• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Giant Bomb are bringing back the Endurance Run... and it's Shenmue.

S

_StreetSonic_

Member
I do think at first they were playing it wrong. After they figured out the controls things got a lot better. It would be nice if they had Ryo go do and see stuff that he hasn't yet while they talk about w/e, but I understand that can be boring.

Check out this video of Ryo stalking girls(Skip to 2:16 for the good stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_AcDRyXu8
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Admiral Woofington said:
I actually didn't know this, but it makes complete sense that they aren't going to post videos as they come out and you don't want to rush an editing job. Even if this is fairly low key on editing.

I'm glad they finished the game though.
Click to expand...

They recorded the whole thing while Dan was in NYC for a month.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Admiral Woofington said:
I guess I gotta ask for clarification now

Does 'recorded the whole thing' mean they recorded as much as they could get/were willing to do or that they finished the whole game
Click to expand...

Nobody knows, but I am pretty confident they finished the game.

The way they do ERs typically is they sit down for a few hours a week and bang out episodes, and since they only had Dan there for a limited time I am sure they put in a ton of hours.
 
K

KillerAJD

Member
Posted this in the GB thread, but wanted to show it here too. I knew as soon as they met Tom I wanted to see something like this done, but amazingly, nobody had tried before I got around to it!
W0kOwCl.png
Click to expand...
 
C

Count of Monte Sawed-Off

un33dab@dpu$$y
_StreetSonic_ said:
I do think at first they were playing it wrong. After they figured out the controls things got a lot better. It would be nice if they had Ryo go do and see stuff that he hasn't yet while they talk about w/e, but I understand that can be boring.

Check out this video of Ryo stalking girls(Skip to 2:16 for the good stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_AcDRyXu8
Click to expand...

Jesus...

Edit: from the sound of it, they definitely finished the game. We know they got to the forklift part which is pretty close to the end. They're actually about done with disc 2, and disc 3 is fairly linear and only covers about 7 days.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
_StreetSonic_ said:
I do think at first they were playing it wrong. After they figured out the controls things got a lot better. It would be nice if they had Ryo go do and see stuff that he hasn't yet while they talk about w/e, but I understand that can be boring.

Check out this video of Ryo stalking girls(Skip to 2:16 for the good stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_AcDRyXu8
Click to expand...

Um...

Please bad mouth Shenmue all you want now please
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
_StreetSonic_ said:
I do think at first they were playing it wrong. After they figured out the controls things got a lot better. It would be nice if they had Ryo go do and see stuff that he hasn't yet while they talk about w/e, but I understand that can be boring.

Check out this video of Ryo stalking girls(Skip to 2:16 for the good stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_AcDRyXu8
Click to expand...

*heavy breathing*

*girl looks down*

"Do you know where I can find some sailors?"
 
K

Kiske

Member
Admiral Woofington said:
Not to mention where the fuck are the incentives.

The game just tells you shit like "oh hey maybe I can practice" which makes it seem like it's simply to get a chance to literally practice the combos/moves ala fighting game. Considering the amount of time they've had to fight so far, it seems fruitless.

Then there's the "well go do something else in the meantime". Like what? The game has given little to no context clues. When you learn new information for the plot all you do is go around asking people that specific question for the plot. So it's hard to focus on any possible sidequest. Then there's the time mechanic. The game just isn't well built around it.

When you have to wait for the whole day to end to do something the next day, and your options in the meantime are to recycle the same amount of dialogue, go play the few arcade games, gamble, or do other smaller things that no way in hell are fun enough to waste a whole day on is the players fault they aren't 'playing the game right'?

How can you immerse yourself in the city and characters when it's recycled dialogue UNTIL you progress the story, which is a major issue. Then not to mention all we've seen is that when it's a matter of asking a question it seems all of a sudden you have a chance of one or two people providing the answer, a couple guiding you towards them, and absolutely everyone else telling you "uuuuuuuuuuh i don't know". When he asks the guy from China to translate chinese text and he tells you "i'm second generation chinese" it was the game's poor excuse to simply force you to go to the specific chinese person.

