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[MiguelItUp]

It's a "mistake" for those that want it to be a mistake. There have been plenty of devs (albeit indie and adjacent for the most part) that have said it was a good thing for them, that it helped them, etc.

If anything was/is a mistake it's a lot of game development practices these days as a whole IMO. Or rather, some questionable choices Microsoft/Xbox has made. Especially with all the layoffs as they continue to pocket more money.

I legit think from a business/consumer perspective it was a very smart move. Especially for consumers. Maybe it was their "Hail Mary", who knows? But there are people that clearly use Game Pass and enjoy it, and some who don't.

There's no debate to be had. If Game Pass was sustainable it would have been the primary delivery model since the 360/PS3/Wii era.

Right, but you can also say that if it wasn't sustainable, they would've gotten rid of it a long time ago rather than leaning harder into it.

I think the reality is that until we can get some actual evidence and physical numbers, there's nothing telling us if it truly IS a "failure." The things happening at Microsoft that people are associating with Game Pass could just be Microsoft/Xbox making poor decisions. Or shit, maybe it IS Game Pass, but the thing is is no one knows for sure. Unless we're actually told and shown otherwise from a reputable source the same song and dance is going to happen over and over again.

 

[Fbh]

I mean for most people I think gamepass is great and offers a lot of value.
I still don't get how it works as a sustainable business model in the long run:

Subscribe for like $12
Play doom the dark ages and couple other things
Unsubscribe and MS even offers to reimburse the money

 

[Gonzito]

I think it's probably the single greatest part of this whole generation.

It addresses almost every single thing wrong with current gaming trends. Consumers can jump in for less, and we're seeing price become a major barrier to young people. Consumers can help support more niche and experimental curated titles that would be overlooked at retail. Consumers get more for less. Devs get large player bases for exposure for new IP, upsell opportunities for multiplayer games like FBC and Rematch, both of which are fun and stand zero chance of survival at retail and provide a shared library for friends to actually play multiplayer games. It's entirely optional and games are not exclusive to the subs. It encourages ownership with discounts. Gamepass is the only thing that kept Xbox in the game at all from 2021 - 2023. Now their software pipeline is really flexing and it'll just fill out GP even more. It's literally outliving the hardware. It's a giant lifeline for indies, AA, and experimental games - all the best things in gaming. Devaluing games and providing price competition is just the icing on top for consumers who see nothing but constant price increases with the retail model, and soon the full death of Gamefly and physical rentals.

Only flaw I can see is that it's not on PlayStation so people will shit on it.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Nope Nintendo games and few sony single players continue with high quality.

TLOU 2, Spider-man 2, Ragnarok, Horizon forbidden west? I mean cmon, that's downward trend, all sequels I don't even think I want to buy even though I own the first one of each. Almost entire gen at naughty dog wasted.

Nintendo is Nintendo, their own little bubble, I'll give you that. But then if we go lower fidelity games, Double Fine, InXile and Obsidian have games coming up that fill nicely that space. Doublefine's keeper is likely to be more fun than most tripuul aayy games out there but it won't set the world on fire in sales. I don't see doublefine, Obsidian or InXile changing as a way the studio works because of gamepass.

Capcom is taking a hit with Dragon dogma 2 & Monster hunter wilds, not pre-ordering any of their future games for a long time.

 

[BacklashWave534]

Paying less for games bad.

You are renting them. Might as well just get Gamefly so you can get games on everything.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

If the games had resonated with people, it would be a success.

 

[WoJ]

Gamepass has always been crap and bad for Microsoft. It just took some people longer to realize it.

 

[Rush2112]

Oh so NOW people are going to wake up.

 

[LordOcidax]

As a customer I love it but I admit that its obviously not at all sustainable for Microsoft and they are pivoting to somehow make it make money.

Don't worry about Microsoft finances, they make billions on other things. They are going to be Ok.

