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[pelican]

Mainstream consumers absolutely do care about differences in graphical performance, which is what the resolution gaps are evidence of. Especially those consumers who would consider buying a new console at full price during its first year on the market.

It can effect the younger players. While this is an isolated example while in a GAME store I heard a mother and kid pre-ordering a PS4. When the mother asked if her son was sure he wanted to change to Playstation [I presume he owns a 360] he simply said yes because the new Xbox was "crap".

As I said an isolated story, but knowing how tribal kids are I bet his school friends are probably all saying the same. And I doubt very much this example contains the only kid in the UK who is swapping brand due to thinking this.

 

[CzarTim]

It's worse when you are being told such issues aren't noticeable, to the majority or otherwise, and that's supposed to be that. As journalists and critics, or whatever it is you identify your profession as, your job involves a fluctuating balance of fact and opinion. Don't tell me something doesn't matter at the cost of articulating clearly whatever it is I'm supposed to be blissfully ignorant about. Whether it matters or not is something I can decide for myself. If you're doing your job right you should be helping inform my decision with correct information weighted by how much I value your opinion (based on the way you've presented the former).
"Eh, you probably won't notice it anyway. Don't fuss about it," doesn't quite cut it for me.

Yup. Let's spend 10 minutes discussing the Neo Geo, but not even mention a problem with a device millions of people are about to spend money on.

I mean, fuck, I kind of agree that GAF blew the resolution thing way out of proportion. But just because something isn't the biggest-issue-ever doesn't mean it should be completely ignored. Take five minutes out of a three hour podcast to say, "Hey, one of the biggest games of the year is running better on one console than the other, just thought you should know."

 

[chogidogs]

I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.

I heard you make this point at the Bombcast numerous times. I chose to buy multiplats for PS not because I prefer it, I bought it for PS4 because that's the only thing I owned at the time (bought it for MGS4.)

That's why I think this generation is so interesting. Both of them will start at the same time so every bit of information would generally be helpful for the consumer make the best decision for their needs.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yup. Let's spend 10 minutes discussing the Neo Geo, but not even mention a problem with a device millions of people are spending money on.

I mean, fuck, I kind of agree that GAF blew the resolution thing way out of proportion. But just because something isn't the biggest-issue-ever doesn't mean it should be completely ignored. Take five minutes out of a three hour podcast to say, "Hey, one of the biggest games of the year is running better on one console than the other, just thought you should know."

Wasn't the resolution thing confirmed after the podcast?

 

[CzarTim]

Wasn't the resolution thing confirmed after the podcast?

Officially, yes. But I'm pretty sure it was more-or-less confirmed by Sunday night. Either way, don't act like they aren't making a big deal about how this is not a big deal.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm not really, but they're usually pretty mum on rumour stuff.

 

[Dragon]

I'm not really, but they're usually pretty mum on rumour stuff.

They haven't been mum. Jeff especially has been snarky about it on the podcast and his tumblr.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Because it's a rumour?

If they don't talk about it on the podcast next week or on the bombin' the AM than I can see bitching about them not talking about it, but I don't really blame them for not keeping up on the constant bickering in the console wars when there wasn't really anything official, because let me just say, as someone who doesn't really care about the new consoles yet (though I'm leaning towards the PS4), that shit is tiring.

 

[Bedlam]

You make a lot of great points Brad, but I thought I'd add a few things.

Mainstream consumers do give a fuck about the resolution of their games. This is more important early in the generation than later on, but rest assured "better graphics" is a selling point for everyone buying these systems for Call of Duty and Battlefield and the other 2 available games, and winning the narrative there is something both Sony and Microsoft care very much about. Microsoft wouldn't have made so many comments on GAF and reddit, or published quite a few articles on DF if it was just for nothing.

There are other factors that are important in addition to the ones you listed, but so far the most important by far has been one that the enthusiast press also largely dismissed: the online DRM stuff.