You can appreciate what the game did back then, it really seemed to have been revolutionary. But for today's standards for people who have never played it? It's very very rough. If Sega makes the HD remake they need to add the wait mechanic.

It's a bit ridiculous folks are trying to argue that because you aren't doing mini-games you aren't playing right. What the ever living fuck.
Click to expand...

I do agree there are tedious moments in the game, especially when it comes to linear progression. That said, we could also talk about what the game does well given it's gameplay design choice. After Ryo finds out the mirror and the mysterious scroll, Vinny and the guys searched for people able to read chinese. That's fair, even if the discovery didn't generate any entry in the notebook. They went to the Russiya and Antique shops and both owners were able to give good bit of information about the mirror. Despite that, at the end of the day, the guys were disappointed because nobody was able to read the scroll. I think if you are fully immersed in the story and ask yourself where to learn more about the mirror, those are the two places you would logically chose. If I remember well, there is at least another NPC who can give you hints about the mirror.

Another example is when Ryo asks for the Asia Travel Co. reputation. Almost every NPC has something bad to say about it and the Burger guy tells Ryo that another NPC had a bad experience with the Travel Agency. Vinny spoke to this NPC and he gained new details about the bad experience. This is also what Shenmue is about and if not always, there is a certain consistency in Yokozuka world and citizen. After days of wandering in the town, the player should have the feeling he knows back stories of most of the NPCs.

One last observation about "side quests" and things to do beside the main story. I don't deny that the game doesn't give you a lot of incentives to find out nice side stuffs, but if you look at the GB crew play notebook, it looks like they filled 50% of the blanks, if not even less. Well, all those blanks are alternative ways to go from point A to point B, sidequests, bit of information and/or optional cutscenes. To some extend, that means that every single play of Shenmue will be different, which is a very good feature imo.

I don't want to defend the game at all costs. It has flaws, some really annoying, but it has also qualities and I definitey think it's a game you'll enjoy a lot more by playing it versus watching it. As long as the main story gets your attention at least.
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
They're going to have another day of waiting if they don't
beat Chai
in the next episode, which they almost certainly won't. I doubt many did their first time through.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly, there's no actual waiting at this part. If you
get your ass beat
you start the next day and can waltz right up
to Asia Travel
at opening time to trigger the next part.

ANYWAY

New episode is up. Let's get sweaty.
 
E

Erevador

Member
Kiske said:
I do agree there are tedious moments in the game, especially when it comes to linear progression. That said, we could also talk about what the game does well given it's gameplay design choice. After Ryo finds out the mirror and the mysterious scroll, Vinny and the guys searched for people able to read chinese. That's fair, even if the discovery didn't generate any entry in the notebook. They went to the Russiya and Antique shops and both owners were able to give good bit of information about the mirror. Despite that, at the end of the day, the guys were disappointed because nobody was able to read the scroll. I think if you are fully immersed in the story and ask yourself where to learn more about the mirror, those are the two places you would logically chose. If I remember well, there is at least another NPC who can give you hints about the mirror.

Another example is when Ryo asks for the Asia Travel Co. reputation. Almost every NPC has something bad to say about it and the Burger guy tells Ryo that another NPC had a bad experience with the Travel Agency. Vinny spoke to this NPC and he gained new details about the bad experience. This is also what Shenmue is about and if not always, there is a certain consistency in Yokozuka world and citizen. After days of wandering in the town, the player should have the feeling he knows back stories of most of the NPCs.

One last observation about "side quests" and things to do beside the main story. I don't deny that the game doesn't give you a lot of incentives to find out nice side stuffs, but if you look at the GB crew play notebook, it looks like they filled 50% of the blanks, if not even less. Well, all those blanks are alternative ways to go from point A to point B, sidequests, bit of information and/or optional cutscenes. To some extend, that means that every single play of Shenmue will be different, which is a very good feature imo.

