That's why I don't play many multiplayer games as well (besides Dota 2 since it gives me what I want at a distilled level). At least if I play a single-player game no one else can mess with my experience and I can play however I want without impacting other people.
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Giant Bomb #9 | More Dan Meets The Eye
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That's why I don't play many multiplayer games as well (besides Dota 2 since it gives me what I want at a distilled level). At least if I play a single-player game no one else can mess with my experience and I can play however I want without impacting other people.
Haunted
Member
Oh man, a GB inhouse would've been great, with brad, Dan, drew and vinny in a stack. 
I haven't seen the segment yet, but it's good to play the game for yourself a couple times to clear up the misconception that it's easier than a traditional RTS because you control fewer units.
Which hero did he play?
I haven't seen the segment yet, but it's good to play the game for yourself a couple times to clear up the misconception that it's easier than a traditional RTS because you control fewer units.
Which hero did he play?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If you just think every instance of gb trolling is bad then I can respect that, but saying stuff like "it doesn't matter in shooters but it does in a MOBA" is horribly patronising to the people who take shooters seriously and I can't respect that.
funkystudent
Member
Watching UPF.
Who the heck pulled out the Dietrich name during the weird quiz game? Thats a deeeep cut.
Who the heck pulled out the Dietrich name during the weird quiz game? Thats a deeeep cut.
I think that was Brad. (whats the reference?)
I would actually like you to provide examples.
To folks taking shooters seriously? Like the aforementioned ARMA example where Giant Bomb crashed an RP server?
Edit:
Chewbacca.
Earthshaker from what I can recall.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Of GB trolling?
Uncharted 2 multiplayer quick look and the arma 3 quick look are pretty much classic moments at this.
Though there isn't much else.
OverBlood 3
Banned
God some people have no sense of humour and worst of all those explaining how a joke 'should' be done or Dan should've just done it with GB folk. It was a perfect send up of an ignorant player thinking they know how everything works when they don't. Brad got it and he loves DOTA. Also Dan was making fun of people who take it so seriously and he's proved his point.
Also those group invitations were amazing considering what was happening at the time, it was made 10x funnier when he tried to accept them mid game.
It was hilarious the whole thing.
Also those group invitations were amazing considering what was happening at the time, it was made 10x funnier when he tried to accept them mid game.
It was hilarious the whole thing.
Also it was a one time thing. It's not like he's making a series of dota trolling videos.
No I meant trolling in shooters being as impactful as in MOBAs.
To clarify my stance, I would've been perfectly fine with Dan's antics if it were a Giantbomb in-house.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I think I read somewhere that FK is in the
I wonder if d4 will ever see a pc release. I thought I wouldn't want more of the same swery weirdness, but this looks pretty fun.
Swery said not to expect it on other platforms.
OverBlood 3
Banned
It wouldn't have been as funny. Anyway it's done now. It happened and it'll never happen again.
Jimmyfenix
Member
I think it was hilarious what Dan did.
And thank goodness for that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
It's hard to quantify that sort of thing. You might as well ask me to quantify how people enjoy or value things.
Forrest Kaysen maybe-spoiler?:
he is in the game, that's him in the gif above! Only a recurring name in swery games though, nothing to do with the DP character at all I don't think.
Boo-urns.
That is not at all what people are saying.
The thing people need to realize is that if you die in a shooter, most of which are 8 on 8/16 on 16 or more than that, it doesn't really matter. I can think of two ways of intentionally griefing in your standard shooter (obviously there will be variations of this but in general):
1. Killing your own teammates. This will probably get you kicked from the game eventually. I don't play a lot of shooters these days but it seems reasonable that that would be the case (it was in Counter-Strike when I played that).
2. Repeatedly dying to the enemy on purpose.
Neither of these give the enemy a huge advantage. If you have a good player on your team, or your team is just better overall, you'll probably still win even with one man down who's doing no good.
In DOTA, this is not at all the case. Every time you die to the enemy, you give them lots of experience and gold which makes them stronger compared to your own team. If you keep doing this, the enemy will get stronger and stronger until you just won't stand a chance in fights because the enemy simply has more gold and is higher level than your team.
Notice how this contrasts the shooters; dying in them gives the enemy no advantage other than being a man down. As I've said already, one or a few skilled players on a team can easily weigh up for this deficit by getting a few more kills every for death on average. In DOTA, this is not possible because the experience and gold you get from kills far outweighs what you can get from just killing creeps and neutrals. Of course, considering the case where a team of 4 pro players going up against an 5 average-skilled opponents, and a feeder in the pro team, the pro players could probably make up for the difference because they're simply that much better. But when it's a 5 on 5 with all players being roughly equally skilled? No chance.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You do realise that there are shooters where dying is a pretty significant penalty? Like battlefield's ticket system or TDM where kills are part of the points system.
