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[torre_avenue]

There are two things specifically I don't really agree with in this article:

1. She keeps pointing out that not all Asian Americans are privileged. That's true, yes I've heard about the Hmong, (at this point, the only time people talk about the Hmong is as the example of non-privileged AAs) but on average AAs are higher earning/better educated than white people. This would be especially true in the wealthy suburbs mentioned, like Cupertino. That has to do with a bunch of factors (selective immigration, educational values) but the outcome is the same. Guess what? The Hmong aren't moving into wealthy suburbs in large numbers.

2. Yes, it's racism. But don't dance around results. If having a large number of AAs causes white students' relative academic rank to plummet, they'd be fools not to leave. No reason to talk in hypotheticals: this is a thing the writer could have measured.

In response to point 2, I believe what the writer is pointing out is, Asians/Asian-Americans put a lot of time into making their kids competitive in the classroom via tutoring and what not, while white families don't do that. Instead of raising their kids to the same standard as Asians (e.g. tutoring or making full use of school resources), they choose to say "Oh Asians are making this school too hard for my Johnny, I guess I need to move him to the white school so he can succeed." In short, instead of making their kids competitive, they take the easy way out, move, and blame Asian-Americans for "driving" them out. No one forced those white families to sell their houses at the recession's worst point, those families just didn't do the things that could have made their kids competitive.

I don't think the author is going with "They're racist so they left" aspect, rather it's more the bias that Asians are poisoning white kids' success instead of Asians are forcing white kids to step up their game. And white parents would rationalize it, as the article puts it, "“Asian American success is often presented as something of a horror — robotic, unfeeling machines psychotically hell-bent on excelling, products of abusive tiger parenting who care only about test scores and perfection, driven to succeed without even knowing why.”

 

[davidwhangchoi]

While the term “model minority” substantiates a myth about how whites value Asians, Asians are only “model minorities” when they are small in number with minimal influence on a community. When Asians “set the norms of academic achievement by which whites are evaluated [and] ultimately usurp those previously in place,” once heralded Asian achievements are critiqued with suspicion. In a school district near Princeton, New Jersey, last December, parents claimed that the academic tutoring Asian students received outside of school resulted in the “elementary school curriculum … being sped up to accommodate them.”

^ i work with students in this area...pretty accurate feel about the environment.

 

[crimzonflame]

Yes people tend to say that minorities stick together and form 'ghettos' but they never mention that white flight is a thing.

 

[jerry113]

as a dumb asian these articles aren't helping my case

 

[LegendofJoe]

That's debatable.

If moving them to a less competitive enviroment means they have a higher chance of getting into an elite university, then it absolutely is better for their long-term career prospects.

The opportunities available to someone at Yale/Harvard/Stanford are absolutely not the same as the opportunities available to the same individual at a public state university.

I can't argue with your later point, but it's taking the argument for a less competitive school and better grades to an extreme. Not all top performers will go to Ivy league schools. Most people can't afford it without scholarships, even if their child has the grades, accomplishments, and extra curricula activities to get accepted.

That said I'd love to see some research into the professional success of average kids from great schools that went to public universities compared to top performing kids from bad schools that went to top universities like MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc.

 

[tkscz]

Asians are racist as hell against blacks. Not sure what their stance is on hispanics, though.

This. Most Asians would avoid me like hell in college.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't think the author is going with "They're racist so they left" aspect, rather it's more the bias that Asians are poisoning white kids' success instead of Asians are forcing white kids to step up their game. And white parents would rationalize it, as the article puts it, "“Asian American success is often presented as something of a horror — robotic, unfeeling machines psychotically hell-bent on excelling, products of abusive tiger parenting who care only about test scores and perfection, driven to succeed without even knowing why.”

He kind of is, and there's nothing wrong with that viewpoint, because it's entirely true. This is another example of the kinds of casual racism asians deal with that is kind of swept under the rug, because the justifications aren't blatantly racist or discriminatory. But another poster in here put it well. Rather than attributing the differences to Asians in their area putting their kids through more rigorous prep (more extracurriculars, tutoring even when they're doing well, etc) they attribute it simply to some Asian mystique where they inextricably are doing better, despite their kids being just as smart. The fact that one quote mentioned Asians sending their kids to extra tutoring as if that wasn't an option had me rolling my eyes. It's an equally damaging perception as white people thinking black people and hispanics are dumber, just from a different direction

And I'm sorry but

Nora’s good at math. There are too many kids here good at math. They’re affecting her self-esteem.

