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[No_Style]

Set down your agenda for a second and let's try a little critical thinking. Patrick is either

-dismissing an issue out of hand because he and he alone doesn't have the hardware to tell the difference, or

-applying his own example to illustrate why technical minutiae is somewhere around eighth on the list of factors that will determine the success of these consoles, as it's always been

Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.

I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.

I love you guys. I think you are very entertaining bunch and I will continue enjoying the content you guys put out but I'm going to call bullshit on this.

If you guys don't want to cover a topic because you don't find it to be a big deal, then admit it. State that it doesn't affect you or that you don't have the background discuss it and move on. Don't use the "mainstream's audience's lack of interest" as your scapegoat.

GiantBomb covers a wide range of topics that "Joe Blow" or the "mainstream audience" doesn't give a damn about -- from indie games, to developer closures, to playing FMV games from the 1990s.

GiantBomb have always been about covering what they care about and have openly stated that fact. This is the one time that I can recall where some of you are dismissing a topic because the "mainstream" will not care.

I would also like to point out that "follow your friends" advice is very presumptious. It is assuming this nebulous group of friends are unwavering and stubborn people who cannot not be swayed. If we're talking about a current generation release of a game or a late comer to a generation of consoles, this advice would be fine. However, this a new generation and people are there are in the same boat as Vinny and his family. This is the time to discuss the merits of each platform and to decide which one the group should invest in.

If we all had the ability to spend $~1000 on console hardware and spend ~$100 per year on online service fees, I agree, these discussions are pointless. But we're not all in that boat.

 

[megalowho]

Still struggling to understand why 30 to 60fps are performance issues, if they dip below 30 then yeah fair enough. The fact that Xbox has to run 720p to hit the same target that is 1080p on PS4 means there is something wrong.



Running 720p isn't a design decision, it is a cheap and easy way of getting performance back when you start piling on the effects, coupled with the fact that we KNOW what specs the consoles are the PS4 has a clear advantage.

There's nothing wrong though - Xbox One is a less powerful machine. Just like the PS2, just like the Wii. If power matters, invest in a PC because the PS4, while looking to be more impressive technically, is never gonna match up comparatively. And if power is not the most important factor, which it definitely is not for me, we can start talking about the games, UI experiences, network play, controllers, etc. instead of getting hung up on who has more p's while the games themselves remain sight unseen.

 

[chogidogs]

There's nothing wrong though - Xbox One is a less powerful machine. Just like the PS2, just like the Wii. If power matters, invest in a PC because the PS4, while looking to be more impressive technically, is never gonna match up comparatively. And if power is not the most important factor, which it definitely is not for me, we can start talking about the games, UI experiences, network play, controllers, etc. instead of getting hung up on who has more p's while the games themselves remain sight unseen.

This arguement doesn't stand on it's own though. The timing of when the console launches matters alot, the ease for developers to make games matters alot, and the price of the console matters alot. I don't know why people are getting hung up on performance when value is far more important.

 

[bjork]

I love Giant Bomb, I spend a great amount of time every week with them. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of them.

The "console my friends got" theory is Brad's, not mine. My point is that reporting on the facts so consumers can make a more informed decision before spending $500 seems like a good idea since the most popular franchise is confirmed to run at a higher resolution on another (cheaper) system.

To be fair, I've never noticed you before today, so I didn't mean you specifically. Just a general vibe that turns up in here from time to time.

In the past, have they not referenced things like resolution and framerate in the reviews? I don't really recall any performance discussions on a bombcast aside from PC issues like Vinny's dusty tower, or if there is a great variance... the most recent one I can think of is the Saints Row 4 review, but that was framerate and not resolution. I would imagine it would be covered in a review of that game, once the final thing is actually out, no? They've never come across to me as the site I'd go to for comparison information like that.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

There's nothing wrong though - Xbox One is a less powerful machine. Just like the PS2, just like the Wii. If power matters, invest in a PC because the PS4, while looking to be more impressive technically, is never gonna match up comparatively. And if power is not the most important factor, which it definitely is not for me, we can start talking about the games, UI experiences, network play, controllers, etc. instead of getting hung up on who has more p's while the games themselves remain sight unseen.

