Cindi Mayweather
Member
Read the lion signs at each quarters gate.
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Giant Bomb are bringing back the Endurance Run... and it's Shenmue.
- Thread starter MassiveNights
- Start date
Read the lion signs at each quarters gate.
Aren't there emulation problems with the Xbox version on a 360?
That's understandable, it's a big, dense map.
Though, I've just done the opening day of Shenmue II for my own playthrough and there's ample signage at least.
I've been checking out NPC behavior and answers in II for getting around, and they're miles better than in the original. The game also gives so much better direction in the opening hours, it's unreal.
Shenmue to Shenmue II feels like the change from Assassin's Creed to Assassin's Creed II, they don't fuck with the core principles of the game but the tweak the right things for a better experience.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Only emulation issue is the sound glitching. Still better than og Xbox because the bloom lighting glitches out and Shenmue with bloom lighting is blasphemy. So the glitch is actually an upgrade.
Really? I remember reading QTE presses occasionally wouldn't be read properly because of the goofy emulation, but I'm not completely sure if that's true or not.
But yeah, the bloom in the Xbox version is fucking ugly. The Dreamcast version is perfection, visually. Best looking game on the console by a long shot. Looks better than a lot of PC and arcade titles of the era, personally.
The bloom lighting is bad, but the last I remember Ryo also doesn't cast a shadow on 360, and yes, the music just stops sometimes. Definitely not a great way to play it. Dreamcast through VGA is easily the best. I have a soft spot for the English VO in Shenmue II (Ryo is a lot better than in the first game, NPCs are atrocious once again), but there's no doubt in my mind the game is more immersive with the JP audio of the Dreamcast version.
broncobuster
Banned
I played through Shenmue 2 on 360 last year and other than the odd sound glitch, all you lose out on are video filters...which isn't losing anything of value.
This Endurance Run inspired me to play through the first game for the first time. I always thought Shenmue 1 was major boring shit back in 2000, and after finishing it, my opinion hasn't changed. Shenmue 2 is where the magic happens.
That said, I was kind of shocked at Vinny's reaction to the game. Unless he had some very deeply ingrained preconceptions about the game, I can't really understand his reaction. It's an adventure game. You pick up everything that's not nailed down, and talk to the same people over and over until something different happens. Occasionally there is a QTE. I hate saying this, especially since it's already in the can, but they're playing it wrong. If they were playing "live" like with Persona we could give them hot Pro Tips to help them. Also, I had a good laugh at his comment that the game doesn't respect his time. This coming from Mr. Dark Souls. Well if that's what he's after then I'm sure he'll love the final few encounters.
That said, I was kind of shocked at Vinny's reaction to the game. Unless he had some very deeply ingrained preconceptions about the game, I can't really understand his reaction. It's an adventure game. You pick up everything that's not nailed down, and talk to the same people over and over until something different happens. Occasionally there is a QTE. I hate saying this, especially since it's already in the can, but they're playing it wrong. If they were playing "live" like with Persona we could give them hot Pro Tips to help them. Also, I had a good laugh at his comment that the game doesn't respect his time. This coming from Mr. Dark Souls. Well if that's what he's after then I'm sure he'll love the final few encounters.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
While I would never ever want to play this game myself, I slowly get the appeal of it. It has a charm to it. But it's not the type of game I'd want to play myself.
I don't understand why people keep repeating this. Shenmue is not an adventure game. That's not even meant as a criticism, I just don't understand why people keep calling it an adventure game when it clearly isn't.
I don't understand why people keep repeating this. Shenmue is not an adventure game. That's not even meant as a criticism, I just don't understand why people keep calling it an adventure game when it clearly isn't.
Basileus777
Member
But it pretty much is an adventure game.
Yeah, it's an alternative RPG overall from top to bottom.
Yu Suzuki was inspired by Macintosh II RPGs, areas are internally designated as "towns", storylines are "quests", so on and so forth. The climax of Disk 3 in Shenmue II could almost literally be categorised as a "dungeon".
