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[kingkaiser]

Our problem at the moment is that we can't really stay neutral in the US/Russia conflict since we are dependent on the US military.

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

 

[Xando]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

Now that sounds like it's straight from RT.

Russia can't just annex parts of a country because they want a warm water port (especially since Ukraine offered to lend it to them).

And no offense to France but they (just like we) don't carry enough hard power to rival Russia or the US.
If we had a EU army we wouldn't need the americans deciding shit for us.

A example:

I think at some point we need to start a libya intervention to solve the migration crisis. France and the UK couldn't even enforce their own no fly zone in Libya without US support.
A EU army would have way more equipment do deal with such situations directly on our border.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

Russia could just make an agreement with its neighboring countries for that. Pay Ukraine to use a port, or Georgia. But well, they decided to fuck those countries over instead.

 

[chadskin]

Lindner and the FDP continue to angle for potential AfD voters. Urgh.

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

In 2010 Russia's lease of the Sevastopol naval base was extended until 2042 -- Ukraine eventually joining the EU would've had no impact on this agreement. If anything, I think the EU would've likely encouraged further extensions to prevent an armed conflict.

That said, Russia has more than just one warm water port with access to the Black Sea ...

 

[Nerazar]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

1) He wouldn't attack any NATO country. He would do the same thing as with Crimea or Eastern Ukraine: just rip off the Russia insignia from tanks and uniforms and sending people over as "tourists" or "patriotic Russians". And if there are 10.000 of those pouring in, well, it's still not the Russian army, right?

2) No, we don't have to honor any of that shit. Sorry for the language. Autocratic leaders can invent whatever reasons they want, be it Lebensraum, be it the battle against "imperialism" or "fascism" - invading other countries, especially for petty things like ports or military bases, is nothing we can accept. The US gets called out left and right for that, especially from Russia, so we have to call Putin out on that as well.

Russia has too many "disputed territories", going from Moldova to Japan, and I have the feeling that they want to extend it.

 

[chadskin]

That was quick:

Russland-Sanktionen bei Fortschritt lockern, bei Rückschritt verschärfen. Annexion der Krim nicht akzeptieren, aber die Frage einfrieren, damit es woanders Bewegung geben kann. Hier die Erläuterung, damit nicht jeder seine eigene Interpretation macht... CL

https://www.facebook.com/lindner.christian/videos/1807748512573044/

 

[kingkaiser]

I think the current decade has taught us Europeans one important lesson, neither the US nor the Russians are a truly reliable partner, they both want Europe to be divided and deeply estranged to preserve and even extend their hegemonial grip.

With people like Putin and Trump in charge, now is the time to break free for Europe of being just a pawn in this chess game between these two superpowers.

The Post–World War II era ended, and more and more European politicians came to realize that we either start to shape the world in our favor by becoming truly independent or we will end up as an useful minion for the next hundred years.

I am completely astonished how so many of you seem to be willingly dismissing this opportunity just to stay in this lazy comfort zone we are currently locked into.

 

[Mimosa97]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

This is why Germany needs to start rebuilding their army and we should have a French/German grand army on the ready at all time so we can stop looking like weak ass bitches. EU countries shouldn't need the US for " protection ". We are rich and strong enough together.
Honestly isn't it time for Germany to have a real army again? WWII ended 70 years ago. I'm French and honestly I think most people would be okay with a joint army. We'll give you some nukes and you can use dat german engineering Inc. to build us some crazy shit.

I think the current decade has taught us Europeans one important lesson, neither the US nor the Russians are a truly reliable partner, they both want Europe to be divided and deeply estranged to preserve and even extend their hegemonial grip.

With people like Putin and Trump in charge, now is the time to break free for Europe of being just a pawn in this chess game between these two superpowers.

The Post–World War II era ended, and more and more European politicians came to realize that we either start to shape the world in our favor by becoming truly independent or we will end up as an useful minion for the next hundred years.

