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Gaming Journalism |OT| May contain trace amounts of games. Or journalism.
Akuza89
Member
I don't think it's just that "corporations come first"
they are numb to anything that seems to remotely make any sense.
in this example with the new diablo... they could have done PC AND phone releases and no one would have cared, but it's their lack of care for the fandom that makes people get annoyed.
They don't seem to get that fans = money, not always, but if the player base is there, which it always has been for diablo then they should listen to them.
they are numb to anything that seems to remotely make any sense.
in this example with the new diablo... they could have done PC AND phone releases and no one would have cared, but it's their lack of care for the fandom that makes people get annoyed.
They don't seem to get that fans = money, not always, but if the player base is there, which it always has been for diablo then they should listen to them.
chilleverest
Member
Thanks for my daily dose of rage, modern day gaming medias.
Edit. There was a time when i felt bad for Kotaku as they were getting guzumped by Hogan.
Edit. There was a time when i felt bad for Kotaku as they were getting guzumped by Hogan.
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Nymphae
Banned
I was reading about the Wind Waker "controversy" last night. Back when gamers expected a realistic Zelda and got WW, people complained (there was a boycott campaign and while social media wasn't a thing, there were many angry message board posts) , and the game was pejoratively dubbed "Cellda" by many fans.
But you know, I don't remember games journalists at the time going to bat this hard for the corporation that feeds them. EGM had an editor debate about the new direction in the magazine, some said it was cool, some said "it's just not Zelda." The journalists certainly weren't telling their audience to "fuck right off" for their opinions.
I guess Jason would say it's less the opinion than the over the top entitled reactions (seriously, guys, he understands why you might not like it! But your organised twitter harassment campaign must end!!).
I'd say the solution for that is to disengage with social media, but no one is capable of that. Pre social media internet, the WW controversy didn't work people up into raging furies. Social media is cancer.
But you know, I don't remember games journalists at the time going to bat this hard for the corporation that feeds them. EGM had an editor debate about the new direction in the magazine, some said it was cool, some said "it's just not Zelda." The journalists certainly weren't telling their audience to "fuck right off" for their opinions.
I guess Jason would say it's less the opinion than the over the top entitled reactions (seriously, guys, he understands why you might not like it! But your organised twitter harassment campaign must end!!).
I'd say the solution for that is to disengage with social media, but no one is capable of that. Pre social media internet, the WW controversy didn't work people up into raging furies. Social media is cancer.
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Dr. Claus
Banned
Back then, we had people who actually cared about games and they were the journalists. Now we have failures who couldn't make it in any other field so they came here. People like Austin Walker, Patrick Klepek, and Jason Schreier have come here to act like petty infants.
FranXico
Member
Note that the journalist in question has once said "objectiveness is a silly thing to strive for".
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I laugh at games "journalists" being protective of developers' feelings, I mean how do they think it feels when they hand out shitty, negative reviews? Is that a special moment when its alright to dismiss in most cases years of work because it didn't click for them?
To me it seems like they are cherry-picking moments when its politic to play nice, and hence just self-serving bullshit masquerading as empathy.
To me it seems like they are cherry-picking moments when its politic to play nice, and hence just self-serving bullshit masquerading as empathy.
joe_zazen
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The Bloody-Nine
Member
Here I was thinking I paid actual money for these products. Turns out these modern day saints are spending their lives trying to entertain me. I stand corrected
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
On boi, the fanbase is so mistaken, but hold on, Will Powers will guide all of you kids so you know what you really want.
I get that bullshit like this is the daily bread of PR guys, but c'mon.
I remember meeting him at Sony San Diego Studios about a year after that Tester show. Arrogant bloke at the time.
Stuart360
Member
I hate most of the gaming media anyway. They are always kissing studios arses to get those freebies, and party invites, while taking the piss out of common gamers.
Also i dont know if thats the real Keanu, but i did see an interview a few years ago where he said he spends a lot of his free time gaming.
Also i dont know if thats the real Keanu, but i did see an interview a few years ago where he said he spends a lot of his free time gaming.
Skyn3t
Banned
Your work/were working in the industry,
DeepEnigma
?