Also in games like conterstrike where having no respawn means that death is very detrimental if one team outnumbers the other.
edit: I guess what I don't get is how do you quantify that? If you have any person not playing optimally in these team games anyway it doesn't matter, most of the time you're going to lose. All things being equal, having one man not performing optimally means that you're going to lose anyway, no matter the game.
Just seems like bias based on the game you prefer.
Also in games like conterstrike where having no respawn means that death is very detrimental if one team outnumbers the other.
edit: I guess what I don't get is how do you quantify that? If you have any person not playing optimally in these team games anyway it doesn't matter, most of the time you're going to lose. All things being equal, having one man not performing optimally means that you're going to lose anyway, no matter the game.
Just seems like bias based on the game you prefer.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, here's another thought. In the second Destiny QL, Jeff avoided doing a strike because he didn't want to be a jerk and quit during the middle of it. I think there is some self awareness on their part anyway.
This is a whole other discussion between the differences of a public match and a ranked one seeing how people may only play one or both, but generally yes, I think if you're one to get pissy about casual matches then you should be playing in ranked.
As oppose to Dota, FPS games are usually played to a score of some sort. Feeding the enemy kills pushes them towards that score much more rapidly and I think that's a pretty big disadvantage and much more than just being down a man.
Yes, in Dota giving kills is also means giving the enemy team more exp and gold, but it doesn't mean handing them objectives, at least not directly. If someone like a PL, Naga Siren, or Anti Mage could get farmed enough, they could still blow open the enemy team regardless of it being a 4v5 (or 4v6 if you want to call it that). Of course, having a feeder on your team makes it harder, but it doesn't make it impossible as you have suggested.
I've been in games where we had a disconnect near the start and legitimate feeders thoughout and have been able to come back and win despite the disadvantage and I am in no way a pro player or play with pros, so your argument that players can't overcome that type of deficit over other players of similar skills levels (which Dota's matchmaking supposedly does) just isn't true.
But hell, I play with people I know and on comms so maybe that's why we can win games like that as a 4-stack. I just feel like you're really undermining the shooter competitive scene and I don't even like shooters.
The thing with Battlefield's ticket system is that Battlefield is a huge game with a lot of players at the same time, where one person dying repeatedly isn't making that large of an impact on the game as a whole. In DOTA it's 5 on 5, so the impact is much greater. In a game like Counter-strike where the most common game mode is 5 on 5, what you're saying is indeed true, it does make a big difference if one of your players refuses to play properly. I can't really comment on TDM because I don't know what that is.
Furthermore, you're arguing a strawhat here; most MOBA players in this thread are saying the impact of dying is much greater in a MOBA than in a shooter, which is the case for most shooters. I didn't see anyone claiming dying over and over in a shooter has no impact at all (if they did, they're obviously wrong), which was your original point.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
My biggest problem with Dan's trolling is that Brad didn't put him in a mode for beginners. The gamemode played (random draft) is a little more advanced and is usually played by people who have a better idea what they're doing and a are looking for a fun match. Meanwhile there are dedicated beginner modes like limited pick where you can leave matches without penalty and in general are a better environment for absolute newcomers, because you can be clueless without wasting people's time.
Anyway, what Dan did was not very cool, but I'm not too put off by it.
Anyway, what Dan did was not very cool, but I'm not too put off by it.
Fair enough, I was being a bit unfair when I said your team has no chance of winning with a feeder. It's possible, but quite rare in my own experience; I think I've only pulled it off once or twice. But I still stand by my core point that a feeder on a MOBA team makes a far greater negative impact on the game than in a shooter.
I quantify it by time wasted.
1) Counter-strike rounds are 5 minutes long, not like 30+ minute Dota matches.
2) If you think your team sucks ass or has trolls, there is nothing stopping you from leaving to go to another server.
3) You can't leave a Dota match without risking punishment (low-priority queue), potentially making future games even worse. Idling in base is the better option, but that's still 30+ minutes of time wasted. You cannot even rely on the enemy team granting you a quick defeat because they might just camp your fountain and drag out the fight.
I have outkilled/outhealed entire teams before in FPSes, you can't do that in Dota because of cumulative power gains.