I don't want to defend the game at all costs. It has flaws, some really annoying, but it has also qualities and I definitey think it's a game you'll enjoy a lot more by playing it versus watching it. As long as the main story gets your attention at least.
Click to expand...
Excellent post.

At its best Shenmue often gets you to use "real world logic" in a way that most games don't.
 
G

GrantDaNasty

Member
Erevador said:
Excellent post.

At its best Shenmue often gets you to use "real world logic" in a way that most games don't.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's certainly an interesting idea. The problem is, it's an extremely "niche" idea.

Video Games are supposed to be entertainment. I know there are people who derive fun from simulator games, but keep in mind this game was the most expensive fucking game for its time, and for what?

An adventure game that takes pride in seeming realistic, thus having moments where you straight up CANNOT progress because the time isn't right.
 
Z

Zafir

Member
GrantDaNasty said:
I mean, it's certainly an interesting idea. The problem is, it's an extremely "niche" idea.

Video Games are supposed to be entertainment. I know there are people who derive fun from simulator games, but keep in mind this game was the most expensive fucking game for its time, and for what?

An adventure game that takes pride in seeming realistic, thus having moments where you straight up CANNOT progress because the time isn't right.
Click to expand...

Well, I think you're being a bit unfair. Yes, today that doesn't hold up.

Back when it came out 16 years ago it was pretty popular, and not niche. The only reason it would be considered niche would be because the Dreamcast didn't sell enough to make it sell more. There wasn't many open world games then, and as one of the first of it's kind, yes it's going to make mistakes.

They realised they made a mistake and fixed it in the sequel. That's how genres and games grow.
 
F

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
_StreetSonic_ said:
I do think at first they were playing it wrong. After they figured out the controls things got a lot better. It would be nice if they had Ryo go do and see stuff that he hasn't yet while they talk about w/e, but I understand that can be boring.

Check out this video of Ryo stalking girls(Skip to 2:16 for the good stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_AcDRyXu8
Click to expand...

Cool, now I am ons ome kind of watchlist
 
O

OverBlood 3

Banned
The length of these episodes really drag this endurance run down. It's like I'm living shenmue, you wait a whole day and they play it for 30 minutes and you wait another day...
 
K

kiguel182

Member
GrantDaNasty said:
He still gets away, but you find out where the Arcade owner is (he's tied up on the ground, and you free him) and he gives you a hint saying "Jimmy is one of them".
Click to expand...

Okay, cool. So slightly different outcomes then. In the end you would always have that chase scene and end the level.
 
G

GrantDaNasty

Member
Zafir said:
Well, I think you're being a bit unfair. Yes, today that doesn't hold up.

Back when it came out 16 years ago it was pretty popular, and not niche. The only reason it would be considered niche would be because the Dreamcast didn't sell enough to make it sell more. There wasn't many open world games then, and as one of the first of it's kind, yes it's going to make mistakes.

They realised they made a mistake and fixed it in the sequel. That's how genres and games grow.
Click to expand...

Look, I don't doubt it was a cool thing on a technical level, having a game with semi-realistic looking character models and rendered real-world locales, combined with an actual day/night cycle and weather systems.

But a lot of the decisions seems arbitrary and somewhat obnoxious once you get further away from the time period when it released. There are plenty of games that were good if not groundbreaking when they released, but over time people realized it was short-lived fanfare - I believe Shenmue to be one of those games.

Also, it was the 4th best-selling Dreamcast game, but I'm gonna go ahead and say popularity does not denote quality, there are plenty of examples of games or other media that have sold gangbusters but that doesn't mean they are all-time classics or even have anything much to contribute to their mediums at large.

Again, I might sound like I'm being harsh on Shenmue, but that is purely because *I* am not the audience for this game, nor would I have ever been the audience for it.
 
D

danm999

Member
More I watch of this Endurance Run, the more difficult for me it is to reconcile a motivated revenge quest story with an open world full of distractions.

