Dreams-Visions
Member
ayyy we #12? GO BLUE.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ghosts of White People Past: Witnessing White Flight From an Asian Ethnoburb
- Thread starter platocplx
- Start date
- Status
ayyy we #12? GO BLUE.
Zoe
Member
It really depends on your goals. Plan on going somewhere that takes your rank into account? Better to go to an average school. Want to stand out in a sport? Better go where you're the star.
Want to go somewhere that looks at the whole picture? Then it's okay to not be the best.
Oh yeah, that I do know. My understanding of the question was the case if the high level of academic competition in the district was just within the white student body.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
You do realise you're trying to bullshit in a room with people who knows the language right?
Case in point-
Oh snap indeed.
Team Alucard
Banned
UofM is one of the few decent public universities not located in California. The others would be UVa, UNC, and UT Austin.
asians aren't real duh
andythinkpad
Member
So people are just blanket calling XX ethnic group is racist now?
How is this ok?
You also causally group Asian/Chinese into one generalization, never mind that American Chinese are nowhere as racist as you claim.
Yes, in California, it can mean guaranteed admission to a UC.
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/local-path/
Every University of California campus outside of UC Merced is highly competitive to be admitted to.
That, plus even if it were true, it's like saying all French people are extremely sexist because, in the French language, groups of people are considered masculine as soon as there's a single male person in them. It's dumb.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Though it is a derogatory term in Cantonese it's doesn't appear to be that common hell I baidu it out of curiosity and I went through a couple of pages and got nothing using it as that meaning mainly it was just a bunch on anime/visual novel characters.
http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=白鬼&pn=0&o...AiXuWZwrp10KjKvqffCxWiRjCZkf1x0Rp4zF4gyLLOS3g
So don't compete. Don't hire the tutors, don't spend the cash, just keep doing you. Don't have to move to do that.
huh. though there has to a better solution than moving your dumber kid to a dumber school.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't think you understand real life.
Nah, I understand it perfectly. You want to move schools because you can't hack it (or don't want to), go ahead. Just don't try and paint that as a fault of the competition or go looking for sympathy.
Ah yes, the school district I grew up in. It's been very interesting seeing the occasional article about the educational/racial tensions develop there, and the questionable school policies employed in reaction. When I was there the district seemed to have a good handle on multiple tiers of classes for every kind of student, but it sounds like they've let a minority of angry white people dictate shit for everyone. As a white person who benefited from all their serious honors, AP classes, and actual college prep (and of greatly enjoying the company of my very diverse class), they disappoint me.
Littlefang
Member
Okay that is just so strange to me that class rank is actually taken into consideration. I know 10 other people from my graduating class at my school and the only reason it isn't more is because most people preferred to go to another school. I can totally understand why parents are switching schools. But they seriously shouldn't be blaming the Asian-American students performing well but rather that the system itself is completely unfair for students who are in a more difficult school.
I mean if you're competing with 30 other kids and you're doing slightly worse than them, of course you would go move to a school where your grades can be more competitive.
I live in Roswell/Milton, which is near Johns Creek, and I have not met a single adult that would move away from a good school because of how their children match against other children. If anything, the school's standing as a whole is taken as a factor due to property value of taking that perception into account.
I grew up in John's Creek, and remember it before it was even called that. For years it was just part of Duluth, GA. John's Creek was what we called that area of Duluth, kind of like an area descriptor for those who knew. When I moved there in 1999, it was mostly fields and some farms with pockets of housing divisions and shops.
Then I remember all of the housing subdivisions popping up, and suddenly the majority of my High School graduating class were Asian. Many of my best friends in HS were Asian. And to be totally honest, I didn't even notice the transition as it was happening. It just kind of happened over a 7 year period, and it didn't super hit me until I moved away for college in a town that was primarily white (after having lived for years in a primarily Asian suburban town).
But John's Creek also doesn't have a lot for younger generations. It's a good place to raise kids if you have some money (it's on the upper middle class to upper class spectrum nowadays for sure), but there is no nightlife to speak of and many folks move off to college right after HS (at least my generation did). It's a very suburban town. There are also A LOT of people there. The traffic is an absolute nightmare. I don't miss that at all... That part of town has some incredible restaurants, but to get the best Asian food in the area you'll want to go a bit further into Gwinnet.
I guess if anyone has any questions for someone who grew up in the city this article is talking about, feel free to shoot haha.
Then I remember all of the housing subdivisions popping up, and suddenly the majority of my High School graduating class were Asian. Many of my best friends in HS were Asian. And to be totally honest, I didn't even notice the transition as it was happening. It just kind of happened over a 7 year period, and it didn't super hit me until I moved away for college in a town that was primarily white (after having lived for years in a primarily Asian suburban town).
