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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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PhoenixDark
Banned
Kind of in awe that most of the reactions from book readers I've been reading online are so gung ho about how they pulled off the RW. To me, the end of Arya's POV section was the pivotal moment of the entire sequence and they whiffed it completely.
I've spent three seasons defending the show as something that should and can stand on its own merits, but the fact that they worked so hard to immaculately recreate so much and then stopped at the 99 yard line is so mystifying to me.
I really don't see why that matters, given the end result is the same: she gets knocked out. It's easier to do a fake out on paper than on screen; everyone would know she was alive the minute she hit the ground. I don't remember the last time I saw a convincing "fake out" on television or film.
I've shat on the show's handling of Arya for two seasons, but I saw nothing wrong with sunday's events.
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature is up on youtube now
Also...
[Series]Interesting to see that Michelle Fairley just booked a recurring role on Suits. Link. While something like this probably wouldn't preclude her returning as Lady Stoneheart, it does make me wonder how they're going to handle it moving forward. Could they just use a double for a lot of it? How much would she need to appear in order for it to be effective?
Series
Stoneheart is a recurring guest role at most, so it would be easy for her to do both. Conleth Hill/Varys is also on that show in the same capacity (recurring guest) according to your link.
I really don't see why that matters, given the end result is the same: she gets knocked out. It's easier to do a fake out on paper than on screen; everyone would know she was alive the minute she hit the ground. I don't remember the last time I saw a convincing "fake out" on television or film.
I've shat on the show's handling of Arya for two seasons, but I saw nothing wrong with sunday's events.
Yeah, of all the things they've dinged up with Arya's story, this one was reasonable restraint. I don't think that there is a quality way to pull the scene off (also, put me in the camp that didn't believe for a second Arya was dead on that "fake out"). That particular part, as has been mentioned in this thread I think, was the first (of my memory) of [series]
GRRM's rather awful cliff hanger "deaths".
Calamari41
41 > 38
lofl wait wait wait so people read "His axe took her in the back of the head." and didn't think she was dead????
Not even for one second. I never, ever, in a million years would have thought that the Arya scene was supposed to be a fake death.
cubicle47b
Member
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature is up on youtube now
Also...
[Series]Interesting to see that Michelle Fairley just booked a recurring role on Suits. Link. While something like this probably wouldn't preclude her returning as Lady Stoneheart, it does make me wonder how they're going to handle it moving forward. Could they just use a double for a lot of it? How much would she need to appear in order for it to be effective?
She's been in two scenes so far.
Cornballer
Member
SeriesStoneheart is a recurring guest role at most, so it would be easy for her to do both. Conleth Hill/Varys is also on that show in the same capacity (recurring guest) according to your link.
Ah, ok. Makes sense.She's been in two scenes so far.
I'm happy they didn't include the Arya fake out. I think they handled her scenes well. Anxious to see her family, elated to be so close, and then desperate when she knew something went horribly wrong.
SERIESI'm hoping they handle every other fake out the same way.
I couldn't agree more with you and everyone else who has said the same. After ASOS,
death became meaningless because almost every POV character had at least 1 fake out. Removing even just half of them will do nothing but improve the series.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I couldn't agree more with you and everyone else who has said the same. After ASOS,death became meaningless because almost every POV character had at least 1 fake out. Removing even just half of them will do nothing but improve the series.
When reading ADWD I had to roll my eyes at what Martin was doing.
Forsaken82
Member
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature is up on youtube now
Also...
[Series]Interesting to see that Michelle Fairley just booked a recurring role on Suits. Link. While something like this probably wouldn't preclude her returning as Lady Stoneheart, it does make me wonder how they're going to handle it moving forward. Could they just use a double for a lot of it? How much would she need to appear in order for it to be effective?