As for your PS3 comparison, it did indeed suffer with worse multiplatform games a lot of the time. But let me ask you something - how many times, over the years, have you heard the phrase "not only exclusive to PS3, only possible on PS3"? Sony used that like a billion times. They'd show montage of developers saying "the PS3 was hard, but once we learned it, it's incredibly powerful!" They fought the "PS3 is inferior" message very hard to the point where PS3 fans will argue to this day that its exclusive games look much better and that third party developers with inferior games are lazy. Anecdotally I've seen people confuse the PS3 as more powerful simply because it had Blu-ray and the 360 only had DVD.

Point being, the idea that the Xbox 360 was 50% to 125% more powerful than the PS3 never really took off in the mainstream, and that's because Sony fought to keep that from happening, so I don't think the situation is comparable. The difference also couldn't be easily explained back then in a way consumers understood, not as easy as 1080p vs 720p anyway.

Good post.

The numbers aren't even that important. Brad might very well be right when he says not even everyone on Gaf could tell the difference between 720p and 1080p unless someone showed them direct comparisons.

What does matter though is the overall narrative: "console x is slightly better than y", "it's also cheaper", "it's the better deal" etc. And this narrative eventually hits the mainstream via word of mouth that spreads from hardcore audiences and subsequently from softcore audiences (Fifa/COD/Madden-only-players) who generally follow the hardcore audience.

The PS3 eventually became rather infamous as the lesser console for most games and it was the more expensive one on top of that. Consumers do care, especially since the new consoles go head to head as far as the release date goes.

This is anecdotal, but my group of friends over here in Germany (many of whom played on PS2 before, others didn't have a console, no one had an Xbox) collectively played on 360 this generation because of the reasons I mentioned above (games generally looked a bit better, console was cheaper, word spread from the hardcore guys to softcore guys etc.). Now, the whole group is collectively switching over to Sony again and even the guys who switch on their console only a couple of times in a year will get a PS4, because we told them that we will get a PS4 and why.

 

[Dragon]

Because it's a rumour?

If they don't talk about it on the podcast next week or on the bombin' the AM than I can see bitching about them not talking about it, but I don't really blame them for not keeping up on the constant bickering in the console wars when there wasn't really anything official, because let me just say, as someone who doesn't really care about the new consoles yet (though I'm leaning towards the PS4), that shit is tiring.

Your post was about them being mum. I responded with evidence that that isn't true. Now you claim it's because it's a rumor. It's not a rumor it's a fact.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Is it safe to visit this thread again or are people still angry because GiantBomb is GiantBomb? Is this the next iteration of Breaking Brad?

 

[Antiwhippy]

Your post was about them being mum. I responded with evidence that that isn't true. Now you claim it's because it's a rumor. It's not a rumor it's a fact.

If you were following my conversation you would know that I was talking about them being mum about it on the bombcast, and when the last bombcast was released it very much was still a rumour.

Any other objections?

 

[Dragon]

If you were following my conversation you would know that I was talking about them being mum about it on the bombcast, which they haven't, and when the last bombcast was released it very much was still a rumour.

Any other objections?

Just your moving goalposts and complete and utter naïveté.

 

[Backfoggen]

I read a couple of threads about next-gen resolutions and this one kinda blends it now it's sad.

 

[demidar]

I missed the boat on Resolution-gate despite hearing about it on several podcasts, so can someone give me the gist of it?

 

[super-famicom]

Is it safe to visit this thread again or are people still angry because GiantBomb is GiantBomb? Is this the next iteration of Breaking Brad?

I haven't visited the thread in about a week, then I read the last couple pages and got horribly confused...

 

[Bedlam]

I read a couple of threads about next-gen resolutions and this one kinda blends it now it's sad.

We're just responding to Brad's "most people don't care about resolution differences" remark.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Just your moving goalposts and complete and utter naïveté.

No seriously, what goalposts am I moving? Can you point out the posts where I contradict myself, because if I did then sorry for wasting your time.

 

[f0rk]

I missed the boat on Resolution-gate despite hearing about it on several podcasts, so can someone give me the gist of it?

