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[Alo81]

I'm not trying to determine what factors go into a person's purchasing decision, or saying that people should only care about the games. What I'm saying is: IF you only care about performance, THEN you should buy a PC because you'll be able to get the best performance on PC. If you can't afford a PC, still don't buy a console, because if you only care about performance spending that $400 on a console isn't worth it... continue to save and get a PC in a couple months instead.

You're looking at it in a painfully black and white sense. It's not "I only care about performance" so saying "Just get a PC" isn't valid.

It's not "I only care about games" so "Choose based on those for PS4 and Xbox One."

So there is no correct answer for what is universally right - stop trying to state it as if there is.

 

[Alo81]

Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.

I'm not disagreeing with this, but Giantbombs user base certainly isn't the mainstream video game consumer and I'm certain it's something a lot of visitors would care about. It seems like a big enough thing that it's worth reporting.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I don't think Brad is ever finishing this level.

 

[derFeef]

Goddamn Brad cool it down sometime, this is not a speedrun, especially if you do good, stop for a bit.

 

[Xater]

lol the chat is giving the worst tips for the snake boss.

You put two spears in the wall, wait in the middle in jump away towards the wall when it attacks. Then you go on your spear in the wall, charge a spear and it it. Jump off with another spear attack. Repeat until the snake is dead.

I thought this was the easiest boss in the entire game, it just takes some time.

 

[Massa]

Set down your agenda for a second and let's try a little critical thinking. Patrick is either

-dismissing an issue out of hand because he and he alone doesn't have the hardware to tell the difference, or

-applying his own example to illustrate why technical minutiae is somewhere around eighth on the list of factors that will determine the success of these consoles, as it's always been

Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.

I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.

You make a lot of great points Brad, but I thought I'd add a few things.

Mainstream consumers do give a fuck about the resolution of their games. This is more important early in the generation than later on, but rest assured "better graphics" is a selling point for everyone buying these systems for Call of Duty and Battlefield and the other 2 available games, and winning the narrative there is something both Sony and Microsoft care very much about. Microsoft wouldn't have made so many comments on GAF and reddit, or published quite a few articles on DF if it was just for nothing.

There are other factors that are important in addition to the ones you listed, but so far the most important by far has been one that the enthusiast press also largely dismissed: the online DRM stuff.

As for your PS3 comparison, it did indeed suffer with worse multiplatform games a lot of the time. But let me ask you something - how many times, over the years, have you heard the phrase "not only exclusive to PS3, only possible on PS3"? Sony used that like a billion times. They'd show montage of developers saying "the PS3 was hard, but once we learned it, it's incredibly powerful!" They fought the "PS3 is inferior" message very hard to the point where PS3 fans will argue to this day that its exclusive games look much better and that third party developers with inferior games are lazy. Anecdotally I've seen people confuse the PS3 as more powerful simply because it had Blu-ray and the 360 only had DVD.

Point being, the idea that the Xbox 360 was 50% to 125% more powerful than the PS3 never really took off in the mainstream, and that's because Sony fought to keep that from happening, so I don't think the situation is comparable. The difference also couldn't be easily explained back then in a way consumers understood, not as easy as 1080p vs 720p anyway.

 

[Zocano]

lol the chat is giving the worst tips for the snake boss.

You put two spears in the wall, wait in the middle in jump away towards the wall when it attacks. Then you go on your spear in the wall, charge a spear and it it. Jump off with another spear attack. Repeat until the snake is dead.

I thought this was the easiest boss in the entire game, it just takes some time.

Even faster to just jump off the spear as the snake lunges and downstrike the ground (causing a spike to fall and hit the snake). Takes 3 or 4 cycles to kill it.

 

[Xater]

Even faster to just jump off the spear as the snake lunges and downstrike the ground (causing a spike to fall and hit the snake). Takes 3 or 4 cycles to kill it.

Oh that is cool. Gotta try that, if it's really that fast.

Edit: Now he basically only figured out the avoidance part of my description. This is hard to watch. Such an easy pattern.

 

[Curufinwe]

You make a lot of great points Brad, but I thought I'd add a few things.

Mainstream consumers do give a fuck about the resolution of their games. This is more important early in the generation than later on, but rest assured "better graphics" is a selling point for everyone buying these systems for Call of Duty and Battlefield and the other 2 available games, and winning the narrative there is something both Sony and Microsoft care very much about. Microsoft wouldn't have made so many comments on GAF and reddit, or published quite a few articles on DF if it was just for nothing.