Is the most pathetic display of white fragility I've read in a long time. For Nora's sake, I hope she grows past this, or I see her being one of white girls who sues schools because of affirmative action and equally stupid shit like that

 

[Guevara]

In response to point 2, I believe what the writer is pointing out is, Asians/Asian-Americans put a lot of time into making their kids competitive in the classroom via tutoring and what not, while white families don't do that. Instead of raising their kids to the same standard as Asians (e.g. tutoring or making full use of school resources), they choose to say "Oh Asians are making this school too hard for my Johnny, I guess I need to move him to the white school so he can succeed." In short, instead of making their kids competitive, they take the easy way out, move, and blame Asian-Americans for "driving" them out. No one forced those white families to sell their houses at the recession's worst point, those families just didn't do the things that could have made their kids competitive.

I don't think the author is going with "They're racist so they left" aspect, rather it's more the bias that Asians are poisoning white kids' success instead of Asians are forcing white kids to step up their game. And white parents would rationalize it, as the article puts it, "“Asian American success is often presented as something of a horror — robotic, unfeeling machines psychotically hell-bent on excelling, products of abusive tiger parenting who care only about test scores and perfection, driven to succeed without even knowing why.”

Good point, but I really don't like the idea that every family should hire tutors and just work harder. That's just an arms race. Kids are already stressed out and working too hard, in my opinion anyway. My favorite memories of high school were not school-related.

 

[Lmo911]

What does that say about the parent?

This also says that white parents inherently believe their kids are not as smart as Asian kids.

Man that has to be quite the infuriourity(sp?) complex if I ever saw it

We as a culture have pushed "We're not good at math" as the status quo for a long time. We don't get better at it, tutor, etc. we give up or find a way around it. Same with sciences and other things involving critical thinking. It's gotten so bad that cheating is considered okay to many people instead of learning the subject.

When a group comes in that actually competes and succeeds, that kind of smoke and mirrors stuff doesn't match up. Your options are fight or flight, and flight is the easy choice.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Good point, but I really don't like the idea that every family should hire tutors and just work harder. That's just an arms race. Kids are already stressed out and working too hard, in my opinion anyway. My favorite memories of high school were not school-related.

No one is saying you have to hire tutors.

It's just odd that people expect to do equally as well at something that someone else is putting in twice as much work towards.

 

[Septimus Prime]

It actually kind of makes sense to game the high school system, and with it, college acceptance/scholarship chances. The stakes are just too high.

Better to be the best kid in a terrible average school than an average kid at a great school.

I don't think I agree with this. I grew up in one of these types of areas, and my white, Hispanic, and black classmates pretty much all did very well for themselves, even if they weren't necessarily at the top of their class (protip: most Asians aren't going to be at the top, either). I think the main advantage is to be in a school that's well funded, as well as in an environment where high academic achievement is valued. We all still did plenty of extra-curricular activities, like volunteering and sports, too, there's no "not well rounded" nonsense.

I recently paid a ton of money to move back into it so my son can have the same advantages (but even more so now) that I had.

 

[rpmurphy]

Yes people tend to say that minorities stick together and form 'ghettos' but they never mention that white flight is a thing.

Yeah. Asians tend to actively break the white homogeneity in these communities because of the active seek to move into top school districts with high graduation rates and college admittance (which are traditionally predominantly white for obvious reasons). Flight to a worse school district is utterly unthinkable within that mindset.

Particularly for Atlanta, the recent growth of the tech sector has been creating a flow of skilled and educated Asians to fill the job needs, and it's not a big surprise that these highly-salaried people are going to settle their family in better school districts.

 

[kswiston]

No one is saying you have to hire tutors.

It's just odd that people expect to do equally as well at something that someone else is putting in twice as much work towards.