I am completely astonished how so many of you seem to be willingly dismissing this opportunity just to stay in this lazy comfort zone we are currently locked into.

I couldn't agree more. We have been saying that the US aren't a reliable partner for a long time but we were pretty much the only one and the americans hate us for that (remember the iraq war? ugh.)

Now that america's most loyal vassal are out of the EU it's time to break free and become truly independent.

 

[Irminsul]

The Post–World War II era ended, and more and more European politicians came to realize that we either start to shape the world in our favor by becoming truly independent or we will end up as an useful minion for the next hundred years.

Yeah, nothing says "shape the world in your favour" as simply accepting one of the old powers annexing territory from another souvereign nation.

 

[kingkaiser]

Well, opposing the annexion of sovereign territory doesn't equal the participation in sanctions that cripple your own economy but heavily favors your allegedly allies’ one, at least in my book.

This is why Germany needs to start rebuilding their army and we should have a French/German grand army on the ready at all time so we can stop looking like weak ass bitches. EU countries shouldn't need the US for " protection ". We are rich and strong enough together.

I agree, but there still is a very deeply held antimilitaristic sentiment here in Germany that quite frankly is naive and outdated. But yeah, it will need some time and persuasion to change the public opinion.

Uniting our both forces will happen, it's just a matter of time.

I already get messages about petitions to sign against our plan to build a new jet fighter together. It's hilarious how some people here in Germany are able to bury their head in the sand.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

I think the current decade has taught us Europeans one important lesson, neither the US nor the Russians are a truly reliable partner, they both want Europe to be divided and deeply estranged to preserve and even extend their hegemonial grip.

With people like Putin and Trump in charge, now is the time to break free for Europe of being just a pawn in this chess game between these two superpowers.

The Post–World War II era ended, and more and more European politicians came to realize that we either start to shape the world in our favor by becoming truly independent or we will end up as an useful minion for the next hundred years.

I am completely astonished how so many of you seem to be willingly dismissing this opportunity just to stay in this lazy comfort zone we are currently locked into.

Ehm... Literally your previous posts said we should accept a country invading another one because it was in their national security interest. Kind of conflicting posts, aren't they? What happens when Russia thinks: the Baltics are in our national security interest. Bit of Poland maybe. Eastern Germany? Get where I'm going with this?

Anyway, one thing is clear. Europe needs to get off Russian gas and oil, and off US military protection. Both things we can easily do with the right cooperation and investments over the next decades.

 

[Frankfurter]

I don't think so, our biggest military ally still is France and they are a nuclear power. Also, Putin is somewhat of a sneaky asshole, but he knows his limits.

Attacking any NATO country would be suicidal, not just for him but for our entire continent.

Securing the one and only warm water port was and is a crucial point for Russia's national security concept. We actually have to honor that, it's a simple geopolitical fact.

No, we don't. It's clearly illegal under international law and basically has not happened since the end of WW2. We mustn't accept it. Of course we have to accept that Crimea is de facto part of Russia for the moment, but we can't just slowly return back to normal like nothing happened. Sanctions must stay and whereever possible we should actually put new sanctions into place (but obviously it's difficult for the EU to do so because of the dependancy on Russian oil and gas).

I think the current decade has taught us Europeans one important lesson, neither the US nor the Russians are a truly reliable partner, they both want Europe to be divided and deeply estranged to preserve and even extend their hegemonial grip.

With people like Putin and Trump in charge, now is the time to break free for Europe of being just a pawn in this chess game between these two superpowers.

The Post–World War II era ended, and more and more European politicians came to realize that we either start to shape the world in our favor by becoming truly independent or we will end up as an useful minion for the next hundred years.

I am completely astonished how so many of you seem to be willingly dismissing this opportunity just to stay in this lazy comfort zone we are currently locked into.

By what metric would Russia be considered a superpower? Amount of nuclear bombs? Because that's the only one I could possibly think of right now.

It's not about being subservant to the US btw. and I don't see how the EU currently is.

