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Giant Bomb #6 | You'd be hard pressed to find 10 better threads this year.
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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Lana Del Rey
Banned
How about Sisters: A Tale of Two Daughters?
Either way the author of that article will have a heart attack when she finds this
http://youtu.be/7aGU5Tu3gII
Jimmyfenix
Member
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/giantbomb-is-sexist-for-not-putting-tomb-raider-in-1466695/?page=6
It is a mess of a thread but please read the last 3 pages.
This made me feel better about the whole situation.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I like to think that a its core, the article was driven more by "why my favorite game didn't male it to the top ten?"
It took me back to Fruit Gushers faces.
That typo?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
"I can't think of a game this year more people went out of their way to tell me I should not have enjoyed than BioShock Infinite."
Alex Navarro, you are a man after my own heart.
Alex Navarro, you are a man after my own heart.
Yeah, sometimes, what he says actually makes sense but its usually shot down from the other 4 people
*remembers Hotline Miami last year*
Vire
Member
I don't even know what to say to that just... I'm speechless.
It's straight up misyognygygyny.
I am actually quite proud that this thread had managed to slate what is a poorly reasoned article without resorting to personal attacks on the author.
Also, do you see the irony of calling her a "poor woman".
I had a dream that a new Windjammers was coming out in March.
This one dude (someone at a publisher maybe?) put out a press release and said he was shocked that the development team was taking so long. I remember he specifically threw the producer under the bus.
So watch out for that, I guess.
This one dude (someone at a publisher maybe?) put out a press release and said he was shocked that the development team was taking so long. I remember he specifically threw the producer under the bus.
So watch out for that, I guess.
Keyser Soze
Member
I want new content, I just listened to Vinny talk about Driver: San Francisco in an old podcast :/
I've been listening to the Giant Bombcast playlist on youtube and this thing is a goddamn mess. 3 hour live shows mixed in with 3 minute excerpts, it's a hot mess.
Keyser Soze
Member
You're a hot mess [/rorie]
I just listened to the 2012 GotY podcasts and moving forwards from there. I liked how Jeff said "we've really got to think of a better way to do this" (paraphrased) during those deliberations.
Finally read the article. The defense of GB here is unnessesary as the criticism wasn't personal or anything new. She's talking about representation and perspectives that just aren't going to be heard from an all white guy cast. Seems like a no brainer. The things about Tomb Raider (female empowerment etc.) didn't stand out to them like she feels they would for a woman.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I didn't read the other podcasts she brings up, but the assumption that a woman would instantly identify with Lara more because she's a woman and the game is written by a woman is kind of ridiculous.
Now, there is a question of the lack of women writing reviews, but there's no guarantee that a woman would immediately put it as her game of the year.
Man, last year's The Workplace parody was so fucking good
Haunted
Member
thatsthejoke
Lara killing hundreds of dudes and making porn noises while being tortured is a rather poor example of female empowerment.
Nowhere I've spent time on the internet is more of a boys club than the Eurogamer forums, and yet their readers voted in TR as the 4th best game of the year. This does not mean they are less sexist or more conscious of women's issues than the Giant Bomb guys. It just means they happened to like the game more.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-31-eurogamer-readers-top-50-games-of-2013
NumberThree
Member
No it's not. Of course you're more likely to identify with a person that's similar to you. Sex, race, species, behaviour, they all matter in the equation. That doesn't mean a man can't identify with Lara, the world isn't binary.
And no one said they would.
You associating the sounds someone makes when getting hurt with porn tells more about your taste in porn than about the game. Nothing wrong with that, though.
Being "historically important" is a poor reason to be included in a "games we liked the most this year"
Kill.Switch was historically important, but I wouldn't say it was a Top 10 in 2003
The woman who made those sounds wasn't actually hurt, she was an actor in a studio moaning in an exaggerated fashion. And it was a common complaint, especially around E3 2012.
If an actual person suffered those types of injuries they would be screaming hysterically or would have passed out. The game had Lara take so much punishment it became comical.
SuperSonic1305
Member
I hope the first QL of the year is as good as Euro Truck Simulator 2 AKA QLOTY 2013.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Yeah. It was going to be "make".
Ventilaator
Banned
Read the article. It was hilarious. The straight leap from not liking Tomb Raider automatically making you a horrible sexist is insanity on a level I haven't seen since the Breaking Bad threads.
The general problem with an article like this is, even though it is not necessarily intended to, it comes across as a hit piece. She never contacted (or at least it does not appear she contacted) any of the people involved, and so it tells strictly one side of the story. A much more interesting piece would have been if she contacted someone at Giant Bomb and asked if they ever considered this, and what effect they think it would have. Then it could be a dialog. I strongly suspect someone at GB would have talked to her, and I think, given their comments about the game in the past, they may have come away from Tomb Raider with a different view of the "female empowerment" of the game. That in itself is interesting to mention and discuss why they came to different conclusions, but assuming you know what's going on without talking to them makes the article (and argument) weaker.