If power matters you don't need to buy a PC, you can spend $100 less and get a far more capable machine.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd take a rock-solid 60FPS 720p Knack, personally.

 

[Curufinwe]

Maybe some others feel this way: I'm not upset in any way that they didn't report on it. I think it's a little odd that they didn't after it was confirmed but, whatever. I can get why some people might not choose to report it.

I do, however, think the reasoning Patrick gave to why he didn't report on it to be pretty poor and his attitude on his tumblr ridiculously dismissive. And then Brad's comments here about how "Joe Blow" won't notice or whatever to be irrelevant. Their site is the very last thing geared towards Joe Blow gamer. People who go there (and here) are the very people who would care. If you think it has no merit, fine. But saying that it has no interest - or no impact - for your audience is kind of silly.

Their reaction to the reaction has been a little upsetting to me. I feel like if they hadn't commented on it, this whole thing would've died in this thread yesterday morning.

I feel exactly the same way. I had no problem with them not talking about it on the Bombcast on Monday when the facts weren't known for sure. But the reasons Patrick and Brad have given for why it doesn't matter and doesn't need to covered on the site are a bunch of hypocritical horseshit.

In a more positive vein, I watched a Spooking with Scoops for the first time this morning (the Fatal Frame 2 segment) and it was pretty great. The sound of the rain falling outside his house really amped up the spookiness. I guess he already played and finished FF3 back in the day, but if he hasn't then it would be worth doing, especially since it's on PSN for $10 now.

 

[megalowho]

This arguement doesn't stand on it's own though. The timing of when the console launches matters alot, the ease for developers to make games matters alot, and the price of the console matters alot. I don't know why people are getting hung up on performance when value is far more important.

You're right, I'd totally add value to that list. The $100 difference is going to be the kicker for many, especially less informed consumers just looking at new consoles side by side at the store. It's important for me as well, pretty much sealed the deal for my own PS4 preorder.

If power matters you don't need to buy a PC, you can spend $100 less and get a far more capable machine.

More capable than an Xbox One in terms of visual fidelity, yeah it's looking that way. Inferior to PC multiplatform releases out of the gate though, and inferior to Xbox One's proposed multimedia and set top box capabilities. Thankfully I already have a PC that I'm happy with, and for what I'm looking for in a new console PS4 fits the bill. But it's not a clear cut decision, and power/resolution remains the least interesting comparison point between the two for me.

 

[GolazoDan]

I'm not surprised to hear Patrick "I was fine with Far Cry 3's performance on consoles" Klepek downplaying a 720p/1080p resolution difference.

I swear Patrick wouldn't stop going on about how shitty the console version looked at the time of the game's release, I'd have to check the podcasts from late last year to be sure. That may have been Brad though. There's been a couple of games like that in the last year where guys on the Bombcast have annoyed me with their dismissals of the console versions compared to the PC version, Far Cry 3 was one of them for sure.

But that's alright. Patrick, Brad, I love you. Group hug, yeah?

I am kinda with Patrick r.e. his Tumblr answer though because I'm not a graphics person. Framerate's an issue for me because that can ruin the fun of a game. A muddy texture is unlikely to ruin the fun of a game. With COD it's even less of an issue unless one of the version's significantly less snappy. I'm definitely not playing that for the visuals.

 

[Curufinwe]

The story is less about COD, and more about confirmation that the PS4 is indeed significantly more powerful despite nine months of propaganda to the contrary from Microsoft spokesmen like Penello and Hyrb. To quote Richard Leadbetter:

The reality for Microsoft is that the raw spec differential it has battled against is not only borne out in what is arguably the most technologically advanced multi-platform game of the next-gen launch, but the gulf actually increases on a title that, on the face of it, isn't pushing boundaries to anything like the same degree.

