Gay marriage salt thread

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I respect your ability to calmly state your opinions and beliefs in the midst of many who disagree with you. I have one honest question for you to ponder, however, why is homosexuality supposedly a sin that so many Christians feel that they must take action themselves to prevent? Is homosexuality excluded from the sins that Christ sacrificed himself for? Wouldn't they too be forgiven of these sins if they have faith? I am genuinely curious as to how this works.

This is exactly what Im asking too.
Actually I ask this often because Jesus was up there on that cross, and he died so our sins might be forgiven. Why then do people go to Hell? Especially if for example death row inmates find God beforehand? Also how is basically being something a sin in itself? a person could have been born gay or straight, or any of a myriad of things. You cant help what your orientation is or what your fetishes are. You cant help what interests you.
 
On a saltless note from a Christian and a conservative, I personally do not agree with homosexuality in the same sense that I disagree with other sins according to The Bible. There is no special place of hate in my heart for gays as I have gay friends and family, I simply follow my theistic moral values ahead of whatever social movements reach popular opinion that are not compatible with them.

I also understand that a secular government cannot legislate religion and really forcing religion on people dilutes the sincerity by which people embrace it. I wish all people well while at the same time wish that all people would come to Christianity and embrace the life model set out for us by Jesus..


Jesus told you to disagree with homosexuality? Damn, you must be hella old to have known this guy.


My only concern with modern liberalism is that it can be quite militant and as intolerant as any other militant ideology when faced with opposing dialogue regardless of how sensitive the other person is to the individual perspectives each of us has arrived to on our own.

Ah, you're one of those ''Please be tolerant to my intolerance, otherwise you're the real intolerant one'' guys.
Get over yourself.
 
Homosexuality isn't a sin and marriage is a man-made construct. And I'm far from an authority on the subject, but I believe Jesus was against nonsensical adherence to ancient dogma, which is exactly what religious-based opposition to marriage equality amounts to.

Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”
 
Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”

And if God has joined two men or women together what then?
 
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Oh shit thanks! That's dope. I'll keep this then!
 
Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”

Well I hope you never get divorced or you'll burn in hell.
 
Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”
So our benevolent creator just excludes a huge portion of the population from true love? For kicks?

In any case, I don't want to derail any further, once the bible verses come out debate is over anyway.
 
Anyway, I'm not here to talk religion. I think it's a good thing the government stays away from religion because honestly, I live in Canada and have no faith in the government to do anything well haha.

I simply think both sides of the debate need to be more sober and less emotional if and when an exchange on the topic ensues.
 
Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”


Hate to break it to you, but marriage isn't a christian concept and same-sex couples were marrying in ancient Rome and Greece before the religion even existed. Step out of your own perpective bro.
 
To answer this, the main difference is that homosexual don't seek repentance or acknowledge their sin and for that are arrogant and defiant. This makes it kind of unique among other sins in today's culture. It is no more severe than any other sin all people are guilty of, but to seek Christ you need to be honest with your sin and seek forgiveness.

In the 50s, many American Christians argued that interracial marriage is a sin and quoted a bunch of scriptures. I'd imagine by your logic, that they are continuing to sin by being together.

What are you views on interracial marriage?
 
People asked for a reference point on a Christian's perspective of the topic. I'm not here to preach.

Its fine if you disagree. Nobody is calling you a bigot but I do think that you are missing the big picture. People do not have a choice. Sin is choices people make. Homosexuality is not a CHOICE. And if it were I guarantee you nobody would choose it for all the difficulties and depression it can cause because of society. Have you ever had a good friend who is gay crying on your shoulder because they feel in total conflict with themselves and just want to feel normal?
 
Linking homosexuality to pedophilia even just from the slippery slope angle is a VERY old trick. Anything they can use to make us look evil, immoral, lesser or unclean has been used over and over. I'm still reminded of the ridiculous myth about how AIDS started because someone fucked a monkey, I mean really - this is exactly the same kind of slur. You still see disgusting jokes about anal sex, as if straight people don't have anal sex not to mention not all gay men even have penetrative sex. Furthermore what that says they think about women that they make fun of men "lowering" themselves to be the penetrated partner during sex. But of course ignorance is the main advantage when creating a boogey man.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, it really openend my eyes. I was born in the Netherlands and gay marriage was already legalised when I started to get sexual interests. Growing up I made lots of friends, some of the straight, some of them gay. Naturally we discussed their sexualities and how it affected their lives, most of them did not feel that is negatively affected their lives, besides the occasional bully or slur in high school.

What I am trying to get at here is that by growing up in this country I took for granted something that is not as normal as I thought it was for developed western countries. It is also hard to read that there is still so much hate towards the LGBT community in the United States, something I did not notice before and always been there.

