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[gutter_trash]

Who wants to be friends with that idiot?

 

[Siegcram]

From the party secretary of the CDU:

Translation:



Best wishes from Mutti! Tauber is the worst, I hope he needs to step down over this.

Smart move, tagging a national news outlet in that shitshow. Truly "Neuland" for some of these jokers.

 

[Shiggy]

From the party secretary of the CDU:

Translation:



Best wishes from Mutti! Tauber is the worst, I hope he needs to step down over this.

I need to vomit.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't think Trudeau knew this until he read that tweet.

From the party secretary of the CDU:

Translation:



Best wishes from Mutti! Tauber is the worst, I hope he needs to step down over this.

That guy is a studied historian and carreer politician. I think that's where the old saying of sitting in a glass house fits..

 

[Bitch Pudding]

"I'm not your friend, buddy!"

 

[Fritz]

http://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN19O1NS

That'll raise eyebrows in Washington ...

Worth its own thread imho (can't do it tho)

 

[GAMEPROFF]

He "apologized".

Its a fact: Only with a good education you earn enough, to not have to get three Mini-Jobs, to have enough for a living.

Fuuuuuck off.

 

[Ladekabel]

He "apologized".


Fuuuuuck off.

I don't like the dude either and the double down on his comments from yesterday is disgusting but at least post the most recent state he put out:

Someone who needs three Mini-Jobs to make a living doesn't have it easy. I didn't want to hurt anyone who is in this situation.
I'm sorry if my argument - how important a good education and the economic conditions are to not be dependent on three Mini-Jobs -
was stupid articulated and hurt people.

https://twitter.com/petertauber/status/882142197101068288

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I don't like the dude either and the double down on his comments from yesterday is disgusting but at least post the most recent state he put out:

I was not aware that there was yet another new statement.

 

[Siegcram]

I don't like the dude either and the double down on his comments from yesterday is disgusting but at least post the most recent state he put out:





https://twitter.com/petertauber/status/882142197101068288

"I'm sorry that people got offended" still doesn't constitute an apology. Nevermind that this supposed argument is non-existent in the original tweet, both in content and sentiment.

Edit: Spiegel just posted a column about this: http://spon.de/ae0Rh

 

[Shiggy]

It'll be interesting how/if the G20 escalation will have an effect on upcoming polls. I wouldn't be surprised if the CDU was to benefit from what went down in Hamburg.

 

[Muffin1611]

It'll be interesting how/if the G20 escalation will have an effect on upcoming polls. I wouldn't be surprised if the CDU was to benefit from what went down in Hamburg.

It was Merkels idea to hold it in Hamburg though, wasn't it?

 

[Shiggy]

It was Merkels idea to hold it in Hamburg though, wasn't it?

I don't think people see it as a problem that the G20 state leaders meet in Hamburg. People see it as a problem that left-wing terrorists riot in Hamburg, and that the police was completely powerless for hours. There shouldn't be areas in Germany without law and order.

Most people probably also don't share the view of the Greens and the Linke that it was also the police's fault that these riots were triggered.

CDU is the traditional party that stands for security and not the Gutmenschentum that puts all blame on the state power. Most people are speechless that this mob could go wild in Hamburg, and thus would hope for stronger police.

 

[Ladekabel]

I don't think people see it as a problem that the G20 state leaders meet in Hamburg. People see it as a problem that left-wing terrorists riot in Hamburg, and that the police was completely powerless for hours. There shouldn't be areas in Germany without law and order.

Most people probably also don't share the view of the Greens and the Linke that it was also the police's fault that these riots were triggered.

CDU is the traditional party that stands for security and not the Gutmenschentum that puts all blame on the state power. Most people are speechless that this mob could go wild in Hamburg, and thus would hope for stronger police.

Anecdotal I can say that many people don't understand why it was held in Hamburg in the first place.

I think neither party will gain/lose much because of the G20 summit but I was wrong often.

 

[Muffin1611]

I don't think people see it as a problem that the G20 state leaders meet in Hamburg. People see it as a problem that left-wing terrorists riot in Hamburg, and that the police was completely powerless for hours. There shouldn't be areas in Germany without law and order.

Most people probably also don't share the view of the Greens and the Linke that it was also the police's fault that these riots were triggered.

CDU is the traditional party that stands for security and not the Gutmenschentum that puts all blame on the state power. Most people are speechless that this mob could go wild in Hamburg, and thus would hope for stronger police.

Absolving the police from any responsibility is pretty senseless though. They escalated the situation beforehand already by storming camps and being violent. And making pretty severe violations against Versammlungsfreiheit. That has nothing to do with "Gutmenschentum" or putting all blame on the state, it's a fact.

But you're probably right that the general populace could see it that way.

