ThisWreckage
Banned
I never got that feeling. He's a stoic, cold character. Humorless and untrustworthy. The actor has done a great job.
Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
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I never got that feeling. He's a stoic, cold character. Humorless and untrustworthy. The actor has done a great job.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
ASOS
How persuaded are you guys by that theory that Oberyn killed Tywin (well, was on his way to)?
See this link: http://boiledleather.com/post/24196234491/tywin-lannister-dead-man-shitting
Oberyn knew everything there was about poisoning and they had dinner together. It also makes sense he would aim to kill the man who "controlled" the Mountain and let him off his leash. And there was a huge emphasis on Tywin's super rotting corpse, to the point where it wasn't natural for corpses to rot that fast or badly. Tywin could have been poisoned, attempted to relieve himself (he was found on the shitter), which would have been impossible given the nature of the poison and got shot, which did relieve him and create the awful stench.
See this link: http://boiledleather.com/post/24196234491/tywin-lannister-dead-man-shitting
Oberyn knew everything there was about poisoning and they had dinner together. It also makes sense he would aim to kill the man who "controlled" the Mountain and let him off his leash. And there was a huge emphasis on Tywin's super rotting corpse, to the point where it wasn't natural for corpses to rot that fast or badly. Tywin could have been poisoned, attempted to relieve himself (he was found on the shitter), which would have been impossible given the nature of the poison and got shot, which did relieve him and create the awful stench.
ThisWreckage
Banned
It'll go over well with a lot of people that were pissed about recent events. But then again, the non book readers have bizarre taste when it comes to characters they love. I'm quite shocked so many of them love Dany, Robb, and Cat.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
And I wasn't trying to say that you were okay with that, either. I know that you clearly said you weren't okay with that concept in one of your previous posts.
However, one of my points was that you think that certain things shouldn't be that disturbing to show-only watchers, and you yourself aren't the kind of personality that gets too torn up about borderline spoiler territory bits of information. ("I've been spoiled on a few things but I don't raise a stink of it because I have to see exactly how it happens.")
While this may be true for you, this is not the case for a large number of show-only fans. Recent complaints by book readers may appear to be anal and unreasonable to you, but that does not cancel out the fact that the oftentimes careless and flippant talk about the books in the "NO BOOKS" thread does, in fact, ruin the experience for a lot of people.
If you can't see eye-to-eye on your point of view on "spoilers" and the point of view of "show-only" viewers, don't. Just understand that book discussion of most kinds in that thread is detrimental to others' experience and plain rude. It's unwelcome, and against the rules of the OP.
Surely, book readers have enough respect for their fellow forum members and fellow ASOIAF fans to allow them their space to enjoy the story in their media of choosing.
Moff
Member
ASOS
I dont remember the exact words, when this poison is described, but I thought the stench of tywins corpse makes this a very likely theory.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I missed that part of the backstory too. I felt bad for TV Mormont that he didn't get the opportunity to tell Sam that he forgives his son. That was a touching moment.
Perhaps they can work that angle in some other way in the future.
MoogleWizard
Member
Because they're portrayed as the only good guys on the show, along with Tyrion, though I never saw much love for Robb and Cat tbh. I find it more puzzling when someone loves Tywin, a one dimensional asshole that treats his children like shit, but hey that's 'badass'. But when Dany threatens some slave traders she's an arrogant bitch, this fandom is weird.
I don't think he did. They are skipping a lot of background information with Dany and Jorah's arc. They never really show his advances towards her and how he tries to keep any man away from her so her treatment of him would be more understandable, which makes her look like a jerk on the show. I was also hoping they'd have the talk between Dany and Barristan about Rhaegar while they were waiting for the guys to return from Yunkai. It would have been nice to finally explain that important part of Westerosi history and Dany' family a bit more but nothing. They also never go into her loneliness since Drogo died or her insecurity about her war tactics. The sacking of Yunkai was also really different, I guess to save money so they wouldn't have to show the battle but it's actually her that comes up with the plan for the sacking where on the show she just stands there like an ignorant idiot while her men do all the planning themselves. Dany is missing depth on the show, they haven't really handled her character well IMO.
Louis Cypher
Banned
wtf is the point of tagging
Have a show thread for show and then have this for book readers?
Why go through weird hoops?
Have a show thread for show and then have this for book readers?
Why go through weird hoops?
This is also a show thread. The one for book readers to talk about all the books is another thread. There are 3 threads.
Louis Cypher
Banned
This is also a show thread. The one for book readers to talk about all the books is another thread. There are 3 threads.
But I still don't understand
So the non spoiler thread is for episodes right? Who is this thread for? Why would non book readers come to this spoiler thread?
Because maybe I actually want to hear some differences between the book and the show without getting future events spoiled?