Well, opposing the annexion of sovereign territory doesn't equal the participation in sanctions that cripple your own economy but heavily favors your allegedly allies' one, at least in my book.

The European Union is not part of those new US sanctions. Actually it has vocally called them out as... stupid.

 

[Ladekabel]

This is why Germany needs to start rebuilding their army and we should have a French/German grand army on the ready at all time so we can stop looking like weak ass bitches. EU countries shouldn't need the US for " protection ". We are rich and strong enough together.
Honestly isn't it time for Germany to have a real army again? WWII ended 70 years ago. I'm French and honestly I think most people would be okay with a joint army. We'll give you some nukes and you can use dat german engineering Inc. to build us some crazy shit.

For Germany to rebuild/strengthen the Bundeswehr it needs someone who knows how to buy equipment that isn't broken.

 

[kingkaiser]

Ehm... Literally your previous posts said we should accept a country invading another one because it was in their national security interest. Kind of conflicting posts, aren't they? What happens when Russia thinks: the Baltics are in our national security interest. Bit of Poland maybe. Eastern Germany? Get where I'm going with this?

The difference is that Ukraine is not part of the NATO.

To put it simple, we Europeans have our sphere of interest, the Russians and US have theirs. The problem is, we got dragged into a conflict between those two and are the one's paying the price for it.

Isn't it funny that France and Germany are the ones heavily into diplomatic solutions, with Minsk II, but the Russians and US are trying sabotage this at any point possible?

 

[ElTorro]

Lindner and the FDP continue to angle for potential AfD voters. Urgh.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...t-fuer-integrierte-fluechtlinge-15138174.html

 

[Ladekabel]

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...t-fuer-integrierte-fluechtlinge-15138174.html

So they also angle for potential Green voters, too? Does this party have no spine?

Spoiler

/s though I don't like the FDP.

 

[chadskin]

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...t-fuer-integrierte-fluechtlinge-15138174.html

Per their federal election manifestos:

FDP:

Das Grundrecht auf Asyl für individuell politisch Verfolgte ist für uns unantastbar. Für Kriegsflüchtlinge wollen wir einen eigenen Status schaffen, einen vorübergehenden humanitären Schutz, der auf die Dauer des Krieges begrenzt ist. Nach Identitätsfeststellung soll dieser Status unkompliziert verliehen und damit das Asylsystem massiv entlastet werden. Kriegsflüchtlinge sollen dabei nach Beendigung des Krieges in der Regel in ihr Heimatland zurückkehren.

AfD:

Entfällt der Fluchtgrund im Herkunftsland anerkannter Flüchtlinge, endet in aller Regel deren Aufenthaltserlaubnis. Sie müssen zurückkehren. Insbesondere der Schutz vor Bürgerkrieg ist rein temporär ausgelegt und darf nicht zu einer Einwanderung durch die Hintertür führen.

Current law:

Wer einmal vom Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge (BAMF) als Flüchtling anerkannt wurde, bleibt meist dauerhaft in Deutschland. Zwar werden Asyl und Flüchtlingsschutz nach der Genfer Konvention zeitlich befristet auf drei Jahre erteilt. Aber nach Ablauf dieser Frist haben die Betroffenen einen Rechtsanspruch auf unbefristeten Aufenthalt, die sogenannte Niederlassungserlaubnis.

Sprachlich und wirtschaftlich gut Integrierte können ihn direkt in Anspruch nehmen, weniger gut Integrierte nach weiteren zwei Jahren – vorausgesetzt, sie sind nicht wegen einer Straftat verurteilt oder überwiegend von Transferleistungen abhängig.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...e-Fluechtlinge-duerfen-dauerhaft-bleiben.html

Neither CDU/CSU nor SPD mention the temporary nature of granted asylum requests for refugees in their manifestos at all. What the NRW-FDP calls for here appears to be a further softening of the federal election manifesto, but it's also not the agreed upon view of the federal FDP.