There are other factors that are important in addition to the ones you listed, but so far the most important by far has been one that the enthusiast press also largely dismissed: the online DRM stuff.

Mainstream consumers absolutely do care about differences in graphical performance, which is what the resolution gaps are evidence of. Especially those consumers who would consider buying a new console at full price during its first year on the market.

 

[Zaph]

Drew's never heard of Masters of the Universe? WTF?

 

[FStop7]

Drew's never heard of Masters of the Universe? WTF?

They forgot to include that infodisc during his programming in the birthing vat.

 

[smr00]

Drew's never heard of Masters of the Universe? WTF?

Drew is so goddamn interesting this doesn't even bother me.

If it were anyone else i would be like WTF? Go away!. But Drew is into so many interesting things and does so much stuff that again i find extremely interesting i just can't be mad. I find Drew fascinating as a human being. He is one of maybe 10 people in the world i would like to sit down with and just pick his brain for a few hours.

 

[derFeef]

Why is he dancing around like that every time? stand still and wait, Brad. Man... patience.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

again, I tuned in and its ending!

 

[Hot Coldman]

Masters of the Universe is a work of art.

 

[Xater]

Finally. Did it in the dumbest way possible.

 

[derFeef]

The new level looks really tough. But every level does until you have the memory down.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Today was great, 2 bosses down! Really hope he finishes next week.

 

[Xater]

Today was great, 2 bosses down! Really hope he finishes next week.

The last level is pretty long. Depends on how fast he will get stuff down.

 

[Zocano]

The last level is pretty long. Depends on how fast he will get stuff down.

I feel like the last two bosses will take him a long time to get down.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.

I am actually one of those PS3 users who switched to a 360 after being continuously disappointed in multiplatform performance. (Specifically Bethesda games) From the looks of things right now, the multiplats' differences are even greater than those comparisons.

But even assuming I'm a minority in that, and I probably am, what I don't understand is the seeming switch in rhetoric from so many in the games press. We've been listening to folks all over, Giant Bomb included, tell us how great it has been to game on PCs that get 1080p/60fps. Now, we finally have systems that are capable of this on some level, but now it's, "There's no big difference between 720p and 1080p." That seems downright counter to all that prior talk. If someone had told you that 720p was as good as 1080p six months ago, would you have still said it isn't a big deal?

Given most of us will be making a choice as to where we will spend our money, multiplat performance seems like an entirely legitimate concern. Prior to this difference between the consoles coming to light, 720p vs. 1080p certainly seemed like a substantial gap. I don't understand what changed to make this a largely irrelevant difference.

Edit: Also, I see your Volgar stream is going on. I look forward to watching your progress. I have faith in you.

 

[Zaph]

The last few pages are the most of read/thought about this whole resolution thing and, regardless of argument merit, I'm already sick of it.

I now totally get how they must feel.

 

[Curufinwe]

I am actually one of those PS3 users who switched to a 360 after being continuously disappointed in multiplatform performance. (Specifically Bethesda games) From the looks of things right now, the multiplats' differences are even greater than those comparisons.

But even assuming I'm a minority in that, and I probably am, what I don't understand is the seeming switch in rhetoric from so many in the games press. We've been listening to folks all over, Giant Bomb included, tell us how great it has been to game on PCs that get 1080p/60fps. Now, we finally have systems that are capable of this on some level, but now it's, "There's no big difference between 720p and 1080p." That seems downright counter to all that prior talk. If someone had told you that 720p was as good as 1080p six months ago, would you have still said it isn't a big deal?

Given most of us will be making a choice as to where we will spend our money, multiplat performance seems like an entirely legitimate concern. Prior to this difference between the consoles coming to light, 720p vs. 1080p certainly seemed like a substantial gap. I don't understand what changed to make this a largely irrelevant difference.

Speaking of Bethesda games, hands up anyone who thinks the difference between running Skyrim at 720p on an HDTV and running it at 1080p was not perceptible?

 

[justjim89]

Which is the preferred Deadly Premonition ER? I only really want to get into one.

 

[Zaph]

Jeff/Vinny. Always Jeff/Vinny. The other ER's aren't worth watching.