 

[El Topo]

Let's also not pretend people didn't expect this to be a shitshow. Everyone knew that holding the meeting in Hamburg would mean trouble.

 

[Xando]

It'll be interesting how/if the G20 escalation will have an effect on upcoming polls. I wouldn't be surprised if the CDU was to benefit from what went down in Hamburg.

I doubt it will have much effect in the country.

Scholz and his interior senator are going to get into trouble though.

They spoke about how well prepared they were for the summit and no one would notice it.
Scholz even compared it to the Hafen Geburtstag.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I doubt it will have much effect in the country.

Scholz and his interior senator are going to get into trouble though.

They spoke about how well prepared they were for the summit and no one would notice it.
Scholz even compared it to the Hafen Geburtstag.

When is Hamburg voting? Next year?

 

[Muffin1611]

When is Hamburg voting? Next year?

Early 2019.

 

[Xando]

Absolving the police from any responsibility is pretty senseless though. They escalated the situation beforehand already by storming camps and being violent. And making pretty severe violations against Versammlungsfreiheit. That has nothing to do with "Gutmenschentum" or putting all blame on the state, it's a fact.

But you're probably right that the general populace could see it that way.

Police clearly toned it down after everyone complained about the camps.
If they’d went with the usual aggressiveness they use during May 1st this civil war yesterday wouldn’t have happened.


Quick look tells me next Bürgerschaftswahlen are in 2020

 

[Muffin1611]

Police clearly toned it down after everyone complained about the camps.
If they'd went with the usual aggressiveness they use during May 1st this civil war yesterday wouldn't have happened.

It really feels like someone before mentioned that they were too aggressive in the wrong cases beforehand, but were either too hands-off or ill-prepared when the massive riots went down afterwards to me.

Quick look tells me next Bürgerschaftswahlen are in 2020

Ah, thanks for the note. Early 2019 is Bezirksversammlungen.

 

[mcarlie]

"I'm not your friend, buddy!"

"It's politically expedient to call you my friend as well Trump".

 

[Xando]

It really feels like someone before mentioned that they were too aggressive in the wrong cases beforehand, but were either too hands-off or ill-prepared when the massive riots went down afterwards to me.



Ah, thanks for the note. Early 2019 is Bezirksversammlungen.

The problem is that the black bloc sleeps in these camps.
I mean they literally went from the camps through Altona and burned 30 cars.
Camps shouldn’t have been allowed imo.

 

[Muffin1611]

The problem is that the black bloc sleeps in these camps.
I mean they literally went from the camps through Altona and burned 30 cars.
Camps shouldn’t have been allowed imo.

Could be, but it was approved by the court. They weren't allowed there to sleep though, and when some people tried to build tents, instead of just confiscating them, they did that and cleared the whole camp. Which I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed to.

Canceling whole demonstrations because of some black bloc guys in between on grounds of the Vermummungsgesetz was also pretty illegal. Versammlungsfreiheit of the rest outweighs that.

 

[Xando]

Could be, but it was approved by the court. They weren't allowed there to sleep though, and when some people tried to build tents, instead of just confiscating them, they did that and cleared the whole camp. Which I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed to.

Canceling whole demonstrations because of some black bloc guys in between on grounds of the Vermummungsgesetz was also pretty illegal. Versammlungsfreiheit of the rest outweighs that.

You’re basically running the rote flora line of blaming police and hide behind the Versammlungsrecht.

Also you’re mixing up the camps. You talk about entenwerder which is outside the city.

The black bloc came from the Volkspark camp where they were allowed to sleep.
What we saw on friday or thursday was no legal protest and if people decide to mask themselves police should take them down with full force. No matter how much the greens or die linke complains.
If you don’t use full force things like thursday and friday happen.
We are literally at a stage at this point where SEK and GSG9 have to secure normal police forces because of this passive action.

 

[Muffin1611]

You're basically running the rote flora line of blaming police and hide behind the Versammlungsrecht.

Also you're mixing up the camps. You talk about entenwerder which is outside the city.

The black bloc came from the Volkspark camp where they were allowed to sleep.
What we saw on friday or thursday was no legal protest and if people decide to mask themselves police should take them down with full force. No matter how much the greens or die linke complains.
If you don't use full force things like thursday and friday happen.

I know that I've been talking about another camp, you made the general statement "Camps shouldn't be allowed". This particular one was allowed but cleared regardless. Which just added to the heated mood.

Camps where a heightened presence of the black bloc could be confirmed could have been handled more aggressive, sure.

And as much as it may seem that I'm using buzzwords like "Versammlungsfreiheit" to blame the police out of reflex, I'm not. Versammlungsfreiheit is an important right that shouldn't be overruled by things like a few people hiding their faces. At least not for the other people participating that are NOT hiding their faces. I'm not asserting that out of nowhere, I looked at opinions of legal experts beforehand.