Lets hope that children now growing up in the US also find the same luxury as I did in my youth, and can see same sex marriage as normal.
 
In the 50s, many American Christians argued that interracial marriage is a sin and quoted a bunch of scriptures. I'd imagine by your logic, that they are continuing to sin by being together.

What are you views on interracial marriage?

There is absolutely ZERO scripture on the matter. Those were just racist using religion as a fear campaign. People are people.
 
Its fine if you disagree. Nobody is calling you a bigot but I do think that you are missing the big picture. People do not have a choice. Sin is choices people make. Homosexuality is not a CHOICE. And if it were I guarantee you nobody would choose it for all the difficulties and depression it can cause because of society. Have you ever had a good friend who is gay crying on your shoulder because they feel in total conflict with themselves and just want to feel normal?

The typical Christian's stance on this is that homosexuality is fulfilled through action not urges. Same as a man may be inclined steal or lie, but it is the action that fulfills the sin. I know this will not be a popular answer but I would like to see people not defined by their sexual urges. We are beyond being driven by such a primitive motivator. I own a tattoo shop and I meet piles of hot girls all the time and it's hard to not flirt with them and be enticed by some of their occasional advances but I do, because I am in control of myself for a better purpose than my own pleasure.
 
On a saltless note from a Christian and a conservative, I personally do not agree with homosexuality in the same sense that I disagree with other sins according to The Bible. There is no special place of hate in my heart for gays as I have gay friends and family, I simply follow my theistic moral values ahead of whatever social movements reach popular opinion that are not compatible with them.

I also understand that a secular government cannot legislate religion and really forcing religion on people dilutes the sincerity by which people embrace it. I wish all people well while at the same time wish that all people would come to Christianity and embrace the life model set out for us by Jesus.

My only concern with modern liberalism is that it can be quite militant and as intolerant as any other militant ideology when faced with opposing dialogue regardless of how sensitive the other person is to the individual perspectives each of us has arrived to on our own.

As long as religious organizations are not strong armed by the state to go against the foundation of their practice and perform same sex marriages in their houses of worship when there are plenty of other venues available for gay couple to marry that aren't in opposition morally to their lifestyle, I see no need for an uproar over the legality of the ruling from a secular perspective of a diverse nation.

I don't get how some people are jumping on you for this post. I personally don't understand your point of view on gay people, but at least you've spoken your piece in a calm and rational manner, which is a damn far sight better than many who call themselves Christian.

Sure my it would be best if we could all hold hands and agree, but this is the real world. And in the real world, sometimes the best you can hope for is a truce based on respectful disagreement.
 
The typical Christian's stance on this is that homosexuality is fulfilled through action not urges. Same as a man may be inclined steal or lie, but it is the action that fulfills the sin. I know this will not be a popular answer but I would like to see people not defined by their sexual urges. We are beyond being driven by such a primitive motivator. I own a tattoo shop and I meet piles of hot girls all the time and it's hard to not flirt with them and be enticed by some of their occasional advances but I do, because I am in control of myself for a better purpose than my own pleasure.

“Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28)
 
I highly doubt the bolded will happen, being as right now, as a heterosexual couple, we can't strong arm a church into letting me get married in their church.

I suppose you don't think homosexuality is a biological choice, because it would be really weird to think that God made people biologically sinful. It'd be like if all sex, including the sex needed to reproduce, was bad, under any circumstance (even if you were married to that person). That just doesn't make sense.




Are you Catholic?

I know that Christians are taught there is no such thing as Original Sin Carried Over, being as the Bible says that the sins of your father are not passed down to the children. We aren't to be punished for what our ancestors did.

Just pointing this out. I was raised in a heavily Christian, conservative home.

All people are born sinful. That is a primary statement of Christianity and why Jesus was necessary at all.
 
I just want to give you kudos because:

1. Karl Pilkington

2. You either watched the Ricky Gervais Show or listened to the podcasts to make the Dilkington reference :p

Haha thanks, and kudos to you too for getting the references! :) I have listened and watched the Rick Gervais Show. Sooooo good!

What's really funny is that an idiot like Karl Pilkington is totally cool with gay marriage. Just goes to show how dumb people really are...
 
“Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28)

Know the difference between Mosaic Law and the Covenant of Jesus.

Also know the canaanites reference to this passage in reflection to the particular challenges which faced the early israelites.
 