DeepEnigma
?
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Petrae
Member
“Embarrass my friends, and you deal with me.”
It’s no secret that gaming press members are way too close to industry personnel, to the point of being friends. Friends protect friends— and that ruins the whole thing. You can’t be impartial, you can’t even attempt to understand the other side of an argument when your friend is on one side.
And that’s the problem. There’s no neutrality, no impartiality. The video game industry and the gaming press have a very friendly, close relationship. This is not ideal. In fact, it shouldn’t be acceptable at best and a conflict of interest at worst.
The good news is that traditional gaming press is largely irrelevant now. YouTube and Twitch personalities have more influence, and generally don’t treat their viewers like pieces of shit. The last vestiges of traditional games press have become bitter and angry in their desperation, as they cling to whatever relevance they have left. They’re easy to ignore. Stop following them on social media. Stop reading their toxic and insulting bullshit. Don’t parrot it anywhere. Once people stop reading it and engagement drops enough, that will be worse than any complaining that we can do. They’ll be forced to either pivot or find another career.
It’s no secret that gaming press members are way too close to industry personnel, to the point of being friends. Friends protect friends— and that ruins the whole thing. You can’t be impartial, you can’t even attempt to understand the other side of an argument when your friend is on one side.
And that’s the problem. There’s no neutrality, no impartiality. The video game industry and the gaming press have a very friendly, close relationship. This is not ideal. In fact, it shouldn’t be acceptable at best and a conflict of interest at worst.
The good news is that traditional gaming press is largely irrelevant now. YouTube and Twitch personalities have more influence, and generally don’t treat their viewers like pieces of shit. The last vestiges of traditional games press have become bitter and angry in their desperation, as they cling to whatever relevance they have left. They’re easy to ignore. Stop following them on social media. Stop reading their toxic and insulting bullshit. Don’t parrot it anywhere. Once people stop reading it and engagement drops enough, that will be worse than any complaining that we can do. They’ll be forced to either pivot or find another career.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Heh, I was just writing something similar when your post popped up. They know they're mostly irrelevant now, really comes off as desperation at this point with them salty and lashing out at the people who stopped giving a damn at what they had to say.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Your work/were working in the industry,
I done some projects. I do not work in it currently, no.
Fbh
Gold Member
For people that hate a certain type of gaming journalism so much some of you sure seem to spend a ton of time on Kotaku and Polygon .
Every single time one of these threads shows up it's about one of 3 sites and one of 10 people
Who even is this guy?.
All I could figure out from his Twitter account is that he works for some PR firm
Why are we expecting someone who works in PR to take a hard stance against a company?. And why is he now posted everywhere as some representative of gaming media ?
Every single time one of these threads shows up it's about one of 3 sites and one of 10 people
On boi, the fanbase is so mistaken, but hold on, Will Powers will guide all of you kids so you know what you really want.
I get that bullshit like this is the daily bread of PR guys, but c'mon.
Who even is this guy?.
All I could figure out from his Twitter account is that he works for some PR firm
Why are we expecting someone who works in PR to take a hard stance against a company?. And why is he now posted everywhere as some representative of gaming media ?
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Saint Boot
Banned
Remember a time before the internet? When us gamers did not have the ability to hate on each other over long distances, and could instead play video games with people we really knew in life, instead of complete strangers? Remember a time from before the alt right V the Left? before the times of sjw's V anti sjws? before jack thompson, anita sarkeesian, brianna wu, laci greene, zoe quinn, brian mcintosh, gamergate, the mary sue, their fans and their haters? before the dark times. before the empire. pepperridge farms remembers. I miss those days. When gaming was actually about gaming, not all this extra S***.
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Shai-Tan
Banned
Game journalists are just people like everyone else. You're free to disagree with them. Some of those reactions about Diablo and reactions to reactions like this are wrapped up in an oppositional identity steeped in an unhealthy denigration of what it labels the other. There are constructive ways to talk about the issue like Jon Ronson does in the book So You've Been Publicly Shamed. Unfortunately "toxic fandom" has been turned into a politically partisan issue with holier than thou posturing aimed at like minded people more than it is about serious dialogue or thinking.
