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Ghost in the Shell bombs at the box office
- Thread starter Korey
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Probably would have been cheaper to make without her though so ¯\_(ツ_/¯
Yea i agree but im just saying you know/
The people saying the controversy had nothing to do with it doing bad, and it was the source material are obviously too young to remember a little major box office and critical success called The Matrix. Or Terminator. Or Chronicle. Or any other handful of sci-fi films. Because those all owe so much to anime.
UnemployedVillain
Member
The characters make the show though. It's one thing to remove background characters, but Ed is part of the core group. Take them away and you're left with
Sure. I have no problem saying the system is broken as it is.
I don't know if you forgot or not, but we elected Donald Trump to the presidency a few months ago.
In that context, the narrative of "Audiences are finally standing up against Hollywood's racist hiring practices" seems flat-out stupid. Even overt racism is not that problematic for half of the country.
In that context, the narrative of "Audiences are finally standing up against Hollywood's racist hiring practices" seems flat-out stupid. Even overt racism is not that problematic for half of the country.
jack_package_200
Banned
Directed by Robert Rodriguez and starring a latina as the lead.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Probably would have been cheaper to make without her though so ¯\_(ツ
That was exactly my point. Scarlett Johansson was the highest paid female actor in 2016. She was paid ~6 mil for her each Marvel movie she was in. A lesser known actress could have saved them millions
This is hilarious for some reason.
And the Air Nomads are Tibetan and the Fire Nation has some Japanese elements.
But yeah the whole "they're not from Earth" thing is just vacuous. No one argues that Jon Snow isnt necessarily white because Westeros totally isn't Europe.
GuitarAtomik
Member
To be fair, I think if they were going to learn that lesson, they would have learned it a long time ago. This isn't the first movie starring a bankable actor to bomb. That's been happening for just about the entire history of "bankable" actors.
Lights and Waves
Member
I wonder if Hollywood groups anime and video game adaptations in the same category.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The characters make the show though. It's one thing to remove background characters, but Ed is part of the core group. Take them away and you're left with
Then again Firefly is the closest we got to a Cowboy Bebob like adaptation.
Ya but then you get films that are propped up entirely by the face on the poster and they forget the lessons of the past.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Nostalgic 30 somethings are dying to see hard R movies based on eccentric nerdy source material. It's actually better that the source material is not super familiar because that would make for no surprises for the greater audience.
The dumpster fire category?
Stop it.
I hope they realize this and stop trying to adapt anything.
The Artisan
Member
I think Ra's gets a break because for many he was a pretty shit character to them before that.
Suddenly people all on the Ra's bandwagon.
He was advertised as Japanese
However when Arrow cast a white-ish actor people had a problem with it.
it did not make any sense to make him Japanese either, because Ra's al Ghul is an Arabic phrase...so what the fuck was Nolan doing
jack_package_200
Banned
Ya'll better be hype for the newest entryin most diverse action hero franchise in cinema F8 of the Furious.
Perhaps but at least the Resident Evil movies consistently make a profit. They at least understand their audience.
Perhaps but at least the Resident Evil movies consistently make a profit. They at least understand their audience.
Stop what? He's right.
Whitewashing is an issue and hopefully it will stop but lets not pretend like the average movie goers cares about whitewashing or even knows it's a thing.
Trying to figure out how to get Liam fucking Neeson into his movie?
Zombie shit is always bankable.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Hopefully they don't learn the wrong lessons from this.
Yeah, I mean good luck finding a quality white actor that speaks fluent Japanese but if we're going for appropriation then he should have been white, or some mix of it.
You make sense, and I agree with you, but... it's not on Earth so I feel like there's a scapegoat there.
Also if you're talking about the ending of Akira then please don't tell me. I watched a quarter of it then fell asleep. I'm just approaching it from as far as I know which is it's set in Japan and the main character is Japanese. If something else happens then I don't know and my example doesn't make sense but don't tell me lol.
StarCreator
Member
If you read far enough into the manga, you'll find
it took place in the US to begin with
The Artisan
Member
so he whitewashed a role to get a high profile actor in it. does that make it okay?
If I were a wrestler, I would totally want this to be my nickname.
Also, c'mon dude. It was a brought up in almost every discussion of this movie on social media. It had an effect.
