizenVectron]

As a general point, many TV watchers may like Tyrion or someone else more, but most associate Robb and the Starks in general as "the good guys."

 

[roosters93]

They use stark language.

Winning.

I can't wait. ASOS and upcoming show:

Spoiler

There was an interview about the cinematography posted a few pages back that talked about how they lit what I assume is that scene. It starts with A LOT of torches and fires lit, making it very well and overly lit to give you a false sense of security. But at a certain natural point a bunch of the extras leave the set and carry a bunch of the torches out and it gets much darker, subtly foreshadowing what's about to happen. Ugh it's gonna be so good.

ASOS:

Spoiler

Urgh I can't wait. Simultaneously keen for its depiction on television and dreading it.

 

[Snake]

[ASOS]

Spoiler

In moments such as when Jaime was about to lose his hand, and when Dany claimed her Unsullied, my heart was beating so fast it felt like it was going to leap out of my chest. I imagine Episode 9 will kill me.

 

[DrForester]

As a general point, many TV watchers may like Tyrion or someone else more, but most associate Robb and the Starks in general as "the good guys."

Series

Spoiler

Anyone else hope the show has the guts to leave Tyrion MIA after he escapes King's Landing? One of my favorite parts of AFFC was the constant presense of Tyrion, only in the heads of Jamie (remembering his words about Cersei) and Cersei, who thinks he's lurking in every shadow, about to kill her. While I know they couldn't get rid of him for an entire season, I'd love if he were just gone for half the 5th season.

 

[Emerson]

This is only the second post on this page not to contain spoiler tags.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

This is only the second post on this page not to contain spoiler tags.

It is kinda ridiculous

I kinda don't get the purpose of a separate thread, catered to the book readers, but with all the book content spoilered?

 

[DrForester]

As a general point, many TV watchers may like Tyrion or someone else more, but most associate Robb and the Starks in general as "the good guys."

Same. I'm reading the books currently, so it's nice for me, but I just cant imagine there are too many of us who are currently reading, and think the majority of GAF has read all, or read none.

But I hear the all spoiler book thread has a lot of TV talk.

 

[Pkaz01]

It is kinda ridiculous

I kinda don't get the purpose of a separate thread, catered to the book readers, but with all the book content spoilered?

One problem is people dont know how to read thread titles, second problem is there are many people who havent read every book but have read some

 

[Eidan]

Series

Spoiler

Anyone else hope the show has the guts to leave Tyrion MIA after he escapes King's Landing? One of my favorite parts of AFFC was the constant presense of Tyrion, only in the heads of Jamie (remembering his words about Cersei) and Cersei, who thinks he's lurking in every shadow, about to kill her. While I know they couldn't get rid of him for an entire season, I'd love if he were just gone for half the 5th season.

Spoiler

I'd support this only if I were hoping the show would get cancelled. Leaving Tyrion off for half a season would be foolish.

 

[ZeroRay]

Spoiler

I'd support this only if I were hoping the show would get cancelled. Leaving Tyrion off for half a season would be foolish.

ADWD

Spoiler

I'm hoping he has the meeting with Illyrio at the end of season 4. Episode 9 should obviously have the privy antics and the other climaxes of ASOS, making it one of the best TV episodes of all time. Maybe finish off season 4 with Tyrion's meeting, Janos's beheading and Bran's visions of the past.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

ADWD

Spoiler

I'm hoping he has the meeting with Illyrio at the end of season 4. Episode 9 should obviously have the privy antics and the other climaxes of ASOS, making it one of the best TV episodes of all time. Maybe finish off season 4 with Tyrion's meeting, Janos's beheading and Bran's visions of the past.

ASOS

Spoiler

Yeah, no way. Episode 9 will obviously be the battle at the Wall, with Episode 10 being Tyrion killing both Shae and Tywin.

 

[DrForester]

If season 4 doesn't end...

ASOS

Spoiler

with Tyrion walking out of the bathroom, tossing the crossbow onto the bed, and saying "Seems he doesn't shit gold", I will be disappointed. And I mean the very last shot of the season needs to be him waling away from Tywin's body

ASOS

Spoiler

Yeah, no way. Episode 9 will obviously be the battle at the Wall, with Episode 10 being Tyrion killing both Shae and Tywin.

ASOS

Spoiler

No way can they hold off the battle of the wall till episode 9. I expect the wall battle will be in the first episode or two. The rest of the S4 wall arc will be Thorn and Slynt trying to consolidate their power at the Wall, and S4 ending with Jon being named Lord Commander. I think the big thing for episode 9 is going to be Tyrion's trial, and The Mountain vs. Obeyrn.

 

[ZeroRay]

ASOS

Spoiler

Yeah, no way. Episode 9 will obviously be the battle at the Wall, with Episode 10 being Tyrion killing both Shae and Tywin.