I don't get why people seem to get so much shit for criticizing genuine errors of the police as if they're the only party being blamed. I'm not doing that. And I shouldn't have to mention my disdain for the black bloc wrecking shit everytime I do either.

We are literally at a stage at this point where SEK and GSG9 have to secure normal police forces because of this passive action.

And as I said before already, they should have been more aggressive in the later parts of G20 where it really was just whole groups of people going around looting and destroying stuff.

That is no excuse for signing off on questionable measures the police used against other, genuine protestors before.

 

[Xando]

I know that I've been talking about another camp, you made the general statement "Camps shouldn't be allowed". This particular one was allowed but cleared regardless. Which just added to the heated mood.

Camps where a heightened presence of the black bloc could be confirmed could have been handled more aggressive, sure.

And as much as it may seem that I'm using buzzwords like "Versammlungsfreiheit" to blame the police out of reflex, I'm not. Versammlungsfreiheit is an important right that shouldn't be overruled by things like a few people hiding their faces. At least not for the other people participating that are NOT hiding their faces. I'm not asserting that out of nowhere, I looked at opinions of legal experts beforehand.

I don't get why people seem to get so much shit for criticizing genuine errors of the police as if they're the only party being blamed. I'm not doing that. And I shouldn't have to mention my disdain for the black bloc wrecking shit everytime I do either.



And as I said before already, they should have been more aggressive in the later parts of G20 where it really was just whole groups of people going around looting and destroying stuff.

That is no excuse for signing off on questionable measures the police used against other, genuine protestors before.

I have yet to see police attack genuine protesters (and no i‘m not counting people standing watching and cheering the black bloc as genuine protestors).

And these riots haven’t only going on in the later parts.
The first riots were on tuesday when police got attacked for being too harsh by the media and greens. They took action and became more passive.

The problem once again (i‘ve been hearing the same arguments for 20 years) is that people think police should somehow allow people to smash buildings, throw stuff and let themselves get attacked because of some stupid anti capitalist shit.

If you feel the need to cheer on people attacking police officers or start some kind of barrier to stop the police from getting districts back under control and defend the people throwing rocks (like it’s happening right now) you should feels the full force of the police.

 

[Muffin1611]

The problem once again (i‘ve been hearing the same arguments for 20 years) is that people think police should somehow allow people to smash buildings, throw stuff and let themselves get attacked because of some stupid anti capitalist shit.

If you feel the need to cheer on people attacking police officers or start some kind of barrier to stop the police from getting districts back under control and defend the people throwing rocks (like it's happening right now) you should feels the full force of the police.

I'm not sure why you're telling me this. I didn't argue anything of that.

Edit: Good article that sums up my problems with the mistakes on the police side (headline is a bit meh): http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...er-polizei-ist-kolossal-gescheitert-1.3579457

 

[Oersted]

Police clearly toned it down after everyone complained about the camps.
If they’d went with the usual aggressiveness they use during May 1st this civil war yesterday wouldn’t have happened.


Quick look tells me next Bürgerschaftswahlen are in 2020

One of my best friends parents died in a civil war. Stop this nonsense.

 

[Xando]

Latest poll:

Merkels own approval rating is now back at pre refugee crisis numbers.


Also SPD revealed it's future plan today. Some good things in it but also a lot i disagree with.

Quick translate:

1) "Massive" investment into faster internet, renewable energy, research, education, infrastructure, hospitals and schools. Wants to implement a investment clause for future goverments (Constitutional law?)
2) Wants to start a innovation alliance with german companies
3) Wants to get bureaucracy online so you don't have to go to any goverment agencys anymore (This needs to happen ASAP)
4) Wants to invest in structural poor regions (soli for everyone basically) and reform immigration laws
5) Wants to increase wages, lower number of timed contracts and keep pensions stable
6) Wants to help families by massive investments into kindergardens and fullday schools and help women get better equal treatment
7) Wants to make all education free, strip states of their education rights and get the federal goverment involved and invest into jobschools (Berufschule).
8) Reform the eurozone and give it a investment budget, remove veto power from non euro countrys and fight tax evasion
9) Have financial repercussions for countries not honoring their EU commitments (like poland or hungary) in issues like the refugee question
10) Less weapon sales and more money for developement projects (Atleast 1.5 x defence budget) and a european defense union

Full programm here http://docs.dpaq.de/12517-das_moderne_deutschland.pdf (in german)


They got me on 1, 2, 3,6,7,8 and 9. Doubt they can actually realize it though. Even if they would win.

 

[kingkaiser]

5) Wants to increase wages, lower number of timed contracts and keep pensions stable

10) Less weapon sales and more money for developement projects (Atleast 1.5 x defence budget) and a european defense union

They got me on 1, 2, 3,6,7,8 and 9. Doubt they can actually realize it though. Even if they would win.