UnemployedVillain
Member
And you have to have your head in the sand if you think it hasn't affected it. If someone had never heard of "Ghost in the Shell" and googled it right when the movie came out, or even leading up to it, the majority of results would either be negative reviews or controversy over the whitewashing. Even now, the top 3 types of results it gets are
1. Reviews
2. It bombing
3. The whitewashing
That's how dominant the issue is with regards to the movie
So Ed exactly as she is in the show is the only thing stopping Cowboy Bebop from becoming Firefly? That seems like a very reductive argument and ignores the fact that many episodes either don't feature Ed at all or relegate her to a side character; she only actually has one episode to herself after her introduction.
The show works before Ed joins and it works after Ed leaves. Even then they wouldn't have to cut her, all you'd need to do is tone down her hyper-active character ever-so-slightly to be more fitting for a Western audience. The themes and style are what make Cowboy Bebop to me; very few shows/films have replicated them, it's those that need to be carried over not just "Ed needs to do the same exact things she does in the TV show."
Vigilant Walrus
Member
You'd hope that this is a sign of a global repudiation of these types of action blockbusters like Transformers and Pirates of the Caribbean, but given the mad money those make, I don't think we're at that place.
Hollywood has needed competition from a competitive collective since it's very beginning. For almost 100 years it has reigned supreme as the sole echo chamber of which how we set the international standards of film in terms of cultural influence. Yes, the rest of the world has provided many of the best films ever made since the beginning of film, but it is American film- or specifically Hollywood that is the global monopoly. What the Hollywood machine creates on a constant basis is a major task to do once for a Russian, European or Asian studio.
Hollywoods army of specialized sub film disicplines are unparalleled. It cannot be overstated just how much the difference in resources, budget and expertise is. In Europe, we need our government to subsidize most of our films because they don't make money. Our films are a cultural export, and in most of our countries, nobody watch local films compared to the big Hollywood hits. Stunts, CGI, scope and size- It's just not comparable to America.
For the last 15-25 years, since we began to see the allure of going to watch film based on the allure of "well, the story wasn't that great, but it looked amazing" would have had to catch up them. There is nothing wrong with CGI, but for too long it has drawn in audiences to watch something despite the mediocre story.
Perhaps we've reached a point where we are so hard to impress visually with CGI effects that we simply don't care anymore. That doesn't pull us into the theater anymore, and as a result, Hollywood needs to reinvent itself to learn itself how to tell good stories.
What you want ideally, is competition to Hollywood to arise up. It would be very interesting if competing hotbeds of movie studios around the world could arise. Not only to increase the diversity of film and the type of film, but also to make hollywood better than the white racist echo chamber it has always been. Because Hollywood is those things, but it's also some good things, and I think most movie lovers will have to acknowledge that Hollywood- more than any other industry in the 20th century has influenced cultural memes, modes of behavior, standards of what is beautiful, cool, edgy.
It's really important for the global culture that Hollywood reforms. And not just in making a publicity stunt out of a "black oscar year y'all!!" but actually start adopting a different mindset. Things like not having all movies in english, white washing and making films sorely in America is a start. Outsourcing projects, expertise to bring filmmaking and film education to other countries, instead of having outside talent go into hollywood to be gobbled up and homogenized by the hollywood machine.
The big problem is that it is not clear if Hollywood (or the studio execs) are interested in giving up their chokehold.
If consumers vote with their wallet and decide to give up on the hollywood establishment and token cash-in CGI blockbuster type movies with poor story and lame characters, then they will reform.
The rise of TV shows thanks to HBO has changed everything. It proves the strength of character development. TV figured itself out compared to its past- When I was a kid, TV was always lower tier. Now, in the last 15 years we've seen amazing talent, acting and scripts going around TV. The continuation of character allows us to explore the intricacy of story a lot more than you can in a movie or a trilogy.
Hollywood has needed competition from a competitive collective since it's very beginning. For almost 100 years it has reigned supreme as the sole echo chamber of which how we set the international standards of film in terms of cultural influence. Yes, the rest of the world has provided many of the best films ever made since the beginning of film, but it is American film- or specifically Hollywood that is the global monopoly. What the Hollywood machine creates on a constant basis is a major task to do once for a Russian, European or Asian studio.