I don't want to know about things that haven't happened in the show yet, but hearing that Talisa is a show character and the book has a different character is interesting and doesn't bother me.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
male power fantasy
Louis Cypher
Banned
Like Dany isn't female power fantasy with all her girl power lines
Moff
Member
so, about next weeks episode
AOSOS[episode 10 preview].
AOSOS[episode 10 preview].
we see yara/asha in the preview, does that mean balon will die?
I am really excited to see this, because they used to flesh out and show things directly that were only hinted at in the books. we may see a faceless man killing balon greyjoy. and I would have tears of joy if it would be tom wlashiha, however illogical that would be
I am really excited to see this, because they used to flesh out and show things directly that were only hinted at in the books. we may see a faceless man killing balon greyjoy. and I would have tears of joy if it would be tom wlashiha, however illogical that would be
Louis Cypher
Banned
Everybody in the show is treated appropriate to their status roles and actions
Okay:
- NO-BOOK-SPOILER Thread: For discussion of the show only. Any comparisons, discussions, characters, etc are only within material from the show. No discussion of differences from the books, or how something was adapted.
- THIS Thread: For discussion of the show with people who are familiar with the books, but with spoiler tags for discussion of future events in the books because not everyone has read all the books yet. Comparisons between the books and the show in terms of changes and adaptation choices will be found here.
- BOOKS Thread: For discussion of the books, speculation of where things might go in future books, and bitching about how GRRM is a lazy NFL fan who posts on livejournal more than he works on writing the books.
I miss the single 'Ok nerds you win' thread. Things were so much simpler back then.This is also a show thread. The one for book readers to talk about all the books is another thread. There are 3 threads.
Robb marrying Jeyne out of duty was probably one of the worst aspects of his character and was poorly explained and written, Talisa is a much better lynchpin than Jeyne ever was.
Calamari41
41 > 38
In my opinion, they should stay in the non-spoiler thread until they are done. If you are interested enough in these books to be actively reading them and care about not being spoiled, then you can get through them in a matter of weeks. My mother read books 1-3 during the run of this season, for example. I got through Storm of Swords the first time during two plane flights.
Does the book thread mentioned earlier talk about the show at all? Because it would be interesting to be able to talk openly about stuff like (DwD)
how they will do Aegon, whether they will combine his story with Dany's, etc
Should be two threads: one for people who can openly talk about the book, and one for people who want to pretend there are no books. Anybody caught cross-posting can be assumed to be a book reader infiltrating the non-book thread and should be banned on sight, no questions asked. Then there's no weird Hatfield-McCoy dynamic with this show. If people who are in the middle of a decade+ old book series want to talk about it in the two weeks before they're finished reading, we should have a book club type thread where a chunk of chapters are discussed at a time or something.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I think we'll definitely see that happen next week but I hadn't considered having Jaqen involved. I think that'd be pretty cool.
Moff
Member
I dont agree
I think its probably the biggest and worst change from the book
with the starks its all about honor.
they're not blind, not dumb and not naive.
they just want to do the honorable thing.
its what killer both ned and robb. well book robb at least.
show robb didnt do that, show robb broke his vows simply because he wanted another woman.
book roob made a mistake, he slept with another woman.
now contrary to popular belief he did not break his vows with that, he could have still married the frey girl, no one would have cared, least of all walder frey.
but he put jeynes honor above his own and married her, thats why book roob broke his vows. because of honor. he made the honorable choice.
show robb just found another girl, and thats a bid and dumb change in my opinon. because I think its important that the starks are all about honor in a world full of lies and cruelty, and that this honor is their downfall.
thats not the case with show robb, he's just an oathbreaker.
I think its probably the biggest and worst change from the book
with the starks its all about honor.
they're not blind, not dumb and not naive.
they just want to do the honorable thing.
its what killer both ned and robb. well book robb at least.
show robb didnt do that, show robb broke his vows simply because he wanted another woman.
book roob made a mistake, he slept with another woman.
now contrary to popular belief he did not break his vows with that, he could have still married the frey girl, no one would have cared, least of all walder frey.
but he put jeynes honor above his own and married her, thats why book roob broke his vows. because of honor. he made the honorable choice.
show robb just found another girl, and thats a bid and dumb change in my opinon. because I think its important that the starks are all about honor in a world full of lies and cruelty, and that this honor is their downfall.
thats not the case with show robb, he's just an oathbreaker.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I think the intent was to have a book reader thread that didn't get ahead of the show, as a lot of people were in the middle of reading as the show got popular. But yeah, there should probably just be a spoiler and no- spoilers thread, and if you're in the middle of the books, just hurry up and finish.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Exactly. The show is going into its third year of "cultural phenomenon" status, and the last published book came out soon after the show originally aired. If it's taking you over two years to read these books, stay in the non-spoiler thread IMO.