 

[Saber]

Water is wet.
It devaluates the value people have on games. Why buying games when they can rest their lazy ass and wait to come?
Not only that, but also teachs them to not buy games at all. Even the ones they are supposed to be hyped for.

 

[owandeseis]

You can have Gamepass and have good selling games, there's Expedition 33 or Oblivion recently.

But you can also greenlight games absolutely nobody asked for like South of Midnight, Avowed (remember what the game was supposed to be and had people hyped about vs what it ended up being?), Hellblade 2, a 80$, 10 hour long campaign Doom with no MP...

And the next game coming from MS is a walking simulator where you are a walking lighthouse, who knows, it might end up exploding in popularity

 

[Pop]

Great for consumers when the price was reasonable. Not much anymore

Absolutely dogshit for companies. This was always obvious

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Those of us with brains have been saying this for years but people kept trying to hush us. It's painfully obvious that GP is a terrible idea for gaming.


Making games and playing games is a significantly bigger investment than making cheap TV shows that can be binge watched in a weekend. Games cost way more money to make than TV shows and gamers don't go through games like they go through TV shows. Yea, some hardcore gamers like us play a multitude of games in a year but majority of gamers buy a handful of games and end up spending a whole year playing one or two games. They have zero interest in a gaming subscription service because they don't play that many games in a year. Microsoft are idiots thinking they can get casual gamers who only play Fortnite/Madden/COD/GTA to spend hundreds of dollars a year to play a bunch of games they've never heard of on a subscription service when buying their games or playing them for free like in the case of Fortnite is much cheaper.

There aren't enough hardcore gamers subscribed to GamePass to keep it sustainable especially as the cost of making AAA games has been rising over the years. A subscription service like GamePass should compliment your gaming business not be the center of it. Sony was smart to make PS Plus a part of their gaming distribution and not the pillar of their entire gaming brand. MS were idiots and are now paying for their mistakes.

 

[Skifi28]

Not much to debate anymore, the writting is on the wall.

 

[Judge Magister]

You are renting them. Might as well just get Gamefly so you can get games on everything.

Nailed it! adamsapple is the only right person on this site.

 

[Skifi28]

Those of us with brains have been saying this for years but people kept trying to hush us. It's painfully obvious that GP is a terrible idea for gaming.

Yeah, all these debates over the years about its sustainability. Who would have ever thought!

 

[Thanati]

Great for consumers.

Terrible for developers.

As it's terrible for developers, it will become terrible for consumers as studios are shut down.

 

[kaizenkko]

Paying less for games is great, but the fact that Microsoft refuses to show real evidence of the service's profitability suggests that it's not a sustainable model.

 

[Moses85]

Microsoft becoming a console manufacturer was a mistake.

 

[LordOcidax]

Great for consumers.

Terrible for developers.

As it's terrible for developers, it will become terrible for consumers as studios are shut down.

Devs are going bankrupt without being on GP… And way before GP exits.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hell no… I am playing all the Microsoft games for cheap.

And this is why they're cancelling them.

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

If GP killed Xbox, as an Xbox hater, I love GP.

I´m curious...are you Sonyer? Because i´ve seen you also hate Nintendo...But love Sega, except for Dreamcast. What are you?

 

[playbignbox]

Don't worry about Microsoft finances, they make billions on other things. They are going to be Ok.

Yeah, I wonder if everything people buy/rent cheaply makes them think "is it really profitable for them?" lol

Last week, people had a great time buying games for a few dollars on Steam, very cheap, but no one cares how healthy that is for full-price sales in the industry... but that's okay, of course.

 

[analog_future]

My guess is Microsoft is going to slowly "kill" Game Pass by continuing to raise the price of the service until it doesn't make sense to 95% of customers. It'll still be around but it'll get to the point where people would rather just pay for games outright.

 

[LordOcidax]

And this is why they're cancelling them.

Sony doesn't have games on GP and are cancelling games… I fail to see the relation with GP.