EDIT: I can see where the adventure game view comes from, as it's kind of a crossbreed but not necessarily through design. Only Yu knows for sure.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Adventure games to me are games were you collect items, rub them against everything and everyone you see and hopefully cause some reaction. I guess that kinda started to happen a bit in the last episode so maybe if this keeps up I would agree? But so far it feels really more like a Life-Sim like Animal Crossing with some RPG-ish elements.
Its an adventure, fighting game RPG, proto open world game. There's pretty much nothing like it* and it's why I still love it. Shenmue 2 certainly improves the balance of all these elements though.
*Aside from Yakuza but that's missing the adventure game elements entirely and it has a less interesting fighting system in my book.
*Aside from Yakuza but that's missing the adventure game elements entirely and it has a less interesting fighting system in my book.
Basileus777
Member
Adventure games are a far broader genre than that. Things like Danganronpa and Life is Strange are adventure games. Shenmue has the life sim elements, but there is a central narrative that goes beyond what you expect from a life sim.
Isn't running around Dobuita showing everyone the same piece of paper and asking if they can read Chinese until you find the right guy just that? Just without a mouse cursor (which is probably Vinny's biggest hangup here). Sure there are other genres mixed in there, but the majority of the game is non-combat, looking for clues, asking questions. To me that's an adventure game.
Further to my last post, and this is kind of a tangent, but I haaaaate it when people say Yakuza is a better Shenmue.
As someone who loves both series, Yakuza does not scratch the itches Shenmue does, and never will. Shenmue will occasionally verge into Yakuza territory, however.
The similarities are superficial, even if Yakuza and Nagoshi do owe Shenmue and Yu Suzuki a debt for being the pioneer of multi-genre semi-open world games coming out of Japan.
EDIT: While I'm talking about mildly unrelated stuff, the really high tier Shenmue III Kickstarter backers had their dinner with Yu Suzuki in Japan the other night. There aren't any accounts of the trip just yet, but here's an account of the day trip other backers had with Yu Suzuki in February in Monaco.
As someone who loves both series, Yakuza does not scratch the itches Shenmue does, and never will. Shenmue will occasionally verge into Yakuza territory, however.
The similarities are superficial, even if Yakuza and Nagoshi do owe Shenmue and Yu Suzuki a debt for being the pioneer of multi-genre semi-open world games coming out of Japan.
EDIT: While I'm talking about mildly unrelated stuff, the really high tier Shenmue III Kickstarter backers had their dinner with Yu Suzuki in Japan the other night. There aren't any accounts of the trip just yet, but here's an account of the day trip other backers had with Yu Suzuki in February in Monaco.
I completely agree. Those two are completely tonally and mechanically different games. Other than the third person perspective and SEGA arcade games, they have nothing in common.
Forget it Fantastapotamus, its Shenmuetown.
Yakuza doesn't really use a fighting game engine though, does it?
Arguably neither does Shenmue, even if its like a really close cousin of Virtua Fighter. I don't think that's why they're compared anyway, otherwise Sleeping Dogs wouldn't get lumped in either. It's like "are you a game set in Japan/China with melee combat and an Asian male protagonist? THEN YOU'RE A SHENMUE".
_StreetSonic_
Member
I hope next episode they discover they can pick up some things that they are looking at. It's a bit weird that they haven't. I know there is no prompt for it, but I think they would have pressed random buttons while looking at something just because.
Shenmue 2 on 360 is how I play the game. There are never that many problems for me and I'm a Shenmue dub lover, so I hope they play it this way.
Shenmue 2 on 360 is how I play the game. There are never that many problems for me and I'm a Shenmue dub lover, so I hope they play it this way.
How is the dub in 2? I've only ever played the EU Dreamcast version which has Japanese audio.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's equally bad as this game, no improvement.