Edit: I'm not like "Fuck Dan Rykert, Ima install a script that blocks all his contributions to Giant Bomb", I'm just explaining why one particular course of action rubbed me the wrong way. I'm still gonna watch Demo Derby and Metal Gear Scanlon.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Trust me, I've been in battlefield pub matches where the deciding factor is not how many good players you have but how many less idiots there are on your team. People who aren't doing any objectives and just generally feeding (ha!) the opposite team kills and draining your tickets away.
Fair enough on the strawman, but I guess I'm just saying that you can't really define it.
Yeah this is sort of what gets me, the people on this team (as in most multiplayer matches I guess) were trying to play decently and win the game, while Dan was like "LOL who cares let's run wherever, not listen to Brad or take hints from what my teammates are doing."
Yeah I'd be way cooler if at the start they were just like "LOL WHAT A FUCKIN' NOOB UNINSTALL BRO GO BACK TO LEAGUE HAHAHAHA" but these guys were kinda just like "Uh... Please don't do that"
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Didn't he joined an unranked match? Does it still count towards your leaving %?
Also I'm not saying people who didn't like this are all anti-Dan or whatever, just that it seems weird that this instance is called out unlike other instances. You're free to dislike what he does, I'm certainly not going to say that he can't be abrasive.
The restraint showed by his teammates was quite remarkable considering the community standards. They were also good enough to hold their own in the other lanes (they would've got first blood if Dan hadn't died), and they even bought a courier (multiple couriers even). Those poor dudes, they just wanted a good match.
Didn't he joined an unranked match? Does it still count towards your leaving %?
Also I'm not saying people who didn't like this are all anti-Dan or whatever, just that it seems weird that this instance is called out unlike other instances. You're free to dislike what he does, I'm certainly not going to say that he can't be abrasive.
Unranked still has its own (hidden) MMR, and abandons count as well. Though Valve's matchmaking algorithm is sophisticated enough to single individual contributions and adjust MMR accordingly as opposed to a blunt "You win, you get +15 MMR, you lose, you get -15 MMR".
Ranked is for the hardcore/crazy people, even more than people crazy enough to even play Dota 2. MMR is visible in ranked so people get really angry.
I totally agree here. I didn't even know that limited heroes let you leave without punishment (shows how much I've ever played that mode) but there's still the argument to be made that Dan completely caused 4 other players a loss though.
Agreed, rare, but also a possibility (of course, I would never want to have to try against a 4v5 though).
I guess my point is, as a person who doesn't play FPSs in any competitive sense (and I'm not sure on your background on this), I'm not one to judge whether having a feeder or a man down is hugely impactful or not and I just feel like people were talking down on that particular scene and may not have the actual experience to be able to say so, but then again you may have in fact been competitive at one point and I could just be making an ass out of myself.
Yes it does, but apparently not if you play Limited Heroes.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Upon the millions of hours that people waste in DOTA2, Dan has wasted ~30min of the life of eight dudes around the world, not to mention his own time.
"giantbomb's at it again" indeed.
"giantbomb's at it again" indeed.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Engaging in recreation is not wasting time.
People laughing are always contagious, but when Jeff's squeaky laugh comes in, you know it's on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siz5yyMCx1w (lol)
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Huh, that's weird, I would assume that if you play unranked it would be to mess around or play a game without any penalties or commitment. That's how most other multiplayer games work.
So yeah, does suck for those dudes that they can't leave the match then.
I believe playing against bots might also work that way, but I'm not sure.
They were allowed to leave after Dan abandoned without penalty, but they still received the lost if that's what they chose to do.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Well DOTA's development was weird in that they added a Ranked matchmaking allowing you to see your ELO/MMR after a few years of normal, unranked matchmaking. This meant that unranked matchmaking had the abandon penalty since the beginning, and there was really no real point in removing it, since you could probably just play a BOT match or a casual custom game or something.
bigwinnerx
Member
Dan's troll was glorious. The best was Danny mugging at Brad the whole time, too.
And Brad was fine, he snuck in points when needed.
If there are MOBA people on here whining, that's a good reason never to play it.
And Brad was fine, he snuck in points when needed.
If there are MOBA people on here whining, that's a good reason never to play it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Huh, so what's the actual difference between ranked and unranked?
I also think removing punishment from unraked would be detrimental to match quality, because then at the first sign of losing (perceived correctly or not), people would just quit out of a game, leaving plenty of matches unfinished.
They have separate ratings. Your unranked rating, which essentially only is used to match you up with equally skilled opponents, is not visible anywhere, not even to yourself. Unranked has a few more modes to play too, which in their nature is less serious. Ranked only has the serious game modes.
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