Pretty much. You can play basketball for fun an hour or two a week, but no one expects to make the pros without serious committment. Very high marks/getting into the best universities is the same thing.

 

[kirblar]

Yes people tend to say that minorities stick together and form 'ghettos' but they never mention that white flight is a thing.

Yup. It seems like a pretty universal behavior pattern - people want to be around people like themselves. Geographic political polarization seems to be occurring for this reason as well.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

very interesting piece. time changes but often times people don't.

What the fuck is that supposed mean??

it means exactly what you think it means.

 

[geestack]

There are two things specifically I don't really agree with in this article:

1. She keeps pointing out that not all Asian Americans are privileged. That's true, yes I've heard about the Hmong, (at this point, the only time people talk about the Hmong is as the example of non-privileged AAs) but on average AAs are higher earning/better educated than white people. This would be especially true in the wealthy suburbs mentioned, like Cupertino. That has to do with a bunch of factors (selective immigration, educational values) but the outcome is the same. Guess what? The Hmong aren't moving into wealthy suburbs in large numbers.

2. Yes, it's racism. But don't dance around results. If having a large number of AAs causes white students' relative academic rank to plummet, they'd be fools not to leave. No reason to talk in hypotheticals: this is a thing the writer could have measured.

you're making the mistake of lumping every single "asian" group together when there exists a lot of difference between the subgroups that make up "asian-americans":

http://globalpolicysolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/AAPI_RacialWealthGap.pdf

 

[Cels]

“Across the board, any time you see a significant presence of minority residents, there is a near perfect predictor of exodus of white residents,” he says.

White people aren't racist, we don't want to want to live in an area with too many non-white people. Haven't you heard of neighborhoods where people of the same ethnic group gather, like Chinatown or little Italy? What's so different about that?

Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.

Well those Asians go to cram schools and "regular" kids don't so obviously college admissions has to account for their inflated scores. I don't want my kids to deal with that.

“This area is full of nothing but Asians!” she pouts. “How on Earth is this place diverse?”

Exactly. There needs to be more white people in our affluent Georgia suburb to combat the decreasing diversity. In the meantime, I'm going to move to a whiter suburb a short distance away.

Spoiler

/s

 

[ActStriker]

No one is saying you have to hire tutors.

It's just odd that people expect to do equally as well at something that someone else is putting in twice as much work towards.

"You mean we've got to try something new?

Why can't we do the things that we've always done?"

 

[Dreamgazer]

as a dumb asian these articles aren't helping my case

I will reply to you out of pity.
Cause dumb/unsucessful Asians will never be noticed.

 

[Guevara]

So "diverse" actually means hispanic and black (I guess?)

 

[Kite]

I'm more curious about whether the asians would flee if blacks/hispanics moved in.

Depends, if it means less competition for getting into the top 10% of the class then no. If it means the neighborhood is becoming more dangerous then it's time to move.

Asians are racist as hell against blacks. Not sure what their stance is on hispanics, though.

I can only speak for my parents, they like hispanics. When they came over to America they moved to Philly and opening up a restaurant. Had zero issues with their Hispanic employees, honest and hard working. They really like Hispanics and Jews, both are big into family and the Jewish as also big into education as well.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'd like to see long term psychological studies of children of "Tiger Moms" or otherwise overbearing parents who were forced into tutoring and extracurriculars to the point of not really having a childhood.


I wonder how that stress would shape their college lives, adult lives, relationships, and attitudes towards their children.

 

[kirblar]

T2. Yes, it's racism. But don't dance around results. If having a large number of AAs causes white students' relative academic rank to plummet, they'd be fools not to leave. No reason to talk in hypotheticals: this is a thing the writer could have measured.

In the Brookings article I linked above, they found a natural experiment w/ busing vs non-busing in similar populations and found it didn't make a difference to the educational outcomes for either group of students. The actual race makeup doesn't really seem to be a factor (assuming that data can eventually be replicated elsewhere.) One would presume overall socioecomic factors at home and in the school system would instead have a more major impact on outcomes.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I will reply to you out of pity.
Cause dumb/unsucessful Asians will never be noticed.