At least they're consistent. Now that this ER has gotten me in the Shenmue mood, I was thinking of maybe picking up the Xbox version and playing it on 360.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Caught up on episodes and the run has definitely gotten much better. Don't get how Vinny didn't try to read the letter. I mean he knows you can interact with objects. He pulled the light string and picture frames but wouldn't read the letter or take any of the other items.
mere_immortal
Member
This seems like the right place to ask rather than starting a new thread. If I was to start playing the Yakuza series is it worth going from the beginning? Seems like it would be worth it for the story.
To be honest, at the moment it seems to be mostly "Go talk to this person and trigger something" with QTEs and occasional fights. Probably more unique in 1999...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=depfVO4R2OA
It took Vinny EXACTLY 100 tries to get Fire Ball right.
This is pure gold.
It took Vinny EXACTLY 100 tries to get Fire Ball right.
This is pure gold.
openrob
Member
THIS. THIS IS SOOOO FRUSTRATING hahaha
Vampire On Titus
Member
If it was just that they didn't know certain things that'd be bad enough but the true frustration is that they're constantly learning and un-leaning things throughout the run.
It's especially bad watching episodes consecutively. But it is at least watchable now and I found out about the GI LP's because of this ED which I adored.
It's especially bad watching episodes consecutively. But it is at least watchable now and I found out about the GI LP's because of this ED which I adored.
I mean, yeah, but you can distill any game to the basics like that, though. I think the Shenmue experience lives and dies by how engaged you get in the world/characters/story and the pacing, which is why so many drop the game on Disk 1.
Shenmue II understood this better by attempts to get the player excited right out of the gate, and back-loaded the really slow character/world building stuff for the very end, by which point you should be invested enough in what's going on to care about it. There are still peaks and troughs in pacing, but the slow parts make sense in the context of the story, and made the exciting parts more of a thrill.
Either way, it doesn't really detract that it's possible to wrench enjoyment out of the original Shenmue, even for newcomers. While I'm sure the game won't click for many in this thread, but playing it for yourself is an easier way to get yourself engrossed in what's going on than watching this.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Saying Yakuza is Shenmue done right is frustrating because Yakuza does literally nothing Shenmue did right. Shenmue is a plot focused epic featuring multiple locations through different games. Yakuza is an episodic series with no reason for existing anymore beyond "let's find another reason to get Kiryu involved". Shenmue is about world building, exploration of minute every day details. Yakuza is about buying new weapons and abilities to see Kiryu kick someone's ass and see a neat animation, with the occasional side quest. Shenmue requires patience. Yakuza is all about endless action. Almost every fight in both Shenmue games happens for a reason and is indicated by the story. Yakuza has RANDOM BATTLES. I love both (well, honestly Yakuza stopped being great after 2, though I haven't played Kenzan) but they couldn't be further apart in terms of gameplay style and general goals.
People who say Yakuza is Shenmue done right say so because of their own inherent expectations of what Shenmue should be like rather than what it is. They see a story where a random Chinese dude kills your father and you go on a tale of revenge. So they deduce that clearly this game SHOULD be about kicking as much Chinese in black suit as possible, like any other game with martial arts and revenge in it. So they see this game Yakuza where the main character just kicks ass all the time, doesn't give a shit, see all the side quests and stuff and think "this is Shenmue done right" when the goals of these games is completely different.
Shenmue is about every day things. It revels in the mundane; it is anti-game. Yakuza is about uncommon things - noticeably, putting you in the hands of a gangster. It's not about every day things, it's about wish fulfillment and making the player feel like a God. There's nothing mundane about Yakuza and it should remain that way.
Funnily, Yakuza 3 starts out with a slow, personal intro with Kiryu and his orphanage and all the kids he takes cares of and their stories. I preferred playing Former Yakuza Now Surrogate Dad more than the rest of the game. Go online and see people bitching about how slow and awful the intro is.