FWIW, I'm not saying FDP = AfD = Nazis. Obviously in its manifesto the AfD dials it up to 11 on many issues of the larger immigration debate, often taking it far beyond what the FDP proposes but undeniably the FDP has been toughening its stance (e.g. on dual citizenship) or indeed shares proposals with the AfD, like a points-based immigration system similar to Canada's (and similar to the one Trump endorsed last week to much criticism) -- to the point where it finds itself to the right of CDU/CSU on this issue.

Bottom line, immigration has never been a hot button issue for the FDP in the past but between Lindner criticizing Merkel and FDP's toughened immigration policy, it's pretty evident what the FDP is trying to do.

 

[Kyougar]

The AFD one... Fucking lmao.
I'm not sure people will stop to read what is written on the FDP one.
Also what are those new ideas Schultz is talking about? Haven't heard anyting new from him yet.

He is saying that we need new ideas, not that he has them

 

[Xando]

Two more percent and the AFD fucks won't make it.

 

[Bedameister]

https://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_...ufhebung-der-Immunitaet-von-Frauke-Petry.html

Nice. I hope this party will tear itself apart before the election

 

[TanookiTom]

Two more percent and the AFD fucks won't make it.

As much as I would celebrate the AfD not making it into the Bundestag, I am also scared by the prospect of another CDU/FDP Koalition. This cannot fucking happen. By far the worst government in my conscious memory.

 

[Bedameister]

As much as I would celebrate the AfD not making it into the Bundestag, I am also scared by the prospect of another CDU/FDP Koalition. This cannot fucking happen. By far the worst government in my conscious memory.

Right now it doesn't look like there is another option. I also don't like this at all.

 

[Pezking]

As much as I would celebrate the AfD not making it into the Bundestag, I am also scared by the prospect of another CDU/FDP Koalition. This cannot fucking happen. By far the worst government in my conscious memory.

At least the prospect of having a liberal minister of justice again would be a silver lining.

I'm always very conflicted about the FDP. I love their approach to civil rights, data protection etc. (they're not nearly as spineless as the SPD in that regard), but I despise their economic policies and what they'd like to do to labor laws.

 

[Xando]

As much as I would celebrate the AfD not making it into the Bundestag, I am also scared by the prospect of another CDU/FDP Koalition. This cannot fucking happen. By far the worst government in my conscious memory.

I don’t understand this kind of thinking.

You‘d rather have nazis in parliament instead of some democratic party you don’t agree with in government?

 

[TanookiTom]

I don't understand this kind of thinking.

You‘d rather have nazis in parliament instead of some democratic party you don't agree with in government?

No? I find both good things in this poll (AfD going lower and lower) and bad aspects: Another CDU/FDP government. Sorry if I was unclear about that ;-)

And "some democratic party you don't agree with" is a mild understatement. I think CDU/FDP could do a lot of damage in times when we desperately need to move to the left and curb corporate interests instead of protecting/strengthening them.

At least the prospect of having a liberal minister of justice again would be a silver lining.

I'm always very conflicted about the FDP. I love their approach to civil rights, data protection etc. (they're not nearly as spineless as the SPD in that regard), but I despise their economic policies and what they'd like to do to labor laws.

I really can't see anything good about that. In the last CDU/FDP government the FDP proved to be nothing but spineless and neoliberal imo. The only hope I have is that they learned from their horrible mistakes.

 

[Fritz]

No? I find both good things in this poll (AfD going lower and lower) and bad aspects: Another CDU/FDP government. Sorry if I was unclear about that ;-)

And "some democratic party you don't agree with" is a mild understatement. I think CDU/FDP could do a lot of damage in times when we desperately need to move to the left and curb corporate interests instead of protecting/strengthening them.



I really can't see anything good about that. In the last CDU/FDP government the FDP proved to be nothing but spineless and neoliberal imo. The only hope I have is that they learned from their horrible mistakes.

