What it needed was a good script and a smaller, more focused budget.
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Ghost in the Shell bombs at the box office
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What it needed was a good script and a smaller, more focused budget.
Did you mean a different movie?
TDLink
Member
That doesn't mean any anime movie is destined to be a failure. Gits was better than the first 2, which were awful, but it was still bland and mediocre. How about we see what happens when they actually make a good anime adaptation, which I think is possible.
You're almost definitely overestimating the amount of influence critics have. Critics cannot stop every Transformers movie from rocketing to 300 million dollars. It's a property people are just interested in.
People are just not interested in Ghost in the Shell, as it's currently presented. It's been ~20 years since the Matrix. There's an argument to be made that cyberpunk just isn't in fashion anymore.
It was especially going to bomb because it cost 110 million to make.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Regardless a humanoid alien doesn't have to look white.
No worries. I should have made sure to put something like "else" after that to make it easier to recognize.
Books are, from my point of view, a lot easier to adapt, so the chance is higher that it works out.
here's the map of Dragon Ball's Earth
so as you can see, there is a section of the map called "west capital" I believe that is where bulma is from, whereas grandpa gohan's home is all the way over in the east. bulma's got the unrealistic blue hair but she also has blue eyes, her mother has blonde hair so it is semi-consistent with the real world earth that the western people are based on more European features.
the fanmade video light of hope got the casting right, in my opinion. They made bulma white, gohan asian, and trunks asian (presumably half white)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opji5DgE_nQ
I think the fact that there was a lot of backlash over Chatwin, despite the fact that DB is on a highly fictionalized Earth (and therefore has more wiggle room than GitS) shows that people didn't want a goofy White Goku. At least the people who were DBZ fans, who were the only ones willing to watch that movie based on the Box Office returns.
Whitewashing probably played a role in the failure at the DOM BO but I don't think it was the main reason it failed. That doesn't mean it's OK and should be given a pass.
The trailers didn't grab attention, most people don't know or don't care about the source material, the reviews were mediocre, throw in the controversy about whitewashing and you get a shitty OW and no legs to speak of.
The trailers didn't grab attention, most people don't know or don't care about the source material, the reviews were mediocre, throw in the controversy about whitewashing and you get a shitty OW and no legs to speak of.
Pretty much. You're delusional if you think people didn't go to watch it because of this "controversy", people by and large didn't have this on their radar, amen.
TDLink
Member
It would have bombed either way after turning out its not that great. The movie had potential to be much better than it was and that wasn't delivered on.
Z..
Member
My exact point. You think it's trying to come off as smart when it's actually about as restrained as it could be considering what it is paying homage to. It's the opposite of try hard, considering.
Also, ignorance and intelligence are 2 different things. According to the only IQ test I was ever subjected to, my intelligence is a bit below average. Point being, you don't need to be smart, you need to know what it's talking about. Hence ignorance being the problem, not intelligence.
Again, try watching Stalker or Seventh Seal and you'll understand what I'm trying to tell you here. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and think this is an e-penis war or something.
TBH if GitS is as good as it gets then I'd say nothing of value was lost.
Hollywood doesn't care about Anime unless it has Miyazaki's name on it and it's been dubbed by Disney.
Ex Machina is fantastic and the closest thing to a Ghost in the Shell movie and only cost 15 million to make.
With a good writer and some District 9 level good FX I reckon an interesting ghost in the Shell movie could be made for like 30 million.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Well the earth he's on doesn't matter since he's not from said Earth, he's from an alien planet much like the Man of Steel. If Superman took place on a different "Earth" than our Earth he would still be constantly cast as white and seen as such.
Why? Because white is seen as the default in America so anything else has to be explicitly stated as to not be considered white.
The same thing applies to Japan, Korea or any other homogeneous country, their default would be whatever majority of the population/most influence would be. Korean cartoons/manhwa are always seen as Korean/Asian unless explicitly stated, bring their work to America and many Americans will see them as white until explicitly that they're not and even then fierce debates erupt if it's not made obvious enough, the same applies to Japan, that would apply to say UAE, to China, etc.
Also because white is seen as the default in America, white characters can be more expressive in their design and look without people questioning their whiteness. White characters can have any and all kinds of hair styles and colors, manners of speech, and even language usage (Sure her name might be 'Tsukino Usagi' and lives in Tokyo Japan with Japanese friends going to a Japanese school speaking Japanese, eating Japanese, but she has blonde hair and blue eyes therefore all of that is invalidated; she's white because Asians don't have blonde hair, blue eyes). Whereas minority characters have to be based on their real life counterparts closely for American audiences to see them as not white. Asian characters can't have wild hair/eye color combinations because real life Asians don't have said hair color/eye combinations, their eyes can't be big because their eyes are "small" and "slanted".
Into the Light
Banned
I have a real question:
How much is social push back as opposed to just a bad movie?
How much is social push back as opposed to just a bad movie?
TDLink
Member
That's a failure of the specific film and the marketing, not all anime to film adaptations ever.