 

[Tg89]

Anyone with a brain realized this. It's too bad some dumbasses didn't because "buh buh phil said it's sustainable".

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

Not necessarily. It´s a mistake for us "traditional" gamers, but they are basicially aiming to be the "Netflix" of gaming, so that, of course, includes bring Xbox gamepass to any device possible, incluiding the competition. Reality is, Xbox as we know it probably is dying with Series consoles.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony doesn't have games on GP and are cancelling games… I fail to see the relation with GP.

But, what about SonyToo™ ?

When they cancel legacy IPs and not some nuTrash we all celebrated, holla back at us. I'll dunk on them as well.

 

[LordOcidax]

Yeah, I wonder if everything people buy/rent cheaply makes them think "is it really profitable for them?" lol

Last week, people had a great time buying games for a few dollars on Steam, very cheap, but no one cares how healthy that is for full-price sales in the industry... but that's okay, of course.

I see this more like… If i Pay full price for the game in my console you have to do the same on your console.

 

[LordOcidax]

But, what about SonyToo™ ?

When they cancel major IPs and not some nuTrash, holla back at us. I'll dunk on them as well.

I am just pointing out that games cancellation is not a exclusive issue for games available on GP…

 

[Tommi84]

Paying less to RENT games bad.

Here, fixed it for you

 

[kruis]

Also you can throw a big movie from 20 years ago on a streaming service and people will watch it. Nobody except an insignificant amount of nerds is gonna play a game from 20 years ago unless they are remade.

People usually focus on brand new shows but the biggest hits on streaming channels are actually reruns. A couple of years ago there was a bidding war between streaming services who could license Friends. HBO Max paid $425 million for the streaming rights for five years.

A good portion of many streaming channels are cheaply made true crime documentaries and reality shows. Those shows cost nothing to make but keep a large section of the paying audience satisfied. The gaming equivalent would be small indie games, but their appeal is much more limited.

 

[Bernardougf]

With all the recent bad news studio closures, layoffs, and underwhelming releases it's becoming clear to me that gamepass might be Xbox's death sentence. Subscription models work for movies and TV because content is cheaper and quicker to produce. Games are a different beast though, they take years and hundreds of millions to develop.

Microsoft's gamepass strategy doesn't seem sustainable long term. We're seeing a constant declining in quality of their releases and unless a miracle happens, this could be the beginning of the end for Xbox as we know it

Lets have a healthy debate papitos

Training your audience to not buy your products must be the stupid idea I ever heard

 

[TintoConCasera]

Sorry papi but nah, not at all. GP might be better or worse but it does have 0 to do with all the shit that's going on today.

Bad studio management and bad hiring practices. Those are the nails in the coffin.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I am just pointing out that games cancellation is not a exclusive issue for games available on GP…

It's exclusively why this is happening for MS, however.

You can't have mismanaged shit baking for 7+ years while pushing a service that's retracted your sales and stagnant on growth, one that needs to pump out content regularly.

They placed their bets for the "Netflix of Gaming™" and that hasn't panned out.

 

[Soren01]

On the contrary, it's one of the few decent things Microsoft has done

 

[Buggy Loop]

Don't worry about Microsoft finances, they make billions on other things. They are going to be Ok.

Exactly

Gamepass or not probably has minor impact. If they were chasing only the cinematic hollywood wannabe blockbusters you wouldn't see Double Fine's Keeper even announced, or why even buy such a studio to begin with if that's the only thing you chase.

There's games that take wrong turns, studios and directors who are lost in development hell, leeches keeping a good paying job from a publisher's softness. The problem at Microsoft is DELIVERY. Laura Fryers nailed it when she talked about Obsidian. It might not set the world on fire in sales but they DELIVER.

Perfect Dark 7 years

Zenimax MMO 7 years.