A few of the cross platform launch games will be 900-1080p on PS4 and 720p on Xbox.
There is no evidence either way about how much of an effect this will have in real world situations after you add upscaling and technical shit like that. But still, people are really mad about the difference.
In this thread people are mad that Giantbomb haven't talked much / aren't that mad about the numbers like they are.

 

[demidar]

A few of the cross platform launch games will be 900-1080p on PS4 and 720p on Xbox.
There is no evidence either way about how much of an effect this will have in real world situations after you add upscaling and technical shit like that. But still, people are really mad about the difference.
In this thread people are mad that Giantbomb haven't talked much / aren't that mad about the numbers like they are.

I see.

That resolution jargon doesn't even need to go that far imo. Just say "Is more powerful and costs $100 less" will perk up most people's ears. Being lower price is a far more valued metric to the average person, having it pushing larger numbers (whatever the numbers may be) is just the cherry on top.

Seems like people are just angry Giant Bomb refuses to be recruited under their respective sides, and to that I say "Keep that shit outta here". Giant Bomb gonna Giant Bomb, getting angry at that is dumb.

 

[bjork]

getting angry at that is dumb.

this is really the key takeaway. If someone's worst problem in life is the resolution of a goddamn video game, they need to stand back and think about that for a second.

 

[Hot Coldman]

this is really the key takeaway. If someone's worst problem in life is the resolution of a goddamn video game, they need to stand back and think about that for a second.

No that just means they are living a life of bliss and joy and wonder

Every second is like an orgasm, except when Microsoft makes bad hardware, damn you Microsoft

 

[Antiwhippy]

An orgasm every second sounds painful.

 

[RaikuHebi]

this is really the key takeaway. If someone's worst problem in life is the resolution of a goddamn video game, they need to stand back and think about that for a second.

So we should just put our fingers in our ears and LALALALALALALA?

 

[LCfiner]

Maybe some others feel this way: I'm not upset in any way that they didn't report on it. I think it's a little odd that they didn't after it was confirmed but, whatever. I can get why some people might not choose to report it.

I do, however, think the reasoning Patrick gave to why he didn't report on it to be pretty poor and his attitude on his tumblr ridiculously dismissive. And then Brad's comments here about how "Joe Blow" won't notice or whatever to be irrelevant. Their site is the very last thing geared towards Joe Blow gamer. People who go there (and here) are the very people who would care. If you think it has no merit, fine. But saying that it has no interest - or no impact - for your audience is kind of silly.

Their reaction to the reaction has been a little upsetting to me. I feel like if they hadn't commented on it, this whole thing would've died in this thread yesterday morning.

 

[demidar]

So we should just put our fingers in our ears and LALALALALALALA?

Are you asserting that there's no midpoint between "meh" and "WORST FUCKING THING EVERRRRRRRR"?

It's possible for someone to think this isn't the end of the world.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah, I'm honestly perplexed by patrick's reaction to it. Hopefully he gets into it more during bombin', because if he's honestly not talking about it for a reason as piss poor as the resolution of his TV than that would be troubling.

 

[Rapstah]

Are you asserting that there's no midpoint between "meh" and "WORST FUCKING THING EVERRRRRRRR"?

It's possible for someone to think this isn't the end of the world.

The idea that there are people out there who literally think it's the "WORST FUCKING THING EVERRRRR" is in itself so hyperbolic that the discussion automatically moves away from the existence of people inbetween.

 

[0xCA2]

I see.

That resolution jargon doesn't even need to go that far imo. Just say "Is more powerful and costs $100 less" will perk up most people's ears. Being lower price is a far more valued metric to the average person, having it pushing larger numbers (whatever the numbers may be) is just the cherry on top.

Seems like people are just angry Giant Bomb refuses to be recruited under their respective sides, and to that I say "Keep that shit outta here". Giant Bomb gonna Giant Bomb, getting angry at that is dumb.

What's strange is that I recall GB talking about XBO's flaws as a console numerous times. It's not like they're afraid to point out that it's less powerful, and that it's $100 more expensive because it comes with a peripheral no one wants. They seem to joke about this regularly. And they will joke about it both during and after launch.