Especially since the game does seem to be putting emphasis on breaking up the main narrative and interacting with side characters as you go.

Then again, that's hardly something Shenmue alone is guilty of. Even modern games are still doing this
Fallout 4.
 
S

strafer

member
eugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueue
 
W

webrunner

Member
so if i understand correctly every "story" thing done between ryo exclaiming "i need to go to hong kong" and now is completely superfluous - it's basically two run around/fake outs that fail to move the narrative forward whatsoever

i mean being screwed over twice is a thing that can happen in real life but it's just a pointless time waste in a crafted narrative.

And there's so many wierd questions like.. who was the girl, why was the ticket even real, why did they want to meet at the arcade, and why did Ryo go along with any of this
 
S

Strax

Member
webrunner said:
so if i understand correctly every "story" thing done between ryo exclaiming "i need to go to hong kong" and now is completely superfluous - it's basically two run around/fake outs that fail to move the narrative forward whatsoever

i mean being screwed over twice is a thing that can happen in real life but it's just a pointless time waste in a crafted narrative.

And there's so many wierd questions like.. who was the girl, why was the ticket even real, why did they want to meet at the arcade, and why did Ryo go along with any of this
Click to expand...

Yep
 
B

belinho

Member
danm999 said:
More I watch of this Endurance Run, the more difficult for me it is to reconcile a motivated revenge quest story with an open world full of distractions.

Especially since the game does seem to be putting emphasis on breaking up the main narrative and interacting with side characters as you go.

Then again, that's hardly something Shenmue alone is guilty of. Even modern games are still doing this
Fallout 4.
Click to expand...


Well, i think one of the main points that Shenmue tries to make (and Shenmue II makes even more apparent), is that you shouldn't pursue revenge, so i guess in that regard the game is consistent.


so if i understand correctly every "story" thing done between ryo exclaiming "i need to go to hong kong" and now is completely superfluous - it's basically two run around/fake outs that fail to move the narrative forward whatsoever

i mean being screwed over twice is a thing that can happen in real life but it's just a pointless time waste in a crafted narrative.

And there's so many wierd questions like.. who was the girl, why was the ticket even real, why did they want to meet at the arcade, and why did Ryo go along with any of this
Click to expand...

I guess some filler had to be included in Shenmue I, because originally I and II were supposed to be only one game. I don't know exactly what was added after Yu Suzuki decided to split the games, but knowing this, it becomes more clear why the game has pacing issues here and there (and this kind of premises that realy go nowhere).
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
strafer said:
eugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueueeugughguguheheheueue
Click to expand...

END OF DISC 2
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
danm999 said:
More I watch of this Endurance Run, the more difficult for me it is to reconcile a motivated revenge quest story with an open world full of distractions.

Especially since the game does seem to be putting emphasis on breaking up the main narrative and interacting with side characters as you go.

Then again, that's hardly something Shenmue alone is guilty of. Even modern games are still doing this
Fallout 4.
Click to expand...
I must avenge my dead spouse and my robbed baby

But first let me make my own harem, build a base, run around the world in cool armor, meet quirky characters and maybe eventually I'll avenge my spouse. Maybe tomorrow. 2 days from now.... Next week
 
I

Isambard

Neo Member
belinho said:
Well, i think one of the main points that Shenmue tries to make (and Shenmue II makes even more apparent), is that you shouldn't pursue revenge, so i guess in that regard the game is consistent.
Click to expand...
The only way it would be consistent is if the game actually gave you the option to abandon Ryo's revenge quest, maybe find fulfillment as a professional forklift operator, or something to that effect.
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
danm999 said:
More I watch of this Endurance Run, the more difficult for me it is to reconcile a motivated revenge quest story with an open world full of distractions.
Click to expand...
I believe the writer for Shenmue/Shenmue II described that stuff in a Shenmue III Kickstarter video as "adding the human side" to the story, and I can't disagree with that, personally.