"spend their lives something something", "hard working people something". So? It's not like they doing it for charity. First, this is a billion dollar business and people get high salaries; it's not like garage indie dev team trying to survive. Second, they want us to spend lots of money for their product. They have to deal with chanted, mantra-like praise and critical acclaim, and the other side as well. Shit happens. Suck it up, put on a helmet and change it or move on. And obivously the anger isn't directed to the guys on stage but the whole company (yeah yeah, "poor designers" that had to do their job on the stage). Someone must take the shit. Blizzard is not a faceless entity you can reach out to by shouting into the wind; it must hit someone who represent this company.
And actually, I haven't someone calling Blizzard 'assholes', but I just seen Schreier doing so. People defending Blizzard/blaming this guy acting like he did some serious ass shit. Harden the fuck up.
And actually, I haven't someone calling Blizzard 'assholes', but I just seen Schreier doing so. People defending Blizzard/blaming this guy acting like he did some serious ass shit. Harden the fuck up.
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JimboJones
Member
What where they expecting?
I mean i don't care if they make a diablo phone game or whatever but mobile phone games primary audience is casuals gamers, not people tuning into blizzcon type shows and waiting with bated breath on the next entry.
The types of people playing this are gonna be people getting new phones and seeing it as a recommended app from the app store.
They where always gonna get some kind of backlash for making a phone game from the PC/console crowd but they could have picked a better time and audience to reveal it too lol.
I mean i don't care if they make a diablo phone game or whatever but mobile phone games primary audience is casuals gamers, not people tuning into blizzcon type shows and waiting with bated breath on the next entry.
The types of people playing this are gonna be people getting new phones and seeing it as a recommended app from the app store.
They where always gonna get some kind of backlash for making a phone game from the PC/console crowd but they could have picked a better time and audience to reveal it too lol.
Kadayi
Banned
Schreier sucking that Blizzard dick something fierce I see. I know, I know people are going to be 'why you so mean?' 'Jason writes some decent articles', but the truth of the matter is this if he's one of the better game Journalist out there, it's a sad indictment of the profession as a whole.
I don't like putting "gamers" in a box and it seems fallacious to say that "all games journalism is detatched from everyone who has an investment in video games."
Sorry, I just picked a definition for "gamers". I think Jason Schreier and many others knee-jerk too much and fall out of professionalism but twitter is your personal soapbox too so who gives a shit? He has an opinion, fire it away. I don't particularly care for this particular opinion though and I think it's false that you can't be critical without hurting the lives of people that want to do right by you.
The industry has people with passion or simply professional expertise of various fields. People make mobile games aren't making it for me any more or less than a AAA console developer does it by default of their position, we're gonna walk in circles with these kinds of arguments. Best to just leave your personal take "I think this sucks" or "I like this mobile game" or "I disagree with you" and move on.
If this was a Kotaku article claiming this thing, we could have a better turning point but for now it's just Jason screaming his ass off over hypocritical fluff as usual and he's allowed to do that. He's a person who has opinions like anyone else. His personal views are not beholden to his job as a journalist. I don't think they are. I also don't think this speaks to ethics of journalism or anything. It's a tweet. It might paint himself in a different picture than his professional writings so you can judge those by that. Other than that, I don't see a problem here.
It's also immature to default to some "if you don't hate mobile games you're not a true gamer" or whatever. If you like Diablo it's fine. The other thing would be tribalism and we have enough of that as it is.
Sorry, I just picked a definition for "gamers". I think Jason Schreier and many others knee-jerk too much and fall out of professionalism but twitter is your personal soapbox too so who gives a shit? He has an opinion, fire it away. I don't particularly care for this particular opinion though and I think it's false that you can't be critical without hurting the lives of people that want to do right by you.
The industry has people with passion or simply professional expertise of various fields. People make mobile games aren't making it for me any more or less than a AAA console developer does it by default of their position, we're gonna walk in circles with these kinds of arguments. Best to just leave your personal take "I think this sucks" or "I like this mobile game" or "I disagree with you" and move on.