Some of her other points are fairly reasonable, but I think she also strays discussing her own development studio, especially because the "it just happens that all the people I like are <insert gender here>" is an argument that has been used so long for misogyny that to see it brought up as a justification for an all female workplace is a little strange. It's harder to take criticism from someone about how places are filled with the same male opinions when she chooses to surround herself (at work) with solely females.
I have way more of a problem with the tweet. The article at least has the space to justify her claims and make an argument. A drive by tweet calling someone out is tasteless (especially because I'm not sure why out of all of them Brad would deserve this). Either take the time in a longer form to explain why you feel that way or don't make the comment.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Given that my race is completely underrepresented in games, if being the "same" as a protagonist is a major way in which a reader can identify with a protagonist of a text, then I probably wouldn't be able to sympathize with any game at all.
I'm just taking issue with the idea that simply being a woman would give one more insight into the character, when she represents a very specific type of woman anyway.
Would a black female reviewer have more insight because she's a woman? Or would she be alienated because she's not a rich white British woman?
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I don't think she was calling anyone a sexist at all. She was pointing out that stuff like strong females in games isn't a topic of discussion at all when games like that come up. That I understand because its true, I mean not even Patrick brought it up in that discussion or with Last of Us and Gone Home, they just discussed them with no mention of gender stuff. Again, don't think the author is vilifying but just pointing out that the discussion is absent, and hoping it will be there more in the future...
AuthenticM
Member
Man, this is a bad song. I've listened to several songs of Jeff Gerstmann and always thought they were very poor. Eh.
rakkadakka
Member
Others have probably said this but her accusations about boy club mentality fall short when she touts her all women dev team.
Her article, when trying to make her opinion known, essentially doesn't do the job.
When you come out and call a group sexist (or in her case, singling out a member and calling that person sexist) you better have proof more than just "well these are reasons".
This turned into her defending the game more than her actually defending her original accusation.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but unfortunately, because she wrote this article, and because it blew up on the forums, This won't be the end.
and also, just as a side note: When writing an editorial, don't down-talk a group (in this case, calling in a boys-only gaming or whatever the fuck ever she wrote), and then get on your high-horse and talk about how your "changing" the mentality of women in game designing works since YOUR game is being build by an all women team. You become a contradiction.
When you come out and call a group sexist (or in her case, singling out a member and calling that person sexist) you better have proof more than just "well these are reasons".
This turned into her defending the game more than her actually defending her original accusation.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but unfortunately, because she wrote this article, and because it blew up on the forums, This won't be the end.
and also, just as a side note: When writing an editorial, don't down-talk a group (in this case, calling in a boys-only gaming or whatever the fuck ever she wrote), and then get on your high-horse and talk about how your "changing" the mentality of women in game designing works since YOUR game is being build by an all women team. You become a contradiction.
I may be misquoting as I haven't played TLOU, but they specifically had a discussion based around Ellie's personal growth as a character and
becoming a stronger individual no longer dependant on Joel but rather vice-versa
They don't outright discuss it in the context of strong female protagonists because that wasn't the conversation, but it's implied through their description of her arc. At least that's what I took away from it having not played the game.
ThreePiMatt
Member
You know, its one thing to say that the video game industry needs more female voices, I don't think there many people are going to put up an argument like that. But its an entirely different thing when you say "Giant Bomb needs a female voice" which is a totally fucking asinine statement to make. Giant Bomb became what Giant Bomb is by catering to what Giant Bomb likes.
And while she never outright calls Giant Bomb or Brad sexist, her "compliments" are incredibly underhanded and condescending. She clearly thinks Giant Bomb has a "problem" and some dubious moral obligation to correct it. Its articles like this that are the reason why some people view the modern feminist movement as something exclusively for white, upper-middle class women because the piece comes off whiny and entitled.
And while she never outright calls Giant Bomb or Brad sexist, her "compliments" are incredibly underhanded and condescending. She clearly thinks Giant Bomb has a "problem" and some dubious moral obligation to correct it. Its articles like this that are the reason why some people view the modern feminist movement as something exclusively for white, upper-middle class women because the piece comes off whiny and entitled.
Keyser Soze
Member
Vinny needs to play Overgrowth
PLEASE GOD LET VINNY PLAY OVERGROWTH
PLEASE GOD LET VINNY PLAY OVERGROWTH
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I agree. I think the idea that you need a protagonist to be the same race or gender as you to relate with them is a very racist/sexist thought.
Likewise, in ~5 years of being a huge fan of GB I have never looked at the crew as just "5 white guys". To try and diminish their "perspectives" down to their race/gender is a betrayal of what equally is really about.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
When you think about it, most of the enthusiast press outfits are basically "5 white guys". Not crying foul there, just think it's funny when you step back and look at it.
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