Doesn't need to be a major role to be honest. (series)
Her revival, Show her hanging a few freys here and there making her menacing enough. and then have her interactions with brienne before and after the hanging I just hope they don't cloak her completely in a hood though. Since she won't be speaking much, there is no real point to spending a lot of time with her beyond her book scenes
MiamiWesker
Member
Yeah I agree ADWD
the death fake out garbage was becoming way to obvious and stupid. It gets to the point where you don't expect anything. Jon gets stabbed *shrugs* he will be fine.
Doesn't need to be a major role to be honest. (series)Here revival, Show her hanging a few freys here and there making her menacing enough. and then have her interactions with brienne before and after the hanging I just hope they don't cloak her completely in a hood though. Since she won't be speaking much, there is no real point to spending a lot of time with her beyond her book scenes
Series
You assume that her show portrayal would be the same as her book portrayal. There is no way they would bring that actress back and have her barely speak.
cubicle47b
Member
I couldn't agree more with you and everyone else who has said the same. After ASOS,death became meaningless because almost every POV character had at least 1 fake out. Removing even just half of them will do nothing but improve the series.
I agree for the most part although I'm fine with hearing someone has died, especially when it serves a story purpose, like what happens with Davos in AFFC/ADWD or Ramsay's letter.
GordonHalfman
Member
[ASOS]
One interesting scene they missed out was the one where Robb argues with Cat about declaring John his heir. It's kind of a shame since I quite liked that scene. "Mother you forget. My father had four sons." But I guess it wouldn't have made sense since in this version his wife was pregnant. I had thought there being a letter floating around somewhere declaring John the king in the north would be a relevant plot point somewhere in the later books, but I suppose this means it can't be.
cubicle47b
Member
Yeah I agree ADWDthe death fake out garbage was becoming way to obvious and stupid. It gets to the point where you don't expect anything. Jon gets stabbed *shrugs* he will be fine.
Jon does die at the end of ADWD, though. He just won't stay dead. How he lives on in the short-term through Ghost is shown to us in the prologue and it's not really like any of the fakeout deaths.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I lost it. Congrats.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Jon does die at the end of ADWD, though. He just won't stay dead. How he lives on in the short-term through Ghost is shown to us in the prologue and it's not really like any of the fakeout deaths.
ADWD
This is an example of A Good Death. It is fulfilling the Azor Ahai prophecy. It is actually incredibly awesome and I can't wait to see what happens. Tyrion "dying" at the end of what seems like every single chapter, however, is an example of A Dumb Death.
Electric_ Cthulhu
Member
The buzz this show has created over the last three years is incredible. Even here in Germany every new episode is the thing to talk about on the next day. I had always hoped that the show would be well recieved but could never have imagined that it turns into this pop culture phenomenon.
I don't think this will diminish after the red wedding. People that are now angry with the show will eventually realize that it was one of the bravest and memorable moments in recent tv history and come crawling back till next sunday. As somebody mentioned before: the show is not fair, but so is life.
By the way: Hello everybody. I'm new.
I don't think this will diminish after the red wedding. People that are now angry with the show will eventually realize that it was one of the bravest and memorable moments in recent tv history and come crawling back till next sunday. As somebody mentioned before: the show is not fair, but so is life.
By the way: Hello everybody. I'm new.
cubicle47b
Member
Tyrion "dying" at the end of what seems like every single chapter, however, is an example of A Dumb Death.
I thought that only happened once, when he falls in the Rhoyne.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I thought that only happened once, when he falls in the Rhoyne.
Yup. And that chapter was amazing.
The actual fake out deaths are one of the worst things about the books.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I thought that only happened once, when he falls in the Rhoyne.
I guess I was remembering incorrectly.
cubicle47b
Member
I've read in the Episode 9 thread that there is a new character going to be introduced into the series that will kinda serve the same role that Robb did when Ned died. Is that true?
ASOS
Not really. Someone will show up (at some point) that will focus their vengeance on the Freys.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature is up on youtube now
Also...