Mark Rubin has previously suggested that there is no new Infinity Ward engine for the cross-generational Ghosts - rather that the studio has continued to build upon the existing tech. The situation is interesting in that we have a piece of technology that almost always favoured Microsoft's current-generation hardware now performing in a vastly superior manner on the competing platform in the next-gen era. It's a stunning turnaround.

This is a bigger news story than the PS4 not supporting DLNA and mp3s, as shitty as that is.

 

[sixghost]

I love Giant Bomb, I spend a great amount of time every week with them. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of them.

The "console my friends got" theory is Brad's, not mine. My point is that reporting on the facts so consumers can make a more informed decision before spending $500 seems like a good idea since the most popular franchise is confirmed to run at a higher resolution on another (cheaper) system.

The consoles aren't even out yet, how can anyone make an informed purchasing decision? The pre-ordering a console crowd seems pretty different from the informed decision crowd. To actually make an informed decision about a console you need to give it two or three years.

 

[Bedlam]

There's nothing wrong though - Xbox One is a less powerful machine. Just like the PS2, just like the Wii. If power matters, invest in a PC because the PS4, while looking to be more impressive technically, is never gonna match up comparatively. And if power is not the most important factor, which it definitely is not for me, we can start talking about the games, UI experiences, network play, controllers, etc. instead of getting hung up on who has more p's while the games themselves remain sight unseen.

Buying a console instead of a PC is already the conscious decision to go for a compromise between power and cost. This just extends naturally to the choice between the PS4 and the Xbone. Sure, exclusive games are a factor as well (both consoles offer good stuff, it's highly dependent on taste) but the >90% multiplatform games being affected by a power gap is just as much of a factor for me and many others. At least part of why I chose the 360 over the PS3 as my main gaming device (apart from PC) during the last geneneration were the usually slightly better looking 3rd party games.

 

[Mully]

I give the GB dudes a lot of credit for showing restraint and waiting to pass judgement on both systems until they have one of each in their office.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

People need to chill out here. When Giant Bomb has covered games they've never been dishonest about which version you should get if there's a large difference between the versions, there's no reason to think otherwise. The difference here is they've not started to cover next gen games yet?

 

[Ventilaator]

I probably agree with Brad's gaming tastes the least. Jeff has said that one of the goals of the site is for you to get to know the guys well enough to know who to trust when, and what I've gotten from that is to not trust Brad ever.

Just finished Brothers and he is absolutely correct about that game. Easily top 10, no matter what else happens during the rest of the year. I hope this means some Minerva's Den esque "We're choosing this, because this is the one we're choosing. My reasoning is that we're going to choose this one" arguments during GOTY time. It would be fun to actually be on his side when he does it.

 

[StuBurns]

Frankly, I think the bigger issue with either system is the day one patch for the PS4. The amount of features being added that day, is troubling.

Oh yes, of course. The XBO doesn't even function as a game machine without the day one patch, but no BR playback on PS4 without the patch, that's the big issue.

 

[Mully]

Oh yes, of course. The XBO doesn't even function as a game machine without the day one patch, but no BR playback on PS4 without the patch, that's the big issue.

I completely forgot about the XB1 patch.

 

[Xater]

Oh yes, of course. The XBO doesn't even function as a game machine without the day one patch, but no BR playback on PS4 without the patch, that's the big issue.

Some people really don't understand that these machine have been in production for a while. So of course you but just a basic OS on it which allows it to start, play games and connect to the internet. That way you give the guys who work on this stuff more time.

 

[Curufinwe]

It is troubling that you are aware that the PS4 needs a day one patch to make use of most of its features, but somehow unaware that the Xbone requires a 15-20 minute patch before it can play games.

Day one firmware patches are here to stay. They're only a problem if they take forever to download or brick systems.

 

[StuBurns]

Some people really don't understand that these machine have been in production for a while. So of course you but just a basic OS on it which allows it to start, play games and connect to the internet. That way you give the guys who work on this stuff more time.

Neither of them requiring the day on patches is an issue really. They'll both have games that have the newer FWs on them, and the systems themselves will get updated in production.

The only people who could get fucked by this is if they buy a day one XBO, and have no access to the internet, but MS have been very transparent about this, since the day they changed their policies. I also don't think the early adopters are likely to be the people without access to the net.