There were also times when the FDP had much closer ties to the SPD and was really much more about personal liberties than about "corporate liberties". I'd be so happy about a proper liberal party. I think we need that more than left or right policies.


Also you're being totally hyperbolic but okay, it's Wahlkampf.

 

[Orniletter]

I'm just happy that Schulz's attempts to bring american-esque hyperbolic personal attacks to germany and tapping into populism ("attack on democracy", his latest Bundeswehr remarks, "need for change" when the vast majority is pretty well off here) are falling on deaf ears.

I give him props for getting gay marriage through, but he is so fucking terrible at reading the temperature in the room.


Edit: The Bundeswehr remarks are the prime example.
Like I'm certainly not some jingoistic dick, who wants us to return to the glory days of the German Empire. We are in the process of reshaping europe's position on the worldstage due to the United States's decline of influence (or more like abdication of power). We need a functional, well equipped military. We just need it.
It's not the 90s anymore.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I'm just happy that Schulz's attempts to bring american-esque hyperbolic personal attacks to germany and tapping into populism ("attack on democracy", his latest Bundeswehr remarks, "need for change" when the vast majority is pretty well off here) are falling on deaf ears.

Not that I liked that one single remake that he made about Merkel, but the only thing that is hyperbolic is this post.

 

[Fritz]

I'm just happy that Schulz's attempts to bring american-esque hyperbolic personal attacks to germany and tapping into populism ("attack on democracy", his latest Bundeswehr remarks, "need for change" when the vast majority is pretty well off here) are falling on deaf ears.

I give him props for getting gay marriage through, but he is so fucking terrible at reading the temperature in the room.

I feel exactly the same about him.

He has a slight air of vanity or arrogance to him, ignorance at best.

 

[Xando]

Not that I liked that one single remake that he made about Merkel, but the only thing that is hyperbolic is this post.

No offense but Schulz has been throwing every populist idea he had at Merkel. The current election campaign just shows the SPD doesn’t really have anything of notice.

If they had a message to get across Schulz wouldn’t try to throw so much shit at her.

I‘m a lifelong SPD voter in Hamburg but nothing can get me to vote for the Bundes SPD.

 

[Yoshi]

As much as I would celebrate the AfD not making it into the Bundestag, I am also scared by the prospect of another CDU/FDP Koalition. This cannot fucking happen. By far the worst government in my conscious memory.

CDU/FDP coalition is a bad thing in my eyes as a left green voter (who cannot vote for the greens this time due to their far right - in terms of the party - top personell), but there is a huge right majority right now, counting CDU / CSU / FDP / AfD. So if this, or something similar, is the result of the election, then I want them to form a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition. We cannot last on great coalitions all the time, this is destroying democracy. Have a left majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because god forbid anyone works with the left. Have a right majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because of AfD. This cannot and should not be the way we proceed, otherwise why even have elections. Either way, Merkel wins, this much is clear.

As it is looking right now, SPD should definitily open up for a coalition with the left right now, officially, to get this out of the way for the next election. It will hurt them once, but the impact shouldn't be as big the next time around. Better take the hit now than in four years. SPD-led two-party coalitions are not going to happen anymore.

 

[Frankfurter]

No? I find both good things in this poll (AfD going lower and lower) and bad aspects: Another CDU/FDP government. Sorry if I was unclear about that ;-)

And "some democratic party you don't agree with" is a mild understatement. I think CDU/FDP could do a lot of damage in times when we desperately need to move to the left and curb corporate interests instead of protecting/strengthening them.



I really can't see anything good about that. In the last CDU/FDP government the FDP proved to be nothing but spineless and neoliberal imo. The only hope I have is that they learned from their horrible mistakes.