[Series]Interesting to see that Michelle Fairley just booked a recurring role on Suits. Link. While something like this probably wouldn't preclude her returning as Lady Stoneheart, it does make me wonder how they're going to handle it moving forward. Could they just use a double for a lot of it? How much would she need to appear in order for it to be effective?
Series
Stoneheart has literally two scenes in all of the series; its going to be way easier too if they have the reveal either next week or just at the end of next season and given the chronological storytelling they probably will do in Seasons 5-6, she probably won't even be needed for a couple of years. Although now that I think about it, I think the audience would be really dissatisfied with the reveal of Stoneheart if she just didn't show up again for years.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Fake out deaths don't bother me. They're just a way to close out a chapter, it's unavoidable when you are writing from a character's perspective and something happens to them that would abruptly stop their stream of consciousness. Granted, it's different with ADWD
Jon Snow since its his last chapter in the book. But that's the cliffhanger and it could realistically go either way.
Cool thanks!ASOSNot really. Someone will show up (at some point) that will focus their vengeance on the Freys.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I've read in the Episode 9 thread that there is a new character going to be introduced into the series that will kinda serve the same role that Robb did when Ned died. Is that true?
...you're probably going to want to run far away before spoilers bro. Suffice to say as in chemistry, every action has a reaction, but that's all I can say without spoilers.
...you're probably going to want to run far away before spoilers bro. Suffice to say as in chemistry, every action has a reaction, but that's all I can say without spoilers.
Ya, just don't go in that thread anymore, the spoilers in there are mutated monstrosities that may or may not contain tumors made of future events from the books.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I've read in the Episode 9 thread that there is a new character going to be introduced into the series that will kinda serve the same role that Robb did when Ned died. Is that true?
Man, people need to stop asking questions that they don't want the answers to. You want us to tell you the answer to this?
Man, people need to stop asking questions that they don't want the answers to. You want us to tell you the answer to this?
People need to add that they don't actually want answers or something. And book readers also shouldn't answer questions that are going to probably be answered in the next episode.
ASOS
After the RW chapter, I asked myself, "Is Edmure dead, too?" but I didn't ask anyone or look it up, I just read on until it was answered. The viewers are likely just posting their thoughts and wondering what people hypothesize, not actually looking for concrete answers
SeriesStoneheart has literally two scenes in all of the series; its going to be way easier too if they have the reveal either next week or just at the end of next season and given the chronological storytelling they probably will do in Seasons 5-6, she probably won't even be needed for a couple of years. Although now that I think about it, I think the audience would be really dissatisfied with the reveal of Stoneheart if she just didn't show up again for years.
Series
If they reveal her, and I think they will, then they will probably sprinkle her in next season like they did with Theon and Ramsay this season. There are a lot of random Freys that she can hang along the way, could also show tension with the Brotherhood and what she has become/made them too.
Calamari41
41 > 38
People need to add that they don't actually want answers or something. And book readers also shouldn't answer questions that are going to probably be answered in the next episode.
ASOSAfter the RW chapter, I asked myself, "Is Edmure dead, too?" but I didn't ask anyone or look it up, I just read on until it was answered. The viewers are likely just posting their thoughts and wondering what people hypothesize, not actually looking for concrete answers
This is not the thread to ask vague questions, post your thoughts, and hypothesize, though. We are allowed to respond, albeit in spoilers. But there is a big difference between responding with (ASOS)
Yes somebody comes to take the mantle from Robb
Yes Cat is resurrected by Beric and leads the Brotherhood in a ruthless quest to kill everybody involved with the Red Wedding.
...you're probably going to want to run far away before spoilers bro. Suffice to say as in chemistry, every action has a reaction, but that's all I can say without spoilers.
Man, people need to stop asking questions that they don't want the answers to. You want us to tell you the answer to this?
Well i was really only looking for a yes or no answer which i pretty much got. Didn't wanna be holding out hope for something that might never happen.