Wait, your are against better (minimum) wages but in favor for massive weapon sales?
Do you work for Heckler & Koch or something?

 

[Xando]

Wait, your are against better (minimum) wages but in favor for massive weapon sales?
Do you work for Heckler & Koch or something?

Haha no.


I just think the a government shouldn’t get too involved with the markets. Especially as a export country we need to stay competitive or production will move.
And on weapon sales i don’t see why we should remove ourselves from that market and give free business to the americans or french.

 

[Xando]

Only 1 1/2 months left until the election

Let's look at some polls:

After the wildly successfull Dieselgipfel today maybe the CDU will finally lose some points

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Only 1 1/2 months left until the election

Let's look at some polls:

After the wildly successfull Dieselgipfel today maybe the CDU will finally lose some points

Unlikely, as far as I know Germans tend to believe that Dieselgate is the car manufacturers's fault.

 

[Xando]

Unlikely, as far as I know Germans tend to believe that Dieselgate is the car manufacturers's fault.

Well they most certainly are but the goverment (Especially CDU/CSU) holding their hand over them instead of demanding action has been a disgrace.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Well they most certainly are but the goverment (Especially CDU/CSU) holding their hand over them instead of demanding action has been a disgrace.

All parties do, let's not forget who's VW's second biggest shareholder and who currently leads that certain shareholder.

 

[anonymous_abc]

I’ve received confirmation that my registration to vote from abroad has been processed. So I will be able to do my part.

 

[Bedameister]

Politicians having their asses up the automobile industry? I'm shocked

Spoiler

/s

 

[Ladekabel]

If politicians still wonder why people are "politikverdrossen" after the Dieselgipfel one could call them out of touch or they just don't care. It's embarrassing.

 

[Xando]

One can only hope courts start banning diesel after that shitshow today

 

[TVexperto]

How can people still vote merkel the government is a mess. once again people wont care after the diesel scandal, they want to continue to get bamboozled

 

[Bitch Pudding]

How can people still vote merkel the government is a mess. once again people wont care after the diesel scandal, they want to continue to get bamboozled

Is it? I mean, it is, according to the focus online comment section, Germany's #1 AfD echo chamber. Merkel's approval ratings and the latest polls however indicate something else.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Campaign adds from all the major parties:

CDU: "For a Germany in which we live well and happily."

SPD: "The future needs news ideas, and someone who realizes them."

Greens: "The environments isn't everything, but without the environment everything is nothing."

The Left: "Human - Strong against right wing vitriol"

FDP: "Impatience is a virtue as well." The small text basically says that they like what other parties are doing, but they want to do it faster and better.

AfD: "Burkas? We like Bikinis. Be brave, Germany"

 

[Dangansona]

Does it bother you guys that the debate only features Merkel and Schulz?

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Does it bother you guys that the debate only features Merkel and Schulz?

Well, we don't vote for the chancellor directly, we basically vote for parties.
Based on this vote the Bundestag is assembled and they vote for a chancellor.
The only two realistic choices are Merkel and Schulz.

By now Schulz chances are practically zero, though.
So, its gonna another 4 years of Merkel.

The other parties promote their agendas, but they won't waste time promoting a specific candidate.

 

[Xando]

Was considering to vote for them but of course Linder needed to spout some bullshit

For our english friends

"FDP boss Linder urges restart in Germany - Russia relations, debate the Crimea question"

 

[Wamb0wneD]

The AFD one... Fucking lmao.
I'm not sure people will stop to read what is written on the FDP one.
Also what are those new ideas Schultz is talking about? Haven't heard anyting new from him yet.

 

[kingkaiser]

I can't stand neither the FDP nor Lindner, especially the former of which is just a puppet of high capitalism, but he has a point regarding Germany's relationship with Russia.

It is not in our best interest to take any side in this geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, especially if our economy is the first to suffer heavy casualties through more and more strict sanctioning one of our biggest trade partners.

 

[Xando]

I can't stand neither the FDP nor Lindner, especially the former of which is just a puppet of high capitalism, but he has a point regarding Germany's relationship with Russia.

It is not in our best interest to take any side in this geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, especially if our economy is the first to suffer heavy casualties through more and more strict sanctioning one of our biggest trade partners.

I agree that we need a better relationship with Russia but not at the price that they can just annex neighbours when they want to.

Our problem at the moment is that we can't really stay neutral in the US/Russia conflict since we are dependent on the US military.

If we had a european army that wouldn't be a problem but until then we're always kinda skewing towards the US.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Was considering to vote for them but of course Linder needed to spout some bullshit

For our english friends

"FDP boss Linder urges restart in Germany - Russia relations, debate the Crimea question"

Thats so dumb.
By now everyone should know that Putin isn't reliable.
If he gets a pass this time he will just do it again.