But John's Creek also doesn't have a lot for younger generations. It's a good place to raise kids if you have some money (it's on the upper middle class to upper class spectrum nowadays for sure), but there is no nightlife to speak of and many folks move off to college right after HS (at least my generation did). It's a very suburban town. There are also A LOT of people there. The traffic is an absolute nightmare. I don't miss that at all... That part of town has some incredible restaurants, but to get the best Asian food in the area you'll want to go a bit further into Gwinnet.
I guess if anyone has any questions for someone who grew up in the city this article is talking about, feel free to shoot haha.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
White moms love me though. I'm breaking barriers!
HisImperialMajesty
Member
Is it really rational though? Do you not think the white children could benefit from going to school in a diverse school with excellent academic credentials? Do you think the mediocre white student is suddenly going to become an academic superstar in his new, lily white environs?
I'm very grateful that I was able to attend a HS in John's Creek that was very diverse, and that also had a high level of academic performance. I'm very lucky in that, and absolutely benefited from the diversity that area developed. I graduated just about a decade ago though, so it's sad to see that some folks are making this out to be an issue these days.
Clint Beastwood
Banned
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I know right? fucking monolithic group of people. what else can we say that all asians are? lets stereotype some more! its fun!
From the same people of the personal responsability and the bootstraps.
Philosophy, bitches! #3 in the English speaking world (at least when I was there).
PeskyToaster
Member
Who needs a tutors. Just get good.
What they are doing is completely rational though. I think it's based on a misguided understanding of how admissions policies typically work for most schools, because from what I know, schools are broadly aware that some schools are better than others and will adjust on their end.
I'm of a mixed mind about the idea of paying tutors to "help" your otherwise A/B student with their homework. On the one hand, it's kind of like having a parent that helps with your homework, but I also sort.of would consider having a professional that looks over a kid's homework after they complete it for errors or proofreads their kid's papers kind of a form of cheating. But, I also think the kid will learn more in that situation.
I'm not sure what ethics in tutoring are exactly or how a school looks at that, but if the goal is to get better grades, theres got to be pressure to do that.
The ethics of tutoring are exactly the same as the ethics of teaching. I can't speak for arts/language teachers, but kids who can't grasp the material in math and science aren't going to do very well in those courses, even if they just gave their homework to a professional to do. The majority of your grade comes from stuff you do in class (tests, quizzes, labs, etc).
Getting help with homework or on an assignment isn't cheating. Your high school teachers will do the same thing, time permitting. Time just doesn't permit very much given the work and student load that many teachers are saddled with.
Why do you think that every university course comes with dedicated office hours where you can get one on one time with your professor or a teaching assistant? Ideally, public schools would have the same dedicated resources. However, budgets are limited. Resource rooms/staff when available are largely dedicated to students with learning disabilities who need those services to pass.
Gully State
Member
Please tell us more...
Gully State
Member
Keep em coming....sounds more like you're racist against Asians ...
It's just kind of an unfair advantage in the sense that not everyone can access it in general. But again , some kids have involved parents, books, PC at home, SAT Prep, etc.
I'm sure the kids with professional tutoring so actually learn a bit more, though. Like I said, mixed feelings.
blue_phazon
Member
As someone who is South Asian, we too have parents that push kids hard academically. It's no wonder that most kids in med school are Asian, whether it be Indian, Chinese, etc.
Perhaps white parents should push their kids harder instead of running away. *shrug*
Perhaps white parents should push their kids harder instead of running away. *shrug*
DreadfulOmen
Member
Not sure where you're from, but i have relatives in New Orleans, Texas, and St. Louis. The area is pretty poor and the neighborhoods are really mixed with blacks and asians. Everyone seemed to get along for the most part.
Kite
Member
Really depends on what your definition of "Most" is....
Asians are definitely over-represented in medical school compared to their proportion of the population, but if you're very generous and assumed all the "Mixed Race" and "Unknown Ethnicity" students are actually some kind of Asian, than at best, 27-28% of US medical school graduates in the past two years were Asian.
From the outside looking in, it seems that the root of the problem is colleges admitting students based on high-school competition instead on high-school proficiency.
If they did away with that rule of admitting the top % from each school, and instead had an admittance policy based on grades and/or entrance exams, people would not have to cheat the system by moving kids around.
In fact, this system would probably be benificial to kids staying in schools with better students, because slightly worse performing kids could get help and support from their better colleagues and reach the necessary plateau of admittance.
That would most likely eliminate all the purposeful or accidental racism emanating from school-switching.
If they did away with that rule of admitting the top % from each school, and instead had an admittance policy based on grades and/or entrance exams, people would not have to cheat the system by moving kids around.
In fact, this system would probably be benificial to kids staying in schools with better students, because slightly worse performing kids could get help and support from their better colleagues and reach the necessary plateau of admittance.
That would most likely eliminate all the purposeful or accidental racism emanating from school-switching.