I couldn't disagree more. Show Robb marries Talisa purely out of honor, not as Walder says because the ass was fat. Marrying someone out of a sense of duty just because you fucked them once has to be the worst excuse for getting an entire rebellion slaughtered of all time and really made me dislike Robb's character. It made him seem like a naive boy. Maybe that's what GRRM was going for, but to me it ruined the entire plotline.
At least with Talisa you get to see him developing an affection for her and resisting his affection (slightly). Of course, he's still just as dumb for marrying her and in the end he does it for the same reasons you describe above (honor, not wanting bastards, and the like) you just get to see an actual relationship with an actual woman. In the books you get to see Jeyne who is just a standin for whatever plot device GRRM wanted to use to kill Robb.
At least with Talisa you get to see him developing an affection for her and resisting his affection (slightly). Of course, he's still just as dumb for marrying her and in the end he does it for the same reasons you describe above (honor, not wanting bastards, and the like) you just get to see an actual relationship with an actual woman. In the books you get to see Jeyne who is just a standin for whatever plot device GRRM wanted to use to kill Robb.
cubicle47b
Member
It's not even close to being that simple. No one would be annoyed with Olenna if she used the power of her house in the same way Tywin does. Just like him she's highly intelligent, politically adept, experienced, and has all the power of her house behind her.
It's very easy to look at Dany skeptically. She gets her husband and unborn son killed, then lucks into the 3 most powerful weapons in the world. The way she acquires the the Unsullied and the Stormcrows requires a lot of suspension of disbelief too.
Louis Cypher
Banned
That was the role of powerless women.
Do you also forget all the peasant men and woman being run down like nothing all the time?
The men drafted into Robb's army, Lannister's army, etc.
It's more a function of class
Talisa was ogled in order to disrespect Robb
ASOS
A 'true Stark' (or Ned) wouldn't sleep with the girl in the first place. I never bought into this romantic idea that Robb broke his vows in an honorable way.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I haven't read any show spoilers, but I think it would be almost impossible establishing that in one episode unless it's presented differently than in the book, which would be a shame.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, next season should just be open spoilers for all books that have been released. The only spoilers should be show changes that have leaked. If only to eliminate most of this talk about spoilers.
And people who have read the books should just stay out of the non-book thread for the most part. Keep the list of people to PM, but there should be no talk of books there. If they're confused by something, let them be confused. Either the show will explain it somewhere down the road or they'll just have to deal with it.
cubicle47b
Member
The circumstances under which Robb slept with Jeyne make it understandable. He thought both his younger brothers had just been killed (by Theon of all people), had just been wounded in battle, and some pretty young girl was there to comfort him. People make mistakes under those kinds of circumstances. Stark honor made that mistake one of the biggest mistakes of his life.
Louis Cypher
Banned
That'd ruin it if it was done next ep
Also I keep forgetting book 3 was split
Shame we don't get some book 4 stuff for 2 years
BFIB
Member
Can someone here outline the main differences between the Red Wedding scene in the books and the show without being too spoilery? (non-book reader here) Id dont mind it being posted in here or a PM
Quoted from IGN:
Brynden 'Blackfish' Tully remained at Riverrun in the books while Robb Stark goes to The Twins. In the show, Brynden is at the Red Wedding but seems to have luckily escaped the slaughter while ducking out to relieve himself.
In the novel, there is a raucous drinking contest involving Jon Umber. The Greatjon is later subdued by eight men and held captive at the Twins afterwards.
In the books, Catelyn Stark internally remembers her bedding-- she was scarred and embarrassed when she was stripped. In the show she tells Bolton that Ned did not allow it, as he felt he might punch someone if he witnessed such an act. (This was probably added to compare with how Tyrion didn't have a beding ceremony.)
In the novels, Sandor Clegane, The Hound, is directed to the outer feast tents with his salted pork. Arya Stark remains with The Hound until they see Robb Stark's men being slaughtered. She is ridden down by the Hound and knocked unconscious before entering The Twins. In the show Arya ditches The Hound at the gate, slipping into The Twins.
In the books, Catelyn Stark takes Jinglebell hostage, one of Walder Frey's grandsons and a fool. In the show, Catelyn takes Walder Frey's wife hostage. Either way Walder Frey cared little for the lives of the hostages, and Catelyn's hostage is killed by Catelyn.
Catelyn Stark is driven mad when Robb Stark is killed in the books. She begins to bloodily gouge her face with her nails before her throat is cut. In the show she stands mute, shocked into silence, and is then killed.