Yeah I'll probably avoid it. I thought it was just gonna be talk about episode 9 but it got much bigger.Ya, just don't go in that thread anymore, the spoilers in there are mutated monstrosities that may or may not contain tumors made of future events from the books.
This is not the thread to ask vague questions, post your thoughts, and hypothesize, though. We are allowed to respond, albeit in spoilers. But there is a big difference between responding with (ASOS)and responding with (ASOS, don't read this one if you haven't read the book all the way)Yes somebody comes to take the mantle from Robb. As far as I understand from the thread's rules, both of those spoiled replies would be allowed in direct response to his question.Yes Cat is resurrected by Beric and leads the Brotherhood in a ruthless quest to kill everybody involved with the Red Wedding.
Oh, yeah, I agree about asking questions about the future in this thread. I didn't see the guy until after I posted.
I was referring to book people answering questions about the future posted in the non-book/episode 9 reaction thread.
SeriesIf they reveal her, and I think they will, then they will probably sprinkle her in next season like they did with Theon and Ramsay this season. There are a lot of random Freys that she can hang along the way, could also show tension with the Brotherhood and what she has become/made them too.
Exactly this. People need to remember that the show runners are no strangers to beefing up content for characters that were otherwise underused in the books. SERIES~
Gendry has already appeared/done much more than he ever did in the books. So to have an increased role for Stoneheart
Exactly this. People need to remember that the show runners are no strangers to beefing up content for characters that were otherwise underused in the books. SERIES~would not surprise me at all.Gendry has already appeared/done much more than he ever did in the books. So to have an increased role for Stoneheart
Series
They've played up the resurrection of Dondarion much more in the the show than in the books and have even made Thoros and Melisandre cross paths and talk about it so it wouldn't be out of place at all for them to go through all of Season 4 with some mysterious new head of the Brotherhood and then at the END of the season reveal that it's Lady Stoneheart/Cat... but that seems a bit too cliched for this show.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
ASOS/AFFC
The series follows a chronological order and omits flashbacks. Unless everything is revealed through exposition only (doubtful), then a Stoneheart reveal in this next episode or VERY early in Season 4 is likely.
Catelyn is only dead for 3 days. If they do reveal her in this way then it's likely they will giver her extended screen time like they have with Robb, Theon and Gendry. I think having her show up in various parts of Seasons 4 and 5 killing Freys, it will do a lot to give viewers some hope that they are getting what's coming to them.
They are not going to ignore the Brotherhood in Season 4 after spending so much time with them this year...so unless they keep Stoneheart's identity a secret until a later reveal, there's not much they can do but have her show up in the next few episodes. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
Despite being previously opposed to it I think it makes the most sense to close the season with the Stoneheart reveal. Especially after seeing the reaction to the last episode play out the way it has.
Catelyn is only dead for 3 days. If they do reveal her in this way then it's likely they will giver her extended screen time like they have with Robb, Theon and Gendry. I think having her show up in various parts of Seasons 4 and 5 killing Freys, it will do a lot to give viewers some hope that they are getting what's coming to them.
They are not going to ignore the Brotherhood in Season 4 after spending so much time with them this year...so unless they keep Stoneheart's identity a secret until a later reveal, there's not much they can do but have her show up in the next few episodes. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
Despite being previously opposed to it I think it makes the most sense to close the season with the Stoneheart reveal. Especially after seeing the reaction to the last episode play out the way it has.
Latvian Hitman
Member
SeriesThey've played up the resurrection of Dondarion much more in the the show than in the books and have even made Thoros and Melisandre cross paths and talk about it so it wouldn't be out of place at all for them to go through all of Season 4 with some mysterious new head of the Brotherhood and then at the END of the season reveal that it's Lady Stoneheart/Cat... but that seems a bit too cliched for this show.
Plus,
Series
They're not going to be able to keep it a secret if Michelle Fairley is showing up on set this summer to shoot Stoneheart stuff for S4. The press will blow their cover on this thing. This is the main reason I'm expecting a reveal in the S3 finale.