To answer this, the main difference is that homosexual don't seek repentance or acknowledge their sin and for that are arrogant and defiant. This makes it kind of unique among other sins in today's culture. It is no more severe than any other sin all people are guilty of, but to seek Christ you need to be honest with your sin and seek forgiveness.
I don't particularly care to argue the point but don't you find it strange that God would make a man gay, yet you're saying he's being defiant to God for, well being gay?
 
I'm not sure how you've read that from what I've said. Jesus reiterated the truth of the Old Testament and defined marriage in a heterosexual manner himself. To wish that people would not live sinfully in accordance to what Jesus taught is in no way unlike Jesus, not that I'm claiming to be Christ-like as that would be immeasurably arrogant.

I stated that I wish all people well but believe that Jesus is the truth and ultimately living our lives in accordance to his teaching is what is best for everyone, though it is something not to be forced on others as then they have not truly changed sincerely in their hearts.

So was Jesus only talking to men in the Bible?
 
Haha thanks, and kudos to you too for getting the references! :) I have listened and watched the Rick Gervais Show. Sooooo good!

What's really funny is that an idiot like Karl Pilkington is totally cool with gay marriage. Just goes to show how dumb people really are...

He could eat a knob at night.
 
I highly doubt the bolded will happen, being as right now, as a heterosexual couple, we can't strong arm a church into letting me get married in their church.

I suppose you don't think homosexuality is a biological choice, because it would be really weird to think that God made people biologically sinful. It'd be like if all sex, including the sex needed to reproduce, was bad, under any circumstance (even if you were married to that person). That just doesn't make sense.




Are you Catholic?

I know that Christians are taught there is no such thing as Original Sin Carried Over, being as the Bible says that the sins of your father are not passed down to the children. We aren't to be punished for what our ancestors did.

Just pointing this out. I was raised in a heavily Christian, conservative home.

Yeah I am Catholic actually.

The typical Christian's stance on this is that homosexuality is fulfilled through action not urges. Same as a man may be inclined steal or lie, but it is the action that fulfills the sin. I know this will not be a popular answer but I would like to see people not defined by their sexual urges. We are beyond being driven by such a primitive motivator. I own a tattoo shop and I meet piles of hot girls all the time and it's hard to not flirt with them and be enticed by some of their occasional advances but I do, because I am in control of myself for a better purpose than my own pleasure.

Lets just say that instead of being attracted to piles of beautiful women, you were attracted to the men instead? How would you respond? Would you literally try to pray the gay away?
 
Know the difference between Mosaic Law and the Covenant of Jesus.

I'm not sure how you've read that from what I've said. Jesus reiterated the truth of the Old Testament and defined marriage in a heterosexual manner himself. To wish that people would not live sinfully in accordance to what Jesus taught is in no way unlike Jesus, not that I'm claiming to be Christ-like as that would be immeasurably arrogant.

Sorry, I just figured since you were perfectly content with adhering to the old testament when it suited your argument you would hold yourself to the same standard. But hey, you seem quite content with being a hateful hypocrite.
 
The typical Christian's stance on this is that homosexuality is fulfilled through action not urges. Same as a man may be inclined steal or lie, but it is the action that fulfills the sin. I know this will not be a popular answer but I would like to see people not defined by their sexual urges. We are beyond being driven by such a primitive motivator. I own a tattoo shop and I meet piles of hot girls all the time and it's hard to not flirt with them and be enticed by some of their occasional advances but I do, because I am in control of myself for a better purpose than my own pleasure.

This is what I mean by not understanding. You would be asking someone to live their one and only guaranteed life (since the afterlife may or may not be real) in a lie, totally unfulfilled and miserable. And that's not fair.

You can teach a thief not to steal. You can't pray the gay away, as has been proven over and over again. One need only look at homosexuality in nature to understand it's not some freakish thought born in humankind. As such, it can't really be classified as a sin.
 
"Mr. K. Dilkington?!?!"

BTW you guys probably don't want to turn this into the homosexuality Bible debate thread. Nobody wins that.
 
Know the difference between Mosaic Law and the Covenant of Jesus.

But see, there's a lot of debate about whether they are, in fact, different.

Matthew 5:17 (New International Version): "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

There are thousands of denominations of Christianity because the Bible doesn't exactly lend itself towards a singular, consistent reading or interpretation.

Edit: Oh, they're gone. Pity.
 
The typical Christian's stance on this is that homosexuality is fulfilled through action not urges. Same as a man may be inclined steal or lie, but it is the action that fulfills the sin. I know this will not be a popular answer but I would like to see people not defined by their sexual urges. We are beyond being driven by such a primitive motivator. I own a tattoo shop and I meet piles of hot girls all the time and it's hard to not flirt with them and be enticed by some of their occasional advances but I do, because I am in control of myself for a better purpose than my own pleasure.