Anyway, I can't wait to see their livestreams at launch, and I'm excited about the one that they're doing this weekend.

Yeah, I'm honestly perplexed by patrick's reaction to it. Hopefully he gets into it more during bombin', because if he's honestly not talking about it for a reason as piss poor as the resolution of his TV than that would be troubling.

Too much was read into that. He was saying that, as a consumer, he didn't care about the resolution issues because of his TV, and that he himself wasn't big into graphics. That wasn't why he didn't report on COD.

As for CoD: I’m not ignoring it, we just didn’t put a note about it on the site. I fail to see what the big deal is? We barely run any news. Giant Bomb is not a one stop shop. Never has been, never will be.

I do, however, think the reasoning Patrick gave to why he didn't report on it to be pretty poor and his attitude on his tumblr ridiculously dismissive. And then Brad's comments here about how "Joe Blow" won't notice or whatever to be irrelevant. Their site is the very last thing geared towards Joe Blow gamer. People who go there (and here) are the very people who would care. If you think it has no merit, fine. But saying that it has no interest - or no impact - for your audience is kind of silly.

I think a problem is that there's a bunch of different arguments going on at the same time, and people are taking their answers to one argument as an answer to all of them.

 

[Kerned]

Brad rarely has an opinion of his own, he always says "well I haven't seen x and x" or "I don't have x or x" or "I haven't played x or x", grow a set of balls and have an opinion.

I don't think that's fair to say. Have you listened to the GOTY podcasts? Brad probably has the strongest, most unswayable opinions of anyone. As far as the resolution issues go, I think they are important (or at very least interesting) enough to talk about, but most of that news didn't start breaking until Tuesday, so I would be surprised if there isn't some sort of discussion about it on next week's podcast.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I don't think that's fair to say. Have you listened to the GOTY podcasts? Brad probably has the strongest, most unswayable opinions of anyone. As far as the resolution issues go, I think they are important (or at very least interesting) enough to talk about, but most of that news didn't start breaking until Tuesday, so I would be surprised if there isn't some sort of discussion about it on next week's podcast.

I don't remember when but I think it was last Unpro Friday when Jeff asked Brad something he wouldnt comment it and Jeff made a quip about not having an opinion.

 

[Kerned]

I don't remember when but I think it was last Unpro Friday when Jeff asked Brad something he wouldnt comment it and Jeff made a quip about not having an opinion.

I don't think it's a very strong argument to use on-air banter between Jeff and Brad as evidence that Brad "rarely has an opinion of his own."

 

[komplanen]

Brad rarely has an opinion of his own, he always says "well I haven't seen x and x" or "I don't have x or x" or "I haven't played x or x", grow a set of balls and have an opinion.

So by this logic I could say Gears of War 4 is really fucking awesome and you wouldn't call me out on it?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

So by this logic I could say Gears of War 4 is really fucking awesome and you wouldn't call me out on it?

Gears of War 4 isn't a thing, Xbox One and poor performance is and has demonstrable proof.

 

[bjork]

So we should just put our fingers in our ears and LALALALALALALA?

No, like I said, it sounds like some people need to reassess. Pretty simple. You know what I'm saying.

 

[CzarTim]

No, like I said, it sounds like some people need to reassess. Pretty simple. You know what I'm saying.

Saying there are more important issues in the world is a really poor argument. By that logic, there shouldn't be a Giant Bomb or NeoGAF because video games don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't think people are angry as much as confused by the dismissive tone by GB. They did the same thing with DRM, and they were wrong then too.

As someone else said, this wouldn't even be an issue if they had never even broached the subject. Instead they keep poking the anthill and going, "Haha, look at all these people who care about numbers I think don't matter." As if that's the real issue. If people get the console their friends get, then I think it's pretty important that the biggest casual game series runs better on the cheaper console.

 

[megalowho]

Gears of War 4 isn't a thing, Xbox One and poor performance is and has demonstrable proof.