In the novel, there is a raucous drinking contest involving Jon Umber. The Greatjon is later subdued by eight men and held captive at the Twins afterwards.
In the books, Catelyn Stark internally remembers her bedding-- she was scarred and embarrassed when she was stripped. In the show she tells Bolton that Ned did not allow it, as he felt he might punch someone if he witnessed such an act. (This was probably added to compare with how Tyrion didn't have a beding ceremony.)
In the novels, Sandor Clegane, The Hound, is directed to the outer feast tents with his salted pork. Arya Stark remains with The Hound until they see Robb Stark's men being slaughtered. She is ridden down by the Hound and knocked unconscious before entering The Twins. In the show Arya ditches The Hound at the gate, slipping into The Twins.
In the books, Catelyn Stark takes Jinglebell hostage, one of Walder Frey's grandsons and a fool. In the show, Catelyn takes Walder Frey's wife hostage. Either way Walder Frey cared little for the lives of the hostages, and Catelyn's hostage is killed by Catelyn.
Catelyn Stark is driven mad when Robb Stark is killed in the books. She begins to bloodily gouge her face with her nails before her throat is cut. In the show she stands mute, shocked into silence, and is then killed.
Moff
Member
why would anyone want that?
cubicle47b
Member
Can someone here outline the main differences between the Red Wedding scene in the books and the show without being too spoilery? (non-book reader here) Id dont mind it being posted in here or a PM
https://www.facebook.com/agameofthronesbooks
You can read the chapter for yourself here.
lol, wat? What about Jon Snow?
perfect
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Can someone here outline the main differences between the Red Wedding scene in the books and the show without being too spoilery? (non-book reader here) Id dont mind it being posted in here or a PM
I'll just put this in spoilers, but it only relates to the question you asked and is probably not exhaustive:
ASOS
Robb's wife is named Jeyne and not Talisa. She is from Westeros and the daughter of a minor house loyal to the Lannisters. Jeyne is not at the wedding, nor is she pregnant. In fact there was a conspiracy to keep her from getting pregnant by her family.
Robb's squire, Jeyne's brother, releases Grey Wind during the slaughter, and Grey Wind is able to do some damage before being put down.
Catelyn kills some idiot son of Walder Frey's rather than Frey's wife, this was one of the better changes.
The Blackfish was not at the wedding.
The Hound has to kill a few Freys trying to get Arya out of there. There was also a lame Arya fake-out death at the end of her Red Wedding chapter. Not having this was also a better change.
Catelyn goes completely insane before being killed. She thinks Bran, and Rickon have been killed, she knows Sansa has been married to Tyrion, and she's pretty sure Arya is dead.
Instead of Talisa in the show, a lot of focus is on several secondary characters getting killed who are not in the show.
Robb's squire, Jeyne's brother, releases Grey Wind during the slaughter, and Grey Wind is able to do some damage before being put down.
Catelyn kills some idiot son of Walder Frey's rather than Frey's wife, this was one of the better changes.
The Blackfish was not at the wedding.
The Hound has to kill a few Freys trying to get Arya out of there. There was also a lame Arya fake-out death at the end of her Red Wedding chapter. Not having this was also a better change.
Catelyn goes completely insane before being killed. She thinks Bran, and Rickon have been killed, she knows Sansa has been married to Tyrion, and she's pretty sure Arya is dead.
Instead of Talisa in the show, a lot of focus is on several secondary characters getting killed who are not in the show.
There are probably more, some that I'm forgetting and others I'm not just in case they show some more next Sunday.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Red Wedding Book Difference Spoiler
In the book it makes it more clear that they probably were going to take Cat hostage, as she was expected to go with the rest of the women to the bedding ceremony
No need when I have an army of willing book readers here
thanks a lot
I just read that and I haven't even touched the books. It's pretty crazy that even though some of the characters were different, a lot of the dialogue was word for word.
This post makes me think you truly don't understand the Starks at all and what point the show and Martin are trying to show us about them.
KingHenrik30
Member
Monocle
Member
(SERIES)
Do we know that Michelle Fairley is confirmed to return? I mean, it only makes sense for her to play Stoneheart, but all of the interviews where the cast talks about saying goodbye had me wondering. I hope it's safe to assume everyone was contractually obligated to pretend that this is her last season.
KingHenrik30
Member
[SERIES]
Yeah, the stone heart reveal is something that just can't be fucked with. I'm still wondering, if they don't show her in the next episode, how they will go about it. If she is part of the cast next year it will leak for sure. Maybe they will try to play it off like a flashback?
Edit: From a HuffPost inteview: ASOS
"People who've read the books tell me there's a chance you could reprise your role at some point in the future. Any truth to that?
I think you’re just going to have to keep watching and find out."
I think you’re just going to have to keep watching and find out."
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