ASOS

Spoiler

My timing may be wrong, but I believe the two biggest Wall skirmishes occur before the PW. Meaning they either delay it for one gigantic hour long episode with Stannis' saving the day, contrasting with the end of Blackwater, or they go big and have two big hour long events with the defense of the Wall and PW happen back to back in hour long episodes during the middle of the season. I want the latter, obviously.

Any way it goes, Season 4 will be legendary.

 

[Massa]

It is kinda ridiculous

I kinda don't get the purpose of a separate thread, catered to the book readers, but with all the book content spoilered?

The purpose of this thread is to keep people from the group that only read certain books from leaking into the no-book thread.

 

[Loofy]

It is kinda ridiculous

I kinda don't get the purpose of a separate thread, catered to the book readers, but with all the book content spoilered?

Some people who read the books havent finished the entire series. So they need some stuff tagged.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Finally caught Episode 6, the rerun.

ASOS

Spoiler

The Bastard of Bolton is absolutely PERFECT.

I could not have wished for a better portrayal.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

From the other thread:

Direwolves used to exist, you know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direwolf

Yup. So did wooly mammoths. That doesn't mean I want to see them charging the wall with white walkers on them you know?

[ASoS]

Spoiler

lol, well, it won't have white walkers on them, but he's in for a disappointment... xD And pfft mammoths are awesome, they better keep them in!

 

[Last Hearth]

Spoiler

Again, I'll state the show's major dilemma from the perspective of someone who usually watches shows instead of reading books.

Shows start with something that is true at the beginning, develop an underlying theme, and carry that theme through from the first episode to the last. Something that was true in the first episode has to be true in the last. Now, the first scene we see is Whitewalkers, so in that sense they are still on track.

However, ending the series with the Starks in minor roles undermines the typical structure of a show.

And I edited that part about Robb on the Iron throne. I know they've been fighting for independence, though I'm sure most show watchers if polled would say that Robb wants the Iron Throne.

I am not too worried about that.

Spoiler

In my mind there is almost no chance of the Starks in minor roles as the series ends. 5 of the top 7 POV in the series are Starks, and the last book in the series, before it was going to be called A Dream of Spring, was to be called A Time for Wolves.

 

[Speevy]

One thing I can't figure out is the dynamic of Brienne's loyalty. I've cut out any spoilers from the next few episodes, so this is stuff that we've seen.

I understand she was loyal to Renly, and became loyal to Catelyn after Renly died. However, she seems unconcerned with Catelyn's commitment to Robb or the cause of the north.

That's understandable to a certain extent. However, the crooked haggling going on between Roose and Jaime in this latest episode could have very easily put the Stark girls (as far as Catelyn knows) and Catelyn herself (being branded as a traitor by Robb Stark's company) in danger.

I was thinking during the whole "Jaime failing at dinner" scene that Brienne should run and tell Robb that Roose is trying to make a deal with Jaime. Is she just dense, or can she not leave?

 

[Last Hearth]

She can't leave. But in any case her loyalty is to her mission. Which is to get Jaime to KL safely. If Roose is assisting in that front, you can hardly expect her to object.

 

[Levi]

Did the writers of this show even pay attention when they made season one? The crux of the season one mystery, what gets Ned killed, is realizing that Cersei's blond children weren't Baratheon, because ALL Baratheons have black hair.

I give you Shireen Baratheon:

 

[narcosis219]

Males only I guess? Good point tho

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Maybe Selyse's powerful mustache genes override Baratheon genes... xD

 

[Dysun]

Cersei was right, Patchface is the father

 

[Speevy]

Did the writers of this show even pay attention when they made season one? The crux of the season one mystery, what gets Ned killed, is realizing that Cersei's blond children weren't Baratheon, because ALL Baratheons have black hair.

I give you Shireen Baratheon:

I'm wondering why with this fear of dragons and Targaryens they haven't executed this girl for having scales on her face.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Did the writers of this show even pay attention when they made season one? The crux of the season one mystery, what gets Ned killed, is realizing that Cersei's blond children weren't Baratheon, because ALL Baratheons have black hair.

I give you Shireen Baratheon:

That is a pretty silly oversight. But she is a minor character

 

[dubq]

Lannister's have essentially golden hair which is why the children are so suspect.. Shireens is more dirty blonde.. Similar to Selyse. It's hard to tell since the lighting is terrible. That being said I think you're reading way too much into it. I guess some people just need something to complain about..?

 

[Levi]

Lannister's have essentially golden hair which is why the children are so suspect.. Shireens is more dirty blonde.. Similar to Selyse. It's hard to tell since the lighting is terrible. That being said I think you're reading way too much into it. I guess some people just need something to complain about..?

Shireen should have black hair. Like every Baratheon. All of Robert's bastards, male and female, have black hair. It doesn't matter what color hair her mom has, because in ASOIAF/GoT the Baratheon black hair trait is dominant 100% of the time.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Lol good catch. Get it together, HBO.