Lol, poor performance it is now. How about the fact that Knack apparently has framerate issues, according to Jeff? But hey, 1080p.

Their opinion has been pretty clear, despite various embargoes they are probably under after actually having hands on time with the stuff (as opposed to arguing about it sight unseen). Both launches are underwhelming, the leap over current PC standards we usually see isn't there, we will all have a better sense of how things turned out once boxes are out with those day one patches applied, and Wii U is a better buy if you have to get a console this holiday.

 

[Dragon]

No, like I said, it sounds like some people need to reassess. Pretty simple. You know what I'm saying.

We're talking about video game journalists here. Your argument is completely irrelevant.

Here's another irrelevant argument; there are starving people in every country in the world, why are you posting on a video game website instead of helping them?

Lol, poor performance it is now. How about the fact that Knack apparently has framerate issues, according to Jeff? But hey, 1080p.

Their opinion has been pretty clear, despite various embargoes they are probably under after actually having hands on time with the stuff (as opposed to arguing about it sight unseen). Both launches are underwhelming, the leap over current PC standards we usually see isn't there, we will all have a better sense of how things turned out once boxes are out with those day one patches applied, and Wii U is a better buy if you have to get a console this holiday.

Sony has been forthcoming about the fact that Knack goes between 30-60 fps.

Their arguments about the PC fall flat, as the beginning of the last gen, this was the same thing. They just weren't into the PC as much then.

 

[RaikuHebi]

Lol, poor performance it is now. How about the fact that Knack apparently has framerate issues, according to Jeff? But hey, 1080p.

You're comparing working builds to final builds and also citing a game where you can't directly compare the differences.

 

[Ninhead]

this is really the key takeaway. If someone's worst problem in life is the resolution of a goddamn video game, they need to stand back and think about that for a second.

*This post sponsored by Microsoft.*

Did I do that right? Do I get my tennis shoes and beverage now?

 

[Xater]

Lol, poor performance it is now. How about the fact that Knack apparently has framerate issues, according to Jeff? But hey, 1080p.

Their opinion has been pretty clear, despite various embargoes they are probably under after actually having hands on time with the stuff (as opposed to arguing about it sight unseen). Both launches are underwhelming, the leap over current PC standards we usually see isn't there, we will all have a better sense of how things turned out once boxes are out with those day one patches applied, and Wii U is a better buy if you have to get a console this holiday.

Knack has a variable framerate of 30-60, which of course people already questioned. While it might never drop below 30 it still means you will recognize the drops. In my opinion they should have just locked it at 30.

 

[Haunted]

I'm not surprised to hear Patrick "I was fine with Far Cry 3's performance on consoles" Klepek downplaying a 720p/1080p resolution difference.

Disappointed, but not surprised.

Maybe some others feel this way: I'm not upset in any way that they didn't report on it. I think it's a little odd that they didn't after it was confirmed but, whatever. I can get why some people might not choose to report it.

I do, however, think the reasoning Patrick gave to why he didn't report on it to be pretty poor and his attitude on his tumblr ridiculously dismissive. And then Brad's comments here about how "Joe Blow" won't notice or whatever to be irrelevant. Their site is the very last thing geared towards Joe Blow gamer. People who go there (and here) are the very people who would care. If you think it has no merit, fine. But saying that it has no interest - or no impact - for your audience is kind of silly.

Their reaction to the reaction has been a little upsetting to me. I feel like if they hadn't commented on it, this whole thing would've died in this thread yesterday morning.

The "Joe Average won't notice" angle is the rhetoric that best serves Microsoft, and least serves Giantbomb's targeted readership (enthusiast gamers). I assume that's why people reacted so strongly to it.

 

[Xater]

I'm not surprised to hear Patrick "I was fine with Far Cry 3's performance on consoles" Klepek downplaying a 720p/1080p resolution difference.

Disappointed, but not surprised.

I had to play it on PS3 and I don't think there was a day where I did not complain how bad the performance was.