I don't want to be with a man for sexual reasons, I never give in to urges or have one night stands because I know I'll regret it seconds later, I'm not into that. I want to be with a man, because generally, their personalities and interests(like video gaming) are more compatible with mine, and I find that attractive.

Women are sexy, but I don't see myself sharing my life with one, it would feel unnatural and forced to me.

It's not about urges, it's about love.
 
Sorry, I just figured since you were perfectly content with adhering to the old testament when it suited your argument you would hold yourself to the same standard. But hey, you seem quite content with being a hateful hypocrite.

If you want to insult me, at least be educated on the topic by which you would form your criticism of my perspective.
 
I don't get how some people are jumping on you for this post. I personally don't understand your point of view on gay people, but at least you've spoken your piece in a calm and rational manner, which is a damn far sight better than many who call themselves Christian.

Sure my it would be best if we could all hold hands and agree, but this is the real world. And in the real world, sometimes the best you can hope for is a truce based on respectful disagreement.
I agree. The poster even says there's no place for hate in their heart for gays. Just because someone doesn't agree or like something doesn't mean they hate. Their opinion was spoken in a way we should respect much like we ask for ours to be respected. I can't necessarily blame people who disagree with it and we shouldn't judge them just like we ask they don't judge all gays and so on. It goes both ways.
 
Without getting to heavy into an off topic debate. We are all born into sin or various types. People are born more likely to be unfaithful than others but that does not excuse the behaviour. Modern psychology says all sort of various human behavioural characteristics are based on genetics that we have no control over including some of the most heinous acts we commit to eachother.

But there is nothing heinous or harmful in homosexual relationships, unlike being unfaithful or other harmful behaviours. It's just people being in love.

You really ought to start questioning why the Bible decreed some acts to be sinful when they are not only of no harm to anyone, but are often in fact expressions of love. There is simply no justification for comparing same-sex relationships to harmful acts like stealing, cheating on one's spouse, etc.
 
It's great that people can be with ones they love now lawfully but it's quite insensitive to accuse people who may not agree/understand as being a "bigot."

This either you agree or you're a bigot mentality needs to end.

Please. He's calling homosexuals arrogant, defiant because they don't seek repentance, telling them to not act on "their urges", to essentially suppress all that they are, all in the name of religion. "there's no excuse for the behavior".

It's 2015 for fucks sake, and that's complete garbage, and should be treated as such.
 
Without getting to heavy into an off topic debate. We are all born into sin or various types. People are born more likely to be unfaithful than others but that does not excuse the behaviour. Modern psychology says all sort of various human behavioural characteristics are based on genetics that we have no control over including some of the most heinous acts we commit to eachother.

If simply being born with tendencies is ground by which they are to be accepted it's a very slippery slope based on what is right and wrong. If according to Christ homosexual acts weren't sinful, then he wouldn't have stated that in accordance to God's law marriage is between and man and a woman, and the New Testament wouldn't have address the acts as perversions by which men and women lost themselves.

Anyway, I just think that people need to have a more sober perspective of both sides on this debate. Being Christian, even one that does not morally agree with homosexuality, does not make you a hateful bigot. And we have to understand that our governments represent millions of people of various faith and we cannot and really shouldn't want our particular religion mandated in a forceful manner even if in our hearts we believe it is the correct way. If can't didn't force himself on us, he can't force him on each other.

No it makes you a polite bigot.
 
I agree. The poster even says there's no place for hate in their heart for gays. Just because someone doesn't agree or like something doesn't mean they hate. Their opinion was spoken in a way we should respect much like we ask for ours to be respected. I can't necessarily blame people who disagree with it and we shouldn't judge them just like we ask they don't judge all gays and so on. It goes both ways.

I agree with this. The guy isnt a bigot but he is free to disagree. He told people to take it to PMs if they want to continue to debate and thats fair. For once you have another Christian who ISNT being hateful so take that as a positive and debate him in a non aggressive manner.
 
To answer this, the main difference is that homosexual don't seek repentance or acknowledge their sin and for that are arrogant and defiant. This makes it kind of unique among other sins in today's culture. It is no more severe than any other sin all people are guilty of, but to seek Christ you need to be honest with your sin and seek forgiveness.

I take back saying you're polite.
 
I agree with this. The guy isnt a bigot but he is free to disagree. He told people to take it to PMs if they want to continue to debate and thats fair. For once you have another Christian who ISNT being hateful so take that as a positive and debate him in a non aggressive manner.

Who cares, same sex marriage is now legal, and his outdated beliefs on the matter have no place in our modern society. So sad.
 
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