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German Federal Elections 2017 |OT| Electing the new leader of the free world

Dadasch

Member
Centric democratic parties are another word for corporatist parties that increased inequality massively in the last 40 years.

Can't wait for my corporate overlords indeed. People can't seems to learn.

Well, maybe he is a corporate overlord. Think about it.

Jokes aside, I don't get it too. FDP clearly used their time in the government to please these big corporations but they weren't really punished because of this fact. They were punished because Philipp Rösler was incompetent as fuck.
Otherwise people wouldn't begin to vote for them again.

Edit: Lol, forgot to type the name. :D
 

Xando

Member
Three things:
1. I doubt that this would make them a sub 20% party permanently
2. Just take a look at green policies before they went into a coalition with SPD and afterwards. They had very extreme positions on foreign policies and all of them were swept away right away. It was not a major focus of their policies and an easy thing to give up. Same will happen if the left enter a government
3. In general, you are acting like the left would suddenly decide everything on their own if they enter a coalition. I claim it would be disastrous for the left if they insisted on their crude foreign policies to the point of rendering improvements in social justice that would only be possible under a red-red-green coalition, impossible. As a small party, the left has a core topic, which is social justice in economical terms. If major advancements in this central topic are made (Hartz 4, tax distribution, social insurances), a coalition they are part of would be successful in the eyes of their voters, even if NATO is not even brought up in the slightest. Similar to how the red-green coalition was a success to green voters due to major advancements in green energies and nuclear power.

Regarding the tax issues, yes this is indeed a bit problematic, because people continue to easily fall for claims that something to their personal disadvantage may happen, when in reality, only very rich people would be affected negatively. Case in point the tax concept of Trittin last election, which was only "expensive" to people who earn a shitton of money. However, due to inflation, the middle incomes are negatively affected by time, so a reform is necessary and I indeed think that a taxing closer to the 1997 level for highest income levels is fair and the right way to go.

I‘m not sure why you compare the left to the greens. Even in their most leftist times they weren’t as radical as the left.

A coalition of the SPD and left will push the SPD way more to the left than the left to the center. It will scare away possible voters like myself. Social justice is a nice topic but generally most germans don’t give a fuck about it(SPD made this their main topic for the election and now look where they are).

I don’t think you can just wash away their failed ideology on foreign policy. Imagine Russia invades part of Poland. Do you seriously believe the left would vote military action against russia?
Spending money is always nice but the lefts problem is you have to get it from somewhere.

Centric democratic parties are another word for corporatist parties that increased inequality massively in the last 40 years.

Can't wait for my corporate overlords indeed. People can't seems to learn.
Let me guess. You’re voting for the left.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I‘m not sure why you compare the left to the greens. Even in their most leftist times they weren’t as radical as the left.
They were super radical on different points, and unrealisitc in their demands, as well. They wanted to legalise consensual sex with children, they wanted to immediately drop out of nuclear energy and strictly ruled out any armed conflict. On the last point, they are actually comparable to the left of today and probably more extreme than they are now.

A coalition of the SPD and left will push the SPD way more to the left than the left to the center. It will scare away possible voters like myself. Social justice is a nice topic but generally most germans don’t give a fuck about it(SPD made this their main topic for the election and now look where they are).
It's not as easy as that, neoliberal policies that were very harsh on people in difficult social situations were the SPD's downfall in 2005 and beyond. Topics of social justice are hard to convey and go against the interests of wealthy people though (which in turn leads to unfair or plain wrong accusations and fear mongering).

I don’t think you can just wash away their failed ideology on foreign policy. Imagine Russia invades part of Poland. Do you seriously believe the left would vote military action against russia?
If they are part of the government? You bet I do.
Spending money is always nice but the lefts problem is you have to get it from somewhere.
Tax increases for very high incomes, truly solidaric social insurance systems, there are concepts to get the money to spend.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Nope, because I feel absolutely no need to justify my vote for a centric democratic party. Please wonder.
Come on, don't be like that. :/ No, you don't have to justify anything, my post wasn't ment as an attack on you or your decision. I just want learn about the personal motivations of FDP voters. If you don't want anyone to ask about you better not bring it up in the first place. And yeah, I'd still love to hear about it.

With the tone shifting down to personal and aggressive levels everywhere open political debates in a friendly environment are what Western societies so dearly need these days...
 

PnCIa

Member
Two more percent and the AFD fucks won't make it.

DHXmGNSXkAANQ0r.jpg
I really hope that the Afd will loose more ground over the next couple of weeks. But its possible that this is their core...so they can juuuust pass 5% :-(

What i am really suprised about is the resurgence of the fdp. People must have a really broken memory, or the american "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"-syndrom is kicking in here.
 

Xando

Member
It's not as easy as that, neoliberal policies that were very harsh on people in difficult social situations were the SPD's downfall in 2005 and beyond. Topics of social justice are hard to convey and go against the interests of wealthy people though (which in turn leads to unfair or plain wrong accusations and fear mongering).
If this were true the CDU would have lost the center vote in 2009 after the financial crash. The second part sounds like a conspiracy theory.
If they are part of the government? You bet I do.
So they’re gonna betray their votes and completely 180 their manifesto position on NATO(which sound like they’re directly from RT btw.)?
Tax increases for very high incomes, truly solidaric social insurance systems, there are concepts to get the money to spend.

And yet in the end it’s always people like me who are neither poor nor rich who are getting fucked by these proposals. Whether it’s the SPD or other recent tax proposals to tax the rich always hit the middle the hardest.