As a smart black dude, he has my sympathy. It's why Is say this kind of racism is just as damaging, just in the opposite direction.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

I'd like to see long term psychological studies of children of "Tiger Moms" or otherwise overbearing parents who were forced into tutoring and extracurriculars to the point of not really having a childhood.


I wonder how that stress would shape their college lives, adult lives, relationships, and attitudes towards their children.

you dont need to. just ask on here. there's plenty that went through it.

 

[someday]

Nora's obviously not that great at math.

My thought too.

My favorite quote from the OP:

Somehow white parents’ liberal politics and progressivism do not inform them that the decision to relocate to avoid Asians is racism. They’ve defined the term so narrowly, their own individual acts of prejudice don’t meet it.

That is an interesting way to put it. An example of that quantum racism.

 

[Infinite]

So "diverse" actually means hispanic and black (I guess?)

what? and who said this?

 

[BrightLightLava]

I went to one of the Cupertino schools that they talked about, when the Wall Street Journal article came out. It really ruffled a lot of feathers. People on both sides got upset, we had to talk about it it in a number of classes. It got real hairy.

 

[Guevara]

what? and who said this?

quote in the article:

“This area is full of nothing but Asians!” she pouts. “How on Earth is this place diverse?”

 

[Dreamgazer]

you dont need to. just ask on here. there's plenty that went through it.

Or you know, anyone from Eastern-Asia.

 

[commedieu]

Well that's just too bad.

 

[timetokill]

I will say I find this pretty amusing, as my white parents intentionally got me into a middle school that was out of district and into a majority Asian area. I have photos of me and my friends where I am literally the only white person is a group of 20 kids.

The competition actually helped me perform better in a lot of things (especially math), and being one of the physically strongest kids for a change was pretty interesting for me!

 

[forgrim]

Asians are racist as hell against blacks. Not sure what their stance is on hispanics, though.

I grew up in LA in the 80/90s and my mom was essentially petrified of black people, scared the beejesus out of her. I learned that from her and the 92 riots supported my fear til i moved to NY and learned they are normal like us.

The hispanics, my mom loved them. Some weird prejudice she learned from back in the far east.

Edit: maybe my mims love of hispanic people has to do with what the above poster wrote, that they were hardworking.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Or you know, anyone from Eastern-Asia.

Wouldn't the host culture differentially affect the psyche of the children?


I'd like to see studies of those kind of children in America across a wide range of citizen types (1st generation, second, third, long-term).

 

[Dreams-Visions]

quote in the article:

“This area is full of nothing but Asians!” she pouts. “How on Earth is this place diverse?”

when you think all Asians are the same, yea that's what it means. It's like talking about "Africans" that monolithic block of chocolate despite there being ~2,000 languages spoken across its 54 countries and a full variety of complexions.

These are the same people that would say, "...they all look the same."

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Racist and mediocre, a winning combo.

 

[djplaeskool]

I live just south of Johns Creek.
This article is an even mix of sad and hilarious, and a ton of truth as far as white flight from the northeastern edges of Atlanta.

 

[FStop7]

If excellent higher education was something readily available to anyone who wanted it rather than something to be fought over would it change anything or would the people who moved away simply cite other reasons?

 

[AbsolutBro]

Asian kids aren't regular kids?

I'm guessing someone read too many articles about Tiger Moms. The person is probably defining "regular kids" as "kids that get to do things other than study and practice", which shockingly enough would include many to most Asian kids also.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If excellent higher education was something readily available to anyone who wanted it rather than something to be fought over would it change anything or would the people who moved away simply cite other reasons?

they would probably talk just like the white people formerly in John's Creek in this article talk about it. this is essentially the scenario in the opening of the article.

 

[Guevara]

If excellent higher education was something readily available to anyone who wanted it rather than something to be fought over would it change anything or would the people who moved away simply cite other reasons?

This is about credentialism rather than education. These parents want their kids to get name-brand diplomas. Learning has little to do with it.

At least that's my cynical read.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

If excellent higher education was something readily available to anyone who wanted it rather than something to be fought over would it change anything or would the people who moved away simply cite other reasons?