FDP was spineless except for civil rights (etc.). They stopped quite a few things from happening that the current CDU/CSU/SPD coalition ultimately did.
Still rooting for either CDU/CSU/FDP/Greens or SPD/FDP/Greens - as unlikely as both coalitions may be :/

 

[Xando]

CDU/FDP coalition is a bad thing in my eyes as a left green voter (who cannot vote for the greens this time due to their far right - in terms of the party - top personell), but there is a huge right majority right now, counting CDU / CSU / FDP / AfD. So if this, or something similar, is the result of the election, then I want them to form a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition. We cannot last on great coalitions all the time, this is destroying democracy. Have a left majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because god forbid anyone works with the left. Have a right majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because of AfD. This cannot and should not be the way we proceed, otherwise why even have elections. Either way, Merkel wins, this much is clear.

As it is looking right now, SPD should definitily open up for a coalition with the left right now, officially, to get this out of the way for the next election. It will hurt them once, but the impact shouldn't be as big the next time around. Better take the hit now than in four years. SPD-led two-party coalitions are not going to happen anymore.

A SPD-LEFT coalition will be a death sentence for SPD. Just like a CDU/AFD coalition this will kill their centrist votes

 

[Bitch Pudding]

As it is looking right now, SPD should definitily open up for a coalition with the left right now, officially, to get this out of the way for the next election.

Well, I'm a FDP voter and I also hope they'll do that. Nothing mobilizes conservative voters in Germany more than the prospect of a Red-Red coalition.

 

[Yoshi]

FDP was spineless except for civil rights (etc.). They stopped quite a few things from happening that the current CDU/CSU/SPD coalition ultimately did.
Still rooting for either CDU/CSU/FDP/Greens or SPD/FDP/Greens - as unlikely as both coalitions may be :/

Having the FDP in a coalition with the SPD will drive the SPD to even further go into a neoliberal direction with their social politics, which is the primary reason the left even got so strong and the SPD fell into a coma.

A SPD-LEFT coalition will be a death sentence for SPD. Just like a CDU/AFD coalition this will kill their centrist votes

Announcing the will to do a coalition with the left will hurt them once, but this in itself will not shock anyone anymore in a repeated case. The SPD has to stomach the losses through this once if they ever want to form a coalition they lead again. Considering the programmatic similarities between SPD and the left (and also the greens) each and every time there's general election, this would be the most natural coalition. Major issues of social justice like necessary tax raises in the upper income levels and Bürgerversicherung will never be tackled under any other coalition. Having no way of realising a left majority damages both, democracy in general and the SPD in particular. Should the AfD establish themselves over the next ten years as a moderate-right party, I would say the same thing about them as I say now about the left, when it comes to coalitions with CDU / CSU / FDP. As it stands now, AfD and the left are not comparable.

 

[El Topo]

If SPD decided to work with Linkspartei I would immediately rule them out for me.

 

[ShadowOwl]

Well, I'm a FDP voter [...]

Can please elaborate why you are intending to vote for the FDP? Honestly, I'm very curious about it.

Maybe you can point out good reasons for the current FDP surge while you are at it (other than Lindner bring all over the place). They haven't changed their political agenda at all since their huge downfall during the last Union-FDP coalition.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

No offense but Schulz has been throwing every populist idea he had at Merkel. The current election campaign just shows the SPD doesn’t really have anything of notice.

If they had a message to get across Schulz wouldn’t try to throw so much shit at her.

I‘m a lifelong SPD voter in Hamburg but nothing can get me to vote for the Bundes SPD.

Acting like this is US Election 2.0 is still bullshit

 

[oti]

Can please elaborate why you are intending to vote for the FDP? Honestly, I'm very curious about it.

Maybe you can point out good reasons for the current FDP surge agile you are at it (other than Lindner bring all over the place). They haven't changed their political agenda at all since their huge downfall during the last Union-FDP coalition.

He's old and rich. What else do you need?

Spoiler

Love you, Bitch. <3

I love that the Wahlkampf is so utterly boring again. Despite some bad attempts by Shulz to stir up drama.