 

[vitaminwateryum]

Jeff/Vinny. Always Jeff/Vinny. The other ER's aren't worth watching.

JV is the better of the two, but BR definitely had its moments.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Which is the preferred Deadly Premonition ER? I only really want to get into one.

B/R has its moments, but its basically just Brad being Brad while Ryan laughs in amusement.

 

[Alo81]

Ryan laughs in amusement.

That's usually pretty good though.

Also, B/R was the first thing I watched when I became premium.

I think you should watch B/R first if you've never played the game because you get the entertainment of the actual game itself and their playing, and then the J/V one at some other point because they're more entertaining together and you don't need the supplementary kicks of the story.

 

[Antiwhippy]

You don't need premium to watch the DP ERs though.

 

[Patryn]

So... Uh.....

What do people hope they play this weekend?

 

[funkystudent]

WWE QL is cancelled?

So since they know people like the WWE Quick looks this is just a stealthy way to rename it and put it behind the premium membership right?

 

[Alo81]

You don't need premium to watch the DP ERs though.

Then it was actually the first thing I watched on the site all together! (Apart from a Youtube best of).

I had remembered it being a "my first time" thing, and I assumed it was premium content so it had to be first after buying premium. Guess it was totally just my first intro. I was really into Lets Plays at the time so it makes sense.

WWE QL is cancelled?

So since they know people like the WWE Quick looks this is just a stealthy way to rename it and put it behind the premium membership right?

Are you referring to Jeffs tweets from earlier?

 

[Fotheringay]

So... Uh.....

What do people hope they play this weekend?

I hope Vinny does something with Euro Truck again. Doesn't have to be 24hrs but god damn him playing that game was magic.

 

[megalowho]

So... Uh.....

What do people hope they play this weekend?

Sega CD is confirmed so you know it's gonna be an alright time. They could probably kill an hour or so with the startup loop alone.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

The last level is pretty long. Depends on how fast he will get stuff down.

Yeah, I watched a playthrough on YT of the last 2 levels after posting that comment, noticed they are fairly long. The next boss, however, doesn't seem particularly hard. Pretty easy pattern to spot, i'd say.

 

[sneaky77]

But even assuming I'm a minority in that, and I probably am, what I don't understand is the seeming switch in rhetoric from so many in the games press. We've been listening to folks all over, Giant Bomb included, tell us how great it has been to game on PCs that get 1080p/60fps. Now, we finally have systems that are capable of this on some level, but now it's, "There's no big difference between 720p and 1080p." That seems downright counter to all that prior talk. If someone had told you that 720p was as good as 1080p six months ago, would you have still said it isn't a big deal?
.

You make a good point, and to be honest I would like to hear some honest discussion in the podcast about it, it doesn't matter if the mainstream consumer gives a fuck or doesn't, most people listening to the podcast and most subscribers are probably people that follow videogames closer than the mainstream consumer Brad refers to that won't care (I am going to bet that kinda gamer is not going to buy a new system at full price and at launch, and will wait until drops)

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Set down your agenda for a second and let's try a little critical thinking. Patrick is either

-dismissing an issue out of hand because he and he alone doesn't have the hardware to tell the difference, or

-applying his own example to illustrate why technical minutiae is somewhere around eighth on the list of factors that will determine the success of these consoles, as it's always been

Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.

I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.

I don't raise my hand to either that OR saying its first 3 years of life wasn't hot garbage or better than the 360. My love for Sony died in 2006 E3. When Sony got their act together and MS lost the script 4 years later, I tagged out the 360 and not a second sooner.

I'm still confused as to why MS wasn't given that same level of "dah fuq is this shit?!?" treatment Sony deserved and got 7 long years ago. It was withering from all angles and factions except the hardest of hardcore Sony fanboys.

 

[CzarTim]

I don't raise my hand to either that OR saying its first 3 years of life wasn't hot garbage or better than the 360. My love for Sony died in 2006 E3. When Sony got their act together and MS lost the script 4 years later, I tagged out the 360 and not a second sooner.

I'm still confused as to why MS wasn't given that same level of "dah fuq is this shit?!?" treatment Sony deserved and got 7 long years ago. It was withering from all angles and factions except the hardest of hardcore Sony fanboys.

"I want both consoles to succeed because it's better for the industry. If one fails, we would have an uncompetitive market. Another company would totally not make a new console to fill a gap in the market. Because that's how markets work. I know this because I'm a games journalist."