I really hope that the Afd will loose more ground over the next couple of weeks. But its possible that this is their core...so they can juuuust pass 5% :-(

What i am really suprised about is the resurgence of the fdp. People must have a really broken memory, or the american "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"-syndrom is kicking in here.
The FDP has some decent proposals. Especially for younger people
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
If this were true the CDU would have lost the center vote in 2009 after the financial crash. The second part sounds like a conspiracy theory.
You know the INSM? It is not a conspiracy, it is just lobbying at work. The financial crash was not in particular the CDU's fault and not their decision, agenda 2010 and Hartz 4 was Schröder's fault / decision.

So they’re gonna betray their votes and completely 180 their manifesto position on NATO(which sound like they’re directly from RT btw.)?
Poland is part of the EU and moreover, I already explained that yes, I do not think that foreign policies are what the left would want to have a coalition fail about.


And yet in the end it’s always people like me who are neither poor nor rich who are getting fucked by these proposals. Whether it’s the SPD or other recent tax proposals to tax the rich always hit the middle the hardest.
With an increased top tax rate and a lowered tax rate for lower incomes, higher overall taxes only need to be payed by people well north of the lower end of sum where the top tax rate applies, I would hardly call this "in the middle". If you earn 100k/year you are not "in the middle" anymore. In their concept, the left put a new level of 60% taxes on incomes from 260k/year, this affects absolutely no one close to the middle at all.
 
AFP: #BREAKING Erdogan urges Turks in Germany not to support CDU, SPD or Greens

lol

Isn't this the same guy that told Germany not to fuck with Turkey's domestic policy?


Edit: To nitpick: Turks aren't allowed to participate in the German election. Those allowed would be Germans (with Turkish background).
 

chadskin

Member
Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel had bitterly condemned Erdogan's comments as an "unprecedented act of interference" in Germany's sovereignty.

But speaking to supporters in the southwestern province of Denizli, Erdogan launched a stinging personal attack on Gabriel.

"He knows no limits! Who are you to talk to the president of Turkey? Know your limits. He is trying to teach us a lesson... How long have you been in politics? How old are you?" Erdogan said.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-warns-german-foreign-minister-know-limits-173427126.html

What a nimrod.
 
I personally would like either a CDU/FDP- or SPD/Green-government. No more great coalition, no Linke and no AFD, thankyouverymuch.

I think that would be healthier for the democracy than anything else.
 

Nerazar

Member
I personally would like either a CDU/FDP- or SPD/Green-government. No more great coalition, no Linke and no AFD, thankyouverymuch.

I think that would be healthier for the democracy than anything else.

CDU/FDP would be a very bad thing. I will finish my Master's degree by then, but I see them reinstating tuition fees, slash taxes for their donors and social programs even harder... Given that perspective, I would really go for great coalition again. Or Jamaika or some weird stuff.

But man, the FDP surge is really not good...
 
With how things currently look, Jamaika would seem good to me. Or CDU/Greens. Latter is improbable though with the FDP at these numbers.
 
I somehow doubt that Merkel would turn her political stance that much with the FDP. And if the FDP aims for all of that you mentioned I think they'd be done for longer than what they were now.
 
I somehow doubt that Merkel would turn her political stance that much with the FDP. And if the FDP aims for all of that you mentioned I think they'd be done for longer than what they were now.

They aimed for exactly that and still got voted into the NRW Landtag (tuition fees I mean)
 

Ladekabel

Member

God, he's such a useless tool and hypocrite... everytime sb voices their support for Seehofer I scream internally

Seehofer is a tool. pretendstobeshocked.gif

I'm still flabbergasted that I heard so many people (not just older people, quite a few people I grew up with, too) say that they would like to vote him if he wasn't just voteable in Bavaria during the height of the refugee coverage.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Hey guys, now guess which CSU politician once wanted to set up concentrations camps for people who suffer of HIV.

Also the FDP being lovely again. Could be straight from the AfD.

DHnsUH8UQAABqv-.jpg:large
This, the crimea comment from Lindner, its getting obivious after which voters they are going.
Luckily they dont take over the racist statements of the AfD
 

wrowa

Member
What kind of dark timeline are we in that CDU/FDP looks like a very likely outcome? Ugh, that's depressing. I think I'd even rather have the AfD a couple points higher (not like they'd be able to influence anything anyway) than FDP as part of the government.

Every current option is kinda shit though. SPD can't catch a break in a great coalition, so 4 years of opposition might do the party some good. I think it'd be interesting to see what CDU/Greens would be like, but at the same time I'm not sure if this wouldn't cause some kind of internal identity crisis that would break the Greens apart.

It's kinda sad that with the left in the picture, there's not really much hope that Germany will get a left-leaning goverment again in the foreseeable future. Even if SPD recovers in the next years, it seems unlikely that SDP/Greens would get a majority... ever.
 
D

Deleted member 98878

Unconfirmed Member
Interesting concept
Auch wenn dein Wal dem Wahl-O-Mat sehr ähnelt, steckt doch ein ganz anderes Konzept dahinter. Hier sagen die Parteien nicht, wie sie zu einem Thema abstimmen würden — hier zählt, wie sie zu einem Thema abgestimmt haben! Das unterscheidet deinen Wal übrigens auch von den typischen Wahlprogrammen.
https://deinwal.de/home

Apparently I'm linksgrünversifft
 

Lucumo

Member
Eh, I got a similar result but never ever would vote for Linke. Interesting site though, I like their breakdown at the end.

Same here.

wahl49uky.png


Though, not much of a surprise, considering there are six questions about the military (seven, if you count the one about the budget). Add to that CETA, finances in general, society and family and you have such a bar.
 
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