If this was a Kotaku article claiming this thing, we could have a better turning point but for now it's just Jason screaming his ass off over hypocritical fluff as usual and he's allowed to do that. He's a person who has opinions like anyone else. His personal views are not beholden to his job as a journalist. I don't think they are. I also don't think this speaks to ethics of journalism or anything. It's a tweet. It might paint himself in a different picture than his professional writings so you can judge those by that. Other than that, I don't see a problem here.
It's also immature to default to some "if you don't hate mobile games you're not a true gamer" or whatever. If you like Diablo it's fine. The other thing would be tribalism and we have enough of that as it is.
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zenspider
Member
I don't know if it's what we want to talk about, but it's the place we can talk about it.
DigitalScrap
Member
These idiots lack any self-awareness. So the disappointed guy at Blizzcon is obnoxious, but Schreier telling him and anyone who agrees with him to "fuck off" is not being an obnoxious asshole?
And he gets in the feels about the Diablo devs being "publicly belittled" (come on man), but he feels comfortable publicly telling people to fuck off? Even the person that they are overreacting to didn't stand up at the conf and say "Hey guys, fuck off".
Just who in the fuck do these people think they are?
And he gets in the feels about the Diablo devs being "publicly belittled" (come on man), but he feels comfortable publicly telling people to fuck off? Even the person that they are overreacting to didn't stand up at the conf and say "Hey guys, fuck off".
Just who in the fuck do these people think they are?
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Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Jason is one of the most holier-than-thou people I've seen when it comes to the games industry.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I came to NeoGAF to talk about actual games and I don't mind we get topic like this time to time but lately the amount topic about "controversy" out numbering topics about actual game itself.
Skyn3t
Banned
Dunno, maybe we should have Gaming journalism [OT] and enjoy all the controversy out there. Your right, to much topics on this matter. The problem is that their titles implicate the specific and subject of the discussion, narrowing the notion to a given issue.
Maybe some mod could clean this out and introduce an OT on the matter.
Bill O'Rights
?
Maybe some mod could clean this out and introduce an OT on the matter.
Bill O'Rights
?
Nymphae
Banned
Dunno, maybe we should have Gaming journalism [OT] and enjoy all the controversy out there. Your right, to much topics on this matter. The problem is that their titles implicate the specific and subject of the discussion, narrowing the notion to a given issue.
Maybe some mod could clean this out and introduce an OT on the matter.
I don't see the issue. It's a gaming related topic. It's not like the forum constantly has multiple anti-gaming journalism threads at the top of gaming. Just when some controversy arises. Do we really need a sub forum dedicated to bashing games journalism?
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Shai-Tan
Banned
There's more than enough of a deficit of self awareness to go around. One of the take aways from Jon Ronson's book is if you don't have anything constructive to add then you probably shouldn't unless you want to feed internet mobs forming around righteous indignation. Toxic fandom is real but it's just a subset of a more general phenomenon obliterating any nuance in discussion through overly emotional appeals snowballing into a license to be an asshole. Well thought out concerns are sometimes lurking behind this behavior even if it can only be found via the principle of charity but it also elevates a lot of stupidity that shouldn't be rewarded.
The demographics of games are such that there's going to be a ceiling on how civil we can be, however even teenagers can be well behaved if there are social norms against being too anti social. It's questionable whether commentators are up to the task especially when incentives point in the other direction but moderators on forums like reddit shouldn't put up with it
Nymphae
Banned
Mods could chime in here, but I feel like simply making a new topic for new news makes the most sense.
brap
Banned
TIL that people make shitty phone games for fun and not money.
Corporations good, players bad. Discuss.
To answer your question, there's no such thing as game journalism. There is thinly veiled game advertisements that masquerade as journalism, and no, in an age where anyone can just watch a video or stream of gameplay to know whether they'd want to buy something, we don't need it.
It's a dinosaur.
It's a dinosaur.
Domisto
Member
A chunk of the gaming press posts a lot of tabloid sensationalist crap. Best ignore it. Deny them the clicks and attention and ad revenue. When sites post enough crap I don't want to see promoted I stop visiting them. Got quite a few of them now. Life's too short and games are soo long.
Honestly sick of hearing about this shit.
Honestly sick of hearing about this shit.