 

[Mully]

It is troubling that you are aware that the PS4 needs a day one patch to make use of most of its features, but somehow unaware that the Xbone requires a 15-20 minute patch before it can play games.

I'm getting a PS4, so yeah I'm a bit worried and more informed about the system I'm purchasing.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Day-one patches make it so they can produce units earlier and have more ready for launch day.

 

[ghst]

it's become a curiosity that with what feels like hundreds of games being added to steam each month, the PC platform has never been a more fertile bed for discussion of new titles. it is, inarguably, "where the games are". all the while console threads seem to have all congealed into the single element of PC gaming which console gamers have traditionally chastised PC guys for flooding their game discussion with.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Patrick mentioned going to a prison in Joliet, illinois. Was that the Prison Break place?

 

[SlowRevolution]

Patrick mentioned going to a prison in Joliet, illinois. Was that the Prison Break place?

I think so

 

[JesseEwiak]

"I want both consoles to succeed because it's better for the industry. If one fails, we would have an uncompetitive market. Another company would totally not make a new console to fill a gap in the market. Because that's how markets work. I know this because I'm a games journalist."

Obviously, it has to be a conspiracy. People can't have different opinions about what is important or not. It has to be a secret cabal of press getting together and saying, "OK, no matter how much NeoGAF gets pissed, we're going to ignore everything Microsoft does. All right? Shoemaker, you're in charge of pissing them off in the GB thread. Geis, passively aggressive Tweet about them on Twitter. Got it? Good."

 

[faridmon]

I am really starting to hate reading this thread for the reasons apparent in the last couple of pages. Guys, yes, it would be better if they reported on things like resolution and whatnot, but obviously they think that there are other factors they think its important to discuss than harping on that very fact. I don't think they have specified that it does not flat out matter, but other things will have a longer lasting effect than resolution, especially at launch. Yes, in the longer run, people will notice the difference and word of mouth will help formulate opinions on one console over the other, but initially, people will care about infrastructure, friends, social ability, marketing and exclusive games than simply numbers and technical features.

Don't get me wrong, Msoft and X1 are fucked (me thinks) but Resolution wars is the last thing that made them go into this position. Also, Patrick never remained positive about FC3's framerate, he thought it was fine until he saw the PC version. Of course he would think its fine since he only played version of the game. I wish people would stop throwing tantrums around just for some ulterior motives.

 

[dimb]

Patrick mentioned going to a prison in Joliet, illinois. Was that the Prison Break place?

More importantly, it was in The Blues Brothers.

 

[rudds]

It is way too early to say Xbox games have poor performance just based on resolution when you haven't even seen either console running in real life. Games will most likely look and run better on PS4, but no one really knows to what extent yet. This damning of the Xbox when we don't have anywhere close to a full picture of real world results is ridiculous.

This post is absolutely all that needs to be said about the issue. We prefer to evaluate products for ourselves. If that's not good enough for you, sorry.

 

[Patryn]

Changing topics, I'm actually a little surprised that they're doing an UPF today. This weekend looks like one long marathon UPF, in that it sounds like it's going to be a bunch of random games.

Well, maybe they won't be drinking during the marathon. Probably the last thing they need is liquor making them tired.

 

[funkystudent]

Lets change topics to talking about if Brad plans to play TLOU during his part of the live stream!

 

[StuBurns]

This post is absolutely all that needs to be said about the issue. We prefer to evaluate products for ourselves. If that's not good enough for you, sorry.

Why do you talk about exclusive content on games before they release?

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Changing topics, I'm actually a little surprised that they're doing an UPF today. This weekend looks like one long marathon UPF, in that it sounds like it's going to be a bunch of random games.

Well, maybe they won't be drinking during the marathon. Probably the last thing they need is liquor making them tired.

I can't wait for Brad's hangover stream

 

[derFeef]

Lets change topics to talking about if Brad plans to play TLOU during his part of the live stream!

Dark Souls or bust.