 

[komplanen]

I'm not surprised to hear Patrick "I was fine with Far Cry 3's performance on consoles" Klepek downplaying a 720p/1080p resolution difference.

Disappointed, but not surprised.

I would actually love to be a fly in the ceiling on some gamers to see what they thought of the performance. And I don't mean the kind of gamers that frequent on forums.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Lol, poor performance it is now. How about the fact that Knack apparently has framerate issues, according to Jeff? But hey, 1080p.

CoD, BF4, Titanfall (rumoured not confirmed) are running 720p, Ryse is 900p, Dead Rising 3 is dynamic resolution depending whats on screen could mean anything from 720p to 1080p, so yeah poor performance.

Knack doesn't have framerate issues it just runs at an unlocked framerate just like Killzone single player of between 30 and 60fps. They could easily lock them off at 30fps for a consistent experience.

 

[bjork]

Saying there are more important issues in the world is a really poor argument. By that logic, there shouldn't be a Giant Bomb or NeoGAF because video games don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't think people are angry as much as confused by the dismissive tone by GB. They did the same thing with DRM, and they were wrong then too.

As someone else said, this wouldn't even be an issue if they had never even broached the subject. Instead they keep poking the anthill and going, "Haha, look at all these people who care about numbers I think don't matter." As if that's the real issue. If people get the console their friends get, then I think it's pretty important that the biggest casual game series runs better on the cheaper console.

I guess I'm just not understanding, because if I don't like a product or a company, I don't support them. Seems like a lot of this thread consists of people that take issue with a lot of what GB does, and in a more aggressive way than I've probably ever been about anything.

As far as the console choice goes, if people mainly base their purchase on which one their friends picked, I'm assuming that outweighs issues with performance, positive or negative, doesn't it?

 

[megalowho]

CoD, BF4, Titanfall (rumoured not confirmed) are running 720p, Ryse is 900p, Dead Rising 3 is dynamic resolution depending whats on screen could mean anything from 720p to 1080p, so yeah poor performance.

Knack doesn't have framerate issues it just runs at an unlocked framerate just like Killzone single player of between 30 and 60fps. They could easily lock them off at 30fps for a consistent experience.

They did not though, and the result is apparently unstable framerates. Is it so hard to admit that games on both consoles just might have various performance issues at launch?

 

[f0rk]

It is way too early to say Xbox games have poor performance just based on resolution when you haven't even seen either console running in real life. Games will most likely look and run better on PS4, but no one really knows to what extent yet. This damning of the Xbox when we don't have anywhere close to a full picture of real world results is ridiculous.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

They did not though, and the result is apparently unstable framerates. Is it so hard to admit that games on both consoles just might have various performance issues at launch?

Still struggling to understand why 30 to 60fps are performance issues, if they dip below 30 then yeah fair enough. The fact that Xbox has to run 720p to hit the same target that is 1080p on PS4 means there is something wrong.

It is way too early to say Xbox games have poor performance just based on resolution when you haven't even seen either console running in real life. Games will most likely look and run better on PS4, but no one really knows to what extent yet. This damning of the Xbox when we don't have anywhere close to a full picture of real world results is ridiculous.

Running 720p isn't a design decision, it is a cheap and easy way of getting performance back when you start piling on the effects, coupled with the fact that we KNOW what specs the consoles are the PS4 has a clear advantage.

 

[CzarTim]

I guess I'm just not understanding, because if I don't like a product or a company, I don't support them. Seems like a lot of this thread consists of people that take issue with a lot of what GB does, and in a more aggressive way than I've probably ever been about anything.

As far as the console choice goes, if people mainly base their purchase on which one their friends picked, I'm assuming that outweighs issues with performance, positive or negative, doesn't it?

I love Giant Bomb, I spend a great amount of time every week with them. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of them.

The "console my friends got" theory is Brad's, not mine. My point is that reporting on the facts so consumers can make a more informed decision before spending $500 seems like a good idea since the most popular franchise is confirmed to run at a higher resolution on another (cheaper) system.