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[Kid Goku]

It is when the populace isn't welcoming. Immigrants don't purposefully create immigrant districts, the locals often shun them or move away over time. Integration isn't unidirectional.
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I think so far this is the most accurate post I've read in this topic. It's really a problem you can't solve so easily if at all. To me integration is much more than learning a language and most of the time the fault isn't even with the people trying to integrate but the people shutting them down (understandably so). It's really a very very deep issue.

 

[oreomunsta]

This seems pretty damn logical, if you ask me. Grant migrants access into your country, and expect that if they stay, they will integrate and contribute to your country after a reasonable accommodation period.

Why give them a free ride after they're safe and accommodated?

 

[Ogodei]

Multiculturalism works to a certain degree if the society is already sufficiently diverse, like in South Africa, India, or Singapore. Multiculturalism within a widely monolithic society just creates friction because you're introducing clear "others" to a society that hasn't often had them, and this adds unconscious bias that they must fight against, along with the conscious, above-board challenges. Tiny minorities will feel isolated and self-isolate in response.

I do think that living there you would have to obey all laws equally. For instance, in the case of migrants who refuse to have their daughters educated, do whatever you would do for a German citizen-family who refused to abide by truancy laws, except don't approach them in a hostile manner to put them on the defensive. If it involves taking their children away, ultimately, then so be it.

Edit: I do think speaking an official language of any EU country should at least get them a pass. Many Syrians probably still remember French, for instance.

 

[Kralamoonard]

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

I don't think this would be as common as you think...I mean I don't the refugees would be that extreme or over the top, right? I mean to do that would be idiotic to say the least. I mean there's not a religious imperative for them to do that, so unless they've just got some dated ass traditions to stick towards to, I don't see this becoming a problem.

Would you apply that standard to those who come from other EU countries but do not speak fluent German?

It strikes me that this broader issue is not about speaking German. All EEA countries readily accept other Europeans to live and work there without any test for fluency. I promise I won't take it as an insult if you tell me I should not be allowed to live or work in Germany, but I am, and I'm not sure how we can square this with the expectation here.

It strikes me that this is more about the cultural foreignness and "incompatibility" of those coming. Unfortunately trying to draw a line based on "compatibility" based on religion, country of origin, cultural values etc. is unpalatable, and so people find proxies, like language fluency, because those seem more rational and less discriminatory of a signal about willingness to integrate.

Like I said, it's very understandable to me that we would connect language to employment services, encourage it, make it easy to learn the language, teach the language in school for children, generally pipeline people into learning the language. I just don't see it as a sensible bright line because of how things are already set up.

(I also understand that the volume of new migrants poses a challenge that individual, voluntarily migration from other EU countries does not, but we generally establish rules and regulations that apply to individuals equally irrespective of their broader group membership.)

God damn. Stump, your posts in this thread have been nothing short of fantastic and eye opening.

 

[Kralamoonard]

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[Kyuur]

I see no problem with it, the means of 'measurement' they have proposed are very fair. I'd expect the same thing of an immigrant coming to Canada.

 

[Dingens]

You would've thought this would be mandatory anyway but welcome news nonetheless.

it is mandatory... this is nothing more than trying to appease voters, because most people have actually now idea how immigration in their own country truly works. This guy tries to pose as tough to oppose the AFD and other right wing lunatics. It's something you can see in many European countries lately... selling old policy as new and strict.

German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said he is planning a new law that will require refugees to learn German and integrate into society, or else lose their permanent right of residence.

I think this is a little bit misleading. refugees don't have permanent right of residence. infact they are on shacky ground as compared to other types of resident permits.
What he meant to say was:

"For those who refuse to learn German, for those who refuse to allow their relatives to integrate - for instance women or girls - for those who reject job offers: for them, there cannot be an unlimited settlement permit after three years," he said.

If you happen to live in an EU country for 5 or more years and are well integrated you can apply for a permanent resident permit (in most cases). It's probably the same for refugees as well, but it's just as likely that the reason for granting them asylum fades in the meantime.
There was a huge uproar a few years back about a family that integrated perfectly, but had to leave because it hadn't been 5 years yet and their permit expired because their home country wasn't considered unsafe any more and they lost their right for asylum