Hollywoods army of specialized sub film disicplines are unparalleled. It cannot be overstated just how much the difference in resources, budget and expertise is. In Europe, we need our government to subsidize most of our films because they don't make money. Our films are a cultural export, and in most of our countries, nobody watch local films compared to the big Hollywood hits. Stunts, CGI, scope and size- It's just not comparable to America.
For the last 15-25 years, since we began to see the allure of going to watch film based on the allure of "well, the story wasn't that great, but it looked amazing" would have had to catch up them. There is nothing wrong with CGI, but for too long it has drawn in audiences to watch something despite the mediocre story.
Perhaps we've reached a point where we are so hard to impress visually with CGI effects that we simply don't care anymore. That doesn't pull us into the theater anymore, and as a result, Hollywood needs to reinvent itself to learn itself how to tell good stories.
What you want ideally, is competition to Hollywood to arise up. It would be very interesting if competing hotbeds of movie studios around the world could arise. Not only to increase the diversity of film and the type of film, but also to make hollywood better than the white racist echo chamber it has always been. Because Hollywood is those things, but it's also some good things, and I think most movie lovers will have to acknowledge that Hollywood- more than any other industry in the 20th century has influenced cultural memes, modes of behavior, standards of what is beautiful, cool, edgy.
It's really important for the global culture that Hollywood reforms. And not just in making a publicity stunt out of a "black oscar year y'all!!" but actually start adopting a different mindset. Things like not having all movies in english, white washing and making films sorely in America is a start. Outsourcing projects, expertise to bring filmmaking and film education to other countries, instead of having outside talent go into hollywood to be gobbled up and homogenized by the hollywood machine.
The big problem is that it is not clear if Hollywood (or the studio execs) are interested in giving up their chokehold.
If consumers vote with their wallet and decide to give up on the hollywood establishment and token cash-in CGI blockbuster type movies with poor story and lame characters, then they will reform.
The rise of TV shows thanks to HBO has changed everything. It proves the strength of character development. TV figured itself out compared to its past- When I was a kid, TV was always lower tier. Now, in the last 15 years we've seen amazing talent, acting and scripts going around TV. The continuation of character allows us to explore the intricacy of story a lot more than you can in a movie or a trilogy.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Thanks for the heads up
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I hate to say it, but I think the weirdness and otherness and high concept that makes anime so appealing to some is fundamentally unappealing to the masses.
this, plus inflated budget and anyone interested in the IP in the first place driven away by all of that
They may not care, but it's not like whitewashing hasn't gotten a ton of mainstream press in the last 2-3 years. I don't think it's an obscure concept.
Just the New York Times: https://www.google.ca/search?q=new+...e=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=YKPiWM2xLsX4aoLeh6AJ
EDIT: Oscars So White was national news last year as well.
jack_package_200
Banned
Good zombie shit is bankable. Bad zombies movies like this and this were not bankable
The Resident Evil movies have a specific audience.
The Artisan
Member
lemme get this straight...superman is an alien, but his creators were white Americans so his adaptations almost always depict him as white.
goku is an alien, his creator as Asian but his adaptation should be white anyways?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Quick, somebody call Disney and tell them to stop everything. Sorry Marvel, you had a good run.
/s
Hoping this won't derail the thread in anyway etc, but i don't see it as 'white washing'. Isn't the problem the fact that non white ethnicities are under represented in hollywood rather than something that was originally asian has a white person playing the lead character?
i mean, i have a problem with the under representation of other cultures and ethnicities but it doesn't bother me whether james bond is black ,white or asian so i don't see why people would be overly bothered that what in the source material it was an asian character and is now non-asian?
(edit: partially looking for someone to educate me here tbh).
i mean, i have a problem with the under representation of other cultures and ethnicities but it doesn't bother me whether james bond is black ,white or asian so i don't see why people would be overly bothered that what in the source material it was an asian character and is now non-asian?
(edit: partially looking for someone to educate me here tbh).
UnemployedVillain
Member
You said to ignore Ed and remove Vicious/the syndicate, which are both crucial to Spike's entire backstory. What next? Make it so Faye isn't an amnesiac, just some random woman they pick up? A big element of the charm of the cast is their drastically different paths that they're either trying to run away from/forget/or recover and how they became this surrogate family on the Bebop. If they're going to significantly change elements for seemingly no reason then just make an original space western
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