 

[Xando]

Announcing the will to do a coalition with the left will hurt them once, but this in itself will not shock anyone anymore in a repeated case. The SPD has to stomach the losses through this once if they ever want to form a coalition they lead again. Considering the programmatic similarities between SPD and the left (and also the greens) each and every time there's general election, this would be the most natural coalition. Major issues of social justice like necessary tax raises in the upper income levels and Bürgerversicherung will never be tackled under any other coalition. Having no way of realising a left majority damages both, democracy in general and the SPD in particular. Should the AfD establish themselves over the next ten years as a moderate-right party, I would say the same thing about them as I say now about the left, when it comes to coalitions with CDU / CSU / FDP. As it stands now, AfD and the left are not comparable.

No the SPD going into a coalition with the left will make them a sub 20% party once and for all. There is no majority for a hard left government and a hard left coalition will scare away the only voters the SPD has left(Centrist with a tick to the left) after agenda 2010.

The lefts position on a number of things are basically the leftist equivalent of the AFD.

Look at their positions on NATO, on trade, on russia, on economics.

Look at Venezuala to see what a Wagenknecht government would look like.

Tell germans they should accept tax increases(even though we’re second in most paid taxes in europe) and watch the SPD drop dead like a rock.

Acting like this is US Election 2.0 is still bullshit

Well maybe US election was a bit much but his populist attempts have been pretty shit

 

[Frankfurter]

Having the FDP in a coalition with the SPD will drive the SPD to even further go into a neoliberal direction with their social politics, which is the primary reason the left even got so strong and the SPD fell into a coma.

Everyone would have to compromise, it won't be just the SPD moving towards more neoliberalism. SPD needs to open itself for more coalition options anyway. Either towards the Linke or towards the FDP. Unless they wanna be stuck in being the junior party in a coalition with CDU/CSU forever.

 

[Orniletter]

I feel exactly the same about him.

He has a slight air of vanity or arrogance to him, ignorance at best.

Hit the nail on the head.

CDU/FDP coalition is a bad thing in my eyes as a left green voter (who cannot vote for the greens this time due to their far right - in terms of the party - top personell), but there is a huge right majority right now, counting CDU / CSU / FDP / AfD. So if this, or something similar, is the result of the election, then I want them to form a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition. We cannot last on great coalitions all the time, this is destroying democracy. Have a left majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because god forbid anyone works with the left. Have a right majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because of AfD. This cannot and should not be the way we proceed, otherwise why even have elections. Either way, Merkel wins, this much is clear.

As it is looking right now, SPD should definitily open up for a coalition with the left right now, officially, to get this out of the way for the next election. It will hurt them once, but the impact shouldn't be as big the next time around. Better take the hit now than in four years. SPD-led two-party coalitions are not going to happen anymore.

Yes, god forbid the Left get into power, indeed. They are the party of simple, unworkable answers for extremely complex questions and problems.
They are the AfD of the left without the racism. Preying on the poorly educated with their garbage platform, stuck in perpetual opposition and screaming from the rooftops how the policies and plans put forth by the parties actually doing the work just aren't good enough.

I'm toying wit the idea of voting for our local SPD candidate with my first vote (because it's always really close between CDU and SPD here in Bonn II and the CDU MP is bad) but announcing an official coalition bid (or whatever you'd want to call it) would kill that idea fast.

 

[Yoshi]

No the SPD going into a coalition with the left will make them a sub 20% party once and for all. There is no majority for a hard left government and a hard left coalition will scare away the only voters the SPD has left(Centrist with a tick to the left) after agenda 2010.

The lefts position on a number of things are basically the leftist equivalent of the AFD.

Look at their positions on NATO, on trade, on russia, on economics.

Three things:
1. I doubt that this would make them a sub 20% party permanently
2. Just take a look at green policies before they went into a coalition with SPD and afterwards. They had very extreme positions on foreign policies and all of them were swept away right away. It was not a major focus of their policies and an easy thing to give up. Same will happen if the left enter a government
3. In general, you are acting like the left would suddenly decide everything on their own if they enter a coalition. I claim it would be disastrous for the left if they insisted on their crude foreign policies to the point of rendering improvements in social justice that would only be possible under a red-red-green coalition, impossible. As a small party, the left has a core topic, which is social justice in economical terms. If major advancements in this central topic are made (Hartz 4, tax distribution, social insurances), a coalition they are part of would be successful in the eyes of their voters, even if NATO is not even brought up in the slightest. Similar to how the red-green coalition was a success to green voters due to major advancements in green energies and nuclear power.