Dark Ninja
Member
The amount budget to make anything Ghost in The Shell related would never be "small" the cg budget alone would automatically make it very expensive and risky. They could have it take place in a hallway, a really narrow hallway.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
We're getting Tomb Raider, possibly Watch Dogs, and possibly Metal Gear Solid that the Kong director passionately wants to make. It's not dead.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
We did it <3
Probably like 0.1%
If anything the controversy probably boosted sales by a few mil.
Apocryphon
Member
Not enough of either to make anyone realize the errors they've made, apparently.
Honestly homages seem like better avenues than adaptations. See: Chronicle, Pacific Rim, Inception, Black Swan, and, of course, The Matrix.
As the article alluded to, such a thing is impossible to quantify. We don't have exit polls for moviegoers.
That said I think it being a lackluster movie harmed it more than the whitewashing because the cynic in me doesn't believe the American movie going audience is socially or politically literate.
I saw it on Friday and quite enjoyed it. It's a shame so much negativity has floated around this film, especially considering that the original Japanese director supported the project and the casting choices.
That said, I do understand the politics behind the complaints to some extent.
That said, I do understand the politics behind the complaints to some extent.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Fuccccckkkkk anime movies.
"Die Die Die" -- Reaper
"Die Die Die" -- Reaper
Look at where all these reviewers mention the Whitewashing:
It's especially evident in the Critics Consensus:
"Critics Consensus: Ghost in the Shell boasts cool visuals and a compelling central performance from Scarlett Johansson, but the end result lacks the magic of the movie's classic source material."
Yep, definitely a major issue for critics was the white washing.
Yes, some reviewers briefly mentioned the idea of it being "Westernized" but the main issue critics seem to have is that it's a dumbed down version of a cerebral "classic".
Movie viewers are more savvy than ever these days and if a film's marketing is bad (This film's marketing was bad) then they will do their due diligence and wait for reviews/word of mouth.
You realize those are just quotes of the reviews and not the actual reviews?
Might want to actually read a couple of the full reviews, or find a better example of consensus than just five quotes on the first page.
Tomb Raider's casting rumors were going around before Warcraft even came out, so that movie was gonna come out regardless of how well or poor Warcraft and Assassin's Creed did.
As for the other two, I thought we will ever see those movies come out.
We might get an Uncharted movie but that's gone through countless writers and directors over the years.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Unfortunately we have no way to realistically figure out how much more money this movie could have made without the negative white washing buzz this movie has received since information about the film first appeared, and how many movie goers that buzz kept from seeing the film. In addition, any positive press this movie could have received had this film had no white washing and how that positive press could have increased the number of viewers. The best comparison film we have is Lucy and that only works in regards to both films being in the sci-fi genre and the lead actress being the same, which doesn't take into account different marketing/etc...
All they needed to do was have a nuanced portrayal of the racial implications and potential cultural appropriation issues. It was possible to have a white Danny Rand and still nail it. But they hired Scott Buck.
andythinkpad
Member
No I don't.
Are we... are we going to nitpick that?
And then you say this...
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Neither are the main reason, which was that the concept doesn't have mass appeal.
The Artisan
Member
of course. i wanted an Asian Goku. Now, just like Iron Fist, that would not have saved it...but, it would have been one less thing to complain about
I don't get this line of thinking.
If Jack and Jill is as good as it gets then I'd say no more movies should be made.
ronaldthump
Member
Box office mojo clearly noted that it was review sensitive
Got me good 😂😂😂
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The point is it's never dead. Hollywood will take a break a year or two but they'll always be back. I'm already predicting Tomb Raider will give them confidence to keep going.
TDLink
Member
The actual decent amount of Asian actors with prominent roles in the film (for a Hollywood movie) was barely featured in the marketing.
Well that's the kind of the point though. We were told that ScarJo being a white bankable star would be this panacea that would carry the movie to roaring success while an asian lead would doom the movie to abject failure. Turns out that wasn't the case at all but it won't stop Hollywood from shutting minorities out of leading roles.
I read through the first six reviews. Two of them mention the controversy in passing as a preamble to the actual review, the others don't mention it at all.
What the reviews ALL mention though, is that it's a bad movie.
So if suddenly people are massing in droves to read the full text of every review (laughably unlikely, btw) then the consensus they get is "this is a bad movie because it botched the high concept shit" not "don't watch this because of whitewashing".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Hollywood's, bullshit, I'm just trying to be realistic here.
Of course Aloha doesn't qualify, since Emma Stone is a well known Asian American actress.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
The marketing sucked. The movie sucks. I'm not surprised it bombed.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I wouldn't have a problem with Clark Kent being anything other than white. The New 52 made Lois Lane half hispanic. And yes there is a black Superman who's from Earth 2. And there is a Chinese Superman in the main DC universe.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
This flopped because their marketing money shots were a slow mo shot of Scarjo jumping through glass, some guy doing a wild flip in ankle high water, and ScarJo doing a slow mo walk towards the camera in a off-white suit.
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