This is more than a pipe dream, it isn't even possible. There is no way to make the top tier private schools available for everyone. They wouldn't have the capacity for it. Their competitiveness isn't just to exclude people just because.

Not to mention, no matter what you do private schools will always have an edge over public because they're not funded by government money meaning they'll be able to propose more attractive offers to potential educators

 

[Quixzlizx]

This is about credentialism rather than education. These parents want their kids to get name-brand diplomas. Learning has little to do with it.

At least that's my cynical read.

The connections you can make while earning a "name-brand diploma" are probably worth more than the learning.

 

[qcf x2]

What the fuck is that supposed mean??

That the real world is where being white is enough for life to be easy?

Johns Creek?

MORE LIKE NGS CREEK

I laughed.

 

[andythinkpad]

I'm more curious about whether the asians would flee if blacks/hispanics moved in.

Asian communities usually have property value trending upward because a lot of Asians actually want to pay more to live in Asian neighborhoods.

 

[kswiston]

This is more than a pipe dream, it isn't even possible. There is no way to make the top tier private schools available for everyone. They wouldn't have the capacity for it. Their competitiveness isn't just to exclude people just because.

Not to mention, no matter what you do private schools will always have an edge over public because they're not funded by government money meaning they'll be able to propose more attractive offers to potential educators

In Ontario, most private schools pay teachers a fraction of what the public board pays. As such, they mostly get the youngest, inexperienced teachers. Public teachers making close to $100k a year after a decade or so understandably dont want to retire, so it is hard for new teachers to break in.

The edge that private schools have is small class sizes, and greater accommodation for students with atypical scheduling needs. Most kids just go to public schools. Even wealthy kids, outside of those whose parents can afford $30-50k a year for a few of the really high end prep schools in the GTA.

The US public school system is just fundamentally broken. Private schools are a bandaid solution.

 

[Cagey]

I will say I find this pretty amusing, as my white parents intentionally got me into a middle school that was out of district and into a majority Asian area. I have photos of me and my friends where I am literally the only white person is a group of 20 kids.

The competition actually helped me perform better in a lot of things (especially math), and being one of the physically strongest kids for a change was pretty interesting for me!

Mine moved to the poorer part of a wealthy suburb they couldn't afford for the school district when I was 4, and I wound up in the same boat as you, right down to having those same pictures of being The White One in HS. Since my parents had no knowledge of what to do in school or how to get into college because they were blue collar HS grads, I just kinda learned from and copied my friends on what classes to take, why AP was good, how to prepare for SAT, what work was needed to be done, and what objective standards to hold myself to since I was as smart as they were, etc.

I benefited tremendously from those dastardly Chinese and Korean friends of mine.

I would guess some classmates who had the parental and monetary advantages I didn't shared the dismay of Nora's parents. But for me? It was hugely beneficial. I'd not be where I am today without getting second degree influenced from the "stereotypical Asian parent."

 

[rpmurphy]

I live just south of Johns Creek.
This article is an even mix of sad and hilarious, and a ton of truth as far as white flight from the northeastern edges of Atlanta.

Yeah. I've myself had some thoughts about moving farther north into Forsyth, but life begins to look so incredibly boring and bland when I drive up that far and look around. Alpharetta, Johns Creek, and Suwanee are about the boundary.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

In Ontario, most private schools pay teachers a fraction of what the public board pays. As such, they mostly get the youngest, inexperienced teachers. Public teachers making close to $100k a year after a decade or so understandably dont want to retire, so it is hard for new teachers to break in.

The edge that private schools have is small class sizes, and greater accommodation for students with atypical scheduling needs. Most kids just go to public schools. Even wealthy kids, outside of those whose parents can afford $30-50k a year for a few of the really high end prep schools in the GTA.

The US public school system is just fundamentally broken. Private schools are a bandaid solution.

I was speaking purely about higher education, aka college/university

 

[davidwhangchoi]

Wouldn't the host culture differentially affect the psyche of the children?


I'd like to see studies of those kind of children in America across a wide range of citizen types (1st generation, second, third, long-term).

it's not like we just got off the boat, there's people that have parents that were born in the U.S. and are 3rd generation that grew up with English as their first and only language.

not really a social mystery...