I take a lot of pleasure in the quieter moments of Shenmue anyway, but I think taking away those everyday distractions would probably cheapen the overall experience rather than refine it. I do think forcing players to engage with that stuff is probably not the best way to go, and the developers knew this too seeing how they added the time skip for story events in II.
 
T

tchocky

Member
What I don't understand is Lan Di wants the second mirror and after killing the father has now gone to Hong Kong. Why did Ryo spend time to find the mirror when Lan Di obviously had no idea it was hidden in the Dojo. So now Ryos plan is to carry it in his pocket and take it along to his fight to the death with the martial arts expert where Ryo will surely die since he spends all his days collecting Sonic capsules and playing arcade games.
 
M

MassiveNights

Banned
tchocky said:
What I don't understand is Lan Di wants the second mirror and after killing the father has now gone to Hong Kong. Why did Ryo spend time to find the mirror when Lan Di obviously had no idea it was hidden in the Dojo. So now Ryos plan is to carry it in his pocket and take it along to his fight to the death with the martial arts expert where Ryo will surely die since he spends all his days collecting Sonic capsules and playing arcade games.
Click to expand...

What if I told you it was a personality test?
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
tchocky said:
What I don't understand is Lan Di wants the second mirror and after killing the father has now gone to Hong Kong. Why did Ryo spend time to find the mirror when Lan Di obviously had no idea it was hidden in the Dojo. So now Ryos plan is to carry it in his pocket and take it along to his fight to the death with the martial arts expert where Ryo will surely die since he spends all his days collecting Sonic capsules and playing arcade games.
Click to expand...
The way I see it:

Lan Di may not actually know about a second mirror. Chai finds out this information and intends to sweat Ryo for knowledge about Yuanda Zhu and steal the Phoenix Mirror so that he can curry favour with Lan Di and the Chi You Men.

Ryo found the Phoenix Mirror on Master Chen's instructions, although failed to give him any information about what to do with it. This is basically a plot contrivance to keep the mirror in Ryo's possession.

Ryo keeps the mirror with him to a.) not make the Dojo a target (Lan Di is pragmatically evil and doesn't seem to kill for fun, so Fuku-san and Ine-san are safer without the mirror at the house), and b.) because Yuanda Zhu can explain more about the mirror and so it makes sense to bring it to him (which is what most of the second game is about).
 
B

Bowlie

Banned
Didn't the antique shop's owner know about the phoenix mirror? What with phoenix and dragon being guardians, and people praying for them. No way Lan Di wouldn't know about that common knowledge.
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
Bowlie said:
Didn't the antique shop's owner know about the phoenix mirror? What with phoenix and dragon being guardians, and people praying for them. No way Lan Di wouldn't know about that common knowledge.
Click to expand...
I believe the owner knew about the Chinese legend, but nothing specifically about the mirror other than it was made of rare stone from Guilin (which is some hardcore foreshadowing for the end of II).

It's also possible that if Lan Di did know about a second mirror, he believed Yuanda Zhu to have it. Lan Di blames both Zhu and Iwao Hazuki for his father's death, and might think they split ownership of the mirrors that belonged to his father.

EDIT: Actually, that would make sense.
Lan Di returns to the Dojo around April for the bad ending, so it's possible he went to Hong Kong to capture/torture Zhu for information, before returning to Japan after learning Iwao took both mirrors. In II he doesn't seem concerned with Ryo at all and primarily is after Zhu.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Voidburger has joined Giant Bomb as a Video Producer
News 2
51
9K
Sausy1987 replied
  • Locked
Giant Bomb |OTXXX| Fondle it
400 401 402 403 404
20K
1M
OdysseusVA replied
  • Locked
Giant Bomb |OT29| Uhhhhh I have a child
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
OdysseusVA replied
Giant Bomb #24 | In the beginning...
395 396 397 398 399
20K
1M
imBask replied
  • Locked
Giant Bomb |OT28| Welcome to the Penis Farm
397 398 399 400 401
20K
2M
Dany replied
Top Bottom