I'm aware I possibly have no idea what is going on, coming from a completely different educational system and a completely unrelatable population (ethnic) situation
I'm Canto and no one says 白鬼 as a racially derogative term. Maybe 鬼佬 or 鬼仔, but never 白鬼.
Here in Taiwan, 白人 (white person) and 黑人 (black person) are the norm among young people. It's definitely on the way out. Terms like 洋鬼子 (foreign ghost) are seen as near the same level of pejorative as racial slurs in America.
Asian communities have a long way to go in regards to relations with black people (here I've seen children burst into tears upon seeing a real black man, and lots of school kids are casually racist towards black people), but the worst us white people have to deal with is the sort of "perpetual foreigner" thing that Asians have to deal with in the US. No biggie; if a kid at 7-11 sees me and yells "Foreigner!" to his mother, I usually just laugh and point at him and say "Taiwan person!" with mock surprise.
Related to the topic, I would kill to have these supposed magical asians who are speeding up the curriculum en masse. Even if they spend every day at cram school until nightfall, the ratio of truly gifted students to average and/or poorly performing students is pretty much the same as it is in the States.
Wow this thread turned into a race war really quickly.
From my point of view. The way this article describes it both White and Asian parents are looking to further their children's development. Both are just taking different approaches.
For instance athletes change teams all the time to get better opportunities.
Some go from coming off the bench on a good team, to starting for a worse team in order to attract more attention and ultimately earn more money.
Others take pay cuts to try and win championships.
Both approaches have their own strengths and weeknesses
From my point of view. The way this article describes it both White and Asian parents are looking to further their children's development. Both are just taking different approaches.
For instance athletes change teams all the time to get better opportunities.
Some go from coming off the bench on a good team, to starting for a worse team in order to attract more attention and ultimately earn more money.
Others take pay cuts to try and win championships.
Both approaches have their own strengths and weeknesses
Atraveller
Banned
That's one stupid blanket statement!
squeakywheel
Member
I think most people don't realize that many immigrant parents (whether they be from Asia or otherwise) are highly educated and/or upper middle class where they come from. My parents were as well as many other Asians I have met. I'm not counting refugees since that can be a bit more random/well represented.
The need to push kids is inherent as they were raised the same way.
When I went to high school almost 2 decades ago, we were not graded on a curve. I am not sure if that has changed. So it didn't matter if a ton of us got A's as we were not really competing with one another but more to do with learning the material well enough to get to the 90%+ mark.
If they really want to compete, they have to focus their children (immigrants focus way less on sports/fun and more into academics and "other things that make you look smart" i.e. piano/violin, model UN, hospital volunteer etc).
I'd rather be pushed to be average in a smart school than be considered "smart" amongst lazy bums.
The need to push kids is inherent as they were raised the same way.
When I went to high school almost 2 decades ago, we were not graded on a curve. I am not sure if that has changed. So it didn't matter if a ton of us got A's as we were not really competing with one another but more to do with learning the material well enough to get to the 90%+ mark.
If they really want to compete, they have to focus their children (immigrants focus way less on sports/fun and more into academics and "other things that make you look smart" i.e. piano/violin, model UN, hospital volunteer etc).
I'd rather be pushed to be average in a smart school than be considered "smart" amongst lazy bums.
D.Lo
Member
The US college system is seemingly a giant nightmare.
However, if parents are just being practical about their child being academically successful plus having a balanced life with sports and play time etc, and the way to to do it ends up with 'white flight' - then it's more a cultural preference than racism.
They're not against asians per-se, a group of whom might be a mix of Chinese, Japanese, Korean and indians, but against their kids growing up in a dominant culture of 'test scores at all costs'.
If the only way an already smart kid can be in the top 10% of a year at a school is to have constant private tutoring, which doesn't make a person any smarter but just prepares them specifically for tests, I think parents can make a tough choice and move if that's what they want for their family.
They would do the same thing if it were a suburb dominated by say German immigrants who tutored their kids hard. It's nothing to do with skin colour.
Of course some may be racist as well. But the principle here is about a particular academic culture, not any particular race.
However, if parents are just being practical about their child being academically successful plus having a balanced life with sports and play time etc, and the way to to do it ends up with 'white flight' - then it's more a cultural preference than racism.
They're not against asians per-se, a group of whom might be a mix of Chinese, Japanese, Korean and indians, but against their kids growing up in a dominant culture of 'test scores at all costs'.
If the only way an already smart kid can be in the top 10% of a year at a school is to have constant private tutoring, which doesn't make a person any smarter but just prepares them specifically for tests, I think parents can make a tough choice and move if that's what they want for their family.
They would do the same thing if it were a suburb dominated by say German immigrants who tutored their kids hard. It's nothing to do with skin colour.
Of course some may be racist as well. But the principle here is about a particular academic culture, not any particular race.
Septimus Prime
Member
So here's the question, then: what about the community makes you think it's all about test scores and no life balance?
- Status