These games should have been cut off a long time ago if the vertical slice was not even that good to begin with. Zenimax's case it wasn't Microsoft's decision to start the project to begin with just like Redfall & Fallout 76 was Zenimax's attemps at GAAS.

What does Gamepass have to do with the above cancellations?

Devs are going bankrupt without being on GP… And way before GP exits.

And voila

Reminder that gamers are not exactly shiny examples of giving good games always a success story.

Shall we look at the graveyard of immersive sim games?

 

[LordOcidax]

It's exclusively why this is happening for MS, however.

You can't have mismanaged shit baking for 7+ years while pushing a service that's retracted your sales and stagnant on growth, one that needs to pump out content regularly.

Why are some of you so worried about Microsoft finances?

 

[SilentSpecter]

That's what you think.

He's right. Game Pass saved me a ton of money.

Over the past few months alone I played The Alters, South of Midnight, Persona 3 Reload, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, Doom: The Dark Ages, Avowed, Ninja Gaiden 2: Black, and Shady Part of Me - all through Game Pass.

I spent around $27.69 total for that subscription, and I played most of these games on day one. Now go ahead and do the math: how much would I have paid if I bought all of these games separately at launch? Probably hundreds of dollars.

 

[Topher]

Don't worry about Microsoft finances, they make billions on other things. They are going to be Ok.

Those other things have nothing to do with Xbox. Is Xbox going to be ok? That's what you should be asking.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Great value. I'll be coming up to 6 years of GPU. I always subbed to Xbox Gold since 360 days. The GPU top up promos cost me a grand total of about $25 incremental cost total across 6 years. Got day one games and even played MLB The Show a couple years ago when it came to GP.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are some of you so worried about Microsoft finances?

Go gaslight a wall.

This is an enthusiast forum where NPD was one of its main drivers and staples. SaleGaf has always been a thing, especially for core people who are invested in ecosystems and the like.

"Why are people worried about an athletes stats, hurr durr." One of the world's many mysteries.

 

[Roman Empire]

I'd say the price value is good for those who have no gaming collection. You rent a whole library of games for relatively cheap, but you have no ownership or control of when said games get "returned". For that, the service is spectacular.

On the other hand, we knew way back then that this trend would condition gamers to get comfortable not buying games and devaluing a single purchase in favor of renting said games. Even someone as stupid as Bobby Kotick said that way before Microsoft bought Activision-Blizzard-King. In my case, Gamepass is not essential at all as I have a huge library of backlog games from previous generations on Steam (plus emulators for all things), and a lot of PS4/PS5 titles that I bought throughout the years. I do use Gamepass on PC, but if it went *poof* right now, I wouldn't have missed it to be all honest.

I do objectively think Gamepass hurts more than it provides, but it is all matter of perspective and which side of the fence you are on. For someone who has nothing, the service is a steal. For someone with a long list of games at their disposal, it is just another nice addition that doesn't make much of a difference.

 

[LordOcidax]

Those other things have nothing to do with Xbox. Is Xbox going to be ok? That's what you should be asking.

Xbox division is going to be ok too.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Paying more for owning nothing less for bad games bad.

Fixed

 

[Kacho]

Hell no… I am playing all the Microsoft games for cheap.

 

[Topher]

Xbox division is going to be ok too.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

He's right. Game Pass saved me a ton of money.

Over the past few months alone I played The Alters, South of Midnight, Persona 3 Reload, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, Doom: The Dark Ages, Avowed, Ninja Gaiden 2: Black, and Shady Part of Me - all through Game Pass.

I spent around $27.69 total for that subscription, and I played most of these games on day one. Now go ahead and do the math: how much would I have paid if I bought all of these games separately at launch? Probably hundreds of dollars.

.... wait for a sale.

 

[LordOcidax]

For me as a consumer is super fine…

 

[ChoosableOne]

Blizzard/Activision acquisition was the biggest mistake.

The girls behind Phil had figured it out but he didn't listen.