Blue Ninja
Member
Man, that [spoiler for next episode]
-track on the soundtrack is amazing. Can't wait to see it play next episode.
"Mhysa"
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Plus,
SeriesThey're not going to be able to keep it a secret if Michelle Fairley is showing up on set this summer to shoot Stoneheart stuff for S4. The press will blow their cover on this thing. This is the main reason I'm expecting a reveal in the S3 finale.
Not really a spoiler
I don't think that makes any sense. It would take less than 20 seconds to figure out the rough plotline of the show from now until Season 6. I don't see how someone could possibly be looking for behind the scenes stuff of future episodes while simultaneously attempting to avoid book spoilers.
Man, that [spoiler for next episode]-track on the soundtrack is amazing. Can't wait to see it play next episode."Mhysa"
Is the soundtrack out yet? *rushes to itunes*
EDIT: Oh damn, it's out today! Sweet! *buys*
Calamari41
41 > 38
I don't think that makes any sense. It would take less than 20 seconds to figure out the rough plotline of the show from now until Season 6.
Yeah, why would a reporter go all Woodward and Bernstein to break the case when they can just crack open a 13 year old book instead?
Edit: added spoiler tags because you did!
cubicle47b
Member
Man, that [spoiler for next episode]-track on the soundtrack is amazing. Can't wait to see it play next episode."Mhysa"
It's telling that it contains the main theme of the show.
That was the best adaptation decision they have made on this show so far. It's been a pretty middling adaptation with a lot of poor choices, but here they made the right call. The Arya fakeout was crap in the books, and the decision to ignore it completely was the right call.
Agreed.
Even reading it in the book I didn't even for a second think she was dead. It wouldn't have made any sense. What would the Hound even gain by killing her? And if he really was trying to kill her, then he could have just let her run into the Twins and be done with her. Someone probably would have killed her there after she would have most likely gone into a rage when she saw/found out what happened.
Forsaken82
Member
SeriesYou assume that her show portrayal would be the same as her book portrayal. There is no way they would bring that actress back and have her barely speak.
I don't agree. But that is the point of opinions. (series)
only reason it wouldn't make sense to bring her back for a non speaking/small speaking role would be if her role was significantly expanded. As of right now there is no reason to expand her role beyond a handful of key scenes that can easily be scattered through out the next few seasons.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Not really a spoilerI don't think that makes any sense. It would take less than 20 seconds to figure out the rough plotline of the show from now until Season 6. I don't see how someone could possibly be looking for behind the scenes stuff of future episodes while simultaneously attempting to avoid book spoilers.
Yeah, why would a reporter go all Woodward and Bernstein to break the case when they can just crack open a 13 year old book instead?
Edit: added spoiler tags because you did!
Series
I'm not saying they're going to spoil Stoneheart the book character. What I'm saying is that if Fairley is showing up on set this summer, mainstream entertainment media is going to start publishing articles about it. "Cat Really Not Dead?", "Lady Stark Lives!", etc. A lot of casuals are going to wind up knowing she's back, whether they know about Stoneheart or not.
I don't agree. But that is the point of opinions. (series)only reason it wouldn't make sense to bring her back for a non speaking/small speaking role would be if her role was significantly expanded. As of right now there is no reason to expand her role beyond a handful of key scenes that can easily be scattered through out the next few seasons.
Series
There's lots of potential with the Stoneheart story if they play it correctly, and with the prominence that the Brotherhood had in this season it would make a lot of sense to see them again next season ESPECIALLY if they show Thoros finding her in the river next week. Remember the next episode is called 'Mother' and they may use it to mean both Dany AND Cat.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
The only book to show change that upsets me is [ASOS]
The fact that because the Tickler's dead already, Arya won't be able to do her awesome inn scene. I mean they could do it with another character besides the Tickler, but it's just not the same.
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