The takeaway: gamers can't take any type of game that isn't about making them feel like badasses. You can see this with the recent reaction to Dragon Quest VII intro in the remake. "Slow and building up world bad. When can I kick ass?"
People who say Yakuza is Shenmue done right say so because of their own inherent expectations of what Shenmue should be like rather than what it is. They see a story where a random Chinese dude kills your father and you go on a tale of revenge. So they deduce that clearly this game SHOULD be about kicking as much Chinese in black suit as possible, like any other game with martial arts and revenge in it. So they see this game Yakuza where the main character just kicks ass all the time, doesn't give a shit, see all the side quests and stuff and think "this is Shenmue done right" when the goals of these games is completely different.
Shenmue is about every day things. It revels in the mundane; it is anti-game. Yakuza is about uncommon things - noticeably, putting you in the hands of a gangster. It's not about every day things, it's about wish fulfillment and making the player feel like a God. There's nothing mundane about Yakuza and it should remain that way.
Funnily, Yakuza 3 starts out with a slow, personal intro with Kiryu and his orphanage and all the kids he takes cares of and their stories. I preferred playing Former Yakuza Now Surrogate Dad more than the rest of the game. Go online and see people bitching about how slow and awful the intro is.
The takeaway: gamers can't take any type of game that isn't about making them feel like badasses. You can see this with the recent reaction to Dragon Quest VII intro in the remake. "Slow and building up world bad. When can I kick ass?"
Yes.
We're back on the plot threads started in the opening and they're progressing much faster than Disk 1's content. The game won't gate their progress again until one instance at the very end of this disk, and one at the start of the next. Right now, the pace of the gameplay is primarily dictated by some form of player ability; like all other games.
If you were expecting Shenmue to turn into GTA, well...
Disk 3 is action (and forklift) heavy, if that's more your jam.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Disc 2 is the bees knees. When I play 1 I always speed run disc1 so I can get to awesome parts.
For real, even though I like Yakuza a lot, one of my few problems with the series is that it's kind of on a neverending quest to up itself in the action stakes. At some point they're going to try something slower and get shit for it, because of people expecting balls to the wall action sequences and set pieces from the outset.
New episode is live.
EDIT:
EDIT 2: The irony continues, as they
EDIT 3: JESUS CHRIST THEY
EDIT 4:
EDIT 5: End of the episode was a little dumb.
They don't find the key until the end.
EDIT:
They open the drawer with the key in it 16/17 minutes in, don't actually find the key until 54 minutes into the episode. First time this series has had me going "PRESS THE A BUTTON GOD FUCKING DAMNIT".
EDIT 2: The irony continues, as they
miss the key they need to advance but find the hidden cockroach.
EDIT 3: JESUS CHRIST THEY
FIND THE MYSTERIOUS SCROLL TOO. Hilarious moment but holy shit.
EDIT 4:
Vinny: "We can't read this letter". *proceeds to turn on lamp without the A prompt*
EDIT 5: End of the episode was a little dumb.
It's unfair to blame the game when you literally just didn't press the A button despite knowing for hours and hours and hours that A = interact regardless of prompt.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Nothing happened in this episode and yet it's one of the best so far, even though there was a disturbing lack of Tom. I laughed out loud at
. I would have turned off the console.
the discovery of the scroll and the "I don't read chinese" line
Oh, they are not playing the game wrong, I do agree.
It's just that they are bad (or at least... Vinny is?).
Funny and entertaining for sure... but bad.
No. You press A once. Vinny did not press A.But you have to use certain level of zoom to interact with the box?
But you have to use certain level of zoom to interact with the box?
No you don't. You have to press A to examine something. The only way you can not examine something when looking at it is by pressing B.
Entertaining episode but Vinny is really ignorant to basic mechanics. Some of the game is obtuse but pressing A to examine is not a hard concept.
Sorry, I didn't knew that. Must've been really excruciating for you when
they found the box for first time
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