 

[Aaron]

"I want both consoles to succeed because it's better for the industry. If one fails, we would have an uncompetitive market. Another company would totally not make a new console to fill a gap in the market. Because that's how markets work. I know this because I'm a games journalist."

"But fuck the Wii U cause Nintendo."

 

[megalowho]

"But fuck the Wii U cause Nintendo."

Not sure who you're quoting, but Brad has been telling anyone who will listen to buy a Wii U this holiday season instead of either new console. Sometimes I think people just hear what they want to hear.

 

[Defunkled]

Sega CD is confirmed so you know it's gonna be an alright time. They could probably kill an hour or so with the startup loop alone.

Oh shit, really? Gonna be so good.

 

[funkystudent]

Is anyone going to be in the office for this charity stream or is everyone did it from home?

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Is anyone going to be in the office for this charity stream or is everyone did it from home?

I think Drew and Alexis are going to be in the office.

 

[demidar]

I think Drew and Alexis are going to be in the office.

I thought everyone sans Brad would be in the office, maybe not at the same time but still.

What I want to know is if Brad's gonna finally take off the wrap from his Mario Galaxy copy and play it.

 

[I should be doing hw]

I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure the collectable shanties are the selling point for me with AC4. I've never even played or been interested in the AC series prior to this either.

 

[Serra]

Jeff or Vinny needs to play Eurotruck. Or both, simultaneus Eurotruck madness!

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.

The problem is the Xbox had a year headstart on PS3 which is the only reason it was super popular, friends who wanted to play games with their friends didn't have any choice but buy Xbox 360.

With all the PR disasters and 180s Microsoft has had before the console has even freaking launched it gives people a chance to make an informed decision, especially now it is pretty much a clean break from the 360 ecosystem thanks to there being zip backwards compatibility. Mainstream people don't usually rush out and buy a console at launch.

With all the negative press surrounding Xbone including performance, resolution and image quality being inferior to PS4 it means people might change their mind and get the better performing console that is $100 cheaper that has more 1080p games with better image quality and more stable framerates.

The trail blazers and early adopters will shape what friends get what consoles.

 

[CzarTim]

The problem is the Xbox had a year headstart on PS3 which is the only reason it was super popular, friends who wanted to play games with their friends didn't have any choice but buy Xbox 360.

With all the PR disasters and 180s Microsoft has had before the console has even freaking launched it gives people a chance to make an informed decision, especially now it is pretty much a clean break from the 360 ecosystem thanks to there being zip backwards compatibility. Mainstream people don't usually rush out and buy a console at launch.

With all the negative press surrounding Xbone including performance, resolution and image quality being inferior to PS4 it means people might change their mind and get the better performing console that is $100 cheaper that has more 1080p games with better image quality and more stable framerates.

The trail blazers and early adopters will shape what friends get what consoles.

Games journalists can't report on confirmed faults of a console before it is released, silly. Obviously they have to wait until after people spend $500 on an inferior piece of hardware.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Games journalists can't report on confirmed faults of a console before it is released, silly. Obviously they have to wait until after people spend $500 on an inferior piece of hardware.

It's irritating as fuck to see and read, they are afraid to have an opinion just in case it damages relationships they have with Microsoft, Sony or publishers.

Brad rarely has an opinion of his own, he always says "well I haven't seen x and x" or "I don't have x or x" or "I haven't played x or x", grow a set of balls and have an opinion.

 

[I should be doing hw]

It's irritating as fuck to see and read, they are afraid to have an opinion just in case it damages relationships they have with Microsoft, Sony or publishers.

Brad rarely has an opinion of his own, he always says "well I haven't seen x and x" or "I don't have x or x" or "I haven't played x or x", grow a set of balls and have an opinion.

It's worse when you are being told such issues aren't noticeable, to the majority or otherwise, and that's supposed to be that. As journalists and critics, or whatever it is you identify your profession as, your job involves a fluctuating balance of fact and opinion. Don't tell me something doesn't matter at the cost of articulating clearly whatever it is I'm supposed to be blissfully ignorant about. Whether it matters or not is something I can decide for myself. If you're doing your job right you should be helping inform my decision with correct information weighted by how much I value your opinion (based on the way you've presented the former).
"Eh, you probably won't notice it anyway. Don't fuss about it," doesn't quite cut it for me.