 

[demidar]

Brad should just stream him posting on Gaf as a stretch goal.

 

[faridmon]

Why do you talk about exclusive content on games before they release?

Why talk about games before they release?

Why Talk about games?

Why talk?

My point is, software is a known quantity and they had a lot of preview showings which gives them an idea about it. Heck, they are excited for exclusives just because most of them are sequels to games they already love.

 

[No_Style]

This post is absolutely all that needs to be said about the issue. We prefer to evaluate products for ourselves. If that's not good enough for you, sorry.

Should have said that in the first place then. Would have been more accepting than the dismissive attitude.

Brad should just stream him posting on Gaf as a stretch goal.

I'd love to see him just scroll by all the compliments and then reply to the hate!

 

[StuBurns]

Why talk about games before they release?

Why Talk about games?

Why talk?

My point is, software is a known quantity and they had a lot of preview showings which gives them an idea about it. Heck, they are excited for exclusives just because most of them are sequels to games they already love.

I honestly don't know what you're saying, so I can't really respond, however I'll try and clarify what I meant, maybe that helps.

My point was, he's mistaken, they don't just talk about games when they have them to evaluate, they often talk about getting a game on one system over another because of exclusive content.

That is using confirmed news about the game pre-release to judge it. I don't see how this isn't a similar situation.

 

[Dany]

I think playing through story heavy games would be great for the 24 love stream for bad. I know I couldn't do endless death matches of any MP GAME.

 

[Oxx]

Breaking: Podcast Ombudsman outlaws discussion of unreleased games.

 

[faridmon]

I honestly don't know what you're saying, so I can't really respond, however I'll try and clarify what I meant, maybe that helps.

My point was, he's mistaken, they don't just talk about games when they have them to evaluate, they often talk about getting a game on one system over another because of exclusive content.

That is using confirmed news about the game pre-release to judge it. I don't see how this isn't a similar situation.

First of all; my bad, I misunderstood your point.

Second: They really don't give a shit about exclusive contents. I don't know where you heard this, but they usually shit on stuff like AC games getting exclusive missions on PS3 and PS4,

 

[No_Style]

I think playing through story heavy games would be great for the 24 love stream for bad. I know I couldn't do endless death matches of any MP GAME.

What about a few games of Tetris on marathon mode? If he had someone there, I'd watch a few matches of Tetris Battle Gaiden as well!

 

[Curufinwe]

It's a shame CBSi would never pay to send Vinny and Drew to Stockholm for this recent BF4 event. That would have been a goldmine.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I thought Brad was going to play Mario Galaxy

 

[StuBurns]

First of all; my bad, I misunderstood your point.

Second: They really don't give a shit about exclusive contents. I don't know where you heard this, but they usually shit on stuff like AC games getting exclusive missions on PS3 and PS4,

If they like it or not, they talk about it frequently. Vinny and Brad have certainly talked about AC4 having exclusive stuff on the PlayStations.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Why do you talk about exclusive content on games before they release?

Jesus Christ, guy, get over it. You're not entitled to their opinion or insight on anything. If you don't like their coverage or find it unsatisfying then move on to another site. Shit is getting annoying.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

This post is absolutely all that needs to be said about the issue. We prefer to evaluate products for ourselves. If that's not good enough for you, sorry.

You've seen and played both in the flesh so to speak, is it so hard to have an opinion instead of this passive aggressive bullshit you keep spouting?

As a "hardware" guy surely you can see that the gap in specs and the fact that one has to run 720p just to match the performance of 1080p brethren is a problem?

 

[StuBurns]

Jesus Christ, guy, get over it. You're not entilted to their opinion or insight on anything. If you don't like their coverage or find it unsatisfying then move on to another site. Shit is getting annoying.

I don't have to be entitled to be interested.

Use your ignore list if you don't like my posts, that is what it's for.

 

[drizzle]

Wait, how tall is Batman again?

 

[demidar]

I don't have to be entitled to be interested.

Use your ignore list if you don't like my posts, that is what it's for.

Unfortunately ignore doesn't block quotes so it's mostly useless :/