Regarding the tax issues, yes this is indeed a bit problematic, because people continue to easily fall for claims that something to their personal disadvantage may happen, when in reality, only very rich people would be affected negatively. Case in point the tax concept of Trittin last election, which was only "expensive" to people who earn a shitton of money. However, due to inflation, the middle incomes are negatively affected by time, so a reform is necessary and I indeed think that a taxing closer to the 1997 level for highest income levels is fair and the right way to go.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Can please elaborate why you are intending to vote for the FDP? Honestly, I'm very curious about it.

Nope, because I feel absolutely no need to justify my vote for a centric democratic party. Please wonder.

 

[TanookiTom]

CDU/FDP coalition is a bad thing in my eyes as a left green voter (who cannot vote for the greens this time due to their far right - in terms of the party - top personell), but there is a huge right majority right now, counting CDU / CSU / FDP / AfD. So if this, or something similar, is the result of the election, then I want them to form a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition. We cannot last on great coalitions all the time, this is destroying democracy. Have a left majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because god forbid anyone works with the left. Have a right majority? CDU / CSU / SPD, because of AfD. This cannot and should not be the way we proceed, otherwise why even have elections. Either way, Merkel wins, this much is clear.

As it is looking right now, SPD should definitily open up for a coalition with the left right now, officially, to get this out of the way for the next election. It will hurt them once, but the impact shouldn't be as big the next time around. Better take the hit now than in four years. SPD-led two-party coalitions are not going to happen anymore.

Yeah I definitely agree with the bolded parts, so sadly this doesn't leave a lot of appealing options. I think SPD also needs to get out of grand coalitions just to find itself again.

FDP was spineless except for civil rights (etc.). They stopped quite a few things from happening that the current CDU/CSU/SPD coalition ultimately did.
Still rooting for either CDU/CSU/FDP/Greens or SPD/FDP/Greens - as unlikely as both coalitions may be :/

Well here is hoping that Lindner learned from past mistakes. In some regards this seems to be true at least.

In the current political climate I even find it hard to say what would be my preferred outcome, but I guess it would be a left-wing coalition, however unlikely that seems at the moment. And with SPD and Greens in their current state, I am not even sure if that would be all that great actually :/
I actually preferred Steinbrück to Schulz...

 

[G.ZZZ]

Centric democratic parties are another word for corporatist parties that increased inequality massively in the last 40 years.

Can't wait for my corporate overlords indeed. People can't seems to learn.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Centric democratic parties are another word for corporatist parties that increased inequality massively in the last 40 years.

Can't wait for my corporate overlords indeed. People can't seems to learn.

 

[Yoshi]

Nope, because I feel absolutely no need to justify my vote for a centric democratic party. Please wonder.

Asking for the reasons why one votes for a party is not an insult, saying what promises and policies of a party you like and which sway you to vote for them is something that is at the core of political discussions in a representative democracy. Why do you see it as porblematic of explaining what you find attractive in the FDP's propositions? Because even among the centric democratic parties there are obviously reasons to vote for one over the other. I can imagine some reasons to vote for the FDP, but naturally, as a leftist myself, it is easier to me to give reasons for the three left leaning parties, so I indeed would also be interested in this.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Thats actually not the worst graphic. Gonna save that one

 

[Sloane]

Would love to see the AfD drop even further but I'm pretty sure they'll stabilize around 6-7%. As for CDU-FDP, yeah, that would be pretty shitty but I also understand people being sick of CDU-SPD without any opposition. Would probably help the SPD, too, in the long run.